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Starting hCG monotherapy

colkurtz_spf said:
My lipid profile was fine at 3 MG per week. Still, you never know what longterm use of anything can do.

My strength has actually increased. The funny thing is the diet I've been on, Jay Robb"s Fruit diet. I eat nothing but fresh fruit every 2 to 4 hours then a raw vegetable salad with a lean piece of protein, and some steamed or sauteed vegetables on the side for dinner. Saturday nights I have a cheat meal. Occasionally when I have a business lunch I'll have a salad with some protein, and on Saturdays when I workout in the morning I'll have a fruit smoothie with a scoop of zero carb weigh post workout. In the beginning I was afraid I'd lose muscle mass and strength, but the contrary has happened. All I'm losing is fat.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I do well on the low glycemic carb diets too. I actually have more energy. But I really enjoy eating, and I am reasonably lean.

So, you are only having one serving of protein of day? Is this just for short term? I don't think you need any more protein to be healthy, though I would think at a certain point it could impede your ability to maintain all of that muscle. But who knows, as everyone is different.

Good luck losing that weight. You'll be ripped in no time with your diligent diet.
 
jinxie said:
Yeah, I do well on the low glycemic carb diets too. I actually have more energy. But I really enjoy eating, and I am reasonably lean.

So, you are only having one serving of protein of day? Is this just for short term? I don't think you need any more protein to be healthy, though I would think at a certain point it could impede your ability to maintain all of that muscle. But who knows, as everyone is different.

Good luck losing that weight. You'll be ripped in no time with your diligent diet.
Click to expand...

I used to consume around 300 grams of protein per day. In February, after my in-laws left (lots of Polish food, beer and vodka) I tipped the scales at 262, so I tried this diet. I feel so good that I don't want to quit. I'm getting between 40 to 50 grams of protein from the fruit, and at at night around 100 to 120 from lean meats, vegetables, and nuts that I snack on throughout the evening. Weights and reps have gone up, and I've dropped over 30 pounds.
 
So I've been on 500iu 2x week now and don't feel any better. Its possible my E2 has spiked causing me to not feel the testosterone boost. Labs in a couple of days!
 
colkurtz_spf said:
I used to consume around 300 grams of protein per day. In February, after my in-laws left (lots of Polish food, beer and vodka) I tipped the scales at 262, so I tried this diet. I feel so good that I don't want to quit. I'm getting between 40 to 50 grams of protein from the fruit, and at at night around 100 to 120 from lean meats, vegetables, and nuts that I snack on throughout the evening. Weights and reps have gone up, and I've dropped over 30 pounds.
Click to expand...

Jak się masz?

How are you?

.
 
JanSz said:
After you mention (lots of Polish food)
I was expecting answer in Polish, but am glad that you are ok.
I am good too.
Tx for asking.
.
Click to expand...

My parents spoke it but I never learned the language. My wife understands it but her spelling is off so I avoided trying to impress you.
 
OK, completely off topic, don't shoot me...but on the subject of polish food...

I had a dish last week at a picnic that had noodles, sour cream (I think), bacon and I don't know what else and it was awesome.

Definitely a once in a while thing because it's probably a heart attack in a baking pan, but do either of you guys know the name of it?
 
Well, I have to admit I haven't laughed much in this thread up to this point, but the last few posts got me smiling.
Leanguy, hope the blood test results will help you. I'm betting 500iu is not going to increase your T enough. Take care.
-Rob
 
I am experiancing hair loss on 250 eod hcg mono. anyone else have this problem? using no other hormones. arimi .33 with hcg dose? any advice?
 
For some reason my labs are delayed... all I got was estradiol at 15... without adex!! I just know my T will still be low :( I'll bet its below baseline, meaning it would be higher without hcg.

Screw this compounded hcg I'm going to try pregnyl. If that doesn't work I'm closing this thread and going to test cyp + hcg. I'm sick of having hormone levels of an 80 year old. Sorry to rant... but I'm pissed off!!
 
LeanGuy said:
For some reason my labs are delayed... all I got was estradiol at 15... without adex!! I just know my T will still be low :( I'll bet its below baseline, meaning it would be higher without hcg.

Screw this compounded hcg I'm going to try pregnyl. If that doesn't work I'm closing this thread and going to test cyp + hcg. I'm sick of having hormone levels of an 80 year old. Sorry to rant... but I'm pissed off!!
Click to expand...

LeanGuy, I understand your frustration. But hang on there. You dont have the hormone levels of an 80 yr old. Look at your physique, dude. You're a lean, muscular guy. I think sometimes people make too much of these numbers. Don't get me wrong, you will likely feel better if you can get your TT around 800 or so, but recall, you were close to that with clomid and still didn't feel well. I suspect there is something else going on.

I've been reluctant to mention this, but since you are having such a hard time, alpha and beta blockers, including tenex, are known to impair pineal gland production, and thus melatonin, and are notorious for interrupting sleep. I had to stop mine, and I actually have tachycardia. I have a feeling that sleep still may be part of your problem. You also may wish to consider GH even if you 1gf1 levels are middle of the road. I understand some guys are getting it pretty cheap.

I dont know about your compounded hCG. But regardless, I think you need to stop messing with the puny doses, and do what Colkurtz and I did -- start higher. I started at 1500 IUs E3Ds, and I think you should try that much. Worry about E2 after you get the test up.

I've thrown a lot at you. Feel free to PM me. Hang in there.

J
 
jinxie said:
I've thrown a lot at you. Feel free to PM me. Hang in there.

J
Click to expand...

Hey jinxie, thanks for the encouragement... I'll figure it out... its just hard to find a doc who'll authorize huge doses of hcg... it still a mystery why I had such a good response at the beginning on low doses. My main complaints are the same... libido, erections and loss of sensitivity... even tried cialis and levitra and didn't help. Fortunately I have a hot wife who still thinks I perform great no matter what.

- Clomid won't make you feel good even if T is high because it blocks the positive effects of estrogen.

- My GH (IGF-1) is actually ABOVE range somehow. The tenex seems to be helping me get some sleep.

I truly think I'd feel better if I could get consistent T levels. Hopefully I can post the rest of my labs later today. Here is a semi-anonymous pic of my girl...
 
LeanGuy said:
Hey jinxie, thanks for the encouragement... I'll figure it out... its just hard to find a doc who'll authorize huge doses of hcg... it still a mystery why I had such a good response at the beginning on low doses. My main complaints are the same... libido, erections and loss of sensitivity... even tried cialis and levitra and didn't help. Fortunately I have a hot wife who still thinks I perform great no matter what.

- Clomid won't make you feel good even if T is high because it blocks the positive effects of estrogen.

- My GH (IGF-1) is actually ABOVE range somehow. The tenex seems to be helping me get some sleep.

I truly think I'd feel better if I could get consistent T levels. Hopefully I can post the rest of my labs later today. Here is a semi-anonymous pic of my girl...
Click to expand...

If you have the 10k vial, you have what it takes, wink wink, nudge nudge. And I would think Dr. Mariano would approve it. Read the insert, which lists higher doses for hypogonadism.

Have a good weekend.

J

P.S. Your wife is a good looking lady. I can see why you want to perform. I don't have a clue what your numbness is about, but would think it has something to do with NE levels possibly. Tenex can make it more difficult to get it up, like most blood pressure medicines. Have you tried bupropion? PM me if you want to discuss.
 
lets see...kruschiki ? sour krout ? the polish food my mom's family makes (fam is from buffalo, ny, the mecca of polish americans) is delish


rick055 said:
OK, completely off topic, don't shoot me...but on the subject of polish food...

I had a dish last week at a picnic that had noodles, sour cream (I think), bacon and I don't know what else and it was awesome.

Definitely a once in a while thing because it's probably a heart attack in a baking pan, but do either of you guys know the name of it?
Click to expand...
 
ok finally got my complete labs... its better than I thought. This is 500iu 2x week, pregnyl brand:

total T 671
estradiol 15
dhea-s 241

Tests taken day after injection. Weird that E2 isn't higher; low e2 could be affecting libido/erections as morning wood is weak. I'll continue this for awhile and see how I feel; may increase to 750iu.
 
LeanGuy said:
ok finally got my complete labs... its better than I thought. This is 500iu 2x week, pregnyl brand:

total T 671
estradiol 15
dhea-s 241

Tests taken day after injection. Weird that E2 isn't higher; low e2 could be affecting libido/erections as morning wood is weak. I'll continue this for awhile and see how I feel; may increase to 750iu.
Click to expand...

Not bad, but if you took these the after your injection, these numbers are a tad low, and given your E2 level, you could certainly take a larger dose without risking throwing E2 out of range -- indeed, the higher dose may bring your E2 into a more desirable range of 20 - 30, which is where it should be even with your test at 671 (20 to 1 ratio). I shoot 750 IUs twice per week, and, like you, I am a strong responder, and a true secondary.

Given your libido issues, I would recommend getting DHT tested. Perhaps when you retest at the higher dose. ; )

Good luck and way to hang in there. You've been at this for a while (including the time on Clomid), and I am glad to see things improving for you.
 
jinxie said:
Not bad, but if you took these the after your injection, these numbers are a tad low, and given your E2 level, you could certainly take a larger dose without risking throwing E2 out of range -- indeed, the higher dose may bring your E2 into a more desirable range of 20 - 30, which is where it should be even with your test at 671 (20 to 1 ratio). I shoot 750 IUs twice per week, and, like you, I am a strong responder, and a true secondary.

Given your libido issues, I would recommend getting DHT tested. Perhaps when you retest at the higher dose. ; )

Good luck and way to hang in there. You've been at this for a while (including the time on Clomid), and I am glad to see things improving for you.
Click to expand...


Thanks, I am doing OK... not a huge libido or anything but average is better than none! I agree, I need to bring my levels up a little more, and DHT is probably still in the lower half. I've been doing 600iu for a couple of weeks now and I'm re-doing labs next week. I'll post the results!
 
WHOA!

Totally unexpected high test level in today's labs... this is HCG 600iu E3D:

Testosterone, Serum 949 ng/dL [241-827] HIGH
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 94.1 ng/mL [32-100] good
Ferritin 56 ng/mL [22-322] low, going for 150
Estradiol, Sensitive WILL UPDATE
Progesterone WILL UPDATE

Damn, libido is still just ok... probably indicates low DHT and/or low dopamine.
 
Congratulations! That's outstanding. Hopefully you E2 will be in line.

Did you measure FT? I doubt your DHT is low with T that high. HCG raises DHT levels. In fact, it's a problem for some. I push 80 when my T levels cross 900. I've had levels as high as 114 on the larger doses. Your libido issue may be unrelated. You can test DHT, but it's not the cheapest lab.

LeanGuy said:
Totally unexpected high test level in today's labs... this is HCG 600iu E3D:

Testosterone, Serum 949 ng/dL [241-827] HIGH
Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 94.1 ng/mL [32-100] good
Ferritin 56 ng/mL [22-322] low, going for 150
Estradiol, Sensitive WILL UPDATE
Progesterone WILL UPDATE

Damn, libido is still just ok... probably indicates low DHT and/or low dopamine.
Click to expand...
 
engival said:
got SHBG?
that testosterone is dam high. most peopel dont respond to HCG as nearly well as you...
Click to expand...

A lot of people respond that well to HCG. I've pushed T levels over 1400 on it alone. If your condition is secondary you will respond. How well depends on the condition of your testes.
 
OMG, my E2 has gone through the roof! Its never been this high before. This explains why libido improved and then dropped off as E2 passed the sweet spot. This is crazy how I spontaneously started responding well to HCG again.. a little too well. I just popped .5mg adex when I got these labs. colkurtz, how much adex do you take?

Estradiol, Sensitive 74 [3-70] HIGH
 
LeanGuy said:
OMG, my E2 has gone through the roof! Its never been this high before. This explains why libido improved and then dropped off as E2 passed the sweet spot. This is crazy how I spontaneously started responding well to HCG again.. a little too well. I just popped .5mg adex when I got these labs. colkurtz, how much adex do you take?

Estradiol, Sensitive 74 [3-70] HIGH
Click to expand...

I take .5 MG with each injection, and my E2 stays under 30.
 
LeanGuy said:
OMG, my E2 has gone through the roof! Its never been this high before. This explains why libido improved and then dropped off as E2 passed the sweet spot. This is crazy how I spontaneously started responding well to HCG again.. a little too well. I just popped .5mg adex when I got these labs. colkurtz, how much adex do you take?

Estradiol, Sensitive 74 [3-70] HIGH
Click to expand...

I attempted to post a lengthy message last night, but something happen. I postulated that it was likely high E2. It works that way, once you cross a threshold. Mine was 90 when I was taking 1500 IUS E3ds. Now I take 1500 per week. I think your hCG dose is fine, and I think 1 mg/week of Adex should take your E2 to around 20. When I was around E2 75, that's what 1 mg did to me. I have a feeling that you will then be in the sweet spot. I lost my libido when my E2 got that high. Are you anxious, with hot flashes? No shoot.

I would change hCG to 700 mgs, twice weekly, with .5 mgs Adex with shot. I think .5 mgs E3Ds may be a little to much. You dont want to go below 20. Between between 20-30, than below 20, IMO, as it will dry out your joints, could cause adverse libid issues, and could reduce libido again. Slow and easy . . .

Way to stick to it -- you're almost there.
 
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jinxie said:
I attempted to post a lengthy message last night, but something happen. I postulated that it was likely high E2. It works that way, once you cross a threshold. Mine was 90 when I was taking 1500 IUS E3ds. Now I take 1500 per week. I think your hCG dose is fine, and I think 1 mg/week of Adex should take your E2 to around 20. When I was around E2 75, that's what 1 mg did to me. I have a feeling that you will then be in the sweet spot. I lost my libido when my E2 got that high. Are you anxious, with hot flashes? No shoot.

I would change hCG to 700 mgs, twice weekly, with .5 mgs Adex with shot. I think .5 mgs E3Ds may be a little to much. You dont want to go below 20. Between between 20-30, than below 20, IMO, as it will dry out your joints, could cause adverse libid issues, and could reduce libido again. Slow and easy . . .

Way to stick to it -- you're almost there.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jin, yeah I feel like I'm almost there. My anxiety and insomnia did flare up at the same time libido went down... I was like WTF? I think if I can stay in the sweet spot I'll feel better and sleep better! At least I have something to work with now.
 
Whoa, I think I am responding too well to hCG now... going to need to reduce the dose! I am not feeling this high TT level because E2 is still high. Also SHBG dropped. This is 600iu + .25 adex E3D:

10/06/09 Testosterone, Total 1486 ng/dL [241-827] H
10/06/09 Estradiol, Sensitive 58 pg/mL [3-70]
10/06/09 Testosterone, Free (calc) 50 ng/dL 3.36%
10/06/09 Testosterone, BAT (calc) 1145 ng/dL 77.1%
10/06/09 SHBG 19 nmol/L [13-71]
10/06/09 Albumin 4.2 g/dL [3.5-5.5]
 
You need to stop HCG a few days before labs or your not going to get an good reading they will always look high. Unless your doing HCG everyday most men I know on just HCG do it every day one sees Dr. Shippen he was doing shots every 3 days. He was talking to Dr. John one day some yrs ago and Dr. John told him to try 100 IU's everyday. He did this and felt so dam good he ended up at 60 IU's a day. Every one of the men I know that are Secondary on HCG only do the shot everyday this seams to work the best. Your doing less more often and this helps to keep Estradiol levels down and keep you more even.

I have tried a lot of different brands of HCG I find the best one for me is Novarel it only lasts 30 days after being mixed. There is a APP brand they use to make Novarel it will last 60 days but it dose not work well for me my levels fell on it.

If you can't find HCG the AlldayChemist has it but the water that comes with it is not any good it to be used the day you mix it. So you need to buy bacteriostatic water so it will keep in the fridge for 30 days.

I am Hypopituitary and don't do good on just HCG so I do shots I do them the same way Dr. Shippen dose for his self. I shoot 80 mgs every 3 days and I do HCG 400 IU's the 2 days each in between my Depo T shots this keeps me leveled and holds down my Estradiol levels.

Here is what I do using Arimidex to not go down to low.
=====================================
What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.
 
Not true! HCG creates a second spike in testosterone 2 to 3 days after the injection. If you're inject twice per week there is no way to avoid.

pmgamer18 said:
You need to stop HCG a few days before labs or your not going to get an good reading they will always look high. Unless your doing HCG everyday most men I know on just HCG do it every day one sees Dr. Shippen he was doing shots every 3 days. He was talking to Dr. John one day some yrs ago and Dr. John told him to try 100 IU's everyday. He did this and felt so dam good he ended up at 60 IU's a day. Every one of the men I know that are Secondary on HCG only do the shot everyday this seams to work the best. Your doing less more often and this helps to keep Estradiol levels down and keep you more even.

I have tried a lot of different brands of HCG I find the best one for me is Novarel it only lasts 30 days after being mixed. There is a APP brand they use to make Novarel it will last 60 days but it dose not work well for me my levels fell on it.

If you can't find HCG the AlldayChemist has it but the water that comes with it is not any good it to be used the day you mix it. So you need to buy bacteriostatic water so it will keep in the fridge for 30 days.

I am Hypopituitary and don't do good on just HCG so I do shots I do them the same way Dr. Shippen dose for his self. I shoot 80 mgs every 3 days and I do HCG 400 IU's the 2 days each in between my Depo T shots this keeps me leveled and holds down my Estradiol levels.

Here is what I do using Arimidex to not go down to low.
=====================================
What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.
Click to expand...
 
Those are awesome numbers. The ration of testosterone to E2 is high. What does are you on?

LeanGuy said:
Whoa, I think I am responding too well to hCG now... going to need to reduce the dose! I am not feeling this high TT level because E2 is still high. Also SHBG dropped. This is 600iu + .25 adex E3D:

10/06/09 Testosterone, Total 1486 ng/dL [241-827] H
10/06/09 Estradiol, Sensitive 58 pg/mL [3-70]
10/06/09 Testosterone, Free (calc) 50 ng/dL 3.36%
10/06/09 Testosterone, BAT (calc) 1145 ng/dL 77.1%
10/06/09 SHBG 19 nmol/L [13-71]
10/06/09 Albumin 4.2 g/dL [3.5-5.5]
Click to expand...
 
colkurtz_spf said:
Arimidex will convert E2 to testosterone. What will you do now? I assume you'll lower the dose slightly.
Click to expand...

yes definitely need to lower the dose. I may even skip a shot this week to let e2 come down.

pmagmer: thanks for all the info, especially about adex and morning wood. But I really don't want to do daily shots. I think I can find the perfect dose and keep it E3D.
 
LeanGuy said:
Whoa, I think I am responding too well to hCG now... going to need to reduce the dose! I am not feeling this high TT level because E2 is still high. Also SHBG dropped. This is 600iu + .25 adex E3D:

10/06/09 Testosterone, Total 1486 ng/dL [241-827] H
10/06/09 Estradiol, Sensitive 58 pg/mL [3-70]
10/06/09 Testosterone, Free (calc) 50 ng/dL 3.36%
10/06/09 Testosterone, BAT (calc) 1145 ng/dL 77.1%
10/06/09 SHBG 19 nmol/L [13-71]
10/06/09 Albumin 4.2 g/dL [3.5-5.5]
Click to expand...

Hey man, those are incredible numbers. Are you taking anything else that could have helped contribute to these levels? DHEA? Preg?
 
thenxtgrt1 said:
Hey man, those are incredible numbers. Are you taking anything else that could have helped contribute to these levels? DHEA? Preg?
Click to expand...

Yeah I am very surprised myself... with high E2 I sure don't feel it... except at the gym... strength increases and I've had several people mention I'm looking bigger. Now I feel like I'm cheating ;)

15mg DHEA is all I take... no other hormones. Supplements... vitamins, TOCO-8, creatine (I recently started this-- it doesn't raise T?)
 
I read this at Dr. John's forum he tells his men on shots not to do HCG the week of labs. I do my shots every 3 days and I do HCG the 2 days each in between my T shots I stop HCG a week before labs. If I don't my E2 levels show very high doing a Quest labs test #4021 range 13 to54 I show up in the 30's. Then I would do more Arimidex and and end up going to low. I know I went to low because I lose night time and morning wood and can't get it taking Viagra. And my Total T number so very high up past the top of the range 1100. Stopping the HCG a week before labs my E2 is 20 pg/ml and my Total T is 750. So what Dr. John says works for me I don't have my Dr. telling me my levels are to high and lowering my dose. I went through this for some time I do labs every 8 weeks and when the labs showed high my Dr. cut my dose then in 8 weeks doing my labs I am to low even taking HCG the day before doing labs.

For me this was a dam roller coaster ride.
colkurtz_spf said:
Not true! HCG creates a second spike in testosterone 2 to 3 days after the injection. If you're inject twice per week there is no way to avoid.
Click to expand...
 
There's a big difference here. Lean guy doesn't inject testosterone. HCG will skew results if you're on test. It's an entirely different matter.

I've been on monotherapy for over 3 years with the exception of a four month period, about a year ago when I tried the test/HCG combo. It was the only time I had difficulty with HCG dosing and schedule, and the results weren't nearly as good for me. I'm sure others do better, and I realize that someday I will probably have to cross that bridge again. In the meantime I have absolutely no trouble with morning wood, and my libido is off the hook. My dosing is simple: 750 IUs of HCG twice per week (not E3D). I take .5 mg of Arimidex with each injection. My lipid profile is outstanding, but my diet is in check and I exercise regularly. I don't even think about this anymore.

pmgamer18 said:
I read this at Dr. John's forum he tells his men on shots not to do HCG the week of labs. I do my shots every 3 days and I do HCG the 2 days each in between my T shots I stop HCG a week before labs. If I don't my E2 levels show very high doing a Quest labs test #4021 range 13 to54 I show up in the 30's. Then I would do more Arimidex and and end up going to low. I know I went to low because I lose night time and morning wood and can't get it taking Viagra. And my Total T number so very high up past the top of the range 1100. Stopping the HCG a week before labs my E2 is 20 pg/ml and my Total T is 750. So what Dr. John says works for me I don't have my Dr. telling me my levels are to high and lowering my dose. I went through this for some time I do labs every 8 weeks and when the labs showed high my Dr. cut my dose then in 8 weeks doing my labs I am to low even taking HCG the day before doing labs.

For me this was a dam roller coaster ride.
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This is great I wish I felt this good on HCG only but I don't it's been a long road for me you can read my story here in this link and the up date.
Invalid Link Removed
If the link dose not work please let me know.
My big problem now is heart meds that are giving me ED problems. I am back in the gym now working out 3 days a week getting stronger after having heart bypass sugary and being out cold 17 weeks I have come a long way and lucky to be alive.

My Heart Dr. feels all them yrs with low hormones caused my heart problems.
 
That's quite a story! I'm glad to hear you're doing well. Testosterone is more important to good health than most realize. The standard has been set low in my opinion.

I hope you continue to do well.

pmgamer18 said:
This is great I wish I felt this good on HCG only but I don't it's been a long road for me you can read my story here in this link and the up date.
Invalid Link Removed
If the link dose not work please let me know.
My big problem now is heart meds that are giving me ED problems. I am back in the gym now working out 3 days a week getting stronger after having heart bypass sugary and being out cold 17 weeks I have come a long way and lucky to be alive.

My Heart Dr. feels all them yrs with low hormones caused my heart problems.
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Thanks I am just glad I can still post and help men with this problem. At first when I come to I did not know were I was for days and I needed therapy to be able to think again.
 
Great information in this thread. I think I'll join in. I just started HCG therapy (first SQ injection was yesterday) and am sure I'll have some of the same questions that have already been answered in here.

LeanGuy has offered me some advice in my blood test thread, but it will probably be easier just to join yours. So... cheers.
 
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