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Supplement Companies to Avoid

LiveToLift said:
I ? you buddy. :)
How the name change? Maybe I don't scope out the latest features on this site but didn't realize you could do that.
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I dont think you can except by PMing admin with a reason
 
EricMarchewitz said:
I think with the Duracap/Prime fiasco it's important to make sure that we know where places are getting their stuff made. I do trust Hi-Tech because I have toured their lab and facilities.

I don't think it is out of line to ask a company where they get their stuff produced. Especially when it comes to things like amino acids and proteins.
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It's not out of line to ask where a company gets their stuff from, but most won't tell you unfortunately...
 
LiveToLift said:
I �� you buddy. :)
How the name change? Maybe I don't scope out the latest features on this site but didn't realize you could do that.
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Luv u long time as well lol

My other account was banned bc I said "pm me" in supplement auction thread .. I was told no hormonals

While everyone else is selling 1,4 andros & they mamma.. typical Shyt I go through
 
GQdaLEGEND said:
Luv u long time as well lol

My other account was banned bc I said "pm me" in supplement auction thread .. I was told no hormonals

While everyone else is selling 1,4 andros & they mamma.. typical Shyt I go through
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I just knew we always had a thing. ?

Interesting brother. Well glad you are still around. Wouldn't be the same with out some gq.
 
Driven2lift said:
This.

Rules out 95% of products on shelves for me.


Also some food for thought;
People "trusting" some of these companies don't have the slightest idea what is going on with raw material sourcing, quality testing, and production methods. Zero idea. But good reps give a good company image and it gets looked past.

No I will not elaborate, far too many conflicts of interest. Just be as educated and informed as you can be
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well said....that's why I live by the stone cold steve Austin rule "don't trust anybody".....sure there is some companies who I've never been let down by, but unless your in the offices, no one knows whats going on behind closed doors
 
Chaos and Pain stays true to there word and their products are legit. No proprietary blends and you actually feel there products work and see results. 2 weeks into their predator product and cannibal claw I lost some fat and started getting vascular in my core. Definitely great results
 
Jiigzz said:
While true, USPlabs had stopped manufacturing Oxyelite waaay before the scandal hit. Batch codes didn't match records and were one of the most counterfeited brands at the time (and still are).

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Didn't it have to do with the formula that didn't contain DMAA in it?

Either way, too many scandals for me to ever consider them again.
 
Clipper83 said:
Didn't it have to do with the formula that didn't contain DMAA in it?

Either way, too many scandals for me to ever consider them again.
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Fair call.
 
fitfreak_CP said:
Chaos and Pain stays true to there word and their products are legit. No proprietary blends and you actually feel there products work and see results. 2 weeks into their predator product and cannibal claw I lost some fat and started getting vascular in my core. Definitely great results
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Does fitfreak CP stand for Chaos and Pain? :D
 
fitfreak_CP said:
Or does it? Who knows....why?
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Because usually when someone advocates a company as you did above they are associated

Not always, but with CP in your name it's a fair guess to make

Update: also just saw you link them and provide a code
 
Clipper83 said:
Didn't it have to do with the formula that didn't contain DMAA in it?

Either way, too many scandals for me to ever consider them again.
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One thing I'll give to Jacob, and he knew I was a skeptic on old forums, is he ALWAYS let me try and run logs on his products, unaffiliated, on lots of things they offered. I did the original Jacked (when it was Jacked, not Jack3d), Prime, Anabolic Pump, PowerFULL, and maybe Recreate..always sent them free and sent like a 2 months supply.

I DO believe Anabolic Pump worked great. Jack3d obviously. Prime didn't do chit. PowerFull was decent.
 
TommyTuffGuy said:
One thing I'll give to Jacob, and he knew I was a skeptic on old forums, is he ALWAYS let me try and run logs on his products, unaffiliated, on lots of things they offered. I did the original Jacked (when it was Jacked, not Jack3d), Prime, Anabolic Pump, PowerFULL, and maybe Recreate..always sent them free and sent like a 2 months supply.

I DO believe Anabolic Pump worked great. Jack3d obviously. Prime didn't do chit. PowerFull was decent.
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I trust Usp Labs now more than most companies on the market.

Can't even begin to list all the products I've purchased that are underweight by scoop or short on caps.
 
TommyTuffGuy said:
One thing I'll give to Jacob, and he knew I was a skeptic on old forums, is he ALWAYS let me try and run logs on his products, unaffiliated, on lots of things they offered. I did the original Jacked (when it was Jacked, not Jack3d), Prime, Anabolic Pump, PowerFULL, and maybe Recreate..always sent them free and sent like a 2 months supply.

I DO believe Anabolic Pump worked great. Jack3d obviously. Prime didn't do chit. PowerFull was decent.
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I still own an OG tub of JACK3D and it was always spelled this way.
 
TheMovement said:
I still own an OG tub of JACK3D and it was always spelled this way.
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Correct it has for sure always been jack3d.
I also saw someone on my fb posting that they are selling the original formula right now. I'll be checking that out its always been a personal top pre.
 
LiveToLift said:
Correct it has for sure always been jack3d.
I also saw someone on my fb posting that they are selling the original formula right now. I'll be checking that out its always been a personal top pre.
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Was it called 'Ol Jack or something to that effect? Had some guy telling me about it at the gym yesterday. Claimed it was the original Jack3d formula
 
Hmm, well Genone Laboratories has/had their 'Oldjack' pre-workout that was essentially a knockoff of the original Jack3d.
 
Young Gotti said:
nope it wasn't.....the original jack3d....had the E not the 3

the original spelling lasted a few months before they switched it

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Interesting. I used it for years when it came out and never saw one that had the e used but If like you are saying it was only in the first few months of production I could see how I missed that.
 
It was changed to Jack3d after a few months because there was already a preworkout using the name Jacked.
 
Young Gotti said:
nope it wasn't.....the original jack3d....had the E not the 3

the original spelling lasted a few months before they switched it

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HOLY MOLEE BATMAN!

I def. see how it was overlooked but even still it was the truth lol
 
TommyTuffGuy said:
No way. Unless you're either gas lighting me or there was a Mandela Effect occurrence, it was originally called JACKED. The 3D came later when they goofed it up.
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I know I always had the original formula matter of fact I don't think I've had but a sample of the new. They all were jack3d in text.
 
These threads are always interesting to me. Having inside knowledge of the industry vs the perception by consumers. For a load of legal reasons, I can't say much. Most consumers have zero clue if the brand they support is "legit". They just build a story that makes them ok with believing it.
 
1Fast400 said:
These threads are always interesting to me. Having inside knowledge of the industry vs the perception by consumers. For a load of legal reasons, I can't say much. Most consumers have zero clue if the brand they support is "legit". They just build a story that makes them ok with believing it.
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Exactly. You really have no reason to trust any company.
 
Everyone loves the story of small companies. I get it, we want to help the small guy out. The problem in this space, being compliant is a massive amount of work. My QC team is 4 full time people, a PHD and 2 with masters. It's non stop work, which surprises most people. We are a 1 sku company, Xtend. We don't make 60 sku's. If you think small brands are up to speed on compliance, it's just highly unlikely. There is a reason we're the only BCAA that exists that has NSF for sport and informed choice.

Most supplements are made by asking a manufacture if they can make X product. Manufacture quotes X product, company either buys or doesn't. To believe there is a lot of testing going on before/during/after that process in most cases, is just incorrect. People buying random hormones, do you think the company is sending it out to make sure whatever was sent over from china is actually what it's claimed?

A lot of supplement companies are ran out of offices. They are marketing companies. The idea of science is playing around on pub med and answering the 100's of emails that come in from random chinese suppliers. Who aren't even chinese suppliers in most cases, just brokers. Most companies weren't started by mensa applicants. They were started by hobbiest with 10k in their pocket who wanted to make a supplement. Now, here we are.
 
Any company whose products have a similar name to real aas. Like D-Boll, or Anvar. Or any that actually have the name of a steroid like D-bol© but have that trademark symbol after.. Lol
 
I still cant belive cahill put freaking DNP in products and sold it. Then came back with craze later. the thing was craze was number 1 seller EVERYWHERE,

All these companies that are at the top started sketchy and are just playing marketing now.

what happened to EAS?. from my understanding they were huge. In the 90's early 2000 it must have been so easy to profit off the margins in this business from what was actually being sold. Companies like muscletech took full advantage.


I trust most companies. Lately I've been getting into bed with some unknowns.
blackstone labs sketches me out, but I still try it.

the last I heard get into trouble was GAT. I think some of their products were spiked
 
1Fast400 said:
Everyone loves the story of small companies. I get it, we want to help the small guy out. The problem in this space, being compliant is a massive amount of work. My QC team is 4 full time people, a PHD and 2 with masters. It's non stop work, which surprises most people. We are a 1 sku company, Xtend. We don't make 60 sku's. If you think small brands are up to speed on compliance, it's just highly unlikely. There is a reason we're the only BCAA that exists that has NSF for sport and informed choice.

Most supplements are made by asking a manufacture if they can make X product. Manufacture quotes X product, company either buys or doesn't. To believe there is a lot of testing going on before/during/after that process in most cases, is just incorrect. People buying random hormones, do you think the company is sending it out to make sure whatever was sent over from china is actually what it's claimed?

A lot of supplement companies are ran out of offices. They are marketing companies. The idea of science is playing around on pub med and answering the 100's of emails that come in from random chinese suppliers. Who aren't even chinese suppliers in most cases, just brokers. Most companies weren't started by mensa applicants. They were started by hobbiest with 10k in their pocket who wanted to make a supplement. Now, here we are.
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Evening! I think you make some very valid points but I'd just like to offer a viewpoint from the other side.

First off, just want to give my respects to the Xtend line and their great success.

You are absolutely right that supplement companies are primarily marketing companies. The supplement industry is so saturated right now, you could have truly the best product on the market but with no marketing no one will know who you are and ultimately that generates zero sales. Even when you look at pharmaceutical companies, their marketing spend exceeds their R&D spend. Is this a bad thing? In an ideal world, it'd be great to have all your revenue be poured into R&D and QC. But the reality is that marketing generates sales, which increases revenue, which increases R&D spend. I can't really argue if it's "good" or "bad" that supplement companies are mostly marketing companies, but I think right now it's a necessity. If you want to be a successful supplement company in this market, you have to be a good marketing company; this we've seen time and time again.

To elaborate a little further, I think the days of successful supplement companies who are quote "hobbiest with 10k in their pocket who wanted to make a supplement" are gone. Yes, you can start a supplement company with that much, but it'll be very difficult to be successful without a much larger capital to run your marketing campaign.

For another point of view on the small versus big company in regards to product, each have their own pros and cons. Smaller companies are able to fill that niche of hardcore products better than larger companies. A lot of large companies don't want to touch DMAA, DMHA, Nootropics, etc for liability purposes. And there's no denying that an NSF certification is a major plus, but NSF isn't going to approve or certify products with DMAA. I apologize in advance if I have misinterpreted your post, but there seems to be a little bias against smaller companies (and full transparency I understand we're a small company too so we're bias as well ha). But I think there's a market and a niche for smaller companies to fill that bigger companies can't. Now, on the flip side, bigger companies have more revenue for compliance and QC. But you have to understand, a smaller company would not be able to support 4 full time staff dedicated to QC testing along with all the cost associated with your own independent testing. Now one might argue that "well in that case, you should only start a supplement company if you can afford all those cost". What this does is essentially creates a huge barrier for competition and limits new players to large entities which have a lot of money to invest. Limiting competition is usually not good for the consumer, look at the pharmaceutical/health insurance industry - the pricing is astronomical!

I think you have some good inside knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes, but at the same time I get a slight sense of fear mongering, which isn't necessarily fair. A lot of small and medium sized supplement companies are not going directly working with Chinese raw suppliers and are not "buying random hormones". The exception to this is research chemical/peptide and SERMS/SARMS companies. Most of these smaller companies don't have the ordering capacities to order directly from China. The manufacturers in the U.S. are able to buy say 10 tons of citrulline-malate, no way a small or medium sized company would be able to afford that cost. Now you can bet that is a manufacturer is buying 10 tons of a product, they're going to have it tested. Most small supplement companies run through these manufacturers because the cost ends up being the same or even cheaper than trying to source the raws themselves, blend it, and bottle it. So generally I would say that the idea of small/medium sized legitimate supplement companies contacting Chinese suppliers directly and not through a manufacture is not true. The same cannot be said about RC's, peptides, and SERMS/SARMS because those are ingredients US manufactures aren't going to touch.

Ultimately, there's a place for small companies and there's a place for big companies, both fill a particular niche within the supplement industry. I think to disregard small companies is not healthy for the industry because 1. the small guys of today could be the big guys of tomorrow and 2. competition breeds innovation and ingenuity.

And to re-iterate, I apologize in advance if I my post comes off as aggressive or as an attack, that is not my intentions at all. I respect your industry knowledge and experience, I just wanted to add some balance to the other side of the conversation as a smaller company.
 
1Fast400 said:
These threads are always interesting to me. Having inside knowledge of the industry vs the perception by consumers. For a load of legal reasons, I can't say much. Most consumers have zero clue if the brand they support is "legit". They just build a story that makes them ok with believing it.
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not starting an argument here, but for the most part, whenever you do respond, you always say, "I cant say much and most consumers have zero clue" why cant you say much? why don't you help educate the consumer? For as much business knowledge as you have and for being in this industry for such a long time, I believe many could learn a lot from you.

will the supplement industry fall apart like some Bernie Madoff scandal?
 
smith_69 said:
not starting an argument here, but for the most part, whenever you do respond, you always say, "I cant say much and most consumers have zero clue" why cant you say much? why don't you help educate the consumer? For as much business knowledge as you have and for being in this industry for such a long time, I believe many could learn a lot from you.

will the supplement industry fall apart like some Bernie Madoff scandal?
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Lawsuit
 
Afi140 said:
Lawsuit
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why would it be a lawsuit? doesn't have to give names or specifics, but this bland blanket statement- "lawsuits" doesn't solve anything
 
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