The Obesity Epidemic

[puccah8808]

You should feel good about yourself then. I take the hard road by pulling all nighters without the use of adderall or other drugs. Many drug addicts take the hard road by stopping cold turkey rather than using a clinic. Still others take the hard road by doing this, or doing that, or doing anything selfless.

That doesn't mean it's for everyone. Pat yourself on the back and move on

All you've given is scientific facts and this article and that article. Live it then tell your story..

 

[mr.cooper69]

All you've given is scientific facts and this article and that article. Live it then tell your story..

This is the advanced discussion forum. I did not reference a single article. Rather, I used well-established medical knowledge that I have learned from actual research and work in the field. We're talking the stories of thousands of people, maybe tens of thousands. Not just you.

Live it? I worked in an obesity clinic and have seen more in-depth cases than I care to discuss here.

All you've provided is the fact that you've lost weight and the opinions of various overweight friends. Congratulations on the weight loss (I mean it), now let's get to the advanced discusison

 

[Rarchib]

You should feel good about yourself then. I take the hard road by pulling all nighters without the use of adderall or other drugs. Many drug addicts take the hard road by stopping cold turkey rather than using a clinic. Still others take the hard road by doing this, or doing that, or doing anything selfless.

That doesn't mean it's for everyone. Pat yourself on the back and move on

Not trying to go off topic on this thread but what are your opinions on the article recently published this month about how Adderall/ADHD enhancers do not have a significant effect on academic scores? Just curious because being a college student, I've experimented with such drugs when tasked with lengthy papers and I've always felt a great benefit.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Not trying to go off topic on this thread but what are your opinions on the article recently published this month about how Adderall/ADHD enhancers do not have a significant effect on academic scores? Just curious because being a college student, I've experimented with such drugs when tasked with lengthy papers and I've always felt a great benefit.

They aren't cognitive enhancers in healthy individuals, and may even cause early cognitive decline down the road (with chronic, unprescribed consumption). They do keep you awake though lol

 

[RecompMan]

Leptin resistance in my understanding only contributes to obesity when it's diet induced obesity.... even if the person is predisposed.

Ill dig up some studies but things like that give your child a predisposition due to the amount of insulin exposed to in the womb

 

[RecompMan]

That's part of the equation, but CNS resistance is the other part. It's a two-hit

Adrenalin resistance at the adrenal glands due to consistently elevated leptin?

 

[CountryLiftin]

My short input. We should allow people to make their own choices but as part of the health care field we need to educate and push better standards on everyone, particularly young people and influence change. And we need to be effective with it. Whether or not obesity can be cured or not can be argued but it's prevention is possible. We need to be looking at the future whole dealing with the present as best as is possible. Obesity is a complex issue with many causes, and can't be covered or prevented with one blanket technique, but I do believe a large chuck of overweight people don't have to be or shouldn't be overweight. We need to focus on getting those people of the next generation healthy and fit and then crack down on the tougher ones.

 

[mr.cooper69]

My short input. We should allow people to make their own choices but as part of the health care field we need to educate and push better standards on everyone, particularly young people and influence change. And we need to be effective with it. Whether or not obesity can be cured or not can be argued but it's prevention is possible. We need to be looking at the future whole dealing with the present as best as is possible. Obesity is a complex issue with many causes, and can't be covered or prevented with one blanket technique, but I do believe a large chuck of overweight people don't have to be or shouldn't be overweight. We need to focus on getting those people of the next generation healthy and fit and then crack down on the tougher ones.

Yup. Prevention is the cure

 

[puccah8808]

Do you guys get food stamps in america?

Yes, it gets abused

 

[hardwork25]

Ill dig up some studies but things like that give your child a predisposition due to the amount of insulin exposed to in the womb

So is it a mechanism that predisposes people to weight gain or is it a result of it?

 

[Jiigzz]

Btw, I also asked a few of my overweight friends if they think obese is a disease and all of them said, "no,it's a choice". Nobody chooses to be fat but nobody wants to workout, eat right, and sacrifice.

Your friends opinions on the subject do not change the classification of obesity being a disease; again, there is no such thing as an unbiased choice. Everyone is influenced by a multitude of factors that inevitably impact their decisions; some of which are out of their control (ie. the feeling of being CONSTANTLY hungry). Sure, a person can try and fight this feeling but more often than not, they can't.

This specific forum is about the underlying contributors to why things happen and if we can target those areas to reverse the issue.

In the case of obesity it is better to be proactive than reactive, however there are so many contributing factors that no one approach will cover every cause.

In order to change the current lifestyles of many people, ALOT has to change. Prevention will cost billions, if not trillions. It would have to cover City planning (redesigning the layouts of cities to promote increased active transport/ physical activity), educating children in schools, educating parents in healthier food options, promoting workplace physical activity and so on and so forth.

 

[Philosophy]

The past few comments sound oh so familiar, why yes Plato covered such ideals in 'The Republic' a few millennia ago. Carry on then.

 

[JudoJosh]

All you've given is scientific facts and this article and that article. Live it then tell your story..

If you arent going to make meaningful contributions to the conversation then please leave the thread.

 

[Rodja]

Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.

 

[CountryLiftin]

Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.

I agree. The only predisposition in 99% of people is ignorance and laziness.

 

[RecompMan]

So is it a mechanism that predisposes people to weight gain or is it a result of it?

It's from high insulin exposed to I the womb leading to insulin resistance and over weight or underweight birth

The leptin part I read about in the book "mastering leptin " by Byron Richards I think was his name

 

[JudoJosh]

Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.

Do you object to the recent classification of obesity by the AMA?

The inner optimist in me is actually excited about it. With obesity classified as a disease it could result on an emphasis being placed on nutritional counseling, food availability, exercise prescription, etc moving to the forefront. If obesity is a disease than it is affecting more than a third of the population! I would like to think this will make its way into medical schools and the doctors of the future will be looking more into nutrition and exercise interventions. The hospital I work at recently bought a gym and opened up a physician referred exercise program. We actually have doctors now writing scripts for patients to exercise and insurance is covering personal trainer sessions. If this trend spreads and becomes popular it will be amazing IMO. We have a focus now on bringing produce into inner cities now. I drive through Camden, NJ or Philadelphia, PA which are both big cities that have poverty and limited nutrition options and more and more frequently I am seeing neighborhood gardens, food co-ops, farmers markets, etc all popping up. I see this classification as a way to bring these issues to the forefront and am not really too taken aback by it.

Sadly, I realize what this classification will actually do is open the doors even more on gastric bypass and weight loss drugs but hey it doesn't have to right? We will see

 

[mcc23]

I don't think obesity should classified as a disease. Aside from thyroid issues and pre-natal insulin resistance, being overweight is mostly because of choice IMO. Granted there are situations in which low income families can not afford healthy foods, or gym memberships. But in reality, those are not necessities to obtain a reasonable level of health..It's not the french fries that are the issue.. Its the super-sized fries with extra sodium and the 64oz Big Gulp soda that is the issue. Along with the sedentary lifestyle..Fast food and crap food in general is subsidized by our government, and promoted to the nth degree on the television. Plus its convenient. I'd imagine that by classifying obesity as a disease, that it opens windows for doctors to write MORE prescriptions for drugs. But that's only treating the effect, and not the root cause. In most scenarios, what it boils down to is discipline with the fork. My own mom is rather over-weight, and she gets prescribed these thyroid medications to (I'm assuming here) boost the thyroxine (T3) levels without any documented thyroid issues that I am aware of...I think this could be playing with fire. She doesn't eat healthy. That's the problem. Not a thyroid problem. With no change in her eating habits, yet still the daily dosing of her synthroid, she hasn't lost a pound. Yet when I had put her in a diet low on carbohydrates and replaced all soda and sugary drinks with water, and added in lots of fibrous vegetables, she lost 30 lbs in 2 months.. Granted its partly water, but still. I think there should be commercials that are the obesity equivalent to the old DARE program advertisements.. Anyone remember this? Using fear tactics and falsified data to get people to not use drugs.. Except in this case, the truth should be promoted.. They should put out commercials saying things like Type II diabetes is self-induced. You've done it to yourself, and if you continue down this path.....We all know that's not likely to happen but it would certainly be effective IMO..

I agree with JudoJosh in that the prescription written should be for a free gym membership and trainer, all to be covered by insurance. As long as we provide this crutch for over-weight people to stand on, nothing is going to change..

 

[Spaniard]

I would like to think this will make its way into medical schools and the doctors of the future will be looking more into nutrition and exercise interventions. The hospital I work at recently bought a gym and opened up a physician referred exercise program. We actually have doctors now writing scripts for patients to exercise and insurance is covering personal trainer sessions. If this trend spreads and becomes popular it will be amazing IMO.

This excited me immensely. What you described is the EXACT route that I want to take after obtaining my license.

Are there any specific doctors there that are writing about it? Any journals that are recording results? Any direction would be greatly appreciated. If you don't mind will you email me what hospital you're working at?

Sadly, I realize what this classification will actually do is open the doors even more on gastric bypass and weight loss drugs but hey it doesn't have to right? We will see

And that's the unfortunate thing. It's the same negative that is associated with increased convenience through technology or any other means. If something is easier obtained through a pill or surgery then why put in the hard work?

 

[JudoJosh]

This excited me immensely. What you described is the EXACT route that I want to take after obtaining my license.

Are there any specific doctors there that are writing about it? Any journals that are recording results? Any direction would be greatly appreciated. If you don't mind will you email me what hospital you're working at?



And that's the unfortunate thing. It's the same negative that is associated with increased convenience through technology or any other means. If something is easier obtained through a pill or surgery then why put in the hard work?

The director of the program is actually a friend of my sister inlaw. I will see if I can get her contact info and forward it to you.

 

[CountryLiftin]

Josh you are right, that is a very big thing. Exercise physiologists have been doing that kind of thing for people with general health but on a much smaller scale. If more insurance companies get on board, then those who can't otherwise afford "treatment" can get it. I still believe that people could do it on their own, but if a doctor tells you to, and refers you, someone who is obese is much more likely to go do it. We have several insurance companys at my PT clinic/gym that will pay for gym memberships as long as the individuals use it X amount of times a month or whatever. It would be great to see something like the silversneakers program, but instead of geared at the elderly, it would be geared towards the general population or at least those with basic health risks such as obesity, which would provide help for these people through a structured program as long as they participated, for free. I think if people knew they had an option through their insurance to help them or even if they had an incentive of lower health insurance weights when participating in a program etc, they would be more likely to do it. I guess some people do just lack the motivation to go make a change in their life style, and this would be great for the person on the fence. I do hope these types of trends continue.

I think it's important to recognize the difference between a lifestyle disease and a genetic or bacteria/virus caused disease. Lifestyle diseases are the leading cause of death in the US today as I'm sure you guys know. So yes, being obese is a disease, but not in the sense that something like cancer, polio, etc are, at least in the most general sense. Of course they have similarities, but I don't think arguing the classification of the problem should be the biggest issue, treatment and prevention should be.

 

[T-Bone]

There is more and more proof that food is addictive. Just as addictive as some opiate drugs,

 

[CountryLiftin]

Damn right cheeze its are awesome, the main reason I PL not BB....

But seriously, food can illicit a pleasure response in several ways, so of course it can be addictive.

 

[mcc23]

I read some article last week about how McDonald's puts ammonia hydroxide or something like that in their burgers..No idea what its for but that just sounds terrible. Probably what makes it so that the burgers can look exactly the same 3 years after its made..

 

[mcc23]

Damn right cheeze its are awesome, the main reason I PL not BB....

But seriously, food can illicit a pleasure response in several ways, so of course it can be addictive.

For a lot of people, food is comfort..

 

[Spaniard]

The director of the program is actually a friend of my sister inlaw. I will see if I can get her contact info and forward it to you.

You are so hot to me right now

 

[drinkyboy]

Pants=off

 

[Rodja]

Do you object to the recent classification of obesity by the AMA?

The inner optimist in me is actually excited about it. With obesity classified as a disease it could result on an emphasis being placed on nutritional counseling, food availability, exercise prescription, etc moving to the forefront. If obesity is a disease than it is affecting more than a third of the population! I would like to think this will make its way into medical schools and the doctors of the future will be looking more into nutrition and exercise interventions. The hospital I work at recently bought a gym and opened up a physician referred exercise program. We actually have doctors now writing scripts for patients to exercise and insurance is covering personal trainer sessions. If this trend spreads and becomes popular it will be amazing IMO. We have a focus now on bringing produce into inner cities now. I drive through Camden, NJ or Philadelphia, PA which are both big cities that have poverty and limited nutrition options and more and more frequently I am seeing neighborhood gardens, food co-ops, farmers markets, etc all popping up. I see this classification as a way to bring these issues to the forefront and am not really too taken aback by it.

Sadly, I realize what this classification will actually do is open the doors even more on gastric bypass and weight loss drugs but hey it doesn't have to right? We will see

I ****ing hate it. The last thing people these days need is another excuse for something happening to them. My number one pet peeve is a lack of accountability. This will open the door for more to say that it's not their fault when obesity is a lifestyle choice. It can be difficult to unlearn habits, but that is not an excuse for being 30+% BF.

 

[Touey]

I ****ing hate it. The last thing people these days need is another excuse for something happening to them. My number one pet peeve is a lack of accountability. This will open the door for more to say that it's not their fault when obesity is a lifestyle choice. It can be difficult to unlearn habits, but that is not an excuse for being 30+% BF.

lol Rodja only learning some techniques for passion down the proper channel one day may find difference in making..Passion, nothing wrong with that, using it for making a spark for others to thinking on the way you do is a fine dodgy line.

 

[AdonisBelt]

It's important to note the social institutions and overall rhetoric of our society when it comes addressing obesity. Think of how many people here, including myself, are likely labeled by the general community as lacking in intelligence or character. Ironically, it's usually not acceptable to say similar things as blatantly about those who disregard their health.

It's an irrationally accepted cultural habit if ours. The supported "you are beautiful no matter what." Kind of mentality that only sounds nice to those who don't want to think about it too much- and that's the problem.

It's too blunt or aggressive to openly tell someone that they should do something about there health, and because of this politically correct sort of idea, it will always be ok to counter the common aggression this community seems to have with obesity with "but I'm comfortable with myself and that's all that matters... Blah blah blah"

We need to take the responsibility upon ourselves to not be such insecure puss pads about how we deal with the topic. If our society made.a more conscious effort, or any effort at all, to begin to be open about how ugly the combination of sloth and gluttony really can be- ESPECIALLY in terms of ones health, I guarantee there would be a change.

But instead nobody ever speaks up when they see a parent give their overweight child candy, we never ask someone we know why they are doing that to themselves and we never say that it doesn't matter if your "fine with it" because that's bull****, and deep down, everyone knows it.

With honesty and realism comes advocacy and knowledge. If we continue to live in la la land where it's ok to be a fat **** but if someone is elite within fitness they are CLEARLY VAIN or INSECURE or a DBAG we will never see change.


My 2 cents.

Edit note: regarding the bad foods argument.. It's just a byproduct of our skewed perception on the limits of what is ok in regards to detrimental health. If we remove the supportive discourse in regards to the obese and unhealthy, we eliminate demand, and the propensity of supplying horrible quality foods goes away.

 

[AdonisBelt]

If something is easier obtained through a pill or surgery then why put in the hard work?

Putting in hard work would have to mean someone admitting to accountability. It's much easier to say "I have a condition" and continue eating raw cookie dough until you have diabetes that's covered under health insurance than admit you have a problem that is nobody else's fault.

 

[johnnybeegood]

now i'm craving some cookie dough ice cream. d'oh!!

 

[3clipseGT]

That's part of the equation, but CNS resistance is the other part. It's a two-hit

Can you explain what you mean by CNS resistance?

 

[Jiigzz]

Every now and then, there's too much paper and not enough practical. Is everyone predisposed to being an athlete, no. However, there are very few people that are going to be predisposed to being truly obese and definitely not ~30+% of the domestic population. As with nearly everything, it boils down to accountability and desire. Much like losing a significant amount of weight, adding doesn't happen overnight and I find it very, very difficult to have any sympathy for someone that reaches a certain level of BF because it was their choice.

I came in here expecting a hard line against obesity being classified as a disease and found almost the opposite with "reasoning" as to how fault may not lie within the individual. I look at it much like making weight for a competition in which you have to drop 10+% of your relative weight. You chose to get that far above and it's going to take that much more effort to get to where you need to be. However, with enough sacrifice, effort, and determination, you'll make it.

Not the intention I was making, nor was it Coops (if I read correctly); Getting obese is generally the fault of the individual, that so much they must understand but staying obese and losing weight once obese is influenced by a plethora of factors (which we were discussing). Lets head back 40 odd years ago and look at Obese statistics then; they knew much less than what we do now yet now we are fatter than ever. Are you saying that people 40+ years ago knew how to combat obesity in a more effective manner? Are you saying that we lack motivation now whereas 40+ years ago we were fully motivated?

Unfortunately this is not the case. People are getting fatter because of the bigger picture problems and are staying fatter because they do not understand the physiological consequence of getting fat in the first place.

I understand where you are coming from, but 30%+ of the population in NZ and the USA are deemed obese; can you honestly just say that it is up to them to fix that?

 

[Spaniard]

Are you saying that people 40+ years ago knew how to combat obesity in a more effective manner? Are you saying that we lack motivation now whereas 40+ years ago we were fully motivated?

Unfortunately this is not the case. People are getting fatter because of the bigger picture problems and are staying fatter because they do not understand the physiological consequence of getting fat in the first place.

I understand where you are coming from, but 30%+ of the population in NZ and the USA are deemed obese; can you honestly just say that it is up to them to fix that?

The problem today is not lack of knowing the problems with obesity. How can someone not know that they are unhealthy? That thought is hard for me to grasp.

You've touched on the problem perfectly in previous posts Jiigzz and unfortunately in general it all boils down to laziness. If you look at the cultural shifts from the industrial revolution jobs have went from those of a physical nature to the exact opposite. A large percentage of the population is much more sedentary in their professional lives. The problem with this is that they don't try to accommodate for the lack of physical exercise. ****, quite a few people don't want to even walk anywhere anymore.

The problem at hand is the mindsets of today's people so how do we shift the cultural trend of convenience, technology, a pill for everything and encourage healthy and fit living? It has to be handled on all fronts. We're talking shifting the paradigm of large populations. In my mind it can be done through education like others have said but it has to be a coordinated effort.

-Education of the youth to impact future generations

-Returning physical education in elementary schools. Getting kids active again

-Overcoming lack of exercise due to convenience factors such as transportation. We'll never get people to stop driving to work. I live an hour away from work lol wouldn't happen BUT I walk everywhere else, the grocery store, morning walks/runs to wake up etc

-Helping to support companies that are bringing out healthier food choices. Showing an increase in demand. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FARMERS MARKETS.

-Healthcare professionals being proactive about helping their overweight patients turn it around by like Josh's hospital prescribing exercise instead of a pill offering healthy eating measures etc. Not only giving this as a route of treatment but also helping to instill upon them a sense of pride in their healthy living.

-Politics; yes, this is controversial and I don't know the best measures to go about it but without consequences people aren't likely to change.

There needs to be a movement with people like us at the forefront brainstorming and then taking action. Essentially that's what this thread is about. We're healthcare professionals, personal trainers, teachers, parents, family members, friends and so on. I don't know of any politicians on here, well at least any that would admit it lol but the basic underlying message here is movements have to start somewhere.

 

[AdonisBelt]

-Education of the youth to impact future generations-Returning physical education in elementary schools. Getting kids active again-Overcoming lack of exercise due to convenience factors such as transportation. We'll never get people to stop driving to work. I live an hour away from work lol wouldn't happen BUT I walk everywhere else, the grocery store, morning walks/runs to wake up etc-Helping to support companies that are bringing out healthier food choices. Showing an increase in demand. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FARMERS MARKETS.-Healthcare professionals being proactive about helping their overweight patients turn it around by like Josh's hospital prescribing exercise instead of a pill offering healthy eating measures etc. Not only giving this as a route of treatment but also helping to instill upon them a sense of pride in their healthy living.-Politics; yes, this is controversial and I don't know the best measures to go about it but without consequences people aren't likely to change. There needs to be a movement with people like us at the forefront brainstorming and then taking action. Essentially that's what this thread is about

Lol this is what I was saying in my posts.. but it doesn't quite boil down to laziness, it boils down to general discourse of american society that allows laziness in regards to health...Edit: ... which is likely perpetuated by lack of political interference in controlling corporatist efforts in maximizing profit and creating crap products that we all love and buy. Its the rampaging monster of broken capitalism that allows companies to afford lobbying and prevent and legislation akin to the actions of monsanto, perdue, tyson, cargill, adm, and more.

 

[Jiigzz]

The problem today is not lack of knowing the problems with obesity. How can someone not know that they are unhealthy? That thought is hard for me to grasp.

You've touched on the problem perfectly in previous posts Jiigzz and unfortunately in general it all boils down to laziness. If you look at the cultural shifts from the industrial revolution jobs have went from those of a physical nature to the exact opposite. A large percentage of the population is much more sedentary in their professional lives. The problem with this is that they don't try to accommodate for the lack of physical exercise. ****, quite a few people don't want to even walk anywhere anymore.

The problem at hand is the mindsets of today's people so how do we shift the cultural trend of convenience, technology, a pill for everything and encourage healthy and fit living? It has to be handled on all fronts. We're talking shifting the paradigm of large populations. In my mind it can be done through education like others have said but it has to be a coordinated effort.

-Education of the youth to impact future generations

-Returning physical education in elementary schools. Getting kids active again

-Overcoming lack of exercise due to convenience factors such as transportation. We'll never get people to stop driving to work. I live an hour away from work lol wouldn't happen BUT I walk everywhere else, the grocery store, morning walks/runs to wake up etc

-Helping to support companies that are bringing out healthier food choices. Showing an increase in demand. SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FARMERS MARKETS.

-Healthcare professionals being proactive about helping their overweight patients turn it around by like Josh's hospital prescribing exercise instead of a pill offering healthy eating measures etc. Not only giving this as a route of treatment but also helping to instill upon them a sense of pride in their healthy living.

-Politics; yes, this is controversial and I don't know the best measures to go about it but without consequences people aren't likely to change.

There needs to be a movement with people like us at the forefront brainstorming and then taking action. Essentially that's what this thread is about. We're healthcare professionals, personal trainers, teachers, parents, family members, friends and so on. I don't know of any politicians on here, well at least any that would admit it lol but the basic underlying message here is movements have to start somewhere.

Exactly. Laziness is a huge issue given that jobs have shifted from active to sedentary for the most part. When a person spends all day at a desk, commutes to and from work in traffic for 30 mins +, the last thing on the typical persons mind is exercise. Sitting all day is exhausting. It is a conscious effort to prevent this and become active.
That is why i'm all for physical activity interventions in the workplace; make people move more because they are incapable of moving and motivating themselves themselves. My point is not to place the onus solely on them, but rather incorporate the workplace and other social dimensions to tackle the problem; after-all their lack of motivation and subsequent obesity is costing ME money (Healthcare is government funded). I would rather some of my money go into improving the workplace culture than be spent on some lazy person with no desire to workout.

We know that obesity costs the government billions as a result of the cost of their healthcare; once the issues cause heart disease, diabetes, disability and illness (to the point of not be able to work); this is when their laziness ends up costing me money. My taxes pay for their laziness and to fix their problems (we have a system called ACC which pays for people who cant work due to ilness, disability etc. which is tax payer funded).

These reasons are why I would rather not just place the onus on them and allow them to live as they are, as it ends up costing me money that could better be spent elsewhere.

I know the US functions differently; but i'm speaking from the perspective I know.

 

[JudoJosh]

How about we shift the topic a tad

Do we even know the cause of obesity? Do we subscribe to the gluttony and sloth hypothesis?

 

[JudoJosh]

In regards to the sloth hypothesis

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0040503#abstract0

Measurements of TEE among Hadza hunter-gatherers challenge the view that Western lifestyles result in abnormally low energy expenditure, and that decreased energy expenditure is a primary cause of obesity in developed countries.

This seems to fall in line with my understanding of how much energy expenditure actually plays into weight loss - see: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/209517-how-much-impact.html

So is a lack of physical activity the cause for obesity?

 

[rob112]

I will tell you from talking to the wife who did day care work for years, a lot of kids who are "whiners" get fed excessively by their parents. I don't know how much that affects later years, but interesting idea none the less.

 

[Jiigzz]

In regards to the sloth hypothesis

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0040503#abstract0

This seems to fall in line with my understanding of how much energy expenditure actually plays into weight loss - see: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/209517-how-much-impact.html

So is a lack of physical activity the cause for obesity?

Exercise itself is only about ~5% of total daily energy expenditure (Exercise being planned workouts); NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis- everything from fidgeting, standing and moving etc.) contributes much more depending on level of activity. So weight lifting and cardio will play a very minor role independent of increasing NEAT.

 

[mr.cooper69]

I don't think anyone opposes the use of preventative medicine to prevent obesity. What we're discussing is what to do with the massive amount of the population that is obese

 

[johnnybeegood]

slaughter them and eat their delicious fatty flesh?

 

[T-Bone]

There is no one size fits all solution. There are just too many variables to just claim that everyone that is obese is just too lazy to exercise. Sure there may be some people like that but not everyone.

 

[toddmuelheim]

There is no one size fits all solution. There are just too many variables to just claim that everyone that is obese is just too lazy to exercise. Sure there may be some people like that but not everyone.

Precisely this. I'm guessing everyone has that friend/knows someone who can literally eat anything they want and not put on a pound. For every person in that situation we generally know someone who busts their ass constantly with mediocre results. Those predetermined genetic factors coupled with the lack of control we all have during our initial upbringing and it is definitely more complicated than "fat people are lazy and make bad decisions."

 

[AdonisBelt]

Exercise itself is only about ~5% of total daily energy expenditure (Exercise being planned workouts); NEAT (non-exercise activity thermogenesis- everything from fidgeting, standing and moving etc.) contributes much more depending on level of activity. So weight lifting and cardio will play a very minor role independent of increasing NEAT.

Uhm, average BMR of males, lets be nice and say its 3000 kcals. Your telling me exercise only burns 150 calories? Perhaps I'm not understanding, but in my opinion, exercise like resistance training burns about 400 calories, my intake is 3000 CUTTING and my BMR is usually around 32-3300 so that's like 12% of my BMRs energy...

So in the conditions in the most favor of what your saying, exercise is about 15% of ones NEAT... Which to me, makes me think being active has a lot to do with it- let alone the metabolic effects likes protein synthesis, triggering hormone synthesis etc. increasing ones BMR by 15% a day is more effective then stacking ECA with Clen lol (10% + 3%)

But like I said, if I misunderstood pls explain (srs)

 

[Jiigzz]

Uhm, average BMR of males, lets be nice and say its 3000 kcals. Your telling me exercise only burns 150 calories? Perhaps I'm not understanding, but in my opinion, exercise like resistance training burns about 400 calories, my intake is 3000 CUTTING and my BMR is usually around 32-3300 so that's like 12% of my BMRs energy...

So in the conditions in the most favor of what your saying, exercise is about 15% of ones NEAT... Which to me, makes me think being active has a lot to do with it- let alone the metabolic effects likes protein synthesis, triggering hormone synthesis etc. increasing ones BMR by 15% a day is more effective then stacking ECA with Clen lol (10% + 3%)

But like I said, if I misunderstood pls explain (srs)

For one, you are n=1. I know Olympic runners who burn quadruple + on this amount, again we are talking the majority, not the minority. When you consider population data, you must view it as a whole, not as if everyone replicates your energy expenditure. Energy expenditure including NEAT and Exercise can be as low as 15% (according to McArdle and Katch).

secondly, TDEE of males is ~3000, their BMR isn't normally this high

 

[hardwork25]

I wish people read through the entire thread sometimes before they posted lol......

30% of the population is obese according to BMI. How can we treat a "disease" if we can't actually measure it accurately?

There is huge huge debate on if even obesity meets the criteria to be classified as a disease. Classifying it as such does allow for a lot more funding and research, but on the flip side most of that research will go into a pill that can be sold. Coincidence???

 

[hardwork25]

I don't think anyone opposes the use of preventative medicine to prevent obesity. What we're discussing is what to do with the massive amount of the population that is obese

Answer:

Economics.

 

[mcc23]

Regarding more physical activity in the work place: IIRC there are A LOT of companies in Japan that have mandatory calisthenics workouts before they begin work for the day..


edit note: It's China, not Japan. But nonetheless this would be a step in the right direction..

Beijing workers shape up for return of compulsory exercises | World news | theguardian.com