The Androsterone Thread

LegalGear said:
Sublingual 1-Andro would be sweet I bet. We looked into it and will do it if LG ever brings out a 1-Andro product.

We are working on a Sub lingual PCT product which we think will be killer for daily testosterone boosting.
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That's what I'm talkin bout. :clap2:
For whatever reason, I love the idea of sublingual delivery.
 
poopypants said:
yes this is why I compared it to a testoterone base... test is def active in and of itself but there can be many additions or removals to that base molecule to make it have the different effects.... just wanted to make sure androsterone was basically the same way.

this is frickin awesome that your able to get these all out and basically be DSHEA.... right? oh well they are out now :D

You think theres a chance these will make a longer run besides your limited one now?
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Is dienolone best used for cutting ?what stacks best with it and will you be doing any combos like 1-ad and 4-ad ?
 
I have been checking the legal gear site wayyyyyyy too much lol I feel like an insane person. I really like that lg, ams etc are exploring new stuff it is so much safer and provides results keep up the good work!
 
Like everyone I was a little OVER excited when I thought we could have it Monday or Tuesday. I thought we had a credit card processor for LegalGear already, but only one for LG Sciences.

The sub PCT product is going to be VERY cool. We should have it launched very soon.
 
LegalGear said:
Like everyone I was a little OVER excited when I thought we could have it Monday or Tuesday. I thought we had a credit card processor for LegalGear already, but only one for LG Sciences.

The sub PCT product is going to be VERY cool. We should have it launched very soon.
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sounds good just let us know when its all together.

Any word on if you were able to find that ment-doine???
 
I'd have to find it. I am just so freaking busy right now. I am sure it would rock... I know I owe it to a few, I will have to look when I get back to michigan (few months, so don't hold your breath).
 
LegalGear said:
I'd have to find it. I am just so freaking busy right now. I am sure it would rock... I know I owe it to a few, I will have to look when I get back to michigan (few months, so don't hold your breath).
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sounds good, just keep on rockin what your doin now, LG is impressin me more and more with its new releases.

But Ill be :stick: in a couple months from now when I remember bout this :D.
 
Ok, update... labels are in, raws and carriers are in, just need to get the stupid credit card processing stuff done and we will be ready to roll.

The sublingual PCT... Ok, here is the deal with it:

The problem I feel with natural SERMS is that they are not particularily bioavailable. For example Resveratrol is a good SERM/ERM but is rapidly sulfated. Some people put in Quercetin and then take massive doses, but I think this isn't necessarily the best choice. I feel that Ellagic Acid has a similar problem in the cut, due to its similar structure.

Both are good SERMs (I will post the study on Ellagic Acid at the end of this post) but suffer from a lack of bioavailability.

Additionally, if you look at tamoxifen, it uses a similar liver blocking system to keep it active, which is why it is not really the best for PCT after a cycle of orals.

So, an oral product would have to stay around for a long while in order to work properly. A sublingual product dosed 3 times per day I think solves all of these issues.

Direct liver passing effect.
Direct stomach passing effect means no sulfotransferase issues.
Low molecular weights of both Ellagic Acid and Resveratrol makes it feasable.

So, in a nutshell, that is the basis for the product. Just running it now.

Evaluation of estrogenic/antiestrogenic activity of ellagic acid via the estrogen receptor subtypes ERalpha and ERbeta.Papoutsi Z, Kassi E, Tsiapara A, Fokialakis N, Chrousos GP, Moutsatsou P.
Department of Biological Chemistry, Medical School, University of Athens Mikras Asias Str 75, Goudi, Athens 11527, Greece.

Ellagic acid is a plant-derived polyphenol, possessing antioxidant, antiproliferative, and antiatherogenic properties. Whether this compound has estrogenic/antiestrogenic activity, however, remains largely unknown. To answer this question, we first investigated the ability of ellagic acid to influence the activity of the estrogen receptor subtypes ERalpha and ERbeta in HeLa cells. Cells co-transfected with an estrogen response element (ERE)-driven luciferase (Luc) reporter gene and an ERalpha- or ERbeta-expression vector were exposed to graded concentrations of ellagic acid. At low concentrations (10(-7) to 10(-9) M), this compound displayed a small but significant estrogenic activity via ERalpha, whereas it was a complete estrogen antagonist via ERbeta. Further evaluation revealed that ellagic acid was a potent antiestrogen in MCF-7 breast cancer-derived cells, increasing, like the pure estrogen antagonist ICI182780, IGFBP-3 levels. Moreover, ellagic acid induced nodule mineralization in an osteoblastic cell line (KS483), an effect that was abolished by the estrogen antagonist. Endometrium-derived epithelial cells (Ishikawa) showed no response to the natural compound by using a cell viability assay (MTT). These findings suggest that ellagic acid may be a natural selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM).
 
I personally think this PCT thing is your most interesting product. I'll be your first customer. :cheers:
 
dang. if it significantly enhances resveratrol bioavailability, i'm definitely in for that. I take 1g/day now all the time as it is
 
LegalGear said:
....

Additionally, if you look at tamoxifen, it uses a similar liver blocking system to keep it active, which is why it is not really the best for PCT after a cycle of orals.

...
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this study seems to imply the opposite but perhaps it's another process that deactivates tamox or its isoforms.

Lack of Attenuation in the Antitumor Effect of Tamoxifen by Chronic CYP Isoform Inhibition
David Lehmann, MD, Jamie Nelsen, PharmD, Vijay Ramanath, MD, Nancy Newman, MS, David Duggan, MD and Adrienne Smith, PharmD
From SUNY Upstate Medical University, Syracuse, New York.


Tamoxifen is a selective estrogen receptor modulator used in estrogen receptor-positive breast cancer. Tamoxifen is metabolized to an extremely potent antiestrogen by cytochrome P450 (CYP) 2D6, 2C9, and 3A isoforms. The selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are potent inhibitors of these CYPs. Since the prevalence of depression in breast cancer patients is nearly triple that of the general population, it is likely that a subgroup of breast cancer patients will receive long-term treatment with both an SSRI and tamoxifen. A case control design was used to investigate the possibility that a resultant decrease in production of the 4-hydroxy metabolite from chronic inhibition results in the attenuation of the antitumor effect of tamoxifen. Twenty-eight patients without recurrences of breast cancer (controls) were matched to an equal number of cases (recurrences) by cancer stage and year of diagnosis. Data were analyzed on all chronic medication exposure (> 3 months) in both cases and controls classified as to their status as CYP 2D6, 2C9, and 3A inhibitors, substrates, or inducers. No significant difference was found for CYP inhibitor or substrate exposure between cases and controls. Indeed, controls showed a slightly greater exposure to inhibitors of the relevant CYP isoforms compared to cases. These results suggested a trend toward the null hypothesis. It is unlikely that the effect of chronic exposure to potent CYP isoform inhibitors affects the antitumor effect of tamoxifen and its 4-hydroxy metabolite, supporting the safety of the continued practice of concomitant SSRI administration to breast cancer patients with depression.
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Not really seeing how that study is relevant. I am not saying that Tamoxifen is going to cause significant liver issues, but people don't know that it is liver stressing and I think they should.
 
I'm very enthusiastic about this sublingual PCT thing. (And any other sublinguals you may have coming down the pipeline.) I'll keep my eyes open for the official launch...
:woohoo:
 
The topicals are ready to begin shipping, we don't have the credit card processing on the web site yet, but if you want to call and place an order, then the number to our office is:

877-861-6502

60 servings per bottle:

LGP-1T - 75mg 1-Androsterone per serving - $39.99

LGP-19NOR - 65mg 19Nor-4-Androsterone per serving $44.95

LGP-5aA - 100mg EpiAndrosterone per serving $34.99

LGP-ECY - 85mg Ecdysterone per serving $34.99

You can call tomorrow to order!
 
roughly # of servings per bottle? DOH I missed it in the first line :) silly me I was getting all excited

dang those sound good.
 
This is the first round. We are working on the Estra 4,9 Dione next then the 4-Androsterone and ultimately a 4-OH. One at a time though as we get the raws. China is really cracking down on the hormone exports due to the Olympics.
 
LegalGear said:
The topicals are ready to begin shipping, we don't have the credit card processing on the web site yet, but if you want to call and place an order, then the number to our office is:

877-861-6502

60 servings per bottle:

LGP-1T - 75mg 1-Androsterone per serving - $39.99

LGP-19NOR - 65mg 19Nor-4-Androsterone per serving $44.95

LGP-5aA - 100mg EpiAndrosterone per serving $34.99

LGP-ECY - 85mg Ecdysterone per serving $34.99

You can call tomorrow to order!
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Is 65mg of 19norAndrosterone really going to be a significant dose? I was reading up and with the 19nor(dione) dosing was ranging between 600-1200mg and even with the nordiol products dosing was typically around 300-600 and those were 1 conversion products not two conversions like Androsterone......

Will 120mg ed really even be noticable? Id like to be sure since its also the most expensive and I dont have alot of money to put on something that needs double dosing.
 
poopypants said:
Is 65mg of 19norAndrosterone really going to be a significant dose? I was reading up and with the 19nor(dione) dosing was ranging between 600-1200mg and even with the nordiol products dosing was typically around 300-600 and those were 1 conversion products not two conversions like Androsterone......

Will 120mg ed really even be noticable? Id like to be sure since its also the most expensive and I dont have alot of money to put on something that needs double dosing.
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Bump
 
LegalGear said:
The topicals are ready to begin shipping, we don't have the credit card processing on the web site yet, but if you want to call and place an order, then the number to our office is:

877-861-6502

60 servings per bottle:

LGP-1T - 75mg 1-Androsterone per serving - $39.99

LGP-19NOR - 65mg 19Nor-4-Androsterone per serving $44.95

LGP-5aA - 100mg EpiAndrosterone per serving $34.99

LGP-ECY - 85mg Ecdysterone per serving $34.99

You can call tomorrow to order!
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Could you please provide any insight as to the difference between LGP-ECY - 85mg Ecdysterone & Dermasize ?
 
Poopy as these are trial runs these are also trial doses. Now androsterones may be more activated in a dermal because of the skin and some of the enzymes in the skin. Id say if you were going to purchase the product buy 2 bottles for safety BUT in reference i did use 1andro back in the day and 1 androsterone and honestly it was almost mg for mg as strong!
 
As for the 19Nor, that was a daily dose orally. Transdermally should have much better bioavailability which is why you put it on your skin to begin with! The 19Nor product also contains Beta Sitosterol which should increase the potency.
 
Transdermal products may deliver 30% but honestly it seemed like it was mroe along the lines of 20%. I wonder how oral bioavailability compares. At least with a trandermal you get a sustained release.
 
Let's say one were to run the 1-andro as a standalone. What would type of results could one expect(size and strength) and what would be the recommended dosage?
 
sactown1 said:
Let's say one were to run the 1-andro as a standalone. What would type of results could one expect(size and strength) and what would be the recommended dosage?
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Depends on how PH/Gear experience. Ive had plenty experience and still make nice gains off of 1-andro as standalone. Id say in 4-6 weeks a solid 5-8 lbs is easily attainable.
 
what is everyones take on the new 1-ad transdermal that Legal gear has coming out? What are the expected gains on it from a normal dosage of 1 bottle? Of course with the proper training and caloric surplus ;)
 
Well that depends.. I answered ur question Eagleman in a couple posts up.

Id buy 2 bottles of 1-ad and 1 bottles of Epiandro. You should be good to go freezito.
 
I am going to be really candid here. I never got anything off of 1-Test transdermally. I took One from Avant it didn't do anything for me at all. I ran a few bottles actually and heavily dosed. I had much better luck with dermal 1-AD. I know people had good luck with our dermals and One and One+ but for me, the 1-Test dermals were not effective really.
 
LegalGear said:
I am going to be really candid here. I never got anything off of 1-Test transdermally. I took One from Avant it didn't do anything for me at all. I ran a few bottles actually and heavily dosed. I had much better luck with dermal 1-AD. I know people had good luck with our dermals and One and One+ but for me, the 1-Test dermals were not effective really.
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Can you referr me to a standard dosing schedule for the 1-AD trans just for a slight comparison?

I know 4-AD was typically 100-200mg 2x ed and that 1-AD was less but cant remember right now.
 
I would say 150-300mg per day of each of them should give good results. Of course hard core users are going to want to double up, like anything else. Still, for a complete cycle $80 for two bottles of LGP-1-T double dosed isn't bad compared to even the old prices for topicals. That would be 300mg per day of 1-Androsterone and should be enough for anyone based on my experience with 1-AD topical. I just filtered 3/4 of a bottle of 1-AD in alcohol to be honest which would have been about 4.5g or so.
 
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