Suggestions for maintaining chest with rotator injury???

Jebrook

Jebrook

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What up everyone. I've been battling shoulder pain for what seems like years now. The pain radiates from the anterior of the shoulder joint mainly when flat pressing or any kind of external rotation movement. I've simply trained around the discomfort for too long now. Physical manipulation diagnosis tests always showed a strong and healthy shoulder but I pushed my doc for an MRI. It of course was inconclusive, but did indicate impingement syndrome or a tear of some sort. I declined the cortisone shot and will be scheduling an arthroscope ASAP. I know if impingement is the issue they can do an acromioplasty during the scope.

I haven't had the chance yet to speak to the doc about the scope. I was wondering what recovery from a simple shoulder scope is like in terms of time off work and healing and also the length of recovery for an acromioplasty? How about for a surgery to repair a serious tear? How bout recovery/rehab time for a minor tear that doesn't get surgery?

I also would like any input or experiences you guys may have with the recovery process. Were there any exercises anyone was able to do to prevent chest atrophy? Did you lose large amounts of muscle in the shoulder and chest or is it different than the atrophy from an immobile leg like during my ACL recovery. My leg was less than half its original size when that was done:(. Any insight at all is appreciated. I'm excited to get this fixed but apprehensive about the surgical/recovery process. Thanks.
 
Jebrook

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Let's hear some experiences. Also hopefully there's some PT guys in this list.

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Brandinooooo

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Subbed for info. I'm still dealing with mine.

As for the scope, its a really small cut and you don't even have to be put under so recovery time is pretty short. They gave me that as one of my options also. I have a torn rotator cuff + impingement and instability.
 
Jebrook

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I had some success relieving pain with BPC-157 but obviously not healing the shoulder completely. I think I will use BPC again after any procedures to expedite healing. Anybody have any experience with HGH for healing? I have access to pharmaceutical HGH.
 
Jebrook

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Subbed for info. I'm still dealing with mine.

As for the scope, its a really small cut and you don't even have to be put under so recovery time is pretty short. They gave me that as one of my options also. I have a torn rotator cuff + impingement and instability.
Sorry to hear that.
That sucks but probably similar to what I have. Any surgical options or just time off and rehab?
 
Brandinooooo

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Sorry to hear that.
That sucks but probably similar to what I have. Any surgical options or just time off and rehab?
Just the standard cuff surgery. They said 6 weeks recovery then 2 months PT. The scope is the better option imo.
 
Brandinooooo

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Did the scope help you any? Did they do any clean up while in there?
I haven't done it yet. I'm hoping it will. The thing thats stopping me is, my tendons are a little too long and the shoulder dislocates easily. To fully repair it, they'd have to sever the tendon, cut a chunk off and reattach. Atleast 6 month recovery....
 
Brandinooooo

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But lately, I restarted on all of my presses focusing on ROM. Especially on Shoulder Press. It's noticably tightened up the cuff and strengthened it. Not to where I'd say it still doesn't need to be fixed, but to the point where I can actually start moving back up on those exercises.
 
ChocolateClen

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I didn't lift for 6 months so I didn't really maintain anything. Pretty much screwed me over.
 
Tank999

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I'm constantly working around some shoulder injury. Because i never learn my lesson. I still dont warm up enough and I'm always forgetting I'm not 20 anymore.
Best thing I would say is get a day membership to one of them unholy newfangled purple gyms, where they have every machine ever. Try them till you find the ones that work without hurting you.
 
Volvo140G

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I carry my pain like a dog and just do my best to keep going, going easy if/when I have to.

My shoulder (ac ligament damage afaik) or my wrist or my knees/ankles blah blah always something. Lots of football, wrestling, snowbarding, backpacking/hiking, bike crashes, etc catching up with me I guess
 
justhere4comm

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I don't think I'm going to be much help other than support here. Aside from my back which took me out for 5 months, I've never (knock on wood - head) had an injury. I always warm up, and have a sort of paranoia because so many of my former team mates have had issues due to our wreckless youthful days of adventure. I'm so fortunate after having jumped off of pretty much whatever I've seen... (Tuck and roll baby!)

I will tell you this, and don't think me crazy, but I believe in angels (I've seen them), and if I can send one your way to help you out. It's already been done my man. I'm not even religious either, so figure that out. I've often joked with my wife they are just watching me for the entertainment value alone, so I've got that going for me. As I said. One thing I do believe in, is the certainty of postiive thoughts of others, and if you want to call them prayers, it won't offend because you have some seriously positive feelings coming your way.

I met a doctor the other day at work and we just started talking, and as it turns out, he may be retired (74 yo) but he's fit, and knows about 50 other doctors in a ring of sorts whom he recommends. I will reach out to him for you and report back. It will give me a good reason to ring him up aside from him recommending a good endo for me. (I'm thinking TRT sooner rather than later). He's a good guy, and I was just asking the ether the other day for some clue because my current doctor is not my fave. And there it is.

Thank you for the mention and bringing me here by the way! (IN)
 
bighulksmash

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I had a similar problem the last time I move my apartment. I tore my upper deltoid while I was in the best shape of my life could not lift my shoulder for 3 weeks. After realizing that this was a debilitating injury came to the conclusion that it would be best to take some time off from lifting I know it sounds ridiculous butt I took eight months off and it ended up being a full year of not lifting anything. I did put on a lot of weight but the pain and the injury healed itself lots of good eating and milk. I kept my protein intake the same as if I was lifting I lowered my calories and fats. I did a lot of stationary bike and walking it kind of sucked because at the time my son was 2 years old and he was clingy wanted to be picked up a lot and I would have to pick him up with my left arm only I couldn't even carry groceries or open a Simple door without screaming in pain. Nobody wants to hear taking a year off or even 6 months off but in reality none of these peptides are going to give you the same effect that good old-fashioned rest well. HGH may help you with a low dose of testosterone but I would not recommend taking off any less time than 6 months because these injuries can reignite themselves with the simplest interaction. Theres a blue gel that I used . A menthol pain reliever. This is one of those injuries that just takes and if you work a job that is physical you may want to reconsider at the time I was on patrol in my car pretty much all day driving around. I had to only drive with my left hand. I couldn't even get myself testosterone shots with my right hand. I wish you the best with this it's just an injury that nobody wants we will get through it. When it's a nerve issue it's hard for peptides like bpc or HGH to make a difference. ROM and things like Tai Chi will help a lot try to stay away from push-ups planking and things of that nature.
 
vujade

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I have injured my shoulders a couple times over the years. One time I was out of commission for 6 months.

The recommendations I can make to you that have worked for me, to maintain chest mass despite injuries....

Do dumbell presses instead of barbell presses. DB all0w you to twist your wrists as you come down to take stress of shoulders.

Do all press excercies with a 10 degree to 30 degree incline (Flat bench puts more stress on the shoulders, as does 45 degrees or more)

Use hammer strength machines for incline press

Do cables instead of db flyes

Do incline push ups

Press a 45lbs plate at various angles to work on close grip and upper chest
 
BloodManor

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Rest is the key with any injury. Also dosing ostarine at 25mg a day healed my nagging shoulder injury. Not healed 100% but 90% better.
 
ryane87

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I haven't specifically injured my shoulders in my lifetime, but tightness has been an extreme issue. I have found tennis ball pressure point release to be helpful. As far as maintaining mass, my best suggestion is to use exercises that irritate your shoulder the least. Have you looked at lifted67 shoulder rehab guide? Extremely helpful. I can post the link when I get out of the gym. Getting ready to train
 
Jebrook

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Nice input guys. Thanks. The chest and shoulders are my favorite body parts to train and chest is definitely my best attribute IMO. I just don't want to lose all the delopment due to atrophy but I will definitely take the recommended time off and start back slow when I do get things repaired. I'm going to schedule the procedure today and will update things in here. Keep the experiences and ideas coming!
 
Sparkss

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I have injured my shoulders a couple times over the years. One time I was out of commission for 6 months.

The recommendations I can make to you that have worked for me, to maintain chest mass despite injuries....

Do dumbell presses instead of barbell presses. DB all0w you to twist your wrists as you come down to take stress of shoulders.

Do all press excercies with a 10 degree to 30 degree incline (Flat bench puts more stress on the shoulders, as does 45 degrees or more)

Use hammer strength machines for incline press

Do cables instead of db flyes

Do incline push ups

Press a 45lbs plate at various angles to work on close grip and upper chest
All of these ^^^^ (having recovered/recovering from shoulder reconstruction, not just rotator cuff).
 
Sparkss

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Just the standard cuff surgery. They said 6 weeks recovery then 2 months PT. The scope is the better option imo.
depends on many factors. I am still "recovering" from mine (to a small degree), and that was roughly 2 years ago now. But the scope is needed. MRI and physical tests are worthless IMO (based on my personal experience)

I didn't lift for 6 months so I didn't really maintain anything. Pretty much screwed me over.
This ^^^ depending on your age and the injury, there are varying degreed of rotate cuff injury, from partial tear to full dissection. Some may heal on their own, others will only heal from surgery.
 
Sparkss

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Nice input guys. Thanks. The chest and shoulders are my favorite body parts to train and chest is definitely my best attribute IMO. I just don't want to lose all the delopment due to atrophy but I will definitely take the recommended time off and start back slow when I do get things repaired. I'm going to schedule the procedure today and will update things in here. Keep the experiences and ideas coming!
There will be at least several weeks where no exercise (outside of PT) will be advisable. Even with the great tips that vujade provided you will not be able to safely do those right away (and those are great tips, and what I use today to be able to lift). I would highly recommend letting your PT therapist guide you in what exercises are OK and when. It is their job to get you back healthy and "operational" and they are the best resource for what/when. broscience or anecdotal feedback is no substitute for medical advice, especially not in this instance. Just remember, and they will make you sign a form acknowledging this before the surgery, the surgery is no guarantee and they will tell you that more surgery may be needed later, if this one does not "take".
 
Jebrook

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There will be at least several weeks where no exercise (outside of PT) will be advisable. Even with the great tips that vujade provided you will not be able to safely do those right away (and those are great tips, and what I use today to be able to lift). I would highly recommend letting your PT therapist guide you in what exercises are OK and when. It is their job to get you back healthy and "operational" and they are the best resource for what/when. broscience or anecdotal feedback is no substitute for medical advice, especially not in this instance. Just remember, and they will make you sign a form acknowledging this before the surgery, the surgery is no guarantee and they will tell you that more surgery may be needed later, if this one does not "take".
Yessir, I agree. I've had an ACL graft and recovered very well and quickly with the help of a great physical therapist and following the surgeon's orders. I'm mainly looking to hear others' experiences with recovery. For instance, how long it took each person, how much training capacity they recovered, and what things they found benefitted their individual recovery. I'm not looking to be diagnosed or prescribed treatment. And I take everything with a grain of salt.
 
Sparkss

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For the efficacy of an MRI or physical "strength tests", I had all of that done and it all indicated, at most, a minor tear. The surgery was scheduled to run for 60 ~ 90 minutes. After the surgeon got inside he saw a significant amount more damage than had been indicated in any of the evaluation methods. The surgery ran for 3:45, well over twice as long as was originally planned. I ended up with 9 laparoscopic entry points (although I can only find 7 now) and several screws in my shoulder blade/muscle (to re-attach everything). When I asked the surgeon, in a post-op evaluation appointment, how we will know if the muscle re-attached, he just said "if the pain goes away, then most likely it is healed". I already knew an MRI was useless (and expensive). He said getting scoped was the only way to really tell and that scope procedure "was not the level of care my insurance would cover". So, yea, the scope is the only way to go to truly evaluate your injury.

As I mentioned the only way to heal a full bisected tear (where the muscle detached from the bone) is surgery. From everything I read and everything the surgeon told me the muscle will not re-attach itself. And most rotator cuff tears are really separations at the connecting point to the bone. The exercises they do for partial tear (separation) do not heal the tear, they are just designed to strengthen the remaining attached muscle to "carry the load".

I suspect that you already know all of this, but am sharing it in case anyone else following along considers falling into the trap of the online scams to "fix a torn rotator cuff".
 
Jebrook

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For the efficacy of an MRI or physical "strength tests", I had all of that done and it all indicated, at most, a minor tear. The surgery was scheduled to run for 60 ~ 90 minutes. After the surgeon got inside he saw a significant amount more damage than had been indicated in any of the evaluation methods. The surgery ran for 3:45, well over twice as long as was originally planned. I ended up with 9 laparoscopic entry points (although I can only find 7 now) and several screws in my shoulder blade/muscle (to re-attach everything). When I asked the surgeon, in a post-op evaluation appointment, how we will know if the muscle re-attached, he just said "if the pain goes away, then most likely it is healed". I already knew an MRI was useless (and expensive). He said getting scoped was the only way to really tell and that scope procedure "was not the level of care my insurance would cover". So, yea, the scope is the only way to go to truly evaluate your injury.

As I mentioned the only way to heal a full bisected tear (where the muscle detached from the bone) is surgery. From everything I read and everything the surgeon told me the muscle will not re-attach itself. And most rotator cuff tears are really separations at the connecting point to the bone. The exercises they do for partial tear (separation) do not heal the tear, they are just designed to strengthen the remaining attached muscle to "carry the load".

I suspect that you already know all of this, but am sharing it in case anyone else following along considers falling into the trap of the online scams to "fix a torn rotator cuff".
Naw this is good real life info Sparkss and what I'm looking for. That does make me apprehensive because I've had pain for 2 years honestly and just stubbornly trained around it. Still, fingers crossed for a minor injury and good prognosis. Time will tell;).
 
Sparkss

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Naw this is good real life info Sparkss and what I'm looking for. That does make me apprehensive because I've had pain for 2 years honestly and just stubbornly trained around it. Still, fingers crossed for a minor injury and good prognosis. Time will tell;).
Keeping my fingers crossed for you that it is a simple impingement that the surgeon can resolve while he is in there with the scope. Mine was the result of an accident (fell down a full flight of stairs) and I took a ton more damage than just my rotator, so take my experiences with a double dose of that grain of salt :). Plus, the younger you are the faster/better you will recover and respond to the surgery. :)
 
Studhorse

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Jebrook My 2 cents.
Been in this boat for at least 6 months. I had to try different exercises and it has gotten a better over time. Very slow progress and a he ll of alot of patience heart ache and saying I cant do that either. and the Weight has to stay down and the reps up. started with like 20-25 reps and now I'm at 12-14. very slow progress.

Google Jeff Cavaliere and Shoulder injuries he seems to know his stuff and has helped me get back to working shoulders and chest.. I posted some links some were for Hairy grandpa. might search Jeff Cavaliere on AM.
here is what I have been doing for the past 5 weeks. hope this helps.

Shoulders:
Bent over Lat raises with Cable. (do them Like Cavaliere says)
Standing Lat raises with cable (" " " " )
Single Arm Landmine Presses. Take the elbow as deep as the pain will allow.

Chest:
Hammer strength decline. (Make sure the elbows dont go below horizontal) this seems to help with almost all Shoulder and chest exercises.

Pec Dek machine. believe or not. try the seat at different heights.

Standing slightly bent over cable presses. (Make sure the thumbs are up and the stretch is what you can handle) experiment with different angles. I'm on this for like 15 min. I know it has to piss some people off at the gym. (they hardly ask to work in so screw them)
We have a chest press machine at the gym that you can push the starting point out to where my hands are not pressed into my chest to start.
Hard to explain. I can start the press with my hands out in front so my elbows are not too far back.(this does suck because I still have to go like really light or it hurts. Like 35 reps. I use it as a finisher.
Please feel free to ask any questions. Here to try to help! I feel your pain brother.

I have posted a Pick of how lopsided i have got since my left shoulder has been jacked.
IMG_20161029_154309725.jpg
 
Studhorse

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thanks Ryane87 Jebrook yes rehab 3 times a week is what I do. Got to make time for the rehab. I do it at the end of my workout since I have the blood flowing and more range of motion. make sure you do them correct and progress with more sets over time & take it slow to start out. (if you are not already doing them)
I went balls to the walls (like 15 min.) with them to start out and I think the inflammation got so bad it made it worse.
 
Studhorse

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Rest is the key with any injury. Also dosing ostarine at 25mg a day healed my nagging shoulder injury. Not healed 100% but 90% better.
so the ostarine helped that much? all natty but might have to take a shot at it.
Can you tell me how you cycled ostarine ?
 
ChocolateClen

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I'm gonna run a cycle in the spring focused not only on building mass and cutting but also fixing my god damn shoulders. Not sure what I'm going to run, probably deca and some peptides I've looked into slightly
 
Studhorse

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I'm gonna run a cycle in the spring focused not only on building mass and cutting but also fixing my god damn shoulders. Not sure what I'm going to run, probably deca and some peptides I've looked into slightly
I've heard D-bol is good for the Joints? However dont think you are going to cut on that.
 
Studhorse

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I'm gonna run a cycle in the spring focused not only on building mass and cutting but also fixing my god damn shoulders. Not sure what I'm going to run, probably deca and some peptides I've looked into slightly
BloodManor said the Mk-2866 really help him. might be worth looking into it. When i get some time I think I might.
 
ChocolateClen

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BloodManor said the Mk-2866 really help him. might be worth looking into it. When i get some time I think I might.
I heard something like 157 was good? Idk I honestly haven't looked much in to it cause I'm on a cycle now and I've heard it's a bad habit to plan your next cycle while you're still on one.
 
Jebrook

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I've heard D-bol is good for the Joints? However dont think you are going to cut on that.
Deca is famous for being joint friendly. Just be careful not to mask the pain and cause further injury.
 
LeanEngineer

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In on this!
 
Studhorse

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I heard something like 157 was good? Idk I honestly haven't looked much in to it cause I'm on a cycle now and I've heard it's a bad habit to plan your next cycle while you're still on one.
157 is some kind of a Peptide that HGP has been using for his bad shoulder. I think he said TB-500 helped more but dont quote me on that one.
 
ChocolateClen

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157 is some kind of a Peptide that HGP has been using for his bad shoulder. I think he said TB-500 helped more but dont quote me on that one.
Yeah if I recall correctly but I'm not entirely sure. I have to look in to this stuff more
 
Jebrook

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157 is some kind of a Peptide that HGP has been using for his bad shoulder. I think he said TB-500 helped more but dont quote me on that one.
BPC-157(Body Protecting Compound). I used 500 mg daily for two weeks about a month ago. I felt quick improvement and pushed harder. Likely this exacerbated my injury. It made my shoulder "feel" better at the time but wasn't enough to heal it fully. I do think it's a great product to use for many benefits though, plus it's relatively dirt cheap. My elbows and knees felt better than they ever had while on it and still do.
 
Jebrook

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Keeping my fingers crossed for you that it is a simple impingement that the surgeon can resolve while he is in there with the scope. Mine was the result of an accident (fell down a full flight of stairs) and I took a ton more damage than just my rotator, so take my experiences with a double dose of that grain of salt :). Plus, the younger you are the faster/better you will recover and respond to the surgery. :)
Lol. I'm belong in the 35 and older forum. I'm only out on furlough;). I'm 38!
 
Sparkss

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Lol. I'm belong in the 35 and older forum. I'm only out on furlough;). I'm 38!
I was 46 when I first injured mine, 47 by the time surgery/PT was done. So you are well ahead of the curve :D
 
Jebrook

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Good news guys. The scope will be done next Tuesday. I spoke to the surgeon and he's pretty confident that the damage is moderate to minor. He estimated about 10% chance of catastrophic injury. Still, with my luck, I'm very nervous. I'll keep you guys posted.
 
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I had my left shoulder operated on as a teenager because I dislocated 13 times. I have about 75% use of my shoulder. I was using bad form on the bench press and over head press and tore it up pretty good.

After surgery I made many mistakes and learned from them. Here is what I do now to avoid pain.

All of my pushing exercises are in the neutral grip.
I will usually do two body weight exercises at the end of every workout.
On pushing days I like to do dips and pushup/flys on gymnastic rings.

It is simple and it works for me.
 
Studhorse

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Good news guys. The scope will be done next Tuesday. I spoke to the surgeon and he's pretty confident that the damage is moderate to minor. He estimated about 10% chance of catastrophic injury. Still, with my luck, I'm very nervous. I'll keep you guys posted.
Good news. I dont even want to see what a Dr. would say. I couldn't handle the truth. plus it is sloooooowly getting better. I've been using Invictus for about 2 weeks and I think its speeding up the healing. Hope its not in my mind. Just got some ANDROCRINE TD. got a good deal. going to start using it after my Invictus runs out. I like the Iron Legion TD stuff, dont have to use so much.

Does OL have anything like this? I love the OL stuff I have used in the past.
 
Jebrook

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Good news. I dont even want to see what a Dr. would say. I couldn't handle the truth. plus it is sloooooowly getting better. I've been using Invictus for about 2 weeks and I think its speeding up the healing. Hope its not in my mind. Just got some ANDROCRINE TD. got a good deal. going to start using it after my Invictus runs out. I like the Iron Legion TD stuff, dont have to use so much.

Does OL have anything like this? I love the OL stuff I have used in the past.
If you're referring to invictus we don't have a solo cortisol control product ATM. We do have Sup3r 11 which reduces cortisol but it's not natty;). We also have a Laxogenin supp in both oral and transdermal.
 
The_Old_Guy

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Other than some minor niggles in the shoulder area that went away after skipping a session or two - I have no experience in this area. The only thing I can add, is if you can do the movements *at all* with a light weight - Schoenfeld has shown hypertrophy even with reps in the 20-25 range IIRC.
 
jh1

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Sorry to hear about your shoulder, man. The surgeons I work with typically say around 16 weeks recovery if there is a cuff tear. Closer to 6 months before decent lifting unfortunately. Just the acromioplasty cuts that time in about half. I highly recommend making sure your surgeon intends to repair the cuff arthroscopically if they find a tear. Not all ortho surgeons do rotator cuff repairs arthroscopically (and there can be extenuating circumstances where they just can't for certain tears). There is less muscle dissection, and quicker recovery if they don't have to use an open approach, not to mention much smaller scars.

I've had shoulder issues for years as a result of an old mountain biking injury. I have impingement, but have been able to avoid surgery thus far. I don't barbell bench anymore. Haven't for 10 years. Strictly dumbbell bench, cable cross overs and occasionally floor press. I also have to be careful on bench angle for inclines (needs to be below 30 degrees for me). This has allowed me to work around my shoulder issues fairly well, and I personally think you get a better response from dumbbells anyway (minus the part where you get to compare bench press numbers with everyone ?). I've also had good results from a quality joint support. Cissus, turmeric, fish oil and flexatril have all done wonders (though I'm pretty sure you have the supplement side handled).
 
Gutterpump

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Jebrook I'm not sure about recovering from a scope, but I had a SLAP repair, bicep tenodesis and had my bursa removed. I used TB-500 (5mg/week) and it helped me speed through recovery, and helped a lot with pain, muscle spasms and adhesions. I went to PT 3-4 days per week. I believe a friend of mine just had a scope and cleanup done and it didn't take too long to recover, maybe a couple months? My ROM recovered within 1 month, total recovery in about 3-4 months. I wasn't very aggressive though as it was a pretty major surgery for myself, so I stuck to bands and dumb bells for a while before benching and pressing again.
 
Studhorse

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If you're referring to invictus we don't have a solo cortisol control product ATM. We do have Sup3r 11 which reduces cortisol but it's not natty;). We also have a Laxogenin supp in both oral and transdermal.
thanks for the info brother. I will look into the Laxogenin.
 
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