Staying on test

[Cgkone]

This is my opinion. I believe "androgen desensitization" is bs. If guys are constantly on trt, and it's constantly working, how are their receptors being desensitized? Idk my body is so used to external test my nuggets no longer shrink. I tried going off and on when I was younger... Just ****s with your body. Try it, or stay with it

There not Its crap brother

 

[Cgkone]

That may be how *your personal* body/ endocrine system works. Others, like myself, when first put on trt put me back where I needed to be. After year 3 going on 4 my levels were low end and dose was doubled to get it back to where I needed to be. At that point my nuts were (and still are) all shriveled up and for me to have kids I'd prolly have to do a Clomid or nolva and HCG for months and months and I may still not be able to have kids. It's all person to person.
I know a pal who runs 3 to 4 oils at relatively high doses year round and orals here n there and he has a Bunch of kids (don't want to give too much away).

So everyone's body is going to respond differently, esp over time and dosages is my only point really.

Wait a minute 150mg of pharma test has you at low test levels?

 

[Bintherduntht]

Wait a minute 150mg of pharma test has you at low test levels?

150mg test a week is enough??? Guess I learned something today

 

[Bintherduntht]

I thought normal trt therapy protocol was 200 cyp per week?

 

[Chados]

So in the year who will gain more....IYO.
The guy who cruises or the guy that PCTs?

Well it really depends. Fresh receptors will always be more effective. Like I said you could go a first cycle at 250 and get huge results and take a guy that cruises and will have to go up to 500 or add deca to start gaining. It only takes about 10-12 weeks for test e to start slowing down heavily. You'll get more results with less if youre not cruising.

 

[Cgkone]

150mg test a week is enough??? Guess I learned something today

Well should be enough for a cruise dose.
I actually am starting to prefer going down to 300mg for a couple weeks then 200 mg.
Then I stop at 100 mg. Cruise for 10 weeks like that.
I added s4 lat time after a month and had a kick ass time.
This cycle I'm in now has been the best.
I absolutely dispute any desensitized receptors.
Each cycle should yield better results.

 

[Cgkone]

I thought normal trt therapy protocol was 200 cyp per week?

I think average is 150 but I get mine underground so I don't even know

 

[chemjr]

Wait a minute 150mg of pharma test has you at low test levels?

Starting trt dose was 100/wk cyp and levels were back just under 800 like it was when I was natural (last natty test at 24 was 789ng/dl). Then it started drooping and they bumped it to 200 and now I'm back in mid 700's.

And for all those worried about desensitized ar's, *TAKE ALCAR YEAR ROUND*. MY LEVELS WENT UP AFTER 90 DAYS OF IT, SIGNIFICANTLY. But again, this is all subjective as EVERYONE'S BODY IS DIFFERENT. Simple (yet complex) as that.

Btw- cgkone, I've agreed with your posts so far, almost to end of thread. Guys who stay on (cruise w soke blasting in there) get more gains, simple as that. And usually happier too.

 

[B5150]

I'm not disagreeing with you and neither should you with me. Fact is still that coming off will give more gains during a shorter span. The test will be far more powerful alone if you're coming off. Basically more results and less time cycling. But yes theoretically it's easier to keep the gains while cruising even tho the gains will be less.

You like to toss the fact word around a lot and most of what you're saying is your opinion and far from correct or fact.

 

[Chados]

You like to toss the fact word around a lot and most of what you're saying is your opinion and far from correct or fact.

No it's not, fresh receptors will respond far better and anyone that's done a cycle knows this.

 

[B5150]

No it's not, fresh receptors will respond far better and anyone that's done a cycle knows this.

You cruise on TRT test and blast with other androgens. No receptor issues.

 

[Chados]

You cruise on TRT test and blast with other androgens. No receptor issues.

The test itself won't be as effective simple as that.

 

[B5150]

It serves no purpose but we'll being and libido. If I bump to cycle dose of 500mg there will be no worries of receptor issues because I don't sit around imagining ridiculous scenarios of non responsive receptors.

 

[Chados]

It serves no purpose but we'll being and libido. If I bump to cycle dose of 500mg there will be no worries of receptor issues because I don't sit around imagining ridiculous scenarios of non responsive receptors.

So you have to bump it up. You just proved my whole point.

 

[B5150]

So you have to bump it up. You just proved my whole point.

I did not. If you desire to "blast" test that requires an increase in dose. Regardless.

 

[Cgkone]

So you have to bump it up. You just proved my whole point.

Bro its ok to be wrong.
You prefer to PCT.
That does not mean its best.
For sure it isn't going to yield more gains.
These guys are trying to explain that to you.
You just don't want to hear it.

 

[Chados]

I did not. If you desire to blast test that requires an increase in dose. Regardless.

Yes you did cause that's what I said all along. I also explained why I felt it was safer which was due to not having to increase the dosage. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. If you're on extra test instead of natural of course you're gonna gain more but you're also gonna be going on for a far longer period of time. Whats most powerful in terms of gains? Coming off obviously will produce quicker gains.

 

[Cgkone]

No it's not, fresh receptors will respond far better and anyone that's done a cycle knows this.

Disagree with this too.
I responded better and way faster wen I went from a cruise to a blast.
Why do you think peep dedicated to this lifestyle choose to cruise.
It yields better results.

 

[Chados]

Bro its ok to be wrong.
You prefer to PCT.
That does not mean its best.
For sure it isn't going to yield more gains.
These guys are trying to explain that to you.
You just don't want to hear it.

Lol.. stop talking nonsense, you asked what I thought was more safe and more effective and I stand by that. You're comparing a year or two on test vs a shorter cycle.

 

[B5150]

Yes you did cause that's what I said all along. I also explained why I felt it was safer which was due to not having to increase the dosage. I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make here. If you're on extra test instead of natural of course you're gonna gain more but you're also gonna be going on for a far longer period of time. Whats most powerful in terms of gains? Coming off obviously will produce quicker gains.

Wrong

 

[Chados]

Disagree with this too.
I responded better and way faster wen I went from a cruise to a blast.
Why do you think peep dedicated to this lifestyle choose to cruise.
It yields better results.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Again don't compare high testoateron for years vs a 3 month cycle. The shorter cycle is obviously more potent considering the time.

 

[Chados]

Wrong

Im done

 

[CatSnake]

If you cruise after a cycle you probably won't loose much gains at all but you also won't gain much more for a long time cause your body gets used to the dosage. If you go off, your body will respond even at a very low dose of test and if you keep the gains which you can with a proper pct. That in my opinion is an healthier option. Of course you can always keep test low but you will also experience less gains on each cycle.

you seem to be arguing that your body is more responsive to androgens with time off vs B&C, which is apparent. however, I don't think there's any reason to think coming off and going back on will result in greater gains than simply staying on, albeit at a cruising dosage.

example: if I blast with levels of 3,000 and cruise at 1,000, the average levels would be higher than the guy who cycles at 3,000 and is off at 600.

^now, if your natural production is extremely high, then coming off would make more sense than a guy with normal or low-normal levels.

obviously testosterone levels are not the only factor for LBM gain, but they are a significant factor nonetheless...


http://basskilleronline.com/androgen-receptor-downregulation.shtml

^good article on the topic




.

 

[Chados]

you seem to be arguing that your body is more responsive to androgens with time off vs B&C, which is apparent. however, I don't think there's any reason to think coming off and going back on will result in greater gains than simply staying on, albeit at a cruising dosage.

example: if I blast with levels of 3,000 and cruise at 1,000, the average levels would be higher than the guy who cycles at 3,000 and is off at 600.

^now, if your natural production is extremely high, then coming off would make more sense than a guy with normal or low-normal levels.

obviously testosterone levels are not the only factor for LBM gain, but they are a significant factor nonetheless...


http://basskilleronline.com/androgen-receptor-downregulation.shtml

^good article on the topic




.

No just what's more effective considering the amount of time. Also there's nothing that says staying off the same amount of time is a rule but more a safety reason. Arguably the most effective thing would be short time off and back on but then we're talking about sides.

 

[chemjr]

No just what's more effective considering the amount of time. Also there's nothing that says staying off the same amount of time is a rule but more a safety reason. Arguably the most effective thing would be short time off and back on but then we're talking about sides.

You all are arguing over something that isn't even comparable. You wanna stay on, STAY ON. You think cycling off will be healthier than a trt dose then CYCLE OFF. Discussion over. I hate to get involved but there is a ton of literature about trt and there's also a bunch of literature on using gear overseas cycling. So go read so,e **** and watch youtube if you want drama, this isn't the place. This agression will not stand man. Good day sirs.

-the dude abides

 

[Chados]

You all are arguing over something that isn't even comparable. You wanna stay on, STAY ON. You think cycling off will be healthier than a trt dose then CYCLE OFF. Discussion over. I hate to get involved but there is a ton of literature about trt and there's also a bunch of literature on using gear overseas cycling. So go read so,e **** and watch youtube if you want drama, this isn't the place. This agression will not stand man. Good day sirs.

-the dude abides

I hope that aggression wasn't meant for me cause I have not said one agressive thing I'm also just responding and didn't start any argument.

 

[hairygrandpa]

There are many ways leading to Rome.

For instance, I prefer to stay around 175-250mg/w of test, regardless if I cruise -or blast. Test is not magical -and not as anabolic as other compounds, we need it to stay "happy"and keep the gains.
A blast could be a bulk -or cut. Here I prefer orals. Currently cutting 12 weeks on: 250mg test-u/w, 12.5mg LGD/d, 20mg Cardarine and 80mg Telmisartan (lowering BP and enhancing effects of Cardarine).
A blast would be: 8 weeks 250mg test-u/w, 80mg T-bol/d.

 

[B5150]

TRT - 125mg TEST/140mg MAST/W

16 weeks lean mass Blast - 150-200mg TEST/400 mg MAST/600mg NPP/W - (front - 75mg ABomb)

16 weeks cut Blast - 150-200mg TEST/400mg MAST/400mg TREN/W -
(Front/back - anavar/winnie)

 

[bradleyt1]

I don’t really understand the whole low test craze in more recent years, whereas years ago it seemed like test was run higher than the other anabolics.

 

[Cgkone]

I'm co.ing off Tren/test prop/ace 500 mg each on the first
Will be switching to sust 150 mg
Deca 200mg
Will ride that for 10 weeks
Might add S4 because that stuff was awesome at 100mg a day.
Just yellow vision and light sensitive at night.
I'm an early bird so I'm in bed by 630pm.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I don’t really understand the whole low test craze in more recent years, whereas years ago it seemed like test was run higher than the other anabolics.

Because test is not as convenient as other compounds. Why fight aromatization by high test? Why losing hair because of high test? Why having high RBC/BP because of high test? You can have all those sides from other compounds that are much more anabolic -or even less sides, depending on what you use.

Think of test as the salt in a soup. Is it necessary? Yes -but a pinch is enough.

 

[Nac]

It serves no purpose but we'll being and libido. If I bump to cycle dose of 500mg there will be no worries of receptor issues because I don't sit around imagining ridiculous scenarios of non responsive receptors.

Right on.

Its pretty clear to me that people can choose to blast and cruise like a bro; or, they can apply a bit of strategy and intelligence to it.

Further, what can be accomplished in the latter approach will be superior to being constrained by PCT issues and timeframes. Receptor "sensitivity" neednt even enter the equation.

While Joe-PCT is contending with diurnal fluctuations, Mr.BlastAndCruise is sitting nicely on consistently high end physiological levels. And, some guys are simply going to get to a point where holding gains requires ongoing exogenous test.

 

[Cgkone]

Right on.

Its pretty clear to me that people can choose to blast and cruise like a bro; or, they can apply a bit of strategy and intelligence to it.

Further, what can be accomplished in the latter approach will be superior to being constrained by PCT issues and timeframes. Receptor "sensitivity" neednt even enter the equation.

While Joe-PCT is contending with diurnal fluctuations, Mr.BlastAndCruise is sitting nicely on consistently high end physiological levels. And, some guys are simply going to get to a point where holding gains requires ongoing exogenous test.

Well said.
Absolutely nothing wrong with PCT.
In No way will it make short term steroid cycles "better".

 

[Bintherduntht]

Take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt. I've been cruising on upwards of 400mgs of test a week... While blasting here and there with orals (always tudca and nac) and injects. For 3 years. During those 3 years I've not had a drop of alcohol, no fast food (ok subway) with an extremely clean diet no soda no crap. Cardio always involved. Taking the correct ( which surprisingly are the simplest) supps. Just got my blood work done at the VA 2 weeks ago. Zero issues.. I in no way condone what I'm doing it took me years too figure this out. Is it safe? The point is whatever you do, be as healthy as you can. But going on and coming off and going on. Damn!

 

[bradleyt1]

do you think there is any benefit to running test over 400mg or is that your max? Also it matters if you are using UGL or Pharma because who knows if 400mgs of ugl rewlly is 400mgs

 

[troybrown]

yep i'm a lifer, low T at the age of 30....32 old years now.

 

[Bintherduntht]

do you think there is any benefit to running test over 400mg or is that your max? Also it matters if you are using UGL or Pharma because who knows if 400mgs of ugl rewlly is 400mgs

Honestly, again my opinion. When I see guys posting "yea I inject sust eod or prop every day... I think they are getting watered down or weaker concentrations of the T. I cannot source. With ugl you never know. Could be donkey piss. Or grape seed oil. I know what I get is legit. I see guys at the gym with horrible skin covered in back acne. Never have I once gotten that. Skin always looks better. I never go over 400. Shoot 350 kicks my arse. I've talked to guys who have been using for years and years. They say 90% of the info on the net is bs. Laughed my ass off when Bostin lyod and other guys take a gram a week. Really? REALLY?

 

[hairygrandpa]

do you think there is any benefit to running test over 400mg or is that your max? Also it matters if you are using UGL or Pharma because who knows if 400mgs of ugl rewlly is 400mgs

Still riding that high test horse -are we?
Do you have a "test fetish"?

How much test is in my test? Well, blood labs help a lot. If I find a particular batch of an UGL lab to be good, I buy a year of supply in advance.

edit: I don't trust any label claiming more than 250mg test/ml

 

[bradleyt1]

Do you consider 400mg of test too much? Just curious to find everybody’s opinion

 

[Bintherduntht]

Do you consider 400mg of test too much? Just curious to find everybody’s opinion

Depends. Are you blasting or cruising? For cruising yes too much

 

[bradleyt1]

Well after seeing Dallas mccarvers autopsy report showing a test level of 55,000ng/dL.. I think they said it was equivalent to taking 10,000 mg test a week. So then it makes you question is this what really goes on in the industry, I have competed 4 times myself just local stuff, but I couldn’t imagine what it takes to be at the pro level

 

[hairygrandpa]

Do you consider 400mg of test too much? Just curious to find everybody’s opinion

It depends... It is not too much if you run it solo. It may be too much if you run it with 400mg tren. It is too much when running it for a cruise, IMHO.
Here are apparently more people who favor less test, like I do. Besides everyone reacts different.

 

[Bintherduntht]

Still riding that high test horse -are we?
Do you have a "test fetish"?

How much test is in my test? Well, blood labs help a lot. If I find a particular batch of an UGL lab to be good, I buy a year of supply in advance.

edit: I don't trust any label claiming more than 250mg test/ml

I ran this one called "megatest500" lol. Had 90mg T deca, 150mg cyp, 75mg iso, 75mg phenylprop, 60mg prop, 50mg ace. T ACE. Unheard of. You bet your ass I felt it 3 hours post inject. No ****

 

[hairygrandpa]

I ran this one called "megatest500" lol. Had 90mg T deca, 150mg cyp, 75mg iso, 75mg phenylprop, 60mg prop, 50mg ace. T ACE. Unheard of. You bet your ass I felt it 3 hours post inject. No ****

How was the PIP on it? LOL

 

[B5150]

It depends... It is not too much if you run it solo. It may be too much if you run it with 400mg tren. It is too much when running it for a cruise, IMHO.
Here are apparently more people who favor less test, like I do. Besides everyone reacts different.

At 52 my heart health is far more important than 500ng/ml of testosterone. It does become counter-indicative to all the benefits of TRT when dosed too far beyond the physiological level. I'm on TRT for anti-aging and longevity purposes and will continue to look better as I age as long as I remain focused on the finish.

 

[Bintherduntht]

How was the PIP on it? LOL

None brother! I've had a trusted source (not giving source info) for the past 7 years. C L E A N

 

[hairygrandpa]

At 52 my heart health is far more important than 500ng/ml of testosterone. It does become counter-indicative to all the benefits of TRT when dosed too far beyond the physiological level. I'm on TRT for anti-aging and longevity purposes and will continue to look better as I age as long as I remain focused on the finish.

Yes, aging is a biatch. Have to choose very wisely what -and how much to use. Less is more at our age.

 

[Bintherduntht]

At 52 my heart health is far more important than 500ng/ml of testosterone. It does become counter-indicative to all the benefits of TRT when dosed too far beyond the physiological level. I'm on TRT for anti-aging and longevity purposes and will continue to look better as I age as long as I remain focused on the finish.

Certain supps do wonders for heart health besides of course cardio. Coq-10, fish oil. There's a bunch. Just eating healthy! And staying active. It's not all about them dang weights but at your age you know

 

[Bintherduntht]

Well it really depends. Fresh receptors will always be more effective. Like I said you could go a first cycle at 250 and get huge results and take a guy that cruises and will have to go up to 500 or add deca to start gaining. It only takes about 10-12 weeks for test e to start slowing down heavily. You'll get more results with less if youre not cruising.

True. I gave my buddy sus 250 because I was getting swole off it. It made his test plummet. Diff strokes diff folks

 

[Cgkone]

Do you consider 400mg of test too much? Just curious to find everybody’s opinion

Not for a cycle.
400 mg is a good spot for test in a stack