Swole 2.0

I've just recently jumped on the citrulline malate train. Vascularity and pump is awesome at 7.5g for me
 
I like the profile but the cit mal seems way under dosed. You usually see at least 3g to see impact unless your ratio is way diff then the standard 1:1 or 2:1
 
CNPWayne said:
It will be way higher in whole 2.0. So that has already been taken care of.
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and I will be purchasing in that case ha. What about something like HICA to help with muscle sparing?
 
take out norvaline
add in COP at 1g (not 500mg)
add gms or potassium nitrate, not both.
add in HICA at 750mg minimum
add in yohimbe alkaloids to help with pump.
citrulline malate at minimum 6g.
 
Hey guys-

I thought I'd address a couple of the suggestions here to start a dialogue. So you know, before we formulated this, I researched all of the top selling pump products and their ingredients, and I've actually had multiple conversations with Wayne trying to keep GMS out of Swole, because I think it's worthless. As you guys know, I'm all about research and not about bull****, and I don't want anyone thinking we're padding our products with bunk. That's not to bag on iForce- they're cool guys and I love their stuff. I just don't like the science on Hemavol.

Regarding the addition of glycerol monostearate (GMS):

Short Version- Glycerol and glycerol monostearate are not the same substance. The former is a sugar and the latter is a fat; they work on different metabolic pathways; there's no science to support the use of glycerol monostearate.

Long version- As many of you know, I am a massive proponent of the use of glycerol for cell volumization, and it's certain that information causes our reluctance to put glycerol monostearate into Swole to seem odd. There is logic behind my recommendation against GMS, though. GMS (glycerine monostearate) is not the same, chemically, as glycerol, and there is no scientific support whatsoever to suggest that glycerol monostearate affects plasma explansion or hydration in the same way glycerol does.

Unlike glycerol, which is a simple polyol or sugar alcohol, glycerol monostearate is structurally a monoglyceride. Glycerol is a humectant used in laxatives, cosmetics, and by bodybuilders due to its high hygroscopic and hyperosmotic properties- it pulls water into the bloodstream and cells as long as it's in the system. Glycerol monostearate, though, is glycerol attached to a fatty acid, and though it also is a emulsifier (and holds water), there hasn't been any testing done in the body to see if this same property holds true once in the bloodstream. It is hygroscopic, but it seems to only be mildly hyperosmotic- you can tell anecdotally by the fact that it "may" have a "mild" laxative effect, whereas glycerol will straight up make you poop your pants if you swallow enough. This is why glycerol is used in laxatives.

Glycerol itself, as a small molecule, easily stays in solution and holds water, but GMS has that whole long chain fat on the side that actually makes it a better emulsifier. From what I can see online, reviews on GMS seem mixed. Some people seem to think it works, but there's no science to support their claims.

From what we can see here at Chaos and Pain HQ, once GMS is in the bloodstream it's quickly taken up as a fatty acid and digested as a fatty acid, rather than the body letting it sit around and hold water. If you guys can provide some evidence to the contrary, we will happily put it in tere, but I am going to need some convincing. "Because I said so" isn't going to fly, haha.

As for adding saltpeter to Swole, I can honestly say I laughed out loud at the thought. I argued the use of fenugreek in iForce's test booster with their head formulator over its estrogenic properties, and had I known that they were putting saltpeter in their pump products, I probably would have accused him of working a backdoor deal for whoever makes Viagra. For those of you who don't know, it was long thought that the military put saltpeter into the food to kill libido and make erections difficult. Kind of like GMS, there's no science to support anaphrodesiac properties in saltpeter, it's just about one of the longest-standing urban legends about supplements of all time.

I see why it's in Hemavol, but as I've said before, NO products do not increase performance except in untrained athletes. Therefore, potassium nitrate is a worthless additive, unless you guys just want it added for improved vascularity. I've found, however, that topical products work far better for that- Hot Stuff is the thing most bodybuilders seem to use. Most vascular dude I've ever seen used to put this stuff on before every workout: Invalid Link Removed

I'm down for discussion, and if popular opinion prevails, so be it. Let's hear why we should include that stuff.

ROUND TWO.

FIGHT!
 
EBF_2356 said:
take out norvaline
add in COP at 1g (not 500mg)
add gms or potassium nitrate, not both.
add in HICA at 750mg minimum
add in yohimbe alkaloids to help with pump.
citrulline malate at minimum 6g.
Click to expand...

We wanted this to be stim free, so there won't be any yohimbe.

6g of Citrulline is going to basically make this an "L-Citrulline with other added random stuff product". I don't know of anyone who's putting that much L-Citrulline into anything... of course everyone else uses proprietary blends, so it's all a guessing game anyway.

Why take out norvaline?

HICA is a possibility.
 
booneman77 said:
and I will be purchasing in that case ha. What about something like HICA to help with muscle sparing?
Click to expand...

I'm not clear on why you'd need a muscle sparing additive for a pump product. HICA seems like it would be better utilized in a recovery product.
 
jamie you just proved my thoughts. I have no idea why should GMS dilate blood vessels. it's just a fat (glycerol+stearic acid). yet nitrates used in treating angina pectoris (like nitroglycerine) are glycerol derivatives, but with nitrogen, so no thoughts how addition of stearic acid to glycerol could dilate vessels. but one thing is interesting, I don't if it was a placebo effect, but supplements containing GMS gave me better pump. As for ingredients would be cool to see some beta-alanine >1.5gm and creatine mono 2.5 gm + higher doses of citrulline malate
 
blokpost said:
jamie you just proved my thoughts. I have no idea why should GMS dilate blood vessels. it's just a fat (glycerol+stearic acid). yet nitrates used in treating angina pectoris (like nitroglycerine) are glycerol derivatives, but with nitrogen, so no thoughts how addition of stearic acid to glycerol could dilate vessels. but one thing is interesting, I don't if it was a placebo effect, but supplements containing GMS gave me better pump. As for ingredients would be cool to see some beta-alanine >1.5gm and creatine mono 2.5 gm + higher doses of citrulline malate
Click to expand...

Glad I'm not the only one on the GMS.

Ahhh... the spectre of beta alanine again rears it's ugly head. I refuse to put in in there because it will ruin the stack with Ferox- beta alanine negates dendrobium's effects.

We're going to make it two scoops with 2g citrulline malate per scoop and COP 750 per scoop (COP is metabolized into creatine mono, hence the lower dose, as absorption rate plays a much reduced role).
 
CNPJamie said:
I'm not clear on why you'd need a muscle sparing additive for a pump product. HICA seems like it would be better utilized in a recovery product.
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Its not that you "need" it for pump prod, it serves no pump purpose. I'm just looking at it from a "if I were to take one (non-stim) product pre-workout, what would I want"
 
booneman77 said:
Its not that you "need" it for pump prod, it serves no pump purpose. I'm just looking at it from a "if I were to take one (non-stim) product pre-workout, what would I want"
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Gotcha. I think HICA will be held back for recovery, but we'll keep it in mind. Thanks for the reply!
 
blokpost said:
jamie you just proved my thoughts. I have no idea why should GMS dilate blood vessels. it's just a fat (glycerol+stearic acid). yet nitrates used in treating angina pectoris (like nitroglycerine) are glycerol derivatives, but with nitrogen, so no thoughts how addition of stearic acid to glycerol could dilate vessels. but one thing is interesting, I don't if it was a placebo effect, but supplements containing GMS gave me better pump. As for ingredients would be cool to see some beta-alanine >1.5gm and creatine mono 2.5 gm + higher doses of citrulline malate
Click to expand...
If you have a gram of agmatine and you can't get a crippling pumping you are probably lifting in the fisher price section because that stuff is magic!!!
 
For what it's worth.

I love Swole as it is, and only really bought it because I wanted to try it for fun, never have been interesting in pump products and thought it'd be gay and useless.

Turns out its probably one of my fave CNP products, seriously, I love it and get sick pumps.
Green Apple is the **** and tastes **** good too.

I love stacking it with Ferox and/or Genius.

Edit: I'm all for 'making it stronger', i suppose. But I think it's sick as is and think it'd suck if **** got taken out.
 
Everyone can argue back and forth on Pump products, some people like them, others dont, oh well. Its the same with all supplements. I for one, love pump products, they are fun as **** to use when working out, PUMP ADDICT! As long as you keep that gram of agmatine, add whatever else.
 
AddledCorpse said:
For what it's worth.
]

Edit: I'm all for 'making it stronger', i suppose. But I think it's sick as is and think it'd suck if **** got taken out.
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No need to worry about that. We're not Gaspari, bro.
 
AddledCorpse said:
For what it's worth.

I love Swole as it is, and only really bought it because I wanted to try it for fun, never have been interesting in pump products and thought it'd be gay and useless.

Turns out its probably one of my fave CNP products, seriously, I love it and get sick pumps.
Green Apple is the **** and tastes **** good too.

I love stacking it with Ferox and/or Genius.

Edit: I'm all for 'making it stronger', i suppose. But I think it's sick as is and think it'd suck if **** got taken out.
Click to expand...
No ingredient will be taken out haha! We are simple looking to make it stronger and more awesome!
 
CNPWayne said:
No ingredient will be taken out haha! We are simple looking to make it stronger and more awesome!
Click to expand...

Sick.

Cuz otherwise I was gonna fly over from Aust and load up on Ferox (after purchasing some more off you guys at CNP),
And start 'taking' **** out myself. People.

Yeah.
 
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