The Bible Study Thread

[TheCrownedOne]

If it interferes with my walk then it needs to be addressed. For me it is a discipline of mind, body and spirit. It is all encompasing. I study a daily Bible verse while I train every morning; feeding my spirit. I train for health (and goals of LBM) and employ very disciplined eating habits; feeding my body. I engage in and study many new aspects of training ideas and concept, develop and keep logs and journals, develop and keep diet planning, spend time and effort advising others; feeding my mind.

I am the Temple of the Holy Spirit. I need to keep it in fine working order in all aspects. At my age I quite honestly have very little vanity aspects of my training goals. Sure I desire to gain LBM, but I am more interested in keeping the lifestyle and disciplines that are associated with achieving my goals than I am at the goal itself. The more I progress the more modest I am about my physique and appearance. I believe it is because of the spirit in which I take on the endeavor that I am able to grow as a whole person.

JMHO

That's JMHO as well...get out of my head, B! :trout:

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Wow, this this thread has evolved hasn't it?

I have some recent testimony to share. Unfortunately I'll have to get back to it later as I'm short on time.

Ironic, that's exactly what it's about... being short on time. God's been talking, but I haven't been listening much. He knows it takes alot to get my attention. I think this 150 dollar speed ticket today has helped.

Brian, I need to reach out to you. It's been a while. Hopefully we can connect soon.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Yes. Let me clarify if I can. I am not too familiar with the bible as some of you guys.

If the original purpose for man was to inherit the earth, why is it that we will eventually inherit the heavens after we die? I mean we've been taught that good people will go to heaven and bad people will not right? Will the earth always have people on it? That's where my confusion lies.

Hopefully you can help me out with that.

Thanks

Colossians
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated
us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

The original purpose for all creation was/is the glory of God and for the Son, who is also God. I can't speak for God and perhaps my knowledge is lacking here, but I suppose God's plan have not changed but were never fully revealed to us.

And no one is good in God's eyes.

Romans
3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Isaiah
64:6b But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;

And no one can earn their way to heaven by any means other than repenting of their sins and accepting Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as the only acceptable propitiation for their sins. Good does not get you to heaven.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Wow, this this thread has evolved hasn't it?

I have some recent testimony to share. Unfortunately I'll have to get back to it later as I'm short on time.

Ironic, that's exactly what it's about... being short on time. God's been talking, but I haven't been listening much. He knows it takes alot to get my attention. I think this 150 dollar speed ticket today has helped.

Brian, I need to reach out to you. It's been a while. Hopefully we can connect soon.

I look forward to reading it. Just be careful you don't interrupt his napping :saw:

 

[Whiskey Steve]

The original purpose for all creation was/is the glory of God and for the Son, who is also God.

Where does it say that the Son(Christ) is God. And that the Holy Ghost is God for that matter. And explain with the verses you will provide.
(just a question)

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Also TCO,
what are you thoughts on these potentially conflicting principles
ST MATTHEW 5:25
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him.......
We are also told to never deny God, nor to deny his hand in all things.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Where does it say that the Son(Christ) is God. And that the Holy Ghost is God for that matter. And explain with the verses you will provide.
(just a question)

No problem:
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I could create my own version of his list, but I figured since he did the work for me...

On the Holy Ghost:

Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit)

the third Person of the Invalid Link Removed
His personality is proved...

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His divinity is established...

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This verse settles it:

1 John
5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the
Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Also some where having some confusion on earth and heaven and if they will become one in the same.
This surely wont help.....lol
ST MATTHEW 5: 1-10
AND seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

This verse settles it:

1 John
5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the
Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Couldn't that mean that they are one in the same will

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Also TCO,
what are you thoughts on these potentially conflicting principles
ST MATTHEW 5:25
Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him.......
We are also told to never deny God, nor to deny his hand in all things.

How is:

Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him

Related to:

We are also told to never deny God, nor to deny his hand in all things

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Couldn't that mean that they are one in the same will

I can mean almost anything you want it to mean, but the only thing it absolutely means without question is:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Actually say no more,
I do not want this to turn into a massive argument
In mormonism we believe in a God head. God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, are (we believe) separate beings. God and Jesus Christ have bodies but the Holy Ghost does not as that would prevent him from being able to perform his duties.

Thank you for the links on your beliefs, i will be sure to check them out

 

[Whiskey Steve]

How is:

Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him

Related to:

We are also told to never deny God, nor to deny his hand in all things

What if your "adversary" wishes to kill you for your belief in God.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I can mean almost anything you want it to mean, but the only thing it absolutely means without question is:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

So your saying that only you have the correct interpretation.
(that was a very confusing post; i feel you walked in a circle)

 

[TheCrownedOne]

So your saying that only you have the correct interpretation.
(that was a very confusing post; i feel you walked in a circle)

Haha, if I didn't say that, I didn't mean that.
I posted the Bible verse once more as a way of saying that I'm not God and cannot speak for God. Thus, the only "interpretation" I feel qualified to make is to take the verse word for word. I assume that because "God is not the Author of confusion" He isn't going to allude to many different things that many may infer from His Words. He keeps things simple: He means what He says. If He meant that they were the same in will, He would have said that.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

What if your "adversary" wishes to kill you for your belief in God.

If that's what you get from it...ok.
But if he does kill me for my belief in God, I'll be incredibly grateful to him. What better way to die than to be killed for God?

 

[DR.D]

Indeed, the Bible (Jesus himself in fact) stated that a man knows no greater honor than to lay down his life for his friends. And since God is our best friend, it would be the best you could do to have not only lived but also to have died for him.

 

[FENRIR]

"when words are many, sin is not absent; but he who holds his tongue is wise"

It's in proverbs...some words I try to live by...though I am not always successful. Awesome thread idea. THANKS! I am really looking forward to seeing what I can learn from this one.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

If that's what you get from it...ok.

What do you mean...... i didnt come to a conclusion, i was asking if you had any other scripture that is relevant to the concept

But if he does kill me for my belief in God, I'll be incredibly grateful to him. What better way to die than to be killed for God?

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Haha, if I didn't say that, I didn't mean that.
I posted the Bible verse once more as a way of saying that I'm not God and cannot speak for God. Thus, the only "interpretation" I feel qualified to make is to take the verse word for word. I assume that because "God is not the Author of confusion" He isn't going to allude to many different things that many may infer from His Words. He keeps things simple: He means what He says. If He meant that they were the same in will, He would have said that.

If God keeps things so simple then what is your interpretation for why Christ refered to himself as The Son of Man (as discussed earlier).....

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Parzival, who is Marsyas from your signature and what were(/are if he is still alive) his teachings or concepts.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

B5150 and TheCrownedOne, can you please edit your posts where you misquoted me and said that I said we were Satans followers.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I also suggest that if you are able to support their unsubstantiality(word?), to do so as well.

Remember to do this......Its only fair

 

[TheCrownedOne]

If God keeps things so simple then what is your interpretation for why Christ refered to himself as The Son of Man (as discussed earlier).....

Don't get an attitude.

From Invalid Link Removed
I'm only copying from this site so I don't have to write everything they've already written.

Jesus used the phrase "Son of Man" of Himself as a reference to the prophecy of Daniel 7:13-14,
"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought Him near before Him. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
The description "Son of Man" was a Messianic title. Jesus is the one who was given dominion and glory and a kingdom. When Jesus used this phrase related to Himself He was assigning the prophecy to Himself. The Jews of that era would have been intimately familiar with the phrase and to whom it referred. He was proclaiming Himself as the Messiah.

A second meaning of the phrase "Son of Man" is that Jesus was truly a human being. God called the prophet Ezekiel "Son of Man" 93 times. God was simply calling Ezekiel a human being. A son of a man is a man. Jesus was fully God (John 1:1,14), but He was also a human being. 1 John 4:2 tells us, "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:" So, in summary, the phrase "Son of Man" indicates that Jesus is the Messiah, and that He was truly a human being.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Don't get an attitude.

Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to better you or whatever. I thought you might think that but i was unsure on how to word the sentence and still convey the thought.....sorry again

as for the rest of your post.......agree to disagree

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Remember to do this......Its only fair

What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to pull out Scripture that specifically addresses the points you made? I'll have to check again, but I'm farely certain that there won't be specific verses that address your opinions that came from I don't know where.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I must ask......Why would Daniel use a screwy name like that in his prophecy causing Christ to have to go out of his way to apply it to himself.
(I dont think it is a screwy name i think it has great significance and accuracy leading us to the Adam-God concept we discussed earlier but lets not bring up that can of worms again for right now......again that is just my opinion)

 

[Whiskey Steve]

What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to pull out Scripture that specifically addresses the points you made? I'll have to check again, but I'm farely certain that there won't be specific verses that address your opinions that came from I don't know where.

Easy easy......and i ment from now on in this thread.
Please do not insult my beliefs!(you just did in a very direct fashion):nono:
You are one agressive person.....take it easy

 

[DR.D]

B5150 and TheCrownedOne, can you please edit your posts where you misquoted me and said that I said we were Satans followers.

What's your problem anyway? I will not attempt to speak for them, but if I catch you misleading people with any extra-Biblical BS, I will be quick to jump on you too. Also, if you don't follow Christ, you do follow Satan. Don't come around here pushing your cultic crap. There is only one way to the Father, and that is though the Son. You had better keep it Biblical.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

What's your problem anyway? I will not attempt to speak for them, but if I catch you misleading people with any extra-Biblical BS, I will be quick to jump on you too. Also, if you don't follow Christ, you do follow Satan. Don't come around here pushing your cultic crap. There is only one way to the Father, and that is though the Son. You had better keep it Biblical.

I did not say that either, of coarse we followed Christ thats why we are here. Now we need to continue to follow him.

What are you talking about "cultic crap"?.....and did you not read my post where I was the one who brought up that Isaic(i think) advised us not to consult with mystics from the east.

 

[DR.D]

Your a Mormon right? That's what I mean by cultic crap! Keep that **** off the boards, it's not Christianity. I just finished converting a Mormon girl at work back to real Christianity, and it really upsets me the crap that church tries to pull. She told me about all the stupid rituals she had to go though every month and about the 3 levels of heaven and explained to me that it would ruin her marriage if she left the church. Her husband believes that his eternal salvation will be compromised if his wife is not a mormon, so she must now leave their family to get away for it. She also showed me the mormon Bible. That really pissed me off. Who the hell are you to add any words to the Bible?! Your “prophet” has extra revelations that Jesus failed to mention, give me a break! I'm serious, stay off my bad side buddy. I know what you are. You are no better than an Islamic to me. Mohamed had 14 year old wives too, what a perv and what a load of crap you believe in. DO NOT push that counterfeit Christianity around here.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Parzival, who is Marsyas from your signature

bump

 

[Parzival]

I don't think it is fair to reduce all Mysticism to some sentimental old men looking for an escape from their sorrowful lives. I strongly believe that there is no reason why those who are aware of the potential of connecting with some sort of transcendent yet immananent reality should be frowned upon. Although not everyone has this capacity in their psychological makeup their are ways for even simple folk to commune with the One Life that nourishes us from within and without. Jesus himself was a mystic while on this earth, The Holy Spirit dwells in the manifest universe, so why should we not be able to commune with Him? The Kingdow of Heaven is within right? "In the last days I will pour my Spirit out on all flesh. Your daughters shall prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams." I'm quoting from memory here so correct my errors if they be present.
God is not an autocratic dictator IMO, he gave us inquisitive souls and free wills to discover Truth for ourselves by spiritual experience. Truth is the greatest gift he can give, but we must be willing to pursue it. His Word is not found IMO in the dead pages of the Bible or any book for that matter, but rather is spoken as a living Word directly to our hearts when and wherever we sincerely seek him. This is not just a silly sentimental notion though, because he expects things from us and punishes us, sometimes severely, but only to show us his Love for us. In a way, I believe Jesus' mission was to remind us of our Divine parentage and to instruct us on how to regain it. ( I am the Way) Basically to become like Him not to feebly worship Him as an idol is worshipped.`

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Your a Mormon right? That's what I mean by cultic crap! Keep that **** off the boards, it's not Christianity. I just finished converting a Mormon girl at work back to real Christianity, and it really upsets me the crap that church tries to pull. She told me about all the stupid rituals she had to go though every month and about the 3 levels of heaven and explained to me that it would ruin her marriage if she left the church. Her husband believes that his eternal salvation will be compromised if his wife is not a mormon, so she must now leave their family to get away for it. She also showed me the mormon Bible. That really pissed me off. Who the hell are you to add any words to the Bible?! Your “prophet” has extra revelations that Jesus failed to mention, give me a break! I'm serious, stay off my bad side buddy. I know what you are. You are no better than an Islamic to me. Mohamed had 14 year old wives too, what a perv and what a load of crap you believe in. DO NOT push that counterfeit Christianity around here.

How dare you tell me that my Christian religion is not Christian. A cult is when someone randomly founds a religion professing that they are Christ. We believe in the same Christ that you do. Dont take what our members say as fact.

 

[16vt]

Thanks for your comments TCO. They are very informative.

Your quote from 1 John 5:7,8 appears to be from KJV. But a few other translations state: "the three agree or are in agreement."

Whiskey, I agree with you concerning God, Christ and the Holy spirit. I believe them to be seperate.

Some say Jesus is God. But I don't believe that it was God who died for us. How could that be? God can not die, could he? If it was him, who raised him back up? I believe they are not the same.

I recall a few times when Jesus prayed to his father. Once when he was about to be betrayed and another time when he was laying his life down for us. Was he not praying to God? I believe he was, he said father on numerous occassions. Why would he pray to himself if he infact was God? Maybe I'm missing something.

Then we have the scriptures in Matthew 5. Speaks of ones that will inherit the heavens and the earth.

So if we have a group with heavenly intentions and one group with earthly intentions, how do we figure out who's going or staying, etc?

Interesting to say the least. These discussions have be great so far guys, let's continue to respect each other and each others beliefs.

Thanks

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I did not say God died for us 16vt. Christ died for us.








It is very clear that in this thread i have "cast my pearls before swine"(those who will trample on them).

The LDS Church is a Christian religion that believes in the same Christ as all the other Christian faiths.


I was going to insult Dr.D and spread hate and contention such as he has but that would not be Christian now would it.

I will not stay on a board where members would conduct themselves in the manner Dr.D has.



And with that would a mod please remove my records from this site.

 

[16vt]

Sorry Whiskey. I got ahead of myself. I edited the text to show a different thought. I know what you said. I just didn't typed it properly.

 

[Parzival]

Your a Mormon right? That's what I mean by cultic crap! Keep that **** off the boards, it's not Christianity. I just finished converting a Mormon girl at work back to real Christianity, and it really upsets me the crap that church tries to pull. She told me about all the stupid rituals she had to go though every month and about the 3 levels of heaven and explained to me that it would ruin her marriage if she left the church. Her husband believes that his eternal salvation will be compromised if his wife is not a mormon, so she must now leave their family to get away for it. She also showed me the mormon Bible. That really pissed me off. Who the hell are you to add any words to the Bible?! Your “prophet” has extra revelations that Jesus failed to mention, give me a break! I'm serious, stay off my bad side buddy. I know what you are. You are no better than an Islamic to me. Mohamed had 14 year old wives too, what a perv and what a load of crap you believe in. DO NOT push that counterfeit Christianity around here.

I will interject here on behalf of Whiskey. I do not pretend to have firsthand experience inside the LDS church but what I have read has led me to disagree with most of the religious precepts put forth by this organization. However if the guy was raised this way he can only speak from this background as it has been instilled in him from birth I assume. In other words he had no control over what particular faith he grew up in. Whether I like his church or its members or not is irrelevant, what I do respect is his sincerity in some of the things he is asking about, he seems genuine in his desire to learn something. I don't think he's "pushing" anything on anybody. I am in no way saying that I agree with everything he does but can meet him 'on the level' with respect to his acceptance of Jesus which is the One Thing all denominations have in common. I admire your zeal, but I think it's a little misdirected in this case. With regard to Islam, I think that comment about fourteen year old girls shows a slight misunderstanding or maybe just ignorance of historical fact. In ancient times girls were often married as young as twelve, I'm not saying it's right by today's standards but that's just how things were done. Dare I add that Mary was probably around fourteen or so when she was betrothed to Joseph, does this make him a perv as well? Or David because he had wives in the hundreds? I don't follow Islam nor do I defend recent acts perpetuated by such fanatics of whom we are all aware, but I do sense some of the same dangerous fundamentalism and intolerance emerging in your criticism of this young man. I would encourage you to refrain from scathing remarks such as these under a banner of "defender of the faith" or (whatever self-styled heroics you are perpetuating) as this same banner flew above the horrors and smoke of the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, and countless other acts of gross destruction carried out in the name of God. That is all.

 

[Parzival]

I now intend to divert the flow my energies to restoring this thread to its original purpose. I can share my experiences about a friend of mine named Chris who has come into my life by decree of sorts. His mother and mine have been friends for years(at least ten maybe more) and although I had met him before I was usually friendly, but distant in these encounters. Now Chris has some learning disabilities which are apparent when he tries to engage himself socially, usually manifesting to others like he 'just doen't get it' (trips over words doesn't follow conv. well makes 'off' or random remarks, etc.) He really tries hard to meet people and make friends but most people, because they don't know about some of the deficiencies he has been dealt, write him off or worse, turn to insults or mocking. Because of this as well he has few if any friends and no luck whatsoever with the opposite sex. I will admit that had I not known about these conditions upon meeting him I may have resorted to one of these responses (I would like to think only the former).
However, recently upon meeting again recently after not seeing each other for years I felt God speaking to me about Chris's need for a true friend and decided to resign my ego to discover what this meant. Since that moment, both of our lives have been greatly enriched. We hang out at least once a week, watch movies, drink coffee and or/red wine and beer together, cook good meals like chicken marsala, talk about training together,( to his credit he just earned his ISSA cert as a PT, no small task for someone with his disability) and just have fun. He is one of the most genuine people I've met thus far and I find myself learning so much from him. I don't think he has a malicious bone in his body or would harm anyone at all. It is a challenge trying to relate to him at times and even frustrating trying to communicate but I get the utmost joy when he tells me how grateful he is to have a friend like me in his life. So it goes with God, He finds ways to challenge you through loving others that are to a passing glance unlovable, but if your heart is open, he shows you the infinite possibilities of being allied to the One who creates the Universe.I hope this encourages everybody to be more aware of the opportunities everywhere to live your faith and listen for the cue to help or protect people who are 'outcast.'

 

[DR.D]

Parzival,

I'm sorry, I should have elaborated on my comparisons. I know people where given in marriage much more young back then, and that shouldn't have been the meat of my argument. I will not tolerate counterfeit Christianity, however. By that, I do not mean everyone that doesn't see it my way! Believe me, I'm still studying and learning everyday and could keep doing so forever I suppose. It is clear that if we believe in Christ, we must all stick to a Bible of common reference (KJ or NIV) and leave the denominational garbage out of these conversations. Of course, the politics of any church make that a difficult task. As you can see, there is a cast system of salvation in the mormon church that will necessarily influence the attitude and advise he will give here. It's the doctrine of his church I object to, and don't say he was born into it. We were all born into something. I became a Christian at 27 years of age after being a hardcore scientific agnostic my whole life, so it is not impossible to change at any point one chooses. I pray that he does. If he could stay in the Bible, I would not complain, but he believes in a religion that professes Jesus and then makes its own rules. This is dangerous. I would let it slide (I'm not trying to reinstate the Inquisition by any means) but what alarms me is that young or potential new Christians may hear this and be mislead! Those who mislead innocent others into hell will be judged most harshly by God. I have no place to judge non-believers, but if he calls himself a Christian it indeed is my place to judge him. It is in his best interests also to think about what he tells people in the future. If he is a wise man, he will heed the rebuke of his brothers and consider it in his heart. Only a fool despises correction. We are too close to the end of days that anyone of us should be comfortable with false teachings. It's my belief that you quickly develop a bit more of your own zeal and stop tolerating the dissention. I can not stay quiet about a Church that tells their members that it is a sin to drink coffee or tea and can send you to hell, but you can drink sodas all day. There is often more caffeine in the soda! God stated in Geneses that all these plants and herbs were ours to use as food. It is a clear flaw in their fundamental doctrine. I have another news flash for you too: Jesus will not reappear in Missouri! I am offended that you would even defend this crap for him. The Bible makes it clear the manor and location in which our Savior will return. I am no fundamentalist, quite liberal actually, but I will attack counterfeits with all the rage that I would battle Satan himself, because that’s where this deception comes from in the first place. You had better take off your rose colored glasses my brother, there is soon to be a battle and you seem a bit impotent as of now. You should be careful with your Mysticism as well. We are not mystics, and do not have the same vocation as Christ. We are to emulate him, but we shall never be him. He is 1 within the Godhead of the Trinity, and our standard to live by only. You are not "becoming a god".

 

[B5150]

I said no more doctrine BS. Thank you.

 

[Matthew D]

well that was a good thread... I think in the future that we no try to do this one again ever

 

[B5150]

Sadly, I agree. I know that I appreciate the freedom that was allowed to discuss this with civility. But, sadly, that doesn't seem to ever last very long. I'm not too sure that others realized or recognized that this freedom requires discretion and discernment.

Anabolicminds; there's no place like home

 

[bioman]

For the most part, a nice thread but as in real life there are those who "know" what they call the truth more than anyone else and this leads them to be at odds with all the other people who feel they too, know absolute truth.

Always remember that you are basing this knowledge on words that are over 2000 years old. If you've ever played the phone game you might get a sense of how messages get mixed.

I'm not terribly religious but I do think that if your interpretation of the Word leads to hatred of another for their interpretation...you need to re-evaluate your direction. God transcends all absolutes..except for Love.

 

[Matthew D]

very true thoughs Bioman.. very true