Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2021 Edition)

sns8778

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@The Solution asked in another thread a moment ago about the status of the daily use ergogenic. We have a formula done for that. We had it done, then tweaked something that caused more of a flavor change than expected so we had to redo some flavor samples. I'm still open to ideas though - we could potentially still change it or the ideas could lead to a separate product. The SNS one is going to be VERY comprehensive so we could always look at doing one with less in it as a different product or under CEL.
 
AndroRage

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I wish I could find where I wrote the very well thought out answer on Optimize-T. I'm normally pretty well spoken but today is one of those days I have a headache so this may come out less articulate than I'd like haha.

M-Test is a great natural testosterone booster for increasing levels of both free and total testosterone as well as supporting libido, improved sense of well-being, and more.

Optimize-T will not just be for libido; it will be a natural testosterone booster and libido enhancer as well.

We started teasing the name Optimize-T years ago but what took us so long to come out with it was that M-Test is such a great and comprehensive natural testosterone booster, that we had to find a way to not compete with it. Even though Optimize-T will be a natural testosterone booster and libido enhancer, it will be completely different than M-Test.

There are so many natural testosterone boosting ingredients that no one product could contain them all, especially not at efficacious dosages. So that's where the products will be distinguished from one another. There will be a slight overlap, but for the most part Optimize-T will contain some things that M-Test doesn't have, just like M-Test will contain some things Optimize-T won't have. Some people will like one better and some will like the other better; and I'd bet that some people will respond to one better, and some people will respond to the other better.

Here's one example I can give of the distinction - KSM66 and Mucuna Pruriens are loved by most people, but there are some people that are very sensitive to them and get sleep from them, so they may not like them. For the people that love them, M-Test contains both at great dosages. But for the people that don't, Optimize-T doesn't have them.

But one cool thing is that they can be stacked if you want to.

I'll drop one more hint on Optimize-T - EVERY single ingredient in Optimize-T is a licensed, branded ingredient :)
sounds great, thanks for clarifying. When is it released to buy or unveiled? Is it a CEL or SNS, I’m guessing the latter? I’m glad it will have PrimaVie :)
 
sns8778

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sounds great, thanks for clarifying. When is it released to buy or unveiled? Is it a CEL or SNS, I’m guessing the latter? I’m glad it will have PrimaVie :)
Optimize-T will be under SNS.

And yes, it will have PrimaVie :)
 
AndroRage

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Optimize-T will be under SNS.

And yes, it will have PrimaVie :)
Hopefully it will have 500mg or more of PrimaVie. My one gripe of M-Test is the dosage, as has been studied at 500mg (aswell as lower dosage) and I have to add Jarrow PrimaVie (250mg per cap) to it to make it up. Is this guna be available in UK/EU?
Thanks again
 
Cheeky Monkey

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BAM15, the lite mitochindrial uncoupler! Some bro found a bottle of it in Russia.
 
sns8778

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Hopefully it will have 500mg or more of PrimaVie. My one gripe of M-Test is the dosage, as has been studied at 500mg (aswell as lower dosage) and I have to add Jarrow PrimaVie (250mg per cap) to it to make it up. Is this guna be available in UK/EU?
Thanks again
PrimaVie has been studied at 200 mg. (the dose in M-Test) as well as the 500 mg. dose.

There are 2 reasons there isn't 500 mg. in M-Test:
1) Price - PrimaVie is an expensive ingredient. A lot of brands that say they use PrimaVie really use generic. We use real PrimaVie.
2) PrimaVie is in so many things that the worry was if dosed it at 500 mg., some people that may use PrimaVie in other products may avoid taking M-Test for worry of taking too much.

As far as the UK, everything we make is available for sale to UK retailers. I really wish we had more UK retailers and that the ones we did brought in the new products more efficiently. Sometimes I feel like its like having to beg them to carry the new products, which sucks for customers and for us..
 
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sns8778

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BAM15, the lite mitochindrial uncoupler! Some bro found a bottle of it in Russia.
Isn't that more of a chemical than a supplement? I may be mistaken.

Also:
Someone found a product in Russia that we haven't made in 10 years. Oh, and it claimed to have a current expiration date.
Meaning - the Russian market counterfeits a lot of products so I wouldn't trust anything like that.
 
AndroRage

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PrimaVie has been studied at 250 mg. (the dose in M-Test) as well as the 500 mg. dose.

There are 2 reasons there isn't 500 mg. in M-Test:
1) Price - PrimaVie is an expensive ingredient. A lot of brands that say they use PrimaVie really use generic. We use real PrimaVie.
2) PrimaVie is in so many things that the worry was if dosed it at 500 mg., some people that may use PrimaVie in other products may avoid taking M-Test for worry of taking too much.

As far as the UK, everything we make is available for sale to UK retailers. I really wish we had more UK retailers and that the ones we did brought in the new products more efficiently. Sometimes I feel like its like having to beg them to carry the new products, which sucks for customers and for us..

If it’s studied at 250mg, why include it at 200mg (M-Test dosage) ?

It’s 250mg in Anabolic Effect...

Not wanting to argue, apologies if it came across that way. PowerMyself carry a lot of stuff and best prices.
 
sns8778

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If it’s studied at 250mg, why include it at 200mg (M-Test dosage) ?

It’s 250mg in Anabolic Effect...

Not wanting to argue, apologies if it came across that way. PowerMyself carry a lot of stuff and best prices.
Because I typo'd that because I'm still half asleep haha. (Worked on label text for new products until 4 am)
I had edited it to say 200 mg. but you had replied before I caught and corrected it.

The first common dose of PrimaVie was 200 mg. It was dosed at that or less for many years when the ingredient first came out and got popular.

I didn't take you as argumentative at all. I'm sorry if my post came off as argumentative; I didn't mean it that way if it did. I like you and enjoy your posts and always appreciate your participation in threads. And I never mind answering questions as to why things are dosed the way they are.

I love Powermyself. We've worked with them for years. I just wish they'd bring in our new products faster.
 
sns8778

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I created a thread like I had mentioned thinking about doing, about making separate threads in the SNS section to discuss specific types of product and formulation ideas.

Here is a link to the master thread on it:

We have been asked a lot to do a product specific for libido, so for anyone interested in helping with ideas or following along, here's a link:
 

Stern3657

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Would a non-stimulant appetite suppressant be feasible? I know Lean Edge helps with appetite but I am wondering if the formula would be different if focused on that?
 

Lemon1992

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I hope that everyone's new year is off to a great start.

We had a thread last year that produced a lot of great suggestions for products that people would like to see from us.
Although initially delayed by the Covid situation, many of the ideas from that thread are now on their way and in various stages of production.

The 2020 version of this thread is still going strong with multiple ideas being discussed. I want to keep that going and this new thread is by no means meant to take away from that one at all.

I have just had some people message me & ask if there would be a 2021 version of the thread so that they could throw out ideas (without feeling like they had to go thru the long 2020 one). So for this thread, it doesn't matter if the idea was mentioned in the 2020 one, we still want to hear it :)

I look forward to hearing any ideas that people would like to see from SNS and Competitive Edge Labs in 2021.

Feel free to suggest single ingredient and/or combination ideas.

Thanks and I look forward to seeing everyone's ideas.
I’m a bit late to the party, but let me throw in my 2 cents. Something I’ve noticed over the year that’s lacking in the supplement industry is a SUPER bioenhancer – yes, you’ve read that right a SUPER bioenhancer – not just one bioenhancer like BioPerine. Couple years ago, before it was discontinued I used to order this super blend bioenhancer from Germany (ResoMax from ZeinPharma). Sadly, it was discontinued… I’ve been making my own blend for about 4-5 years now which consists of: naringin, bioperine, ginger (standardized 20% gingerols) and Ceylon cinnamon,

By no means am I discrediting BioPerine, but imagine if the bioavailability of your supplements could be even more enhanced and the effects even more pronounced. Moreover, different bioenhancers have different effects on the body and some have been shown to work synergistically with bioperine. Note, I don’t know how successful it would be on the market as it seems that not too many people are into bioenhancers (mainly due to unawareness I think).

203165


I would personally bring some changes to the blend though:

I would keep the following ingredients:
  • Bioperine of course. It acts as bioenhancer to vitamins (A, B1, B2, B6, C, D, E, K), amino acids (lysine, isoleucine, leucine, threonine, valine, tryptophan, phenylalanine, and methionine), minerals (iodine, calcium, iron, zinc, copper, selenium, magnesium, potassium, manganese), herbal compounds (including ginsenosides, Pycnogenol), and drugs (such as ibuprofen, diclofenac, rifampicin, ampicillin, tetracycline, vasicine, pyrazinamide, fexofenadine, resveratrol, epigallocatechin, curcumin).

    Fun fact, the bioenhancing property of piperine was first utilized in the treatment of tuberculosis in human. Piperine was found to increase the bioavailability of rifampicin by about 60% and hence reduce the dose from 450 to 200mg.

  • Ginger Extract (high in gingerols). It acts synergistically with piperine. It contains Gingerol which facilitates better absorption by regulating GI tract function. The effective dose of the bioenhancer extract is in the range of 10- 30 mg/kg body weight.

  • Gingerol obtained from ginger acts by promoting intestinal activity, drugs that can be bioenhanced using gingerol includes methotrxate, vitamin A, Azithromycin, cephalexin, cefadroxil, amoxicillin, cloxacillin, rifampicin, ethionamide, ketoconazol, zidovudine, pefloxacin, erythromycin and 5-FU.

  • Naringin. This is flavanoid obtain in grapefruit, apples, onion and tea. It exhibits pharmacological actions like anti-oxidant, anti-ulcer, anti-allergic and blood lipid lowering. Naringin is capable of inhibiting intestinal CYP3A4, CYP3A1, CYP3A2, P-gp and thus acts as a bioenhancer. Since it’s capable of inhibiting P-gp and CYP3A4 this results in decreased drug dose and increased plasmadrug concentration.

  • Cinnamon because of cinnamaldehyde. In vivo studies have shown that oral administration of cinnamaldehyde reduces lipid accumulation, have insulinotropic action in STZ-induced diabetic rats and have potent antihyperglycemic action. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2018.00893/full

  • Maybe I would add capsaicin, but in the past every time I tried combining capsaicin and bioperine, my stomach didn’t like it too much, the burning sensation of capsaicin was way to intensified… on the edge about that one. Probably would leave it out.
I would remove:
  • Black cumin (Cuminum cyminum). Although, its active principle content luteolin shows synergistic effect with piperine and ginger, I’d remove it because it’s been reported to be estrogenic. Would be great in a blend for older women though.

  • Aloe, although it is an important source of phytochemicals I wouldn’t really use it in sport supplements such as pre-workout, stimulants, etc., but definitely would in topical fat burners, skincare, multivitamins, nutricosmetics and nutriceuticals as it’s been shown to increase and improve the absorption of both the vitamin C and E. The absorption is slower and vitamins last longer in the plasma with aloes and increase the bioavailability of Vitamin C and E in human. It is also capable of inhibiting the release of reactive oxygen free radicals from activated human neutrophils. A very interesting bioehencer though, definitely needs more research.
All that said though, note there are plenty of other bioenhancers out there (e.g., Allicin, Quercetin, turmeric, Genistein, etc.), I just haven’t tried them so I can’t really comment. Bioehencers are pretty interesting compounds, but two advices I’d give 1) if you’re taking any meds be extremely careful, 2) also be extremely careful when It comes to mixing various bioehencers with stimulants (in my early 20s, I learned that the hard way… felt the effects of ECP stack for a whole 8 hour shift at work…).

Here's some more info about differerent types of bioenhancers:
 
aaronuconn

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I’m a bit late to the party, but let me throw in my 2 cents. Something I’ve noticed over the year that’s lacking in the supplement industry is a SUPER bioenhancer – yes, you’ve read that right a SUPER bioenhancer – not just one bioenhancer like BioPerine. Couple years ago, before it was discontinued I used to order this super blend bioenhancer from Germany (ResoMax from ZeinPharma). Sadly, it was discontinued… I’ve been making my own blend for about 4-5 years now which consists of: naringin, bioperine, ginger (standardized 20% gingerols) and Ceylon cinnamon,

By no means am I discrediting BioPerine, but imagine if the bioavailability of your supplements could be even more enhanced and the effects even more pronounced. Moreover, different bioenhancers have different effects on the body and some have been shown to work synergistically with bioperine. Note, I don’t know how successful it would be on the market as it seems that not too many people are into bioenhancers (mainly due to unawareness I think).

View attachment 203165

I would personally bring some changes to the blend though:

I would keep the following ingredients:
  • Bioperine of course. It acts as bioenhancer to vitamins (A, B1, B2, B6, C, D, E, K), amino acids (lysine, isoleucine, leucine, threonine, valine, tryptophan, phenylalanine, and methionine), minerals (iodine, calcium, iron, zinc, copper, selenium, magnesium, potassium, manganese), herbal compounds (including ginsenosides, Pycnogenol), and drugs (such as ibuprofen, diclofenac, rifampicin, ampicillin, tetracycline, vasicine, pyrazinamide, fexofenadine, resveratrol, epigallocatechin, curcumin).

    Fun fact, the bioenhancing property of piperine was first utilized in the treatment of tuberculosis in human. Piperine was found to increase the bioavailability of rifampicin by about 60% and hence reduce the dose from 450 to 200mg.

  • Ginger Extract (high in gingerols). It acts synergistically with piperine. It contains Gingerol which facilitates better absorption by regulating GI tract function. The effective dose of the bioenhancer extract is in the range of 10- 30 mg/kg body weight.

  • Gingerol obtained from ginger acts by promoting intestinal activity, drugs that can be bioenhanced using gingerol includes methotrxate, vitamin A, Azithromycin, cephalexin, cefadroxil, amoxicillin, cloxacillin, rifampicin, ethionamide, ketoconazol, zidovudine, pefloxacin, erythromycin and 5-FU.

  • Naringin. This is flavanoid obtain in grapefruit, apples, onion and tea. It exhibits pharmacological actions like anti-oxidant, anti-ulcer, anti-allergic and blood lipid lowering. Naringin is capable of inhibiting intestinal CYP3A4, CYP3A1, CYP3A2, P-gp and thus acts as a bioenhancer. Since it’s capable of inhibiting P-gp and CYP3A4 this results in decreased drug dose and increased plasmadrug concentration.

  • Cinnamon because of cinnamaldehyde. In vivo studies have shown that oral administration of cinnamaldehyde reduces lipid accumulation, have insulinotropic action in STZ-induced diabetic rats and have potent antihyperglycemic action. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2018.00893/full

  • Maybe I would add capsaicin, but in the past every time I tried combining capsaicin and bioperine, my stomach didn’t like it too much, the burning sensation of capsaicin was way to intensified… on the edge about that one. Probably would leave it out.
I would remove:
  • Black cumin (Cuminum cyminum). Although, its active principle content luteolin shows synergistic effect with piperine and ginger, I’d remove it because it’s been reported to be estrogenic. Would be great in a blend for older women though.

  • Aloe, although it is an important source of phytochemicals I wouldn’t really use it in sport supplements such as pre-workout, stimulants, etc., but definitely would in topical fat burners, skincare, multivitamins, nutricosmetics and nutriceuticals as it’s been shown to increase and improve the absorption of both the vitamin C and E. The absorption is slower and vitamins last longer in the plasma with aloes and increase the bioavailability of Vitamin C and E in human. It is also capable of inhibiting the release of reactive oxygen free radicals from activated human neutrophils. A very interesting bioehencer though, definitely needs more research.
All that said though, note there are plenty of other bioenhancers out there (e.g., Allicin, Quercetin, turmeric, Genistein, etc.), I just haven’t tried them so I can’t really comment. Bioehencers are pretty interesting compounds, but two advices I’d give 1) if you’re taking any meds be extremely careful, 2) also be extremely careful when It comes to mixing various bioehencers with stimulants (in my early 20s, I learned that the hard way… felt the effects of ECP stack for a whole 8 hour shift at work…).

Here's some more info about differerent types of bioenhancers:
Related - It would be cool to see literature that looked at bioperine + AstraGin together.
 
sns8778

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Would a non-stimulant appetite suppressant be feasible? I know Lean Edge helps with appetite but I am wondering if the formula would be different if focused on that?
Lean Edge is great for appetite control and is a great comprehensive stimulant free fat burner.

Most people that want appetite control are trying to burn fat, so Lean Edge would be what they are looking for.

If we were to do something focused on appetite control alone, I could see where we could go with a few different options, if the goal was maximum fat loss, I think it would be something you would take with Lean Edge, not in place of it.

For some people, Garcinia Cambogia (w/ 60% Hydroxycitric Acid) is a great appetite suppressant. We make one of these and some people do stack it with Lean Edge.

I'm curious - did you have any particular ingredients in mind?
 
sns8778

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I’m a bit late to the party, but let me throw in my 2 cents. Something I’ve noticed over the year that’s lacking in the supplement industry is a SUPER bioenhancer – yes, you’ve read that right a SUPER bioenhancer – not just one bioenhancer like BioPerine. Couple years ago, before it was discontinued I used to order this super blend bioenhancer from Germany (ResoMax from ZeinPharma). Sadly, it was discontinued… I’ve been making my own blend for about 4-5 years now which consists of: naringin, bioperine, ginger (standardized 20% gingerols) and Ceylon cinnamon,

By no means am I discrediting BioPerine, but imagine if the bioavailability of your supplements could be even more enhanced and the effects even more pronounced. Moreover, different bioenhancers have different effects on the body and some have been shown to work synergistically with bioperine. Note, I don’t know how successful it would be on the market as it seems that not too many people are into bioenhancers (mainly due to unawareness I think).

View attachment 203165

I would personally bring some changes to the blend though:

I would keep the following ingredients:
  • Bioperine of course. It acts as bioenhancer to vitamins (A, B1, B2, B6, C, D, E, K), amino acids (lysine, isoleucine, leucine, threonine, valine, tryptophan, phenylalanine, and methionine), minerals (iodine, calcium, iron, zinc, copper, selenium, magnesium, potassium, manganese), herbal compounds (including ginsenosides, Pycnogenol), and drugs (such as ibuprofen, diclofenac, rifampicin, ampicillin, tetracycline, vasicine, pyrazinamide, fexofenadine, resveratrol, epigallocatechin, curcumin).

    Fun fact, the bioenhancing property of piperine was first utilized in the treatment of tuberculosis in human. Piperine was found to increase the bioavailability of rifampicin by about 60% and hence reduce the dose from 450 to 200mg.

  • Ginger Extract (high in gingerols). It acts synergistically with piperine. It contains Gingerol which facilitates better absorption by regulating GI tract function. The effective dose of the bioenhancer extract is in the range of 10- 30 mg/kg body weight.

  • Gingerol obtained from ginger acts by promoting intestinal activity, drugs that can be bioenhanced using gingerol includes methotrxate, vitamin A, Azithromycin, cephalexin, cefadroxil, amoxicillin, cloxacillin, rifampicin, ethionamide, ketoconazol, zidovudine, pefloxacin, erythromycin and 5-FU.

  • Naringin. This is flavanoid obtain in grapefruit, apples, onion and tea. It exhibits pharmacological actions like anti-oxidant, anti-ulcer, anti-allergic and blood lipid lowering. Naringin is capable of inhibiting intestinal CYP3A4, CYP3A1, CYP3A2, P-gp and thus acts as a bioenhancer. Since it’s capable of inhibiting P-gp and CYP3A4 this results in decreased drug dose and increased plasmadrug concentration.

  • Cinnamon because of cinnamaldehyde. In vivo studies have shown that oral administration of cinnamaldehyde reduces lipid accumulation, have insulinotropic action in STZ-induced diabetic rats and have potent antihyperglycemic action. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2018.00893/full

  • Maybe I would add capsaicin, but in the past every time I tried combining capsaicin and bioperine, my stomach didn’t like it too much, the burning sensation of capsaicin was way to intensified… on the edge about that one. Probably would leave it out.
I would remove:
  • Black cumin (Cuminum cyminum). Although, its active principle content luteolin shows synergistic effect with piperine and ginger, I’d remove it because it’s been reported to be estrogenic. Would be great in a blend for older women though.

  • Aloe, although it is an important source of phytochemicals I wouldn’t really use it in sport supplements such as pre-workout, stimulants, etc., but definitely would in topical fat burners, skincare, multivitamins, nutricosmetics and nutriceuticals as it’s been shown to increase and improve the absorption of both the vitamin C and E. The absorption is slower and vitamins last longer in the plasma with aloes and increase the bioavailability of Vitamin C and E in human. It is also capable of inhibiting the release of reactive oxygen free radicals from activated human neutrophils. A very interesting bioehencer though, definitely needs more research.
All that said though, note there are plenty of other bioenhancers out there (e.g., Allicin, Quercetin, turmeric, Genistein, etc.), I just haven’t tried them so I can’t really comment. Bioehencers are pretty interesting compounds, but two advices I’d give 1) if you’re taking any meds be extremely careful, 2) also be extremely careful when It comes to mixing various bioehencers with stimulants (in my early 20s, I learned that the hard way… felt the effects of ECP stack for a whole 8 hour shift at work…).

Here's some more info about differerent types of bioenhancers:
Great post and information.

We use absorption enhancers in a lot of products. I think Bioperine is a great ingredient, as is AstraGin. Naringin is good also but really have to be careful with taking it on certain medications. I would be open to doing a blend of those + Cinnamon and Gingerols if we could find the proper extracts.

The only way I'd do Capsaicin with it would be if it were Capsimax because that's so much easier on the stomach than regular Cayenne. But the price on that would be too high to use in something like this.

I'm curious, how necessary do you feel like Cinnamon would be in something like this?
 

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Lean Edge is great for appetite control and is a great comprehensive stimulant free fat burner.

Most people that want appetite control are trying to burn fat, so Lean Edge would be what they are looking for.

If we were to do something focused on appetite control alone, I could see where we could go with a few different options, if the goal was maximum fat loss, I think it would be something you would take with Lean Edge, not in place of it.

For some people, Garcinia Cambogia (w/ 60% Hydroxycitric Acid) is a great appetite suppressant. We make one of these and some people do stack it with Lean Edge.

I'm curious - did you have any particular ingredients in mind?
Thanks for explaining. In full disclosure, I haven’t tried Lean Edge yet, but I intend to pretty soon. But over the years, I have eaten through all manner of thermogenics and I have realized that my appetite is the biggest impediment to my goals (especially when stress gets worse). I guess it is a willpower issue too. ECA works well for a couple of weeks but then the appetite suppression wears off. So if there was an appetite focused formula (potentially to stack with Lean Edge), Id be very interested.

Unfortunately, I don’t have thoughts on ingredients. I am not as knowledgeable on different ingredients as many here. Nicotine has also worked ok for me at times but I don’t imagine that would work in a supplement.
 

Lemon1992

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Great post and information.

We use absorption enhancers in a lot of products. I think Bioperine is a great ingredient, as is AstraGin. Naringin is good also but really have to be careful with taking it on certain medications. I would be open to doing a blend of those + Cinnamon and Gingerols if we could find the proper extracts.

The only way I'd do Capsaicin with it would be if it were Capsimax because that's so much easier on the stomach than regular Cayenne. But the price on that would be too high to use in something like this.

I'm curious, how necessary do you feel like Cinnamon would be in something like this?
In all honesty, a bioehencer blend without the cinnamon would do the job just fine. The main and only reason I kept cinnamon in my mix is for its insulin-regulating properties, but I could definitely go without it. Naringin + Bioperine + Ginger work great together! Note I use ceylon cinnamon.

That said though, since the Cinnamaldehyde component present in cinnamon increases insulin sensitivity while decreasing blood sugar, which supports losing weight and also activates thermogenesis, cinnamon perhaps would be a great bioehencer to add to a fat burner blend.
 
sns8778

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Thanks for explaining. In full disclosure, I haven’t tried Lean Edge yet, but I intend to pretty soon. But over the years, I have eaten through all manner of thermogenics and I have realized that my appetite is the biggest impediment to my goals (especially when stress gets worse). I guess it is a willpower issue too. ECA works well for a couple of weeks but then the appetite suppression wears off. So if there was an appetite focused formula (potentially to stack with Lean Edge), Id be very interested.

Unfortunately, I don’t have thoughts on ingredients. I am not as knowledgeable on different ingredients as many here. Nicotine has also worked ok for me at times but I don’t imagine that would work in a supplement.
Thank you.

Ingredient wise, stimulant products great for a lot of people. Some people find that they do start to get used to them after awhile and the appetite control effects aren't as pronounced. If you like stimulant fat burners, you should look at Thermagize XT.

I think that Lean Edge is a great product for overall fat loss and appetite control. It definitely helps suppress my appetite. To best explain it for me, it doesn't suppress it to where I can't eat but suppresses it to where I'm not hungry. So I can eat what I need to but I don't mess up and eat things that aren't planned.

Thermagize XT and Lean Edge can be stacked.

I'll do some research on other ingredients for this as well. Garcinia, which we already make is one of the most popular ones.
 

Lemon1992

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Would a non-stimulant appetite suppressant be feasible? I know Lean Edge helps with appetite but I am wondering if the formula would be different if focused on that?
I’ll chime in on that one. For those of you who were familiar with the LipidFX formulation by SciVation, you’ll see where I’m going with this post.

SciVation was definitely ahead of their time. The LipidFX formulation was truly amazing, so if I would be to formulate a non-stimulant fat loss supplement, I’d recreate their blend, but with some tweaking here and there.

LipidFX had the following:
  • TTA 1000mg
  • PhosphoLean 350mg (standardized to 24% OEA and 14% EGCG)
  • SEA 250mg
OEA and SEA decrease appetite = Consuming less calories leads to fat loss.
OEA and TTA activate PPAR-alpha = Activation of PPAR-alpha increase the rate and capacity of fat oxidation.


Great blend, but personally I’d make it even more potent by adding a few more components. Here are some of the factors that I’d take into consideration:

1) A compound that blocks α2 activation (i.e., an alpha-2 blocker). Blocking α2 allows for greater fat breakdown and also increases blood flow to fatty tissue, making it perfect for targeting stubborn fat. Berberine is a non-stimulant and has some weak alpha-receptor blocking effects. I’d use dihydroberberine. *** missing in LipidFX

2) A compound that increases the transportation of FFAs into the mitochondria and enhances fat oxidation (e.g., ALCAR). *** missing in LipidFX

3) A compound that inhibits COMT as doing so increases lipolysis (e.g., Green Tea Extract/EGCG). ** LipidFX got that part

4) PPAR agonists blend (proliferator-activated receptors):** LipidFX got that part
A bit of science for those unfamiliar with PPARs. There are three types of PPARs that have been identified: alpha (α), gamma (γ), and delta/beta (δ), when activated, they stimulate expression of genes involved in energy homeostasis, specifically the metabolism of glucose and fatty acids.

PPAR-α influences carbohydrate-lipid metabolism, thus regulating homeostasis and body mass. Experiments have shown that the activation of PPAR-D reduces weight gain, increases skeletal muscle metabolic rate and endurance, and improves insulin sensitivity. It was further found that the increase in PPAR-D expression suppresses atherogenic inflammation. PPARD also plays an important role in the differentiation and maturation of adipocytes. It controls the body's energy balance. Thus, this protein plays an important role in the control of body weight. So far, no studies have been conducted on gene doping with PPAR-D in humans or in animal models.

The alpha receptor is found in the liver. When it is activated, the liver burns more fat. The gamma receptor is mainly in fat cells. If it is stimulated, the fat cell stores fatty acids. The delta receptor is found in muscles. If that receptor is stimulated, then muscles burn more fat.

There are amazing PPAR out there. Since TTA can’t be found anymore on the market, I’d experiment with PPARs agonists such as L-BAIBA, sesamin, Isohumulones, trans-Tiliroside, Cyanidin 3-glucoside chloride.

5) I’d add some Bioehencers to potentiate the effects.


Note this post was longer, had to cut a bit, it got a bit too scientifical 😅
 
Last edited:
sns8778

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In all honesty, a bioehencer blend without the cinnamon would do the job just fine. The main and only reason I kept cinnamon in my mix is for its insulin-regulating properties, but I could definitely go without it. Naringin + Bioperine + Ginger work great together! Note I use ceylon cinnamon.

That said though, since the Cinnamaldehyde component present in cinnamon increases insulin sensitivity while decreasing blood sugar, which supports losing weight and also activates thermogenesis, cinnamon perhaps would be a great bioehencer to add to a fat burner blend.
I like cinnamon myself. My thought here is that we are talking about launching a product into a category that is so small, it almost doesn't exist. And the reason it doesn't is because not many people are interested in it; although I think that they should be. I am a fan of absorption enhancers and that's why we use them in a lot of our products. But to make this potentially work, we need a product like this to appeal to the broadest possibly customer base and while for most, cinnamon's insulin regulating properties would be considered a good thing, the word insulin scares a lot of the general customer base and I'm scared it might make some people avoid it.

In regards cinnamon and what you said in your second paragraph, I'll drop a hint that we're using cinnamon in an upcoming product very soon :)
 
sns8778

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I’ll chime in on that one. For those of you who were familiar with the LipidFX formulation by SciVation, you’ll see where I’m going with this post.

SciVation was definitely ahead of their time. The LipidFX formulation was truly amazing, so if I would be to formulate a non-stimulant fat loss supplement, I’d recreate their blend, but with some tweaking here and there.

LipidFX had the following:
  • TTA 1000mg
  • PhosphoLean 350mg (standardized to 24% OEA and 14% EGCG)
  • SEA 250mg
OEA and SEA decrease appetite = Consuming less calories leads to fat loss.
OEA and TTA activate PPAR-alpha = Activation of PPAR-alpha increase the rate and capacity of fat oxidation.


Great blend, but personally I’d make it even more potent by adding a few more components. Here are some of the factors that I’d take into consideration:

1) A compound that blocks α2 activation (i.e., an alpha-2 blocker). Blocking α2 allows for greater fat breakdown and also increases blood flow to fatty tissue, making it perfect for targeting stubborn fat. Berberine is a non-stimulant and has some weak alpha-receptor blocking effects. I’d use dihydroberberine. *** missing in LipidFX

2) A compound that increases the transportation of FFAs into the mitochondria and enhances fat oxidation (e.g., ALCAR). *** missing in LipidFX

3) A compound that inhibits COMT as doing so increases lipolysis (e.g., Green Tea Extract/EGCG). ** LipidFX got that part

4) PPAR agonists blend (proliferator-activated receptors):** LipidFX got that part
A bit of science for those unfamiliar with PPARs. There are three types of PPARs that have been identified: alpha (α), gamma (γ), and delta/beta (δ), when activated, they stimulate expression of genes involved in energy homeostasis, specifically the metabolism of glucose and fatty acids.

PPAR-α influences carbohydrate-lipid metabolism, thus regulating homeostasis and body mass. Experiments have shown that the activation of PPAR-D reduces weight gain, increases skeletal muscle metabolic rate and endurance, and improves insulin sensitivity. It was further found that the increase in PPAR-D expression suppresses atherogenic inflammation. PPARD also plays an important role in the differentiation and maturation of adipocytes. It controls the body's energy balance. Thus, this protein plays an important role in the control of body weight. So far, no studies have been conducted on gene doping with PPAR-D in humans or in animal models.

The alpha receptor is found in the liver. When it is activated, the liver burns more fat. The gamma receptor is mainly in fat cells. If it is stimulated, the fat cell stores fatty acids. The delta receptor is found in muscles. If that receptor is stimulated, then muscles burn more fat.

There are amazing PPAR out there. Since TTA can’t be found anymore on the market, I’d experiment with PPARs agonists such as L-BAIBA, sesamin, Isohumulones, trans-Tiliroside, Cyanidin 3-glucoside chloride.

5) I’d add some Bioehencers to potentiate the effects.


Note this post was longer, had to cut a bit, it got a bit too scientifical 😅
Great post.

I'm definitely interested in this as a product idea. I think it could be a unique approach to stimulant free fat loss.

What dosage of C3G would you have in mind? It's been awhile since I did reading up on that and when I did, it wasn't focused on any of its attributes related to this.

Also, for Isohumulones, is there any specific dose/standardization that you're thinking?
 
Last edited:
Beau

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I like cinnamon myself. My thought here is that we are talking about launching a product into a category that is so small, it almost doesn't exist. And the reason it doesn't is because not many people are interested in it; although I think that they should be. I am a fan of absorption enhancers and that's why we use them in a lot of our products. But to make this potentially work, we need a product like this to appeal to the broadest possibly customer base and while for most, cinnamon's insulin regulating properties would be considered a good thing, the word insulin scares a lot of the general customer base and I'm scared it might make some people avoid it.

In regards cinnamon and what you said in your second paragraph, I'll drop a hint that we're using cinnamon in an upcoming product very soon :)
FWIW - I mix naringin (powder), ginger extract (powder), and cinnamon (powder) together (and the combination sort of kills the strong narinigin and ginger tastes) and take it with bioperine (pill) to enhance absorption/assimilation. I have thought about adding betaine HCL (capsule) - but I don't know if that would help or hurt.
 
sns8778

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FWIW - I mix naringin (powder), ginger extract (powder), and cinnamon (powder) together (and the combination sort of kills the strong narinigin and ginger tastes) and take it with bioperine (pill) to enhance absorption/assimilation. I have thought about adding betaine HCL (capsule) - but I don't know if that would help or hurt.
Thanks. That's good to know.

I'm seriously considering doing an absorption enhancement capsule. I wanted to do one in the past but doubted enough people would be interested in it.
 

ironkill

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I’ll chime in on that one. For those of you who were familiar with the LipidFX formulation by SciVation, you’ll see where I’m going with this post.

SciVation was definitely ahead of their time. The LipidFX formulation was truly amazing, so if I would be to formulate a non-stimulant fat loss supplement, I’d recreate their blend, but with some tweaking here and there.

LipidFX had the following:
  • TTA 1000mg
  • PhosphoLean 350mg (standardized to 24% OEA and 14% EGCG)
  • SEA 250mg
OEA and SEA decrease appetite = Consuming less calories leads to fat loss.
OEA and TTA activate PPAR-alpha = Activation of PPAR-alpha increase the rate and capacity of fat oxidation.


Great blend, but personally I’d make it even more potent by adding a few more components. Here are some of the factors that I’d take into consideration:

1) A compound that blocks α2 activation (i.e., an alpha-2 blocker). Blocking α2 allows for greater fat breakdown and also increases blood flow to fatty tissue, making it perfect for targeting stubborn fat. Berberine is a non-stimulant and has some weak alpha-receptor blocking effects. I’d use dihydroberberine. *** missing in LipidFX

2) A compound that increases the transportation of FFAs into the mitochondria and enhances fat oxidation (e.g., ALCAR). *** missing in LipidFX

3) A compound that inhibits COMT as doing so increases lipolysis (e.g., Green Tea Extract/EGCG). ** LipidFX got that part

4) PPAR agonists blend (proliferator-activated receptors):** LipidFX got that part
A bit of science for those unfamiliar with PPARs. There are three types of PPARs that have been identified: alpha (α), gamma (γ), and delta/beta (δ), when activated, they stimulate expression of genes involved in energy homeostasis, specifically the metabolism of glucose and fatty acids.

PPAR-α influences carbohydrate-lipid metabolism, thus regulating homeostasis and body mass. Experiments have shown that the activation of PPAR-D reduces weight gain, increases skeletal muscle metabolic rate and endurance, and improves insulin sensitivity. It was further found that the increase in PPAR-D expression suppresses atherogenic inflammation. PPARD also plays an important role in the differentiation and maturation of adipocytes. It controls the body's energy balance. Thus, this protein plays an important role in the control of body weight. So far, no studies have been conducted on gene doping with PPAR-D in humans or in animal models.

The alpha receptor is found in the liver. When it is activated, the liver burns more fat. The gamma receptor is mainly in fat cells. If it is stimulated, the fat cell stores fatty acids. The delta receptor is found in muscles. If that receptor is stimulated, then muscles burn more fat.

There are amazing PPAR out there. Since TTA can’t be found anymore on the market, I’d experiment with PPARs agonists such as L-BAIBA, sesamin, Isohumulones, trans-Tiliroside, Cyanidin 3-glucoside chloride.

5) I’d add some Bioehencers to potentiate the effects.


Note this post was longer, had to cut a bit, it got a bit too scientifical 😅
Youve made some good posts in this thread. Cheers
 

Lemon1992

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Great post and information.

We use absorption enhancers in a lot of products. I think Bioperine is a great ingredient, as is AstraGin. Naringin is good also but really have to be careful with taking it on certain medications. I would be open to doing a blend of those + Cinnamon and Gingerols if we could find the proper extracts.

The only way I'd do Capsaicin with it would be if it were Capsimax because that's so much easier on the stomach than regular Cayenne. But the price on that would be too high to use in something like this.

I'm curious, how necessary do you feel like Cinnamon would be in something like this?
It always surprised me that not many people are aware of or interested in bioenhancers. If people knew how much they could improve the efficacy of their supplements and see BETTER and FASTER results simply by adding bioenhancers…

With regard to insulin, it’s shame that many people lose their s**t just by reading or hearing that word… Insulin gets a bad rap, but it plays a huge role in metabolism. If only more people understood that insulin is an anabolic hormone, meaning it helps the body to build complex molecules… Knowing how to tweak and control insulin does wonders.

Looking forward to what you’ve got coming for us!!!

P.S. here are some excerpts on each compounds from a book I've bookmarked (The Athlete's Guide to Sports Supplements).
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Lemon1992

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Great post.

I'm definitely interested in this as a product idea. I think it could be a unique approach to stimulant free fat loss.

What dosage of C3G would you have in mind? It's been awhile since I did reading up on that and when I did, it wasn't focused on any of its attributes related to this.

Also, for Isohumulones, is there any specific dose/standardization that you're thinking?
just finished work. getting back to you on this after my workout
 
sns8778

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It always surprised me that not many people are aware of or interested in bioenhancers. If people knew how much they could improve the efficacy of their supplements and see BETTER and FASTER results simply by adding bioenhancers…

With regard to insulin, it’s shame that many people lose their s**t just by reading or hearing that word… Insulin gets a bad rap, but it plays a huge role in metabolism. If only more people understood that insulin is an anabolic hormone, meaning it helps the body to build complex molecules… Knowing how to tweak and control insulin does wonders.

Looking forward to what you’ve got coming for us!!!

P.S. here are some excerpts on each compounds from a book I've bookmarked (The Athlete's Guide to Sports Supplements).
View attachment 203199
View attachment 203200
View attachment 203201
View attachment 203202
View attachment 203203
View attachment 203204
View attachment 203205
View attachment 203206
Thank you for the great info.

I think that Bioperine and AstraGin are definite inclusions.

Naringin I want to include but I have to double check something. I'm surprised that there really aren't any Naringin products out there now when there used to be. I want to make sure that there isn't an insurance exclusion related to it due to its ability to also increase absorption of prescriptions.

I remember the fist Naringin supplement I ever saw. It was by a company called Meritech back in the old ph days and they marketed it to enhance the absorption of ph's. They closed years ago but just a fun memory.

Ginger - the issue here is that for marketability, this product would need to be 1 capsule per dose. We could suggest using 1 capsule multiple times per day, but I think it needs to be 1 cap per dose. If you don't mind, could you post or pm me any information specific to absorption enhancement. The common gingerol percentages are 5% and 10% for capsule products.

Cinnamon - I'm still pretty decided against this bc of the insulin aspect. I do not think that is a bad aspect at all; I'm just worried it would negatively impact the marketability to the general public.

My thoughts thus far would be:

AstraGin - 25 to 50 mg.
Bioperine - 5 mg.
Naringin (if possible - TBD
Ginger (probably 10% gingerols) - TBD
 
sns8778

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Nutrabio already has Upsorb. 50 mg Astragin and 5mg bioperine.
True. And we use AstraGin and Bioperine in a lot of products ourselves. But the way I'm understanding the ideas being thrown around here is that the people that would like to see us make one would like for it to be more in it than just AstraGin and Bioperine. I had the idea for a product using those 2 before Nutrabio launched theirs; but I shelved the idea when they did.
 
MFTrainz

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I will 100% admit that previously I glanced over bio-enhancers and barely gave it a second thought. After doing some reading I would be very interested in a solid product launch of that nature
 
GQdaLEGEND

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I will 100% admit that previously I glanced over bio-enhancers and barely gave it a second thought. After doing some reading I would be very interested in a solid product launch of that nature
they can do wonder with great diet

sometimes i jump on epi plex only bc of bioperine lol
 
MFTrainz

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they can do wonder with great diet

sometimes i jump on epi plex only bc of bioperine lol
The store by me has a few Epi plex for like 24-25 each (half off). I just got another Mtest for like 17 bucks from there. You’re making me want to go back, add that in while I wait for SNS to formulate one
 
GQdaLEGEND

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The store by me has a few Epi plex for like 24-25 each (half off). I just got another Mtest for like 17 bucks from there. You’re making me want to go back, add that in while I wait for SNS to formulate one
haha thats an awesome stack .. great deals on them
i would run them .. @sns8778 designing supplement you can stack ( can always do half dose ) .. epiplex keep for workout days/aroud that time .. other bioenhancer keep for protein drinks if not meals ( it will do alot for them too )
 
sns8778

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The store by me has a few Epi plex for like 24-25 each (half off). I just got another Mtest for like 17 bucks from there. You’re making me want to go back, add that in while I wait for SNS to formulate one
That's interesting pricing bc that would be less than their cost. If you want to pm me who that is, I can confirm for you if they buy direct from us.
 
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Thanks for explaining. In full disclosure, I haven’t tried Lean Edge yet, but I intend to pretty soon. But over the years, I have eaten through all manner of thermogenics and I have realized that my appetite is the biggest impediment to my goals (especially when stress gets worse). I guess it is a willpower issue too. ECA works well for a couple of weeks but then the appetite suppression wears off. So if there was an appetite focused formula (potentially to stack with Lean Edge), Id be very interested.

Unfortunately, I don’t have thoughts on ingredients. I am not as knowledgeable on different ingredients as many here. Nicotine has also worked ok for me at times but I don’t imagine that would work in a supplement.
for me, one of the biggest appetite suppressants is actually yohimbine... the issue is the stim portion you mentioned tho so I doubt that would work for what you want.
 
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That's interesting pricing bc that would be less than their cost. If you want to pm me who that is, I can confirm for you if they buy direct from us.
It’s local, they don’t sell much CEL so they’re trying to get rid of it I was told. Their parent company/online shop buys direct I’m pretty sure. I got my glycophase and AE regular price from them.

Side note: got my KannaEase for PCT. will be cycling that with KSM-66 for mood and cognitive function
 

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for me, one of the biggest appetite suppressants is actually yohimbine... the issue is the stim portion you mentioned tho so I doubt that would work for what you want.
Thank you for the recommendation. I am not opposed to stimulants (I was actually hoping for something I could take with stimulants); however, I get terrible anxiety from yohimbine.
 
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It’s local, they don’t sell much CEL so they’re trying to get rid of it I was told. Their parent company/online shop buys direct I’m pretty sure. I got my glycophase and AE regular price from them.

Side note: got my KannaEase for PCT. will be cycling that with KSM-66 for mood and cognitive function
Thanks. I love KannaEase myself.
 
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Thank you for the recommendation. I am not opposed to stimulants (I was actually hoping for something I could take with stimulants); however, I get terrible anxiety from yohimbine.
I can't take regular Yohimbine myself but I can take Alpha Yohimbine (Rauwolscine).
We make both types - Yohimbine 2.5 and Alpha Yohimbine.

If you like stimulants, you should look into Thermagize XT if you can take Rauwolscine. It is great for energy, fat loss, and appetite control:

We just put up a stack earlier today with a special price for Thermagize XT and Lean Edge for anyone wanting to stack them:

If you can't take Rauwolscine or want a milder product than Thermagize XT, Muscle Addictions ECA Stack (Eria/Caffeine/Aframomum) is good for appetite control as well. Code anabolicminds20 saves you 20% on it.
Here's a link:

Here are links for anyone that wants to try either our Alpha Yohimbine caps or our Yohimbine 2.5 caps:

SNS - Alpha Yohimbine - 1.5 mg. per capsule - 90 caps per bottle:

SNS Yohimbine 2.5 - 2.5 mg. per capsule - 100 caps per bottle:
 
MFTrainz

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I have an idea and I could be wrong but I think there could be a type of market for it.
I don’t know exactly what blend of herbs you could use, but like a “nighttime nootropic” in a flavored powder.
Something to promote restful sleep, calm, enhance mindfulness, etc.
It would be nice to have something to wind down after a long day (before it gets mentioned lol I don’t drink alcohol), and get the body and mind ready for bed and the next work/training day.
 
sns8778

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I have an idea and I could be wrong but I think there could be a type of market for it.
I don’t know exactly what blend of herbs you could use, but like a “nighttime nootropic” in a flavored powder.
Something to promote restful sleep, calm, enhance mindfulness, etc.
It would be nice to have something to wind down after a long day (before it gets mentioned lol I don’t drink alcohol), and get the body and mind ready for bed and the next work/training day.
I love nootropics so I'm always open to ideas.

Ironically, this idea seems similar to one that I'm supposed to receive flavor samples on this week. It's a formula that is mainly to promote relaxation and restful sleep. I'm not sure how the enhanced mindfulness aspect would be involved though since it would relaxing you towards sleep. If you mean helping calm the mind down to stop it from racing that's one of the goals of the product.

It's so funny that you mentioned this. We had flavor samples on this completed and then bc of Covid backups switched places that we have some flavored powders done and had to start flavor samples from scratch and are supposed to be getting them this week. I hope they are as good as our first round of them because those were fantastic.
 
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I love nootropics so I'm always open to ideas.

Ironically, this idea seems similar to one that I'm supposed to receive flavor samples on this week. It's a formula that is mainly to promote relaxation and restful sleep. I'm not sure how the enhanced mindfulness aspect would be involved though since it would relaxing you towards sleep. If you mean helping calm the mind down to stop it from racing that's one of the goals of the product.

It's so funny that you mentioned this. We had flavor samples on this completed and then bc of Covid backups switched places that we have some flavored powders done and had to start flavor samples from scratch and are supposed to be getting them this week. I hope they are as good as our first round of them because those were fantastic.
That’s a better way to put it - calming the mind. Enhance the ability to control it and really calm it if it’s been a stressful day.
So wait, this is coming out? I will buy this drink mix the day it’s released and log it. Please tell me soon
 
sns8778

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That’s a better way to put it - calming the mind. Enhance the ability to control it and really calm it if it’s been a stressful day.
So wait, this is coming out? I will buy this drink mix the day it’s released and log it. Please tell me soon
How soon it will be out depends on how the flavor samples turn out this week. If they are able to match the ones we had done at the other place, it should be ready to move forward. But if we have to do revisions on the flavors, that takes awhile. The odds of it being right the first try is probably slim honestly. But lets hope.

It will be marketed as a sleep and relaxation product but I think it will do exactly what you're looking for. I loved the results from it on the original samples.

I want to clarify too that this is not the sleep product that I mentioned that we are doing. They will be similar but that one is a capsule product.
 
MFTrainz

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How soon it will be out depends on how the flavor samples turn out this week. If they are able to match the ones we had done at the other place, it should be ready to move forward. But if we have to do revisions on the flavors, that takes awhile. The odds of it being right the first try is probably slim honestly. But lets hope.

It will be marketed as a sleep and relaxation product but I think it will do exactly what you're looking for. I loved the results from it on the original samples.

I want to clarify too that this is not the sleep product that I mentioned that we are doing. They will be similar but that one is a capsule product.
I am 100% hoping at least one flavor would be ready to move forward. I want to give you my money now
 
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I am 100% hoping at least one flavor would be ready to move forward. I want to give you my money now
Ha. Thank you. Honestly, this is one that I want really bad myself. But its important that we get the flavors really good on these because with general health items, we need to hit a wider audience with them and that audience is much more flavor picky. We had them perfect before we had to change the place running it so hopefully it won't be too hard to get it right again.

The flavors, if they go the way I want them to, will be pretty unique too.

This is actually a project that means a lot to me on a personal level because the samples of the first round of flavor samples that I gave out really seemed to help some people and I want to get it available as soon as we can.
 
Beau

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Ha. Thank you. Honestly, this is one that I want really bad myself. But its important that we get the flavors really good on these because with general health items, we need to hit a wider audience with them and that audience is much more flavor picky. We had them perfect before we had to change the place running it so hopefully it won't be too hard to get it right again.

The flavors, if they go the way I want them to, will be pretty unique too.

This is actually a project that means a lot to me on a personal level because the samples of the first round of flavor samples that I gave out really seemed to help some people and I want to get it available as soon as we can.
If you haven't already, I would suggest that you consider adding a very bioavailable form of Magnesium to the mix.
 

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Maybe it’s just me but I am gobsmacked at how much people care about flavours in powdered drink supplements. I reckon it needs to be enough to be able to chug down concoctions of what are mostly strong extracts including bitter alkaloids and other goodies, then get on with things! If you want a nice tasting beverage, go and drink a nice tasting beverage. But again I’m sure plenty of other people see it differently.
 
MFTrainz

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Maybe it’s just me but I am gobsmacked at how much people care about flavours in powdered drink supplements. I reckon it needs to be enough to be able to chug down concoctions of what are mostly strong extracts including bitter alkaloids and other goodies, then get on with things! If you want a nice tasting beverage, go and drink a nice tasting beverage. But again I’m sure plenty of other people see it differently.
I would agree with you on most fronts. But a drink product made specifically to help you relax at night probably won’t benefit from a cringe-making flavor ya know?
I know personally, I could see myself sitting there at the end of the day sipping on the concoction and letting the mellow happen. I would much prefer that to be in the form of deliciousness than have it taste like @ss
 
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Maybe it’s just me but I am gobsmacked at how much people care about flavours in powdered drink supplements. I reckon it needs to be enough to be able to chug down concoctions of what are mostly strong extracts including bitter alkaloids and other goodies, then get on with things! If you want a nice tasting beverage, go and drink a nice tasting beverage. But again I’m sure plenty of other people see it differently.
I assume you have never had GET DIESEL "READY4WAR" "NEUTRAL FLAVOR" then. lol. May have to travel back in time to 2005 but...

Bring on the flavors.
 
GQdaLEGEND

GQdaLEGEND

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I assume you have never had GET DIESEL "READY4WAR" "NEUTRAL FLAVOR" then. lol. May have to travel back in time to 2005 but...

Bring on the flavors.
only muscle tech knew how to flavor back then ( added like 100g of sugar ) lol
 

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