Starting TRT today

kisaj

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Just don't get caught up in chasing numbers, some doctors are more focused on this than actually addressing symptoms and how their patients feel. More is not better in most cases and keep in mind that exogenous test increases androgen sensitivity and neurotransmitter release, so comparing numbers that are natural vs TRT are not apples to apples. My point is, everyone is different so don't worry about getting as high as you can.
 
lionking999

lionking999

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Just don't get caught up in chasing numbers, some doctors are more focused on this than actually addressing symptoms and how their patients feel. More is not better in most cases and keep in mind that exogenous test increases androgen sensitivity and neurotransmitter release, so comparing numbers that are natural vs TRT are not apples to apples. My point is, everyone is different so don't worry about getting as high as you can.
I didn’t think about it this way. just did my first 150 dose last night so I will let this ride to see how I feel. But I agree I’d much rather feel better than worry about the numbers. Let’s find out!
 
lionking999

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I'm in the same boat. You know it gets bad when you start looking at women at work or the gym that you would've never looked ar before
Exactly. I feel like I’m in high school getting those random boners. I see where some may find it as an annoyance. But it damn sure is nice having that back after a couple years not having it
 
lionking999

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After my next bloods, in two months, I want to run 600-900mg epiandro and trueshred (7keto dhea and arimistane) for two months.

Since I have to do labs every three months will that raise any flags with my dr when it’s time to do bloods?
 
manbeast1

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Exactly. I feel like I’m in high school getting those random boners. I see where some may find it as an annoyance. But it damn sure is nice having that back after a couple years not having it
I’m on Anavar now too and I seem to have an even more pronounced sex drive
 
manbeast1

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After my next bloods, in two months, I want to run 600-900mg epiandro and trueshred (7keto dhea and arimistane) for two months.

Since I have to do labs every three months will that raise any flags with my dr when it’s time to do bloods?
Depends on how cool your doc is
 
lionking999

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but what I mean is, is a month off before bloods enough time for things to be back close to normal range?
 
manbeast1

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Guess I’ll really find out when I run rad or dmz lol
Rad won’t really set off any alarms and DMZ shouldn’t either I’m taking 250mg a week 50mg higher than my trt dose. And Anavar which is strong as hell my doc is good with it but I feel fine no issues side effect wise last bloodwork test was above 1500 e2 around 40 I feel great now the Anavar to free up that sbgh and add that extra push. I guess we will see. Also remember it takes a good 3 months to get a full stable amout of test and for your blood to level out and sit where you want. Biggest thing is focus on how you feel and are you getting any weird sides .
 
lionking999

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quick update to anyone that cares. still at 150/week. my libido has disappeared again. it was high for a week then went away.

also my doc asked me in the beginning if I wanted to have kids in the future. I said no. He asked if shrinkage would bother me I said it wouldn’t. but to be honest I am slightly bothered by shrinkage/load size. Is it too late for hcg or should I ask about it
 
Hyde

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It will probably bring things up some but it’s going to add further estrogen burden. I would not continue to use it if you find it requires you also add an AI.
 
Dustin07

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quick update to anyone that cares. still at 150/week. my libido has disappeared again. it was high for a week then went away.

also my doc asked me in the beginning if I wanted to have kids in the future. I said no. He asked if shrinkage would bother me I said it wouldn’t. but to be honest I am slightly bothered by shrinkage/load size. Is it too late for hcg or should I ask about it
There is a thread on here about orchic extract. No idea if it would assist but I've seen a lot of natty guys report a huge difference from it (including liver kings mofo product). My buddy says when he uses ZMA he gets blue balls. I haven't experienced that from ZMA but the orchic extract and mofo had an immediate effect on me
 
lionking999

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There is a thread on here about orchic extract. No idea if it would assist but I've seen a lot of natty guys report a huge difference from it (including liver kings mofo product). My buddy says when he uses ZMA he gets blue balls. I haven't experienced that from ZMA but the orchic extract and mofo had an immediate effect on me
Thank you I will look into them right away
 
Hyde

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There is a thread on here about orchic extract. No idea if it would assist but I've seen a lot of natty guys report a huge difference from it (including liver kings mofo product). My buddy says when he uses ZMA he gets blue balls. I haven't experienced that from ZMA but the orchic extract and mofo had an immediate effect on me
I take extra zinc and magnesium daily. Have for a decade. I can promise you I’m not cumming buckets, nor are the thousands of men that supplement with these essential minerals.

HCG is also very cheap for a low dose, like $30-40 a vial that will last 10 weeks at 500iu weekly. Just sayin’.
 
Dustin07

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I take extra zinc and magnesium daily. Have for a decade. I can promise you I’m not cumming buckets, nor are the thousands of men that supplement with these essential minerals.

HCG is also very cheap for a low dose, like $30-40 a vial that will last 10 weeks at 500iu weekly. Just sayin’.
I never noticed it on ZMA but I never noticed a dwindling in my shot either until the last few weeks. For all I know it could be mental but I did give the orchic extract a try and in a couple days was ready to audition as peter norths stunt double again

It's been a while since I've been on ZMA but if I'm going to be fasting more I think I'll restock for sleep aid
 
Hyde

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I never noticed it on ZMA but I never noticed a dwindling in my shot either until the last few weeks. For all I know it could be mental but I did give the orchic extract a try and in a couple days was ready to audition as peter norths stunt double again

It's been a while since I've been on ZMA but if I'm going to be fasting more I think I'll restock for sleep aid
Everyone should supplement with magnesium, virtually everyone. We just don’t get it in our diets with the soil we have now.

Most men looking for optimized muscle growth should be supplementing zinc. For naturals it affects test, and it affects everyone’s immune systems and is a rate-limiter in IGF1 expression. You cannot grow muscle maximally when zinc deficient. And really it’s helpful for most people who don’t eat a lot of red meat.
 

Mikereyn513

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Everyone should supplement with magnesium, virtually everyone. We just don’t get it in our diets with the soil we have now.

Most men looking for optimized muscle growth should be supplementing zinc. For naturals it affects test, and it affects everyone’s immune systems and is a rate-limiter in IGF1 expression. You cannot grow muscle maximally when zinc deficient. And really it’s helpful for most people who don’t eat a lot of red meat.
Damn @Hyde Now I gotta go out and get some zinc. Would the lozenges be okay atleast it would help with the sugar cravings
 
Hyde

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Damn @Hyde Now I gotta go out and get some zinc. Would the lozenges be okay atleast it would help with the sugar cravings
Mag, zinc, & D3 (based on bloodwork) are the 3 things I would just about universally recommend people consider. Things that are safe & necessary in certain doses for optimal health.
 

Mikereyn513

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Mag, zinc, & D3 (based on bloodwork) are the 3 things I would just about universally recommend people consider. Things that are safe & necessary in certain doses for optimal health.
Vigorous Steve always talks about supplemental magnesium and big Paul is adamant about d3 and fish oil
 
lionking999

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Ok just finished up at the endo. I told him all was good except for libido. He suggested stopping trt to re evaluate my natural levels. I said I’m not doing that.

He said if the test hasn’t fixed my libido by now then test is not the problem. my nipples are also a tad sensitive. Maybe a 1 or 2 on a scale of 10. I asked about checking estrogen levels. He refused and said there is no reason to check estrogen.

Needless to say I won’t be going back to him.

Now my question is what AI would everyone recommend to either buy otc or research company for long term?
 

sammpedd88

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Ok just finished up at the endo. I told him all was good except for libido. He suggested stopping trt to re evaluate my natural levels. I said I’m not doing that.

He said if the test hasn’t fixed my libido by now then test is not the problem. my nipples are also a tad sensitive. Maybe a 1 or 2 on a scale of 10. I asked about checking estrogen levels. He refused and said there is no reason to check estrogen.

Needless to say I won’t be going back to him.

Now my question is what AI would everyone recommend to either buy otc or research company for long term?
First, find a dr that will thoroughly test your hormones, complete CBC, lipids, DHEA, preg, and D3. You can try OTC things like DIM or Muscle Addiction Eradicate-E. @%1; can answer questions about this product. IMO you don’t want to throw a pharma AI in unless you know for sure your E2 is high and how high. You can crush it in a heart beat and that’s just as bad as being high. But most importantly find another dr.
 
lionking999

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First, find a dr that will thoroughly test your hormones, complete CBC, lipids, DHEA, preg, and D3. You can try OTC things like DIM or Muscle Addiction Eradicate-E. @%1; can answer questions about this product. IMO you don’t want to throw a pharma AI in unless you know for sure your E2 is high and how high. You can crush it in a heart beat and that’s just as bad as being high. But most importantly find another dr.
I will find another dr. As for now, I have ordered letrone by blr to see if that helps for the time being. Thanks for the response
 
lionking999

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looks like I got myself into a pickle. I did blood work 6 weeks ago. hemoglobin was slightly elevated but not by much so didn’t think much of it. dr called me today and wants a retest on cbc/hemoglobin as soon as possible.

my issue: I’ve been on 20mg rad for 6 weeks, 30mg ralox to clear up some gyno issues I had, and 200 test cyp instead of my prescribed 150.

I will drop rad today. what else should I do to get my bloods to look at least somewhat normal and how long should I wait before I get bloodwork?
 
Hyde

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looks like I got myself into a pickle. I did blood work 6 weeks ago. hemoglobin was slightly elevated but not by much so didn’t think much of it. dr called me today and wants a retest on cbc/hemoglobin as soon as possible.

my issue: I’ve been on 20mg rad for 6 weeks, 30mg ralox to clear up some gyno issues I had, and 200 test cyp instead of my prescribed 150.

I will drop rad today. what else should I do to get my bloods to look at least somewhat normal and how long should I wait before I get bloodwork?
Red blood cells take months to die, so short of donating blood you’re not going to lower hemoglobin or hematocrit beyond being very well hydrated. Best to get tested ASAP actually, since RBC levels trail behind the PED administration.
 
lionking999

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Red blood cells take months to die, so short of donating blood you’re not going to lower hemoglobin or hematocrit beyond being very well hydrated. Best to get tested ASAP actually, since RBC levels trail behind the PED administration.
Okay thank you!
 
lionking999

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going for blood work tomorrow. I also just seen it’s only cbc.
 
Hyde

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going for blood work tomorrow. I also just seen it’s only cbc.
Hemoglobin is part of a CBC.

To be clear, I would expect it to be higher now than 60 days ago when you raised testosterone. But the longer you wait the worse it could get, so your best options are to go now as is and just cross your fingers, or donate blood first and then it will probably be in range (it will definitely be lower than if you hadn’t donated).

Either way, drink ~2 pints / 1 liter water before bed and again when you wake up, prior to the morning draw. More water in your veins means the blood cells can spread out and be less concentrated.
 
lionking999

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Hemoglobin is part of a CBC.

To be clear, I would expect it to be higher now than 60 days ago when you raised testosterone. But the longer you wait the worse it could get, so your best options are to go now as is and just cross your fingers, or donate blood first and then it will probably be in range (it will definitely be lower than if you hadn’t donated).

Either way, drink ~2 pints / 1 liter water before bed and again when you wake up, prior to the morning draw. More water in your veins means the blood cells can spread out and be less concentrated.
Oh yes I know it includes hemoglobin I just meant I was glad they weren’t testing my t levels or anything lol. anyways I drank as much as I could and just got back so I’ll update with those results when I get them. fingers crossed. worst case is I’ll just tell him about the rad 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Hyde

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Rbc and Hemoglobin I bet doc will be alright with, but I bet they will trip over hematocrit.

I would donate if you can and that should get you back in range on the first 2, and lower hematocrit a few points. Without knowing your ferritin, I can’t say whether you should consider some IP6 use going forward.
 
lionking999

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Rbc and Hemoglobin I bet doc will be alright with, but I bet they will trip over hematocrit.

I would donate if you can and that should get you back in range on the first 2, and lower hematocrit a few points. Without knowing your ferritin, I can’t say whether you should consider some IP6 use going forward.
I’m assuming he will likely contact me to schedule an appointment. Do you think it’s best to be completely honest with him about the rad or should I play dumb?
 
Hyde

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I’m assuming he will likely contact me to schedule an appointment. Do you think it’s best to be completely honest with him about the rad or should I play dumb?
I certainly couldn’t say anything with any measure of confidence - this is subjective, while the blood related info was cut & dry facts.

In my mind, if the doctor thought the script he was giving me was responsible for health markers that were not acceptable, he would be inclined to either lower the dose or discontinue therapy - not good. So I would want to blame it on something believable. But saying you added more testosterone is A. not legal and B. sounds like you probably should have known better. So if you admit to using RAD but don’t mention the extra test, and say you didn’t think it would affect you like that, it offers some explanation while also not being illegal or being a full admission to more obviously unacceptable actions.

“Well, I did start taking this SARM product I bought online, but it said it had no side effects so I didn’t think it would affect anything…should I stop taking that Doc?”
 

Mikereyn513

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I certainly couldn’t say anything with any measure of confidence - this is subjective, while the blood related info was cut & dry facts.

In my mind, if the doctor thought the script he was giving me was responsible for health markers that were not acceptable, he would be inclined to either lower the dose or discontinue therapy - not good. So I would want to blame it on something believable. But saying you added more testosterone is A. not legal and B. sounds like you probably should have known better. So if you admit to using RAD but don’t mention the extra test, and say you didn’t think it would affect you like that, it offers some explanation while also not being illegal or being a full admission to more obviously unacceptable actions.

“Well, I did start taking this SARM product I bought online, but it said it had no side effects so I didn’t think it would affect anything…should I stop taking that Doc?”
This all day☝ do like the NFL players...i didn't think that was a banned substance or i didn't know there was even a banned substance in that
 
lionking999

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my appointment is scheduled for the 14th. will update. until then I’m going to drop back down to the 150 and continue to stay hydrated as much as possible. I’ll make the decision to tell him about the rad based off how the conversation is going I guess
 

Mattyn551

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Yea I wouldn’t personally do anything other than injection
 

ripper225

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If it were me I’d find another doc. the fact he doesn’t prescribe inject, requests labs every three months, and wants to refer to and endo (99% of those guys are working off pre-1950s knowledge of human physiology) are red flags to me.

the lab tests maybe not so much as you get your initial dose dialed in, BUt the fact he doesn’t even work with inject is an indicator (IMO) he doesn’t feel knowledgeable or comfortable advising this, so chances are you’ll end up with a less than ideal dosing with no support for any sides and will likely be tested every few months while under his care.
 

ripper225

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Ok just finished up at the endo. I told him all was good except for libido. He suggested stopping trt to re evaluate my natural levels. I said I’m not doing that.

He said if the test hasn’t fixed my libido by now then test is not the problem. my nipples are also a tad sensitive. Maybe a 1 or 2 on a scale of 10. I asked about checking estrogen levels. He refused and said there is no reason to check estrogen.

Needless to say I won’t be going back to him.

Now my question is what AI would everyone recommend to either buy otc or research company for long term?
Lmao!! Another Endo reinforces the stereotype that the people that go into that field are completely worthless.

Long term AI = DIM. I was skeptic at first after needing a bit of AI help on TRT. My doc recommended it and I very reluctantly tried it after she wouldn’t Rx me an AI. Dose as needed but I typically do 100mg/day on trt but have done 300mg a few times a day if I felt things had gotten away from me.

for guys on TRT, if you’re doing your own shots, instead of doing something like 0.9cc IM/wk. try doing M/W/F 0.3cc subq. It made a huge difference for me in terms of less water retention, didn’t have huge swings in hormone levels and actually FELT far better.
 
Hyde

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Lmao!! Another Endo reinforces the stereotype that the people that go into that field are completely worthless.

Long term AI = DIM. I was skeptic at first after needing a bit of AI help on TRT. My doc recommended it and I very reluctantly tried it after she wouldn’t Rx me an AI. Dose as needed but I typically do 100mg/day on trt but have done 300mg a few times a day if I felt things had gotten away from me.

for guys on TRT, if you’re doing your own shots, instead of doing something like 0.9cc IM/wk. try doing M/W/F 0.3cc subq. It made a huge difference for me in terms of less water retention, didn’t have huge swings in hormone levels and actually FELT far better.
For myself, cruising between blasts, I feel best doing multiple weekly shots split up like that, and find DIM definitely does help as well.
 
Hyde

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What dosage with dim?
I use a 200mg cap. 100-200 is fairly common I think. I’ve used some labeled as 300 but I don’t think they really made any more difference, as the brand could have just been lying or lower quality.
 

mase1

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I have used dim and was just curious as the concensus on dosing. I have not had any estrogen issues ever, thankfully. I used it and it does act as a slight AI for me....
 
lionking999

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Sitting in the dr office as I type. I will try DIM. it’s been on my mind lately. already been taking inhibit e but doesn’t seem to be doing the full trick
 
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