Somebody Get Me A Doctor

[Jayhawkk]

Hey B, did I reply to your thread? I thought I did but...Damn, I think i'm losing my mind.

 

[B5150]

Oh, I know that, silly. I tapered down over three weeks. I am now 1 week off with only mild symptoms.

Yes you did, but I wanted THAT to remain off the record. No harm...just wanted it that way.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Understood I just didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. And I figured you were smart enough but that was directed more to those who were reading than you


Gonna be sending you a PM

 

[B5150]

OK, OK, and OK.

 

[yeahright]

Excellent progress on the lab values.

 

[B5150]

I am furious at this moment and I need to vent.

My first issue is with my insurance company.

I pay $150 every two weeks for major medical and prescription for an annual premium total of $3900.

My doctor co-pays are $30. My bloodwork co-pays are $30. My hospitalization co-pay is $150. I pay 10% or they pay 90% of the bill.

My hernia surgery:

The hospital bill was $8500. I payed $150 co-pay and 10% of the balance of $8350 for a total of $985.

The doctor office visit/consult was $335 and surgery bill was $2050 for a total of $2385 at a cost of 10% for an out of pocket cost of $238.

The anesthetician was $840 at a cost of 10% for an out of pocket cost of $84

$985 hospital
$238 doctor
$84 anesth
$1307 total

Remember that $3900 annual premium too. Sure I guess it sure would have been a lot more without the coverage.

My prescription plan:

I found out today that I have an annual prescription limit of $1000. Well guess what I have exceeded it already. Well this blows when you consider that Ambien is $140 and AmbienCR is $150 not to mention that I was on Effexor for several months. I have had one or two fills of the Ambien and several of the Ambien CR. So that would explain my reaching the anual limit. What would I do if I could not live witout those. AmbienCR at $150 x 12 months is $1800 alone. That blows the whole $1000 annual limit by itself.

I went to get my AndroGel prescription refill. I had previously been on 5g/day using the packets. Using the packets at that dose a box full would last me 30 days with a co-pay of $30. Well last month I got a free sample month of the pump. I could not stand to open those foil packets. I got two bottles for a 30 day supply of 5g/day. Well my doctor upped my dose. I went in to get my refills at 7.5g/d. Well at that dose a box of two pumps will only last 20 days. So that means that at 10g/day I would need two boxs a months.

Being as that my prescription coverage limit of $1000 upon this refill my co-pay was $88. I guess there must have been $58 dollars over my limit becuase my I have a co-pay of $30.

So I now have a $88 dollar bill for 20 days of AndroGel and a $140 bill for Ambien. So I figure I could live without the Ambien. But I need the AndroGel because I am surely suppressed at this point and quiting cold turkey would leave me worse off than I was.

So I get my refill of AndroGel but then it dawns on me that I will need this for...ever and my prescript coverage limit is expired. So I ask the pharmacist what the out of pocket cost on the box I just bought would be if I bought it outright. $250 dollars. Un-believable. In the two bottles combined there is a total of 1.5g of testosterone. 1.5 grams. I mean it comes in a very cool metered pump bottle. It is a foil pouch liner with a metered pump attached enclosed in a plastic bottle. $250!!! for two bottles of 1.5 grams worth of testosterone. If I went to 10g/d I would need four bottles. Even if my prescription limit balance was zero I would run out in two month...without the Ambien. Do you know how much a gram of testosterone is at 100g bulk price??? What about kilos, or mega kilos???? Those sons-of-*****es!!!

UUUUHHHGGGGG!!!!! Sorry, I had to get that out of my system.

Well suffice is to say that it looks like I am going to have to find an alternative. 10ml of prop at 200mg/ml is $76 out of pocket. Even at 200mg/week or 100mg/E3D that would last 8-10 weeks. Once my annual prescription balance is reinstated that would be $30 for 8-10 weeks. I wanted not to have to inject. Now those bastards are forceing me to go over to the darkside and start pinning. What will this lead to.

I am just so furious at this moment. Those SOB pharm companies. I was pissed at the oil companies. Now theses bastards are on my list!!!

I'm going to take a shower and cool down. Forgive me

 

[Jayhawkk]

Hey B if your rx coverage is anything like mine then sometimes they will only cover so much of a product a year. And some falls into a category that is a % and not a set co-pay.

And if you knew that and that isn't the problem you can do what I did. tell the doc your situation and get them to give you free samples.

 

[yeahright]

Sorry man. It sucks that our country treats medical care like any other commodity rather than a human right like all the other developed nations in the world.

 

[B5150]

'preciate it guys...thanks!

I cleaned up my post.

It will all work out.

 

[glg]

You haven't gotten to the part where they say it's not on their formulary so they won't pay anything at all.

It's either too new or they want you on a cheaper (read less effective) Rx.

It's all about profit man..they don't care aboput your health ..only your wallet.

 

[SJA]

Nice to see you acting out again.....LOL. What would a B thread B without the rant

Looks like progress is coming......BTW....you and I both know where this will lead....mUUUUHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAA:twisted: :twisted:

 

[B5150]

Oh...I am devising startegies as we speak

 

[jmh80]

B - you ain't hollaed at me??
What's up?

 

[B5150]

I keep missing your time zone. Too many different boards, e-mails, etc and I get to loosing track of myself and time. Not to mention all the banning that has to be done around here.

What is your daytime schedule look like?

 

[SJA]

Oh...I am devising startegies as we speak

I had no doubt.....LMFAO. We'll talk soon Brother.

Give Jordy my new number please....I miss that kid.

 

[B5150]

I had no doubt.....LMFAO. We'll talk soon Brother.

Give Jordy my new number please....I miss that kid.

Thanks for the call. Good to hear your voice.

You ever see the sit-com 'Two and a half men'? I thought of it when you mentioned the kid. Now, of course I would prefer to be Charlie (Sheen)...but I'm guessing we both share attributes of both Charlie and Alan (Jon Cryer). Boy, what a life. You, me, Jordan a house on the beach, a maid, .... oh...wake-up!!!

I am becoming frustrated with the amount of discussion on this new HRT forum. I have made a personal request to a very experienced board member that he share his experience. No reply or participation. I have made an inquiry with a very board and industry reputable Dr. to share his professional experince and also offered a leadership role. No reply either way.

I really enjoyed our discussion this morning. I know you are very busy at this time, but when things slow down for you I would really enjoy sharing more board time with you.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Thanks for the call. Good to hear your voice.

You ever see the sit-com 'Two and a half men'? I thought of it when you mentioned the kid. Now, of course I would prefer to be Charlie (Sheen)...but I'm guessing we both share attributes of both Charlie and Alan (Jon Cryer). Boy, what a life. You, me, Jordan a house on the beach, a maid, .... oh...wake-up!!!

I am becoming frustrated with the amount of discussion on this new HRT forum. I have made a personal request to a very experienced board member that he share his experience. No reply or participation. I have made an inquiry with a very board and industry reputable Dr. to share his professional experince and also offered a leadership role. No reply either way.

I really enjoyed our discussion this morning. I know you are very busy at this time, but when things slow down for you I would really enjoy sharing more board time with you.

Sounds good to me. I could use tha extra hamstring training.

I bet with wheeling those wheelchairs around all day uphill I could put on an additional 1"-1.5" on my hammys in no time...

AND if that don't work, I'll hook ya both up like a sled and haul ass up and down tha boardwalk. Just make sure to bring your :whip:

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Oh and BY THE WAY, last time I checked Alan's son got nothin' on me...

 

[B5150]

Snap...

Lean and mean my boy

 

[AGELESS]

I am becoming frustrated with the amount of discussion on this new HRT forum. I have made a personal request to a very experienced board member that he share his experience. No reply or participation. I have made an inquiry with a very board and industry reputable Dr. to share his professional experince and also offered a leadership role. No reply either way.

.

Hey B5150 Don't be discouraged or frustrated.

Maybe just maybe lack of response is due to the good ole boys at the DEA.

I recently talked to a doctor friend who just got "Board Certified" in HRT I asked him to join AM and help on this forum. Here is his reply:

I got your message and I think it's pertaining to this. One thing they told us at A4M was NEVER EVER to affiliate with any groups which appear to have physique enhancement even as a PART of their agenda. The DEA is watching everyone prescribing test/growth,etc;and I'm not going to do
anything which could get me even investigated. I'm sure you understand.

It's the nickname for American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine---4 A's and
an M......

I don't blame himfor pretecting himself as he has alot to lose.

It's not fair...(the first thing I learned about life) I walk around in a water park here in Fla. and hear the whispers "steriods" They don't whisper "3 days a week in the gym for years" ...

I tell ya B, if I die tomm. from hemrhoids, or a ingrown hair..it will be blamed on steriods. (go figure)

Sorry about the rant...it's probably my med's.

 

[B5150]

AGELESS,

In light of what you share, I do understand. Sadly, there are too few knowledgeable people to discuss these things with. Thanks for stopping bye. I really do appreciate what you can share. Thanks again

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

FYI, I paged Androgenic much like I put a bug in Dozier's ear...

 

[SJA]

Holy crap Toad.....you are getting HYOOOOGE!!! What's in your Wheaties???

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Holy crap Toad.....you are getting HYOOOOGE!!! What's in your Wheaties???

Now that's an idea, me on tha cover of Wheaties someday.

Limited Edition Wheaties™:

Now with Overcome™ and Never Give Up™ Soy Crisps

... Yeah, I like that.


Honestly, I've just got smarter with my body. Every year I've made little adjustments that have made big net differences over time. Of course you can't have all good with out tha bad, and one of life's little ironic twists came in tha form of actually getting so lean that I've spotted a small hernia that was hidden previously by mangina fat. ... Go figure.

:frustrate:

 

[B5150]

Toad has now joined the hernia club. Like fathers like son.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Geebus dude, it's been like 10 days now...

This thing needs an update.

 

[B5150]

Nothing new to share right now. I have been keeping my training log, which has been met with with underwhelming response. I got my blood draw last week. We will see what the results are when I go to my appointment of Tuesday. My one concern is estradiol levels with the increased dose. I am also going to request IGF-1 while I am there this time.

I am going to have to get a script for cyp/e because my presription annual coverage limit has already been exceeded. This means all prescriptions are 100% out of pocket. AndroGel, at the 7.5g/d dose, is a 20 day supply. The cost is $230 out of pocket. If I have to bump to 10g/d that would require 2 boxes for a 30 days supply for a total of $460 out of pocket expense. Not going to happen. I looked into test depot (cyp/e) at my pharmacy and it is <$80 for 10cc/200mg. I would likely need a max dose of 100mg/w. So that would be 20 weeks worth for $80. A lot more reasonable.

 

[Jayhawkk]

My God B!!!! I just ate two pop tarts I need intervention.

Oh yeah, Toad you have a freaky odd physique. Those traps look like they came off some kind of human-gorilla genome experiment.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Nothing new to share right now. I have been keeping my training log, which has been met with with underwhelming response.

You mean you actually have friends other than me?

... I must of missed that one.:run:

Oh yeah, Toad you have a freaky odd physique. Those traps look like they came off some kind of human-gorilla genome experiment.

...and I'm sure everything will get even more 'freaky odder' over time. Certain muscle groups just supercompensated for tha lack of function in others. Overall I'm pleased that I've done a decent job (IMO) at balancing out what I can. Traps I'm just blessed with, much like my ability to walk. My left is noticably bigger and there has to be some transference from my right as I can't shrug that left side. Even still, I don't do any shrug work because of that.

 

[Jayhawkk]

jesus. blessed is an understatement.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

jesus. blessed is an understatement.

Yep, you just gotta talk to him.

The spoken word is stronger than the strongest man
Carries the whole world like the strongest hand
Through the trials and tribulations you neva let us down
JESUS!
I know your here with us now
JESUS!
I know your still wit us now
Keep it real wit us now
I wanna feel show me how (PLEASE)
Let me take your hand, guide me
Ill walk slow but stay right beside me
Devil's tryna find me
Hide me, hold up I take that back
Protect me and give me the strength to fight back!

[Hook:]
Let me know whats on your mind
Let me know what im gone find
Its all the time
Show me how to teach the mind
Show me how to reach the blind
Lord give me a sign!

Show me what I gots to do
To bring me closer to you
Cuz im gonna go through
What ever you want me to
Just let me know what to do
Lord give me a sign!

 

[B5150]

I am just back from my Dr's office visit. My levels were fair.

Total test: 677 (250-1100)
% free test: 1.25 (1.1-2.8)
free test: 84.8 (35.0-155.0)
LH: 1.4 (0.8-7.6)

But I have to say that I am furious at this moment. As I mentioned in earlier posts, my insurance annual prescription coverage has run out. So I am left to have to pay out of pocket. This makes AndroGel out of the question. So we discussed my desire to begin injection so that I could afford to pay out of pocket for it.

We began to discuss doses. Here is where we had some conflict. She was wanting to dose me 350-400mg E3W. I explained to here that old school medicine suggests that protocol. New protocol has been established by those working in the field. It suggests weekly doses to reduce hormone fluctuation. At this point I flipped through the pages of Dr. John's article to begin to provide some quotations. I proceded to say that I have been in discussion with an endo and he suggests...She shut me down.

I won't be prescribing once a week injections...period. This is what doping athletes and bodybuilders do. I will not risk my license by being associated with that practice. I explained to her that I understand the stigmas and stereo-type that comes with the use of testosterone and how it may appear to your fellow medical practicioners. She said "It's not them...it's the media". I will not risk my license.

I explained that new advances in TRT have been made and that "this" endo suggests once weekly injections. He is a specialist in the field of Anti-Aging and TRT.

"Go see him then."

I then told her that I wanted a referral to an endo. They are so limited in my area and so limited by my insurance plan I will likely find no one that has any idea how to practice TRT effectively.

So before I left I let her inject me with 400mg of test. At this point I have no choice really. I am out of AndroGel and cannot afford to pay for it out of pocket. I am suppressed for sure so I cannot just stop cold turkey. For now I will have to follow her protocol until I find other means. She wants me to get a blood draw in two weeks. So ignorant.

 

[pmgamer18]

You can do compounded cream that I feel is better then the gels and cost is less then shots or the same. Also if you need to show your Dr. about shots you never show a Dr. a different Dr.'s works most will shut you down. Go to this link it is the AACE Guildlines and read page 11 hell read the whole then on page 11 it startes to do shots every 7 to 10 days she can't argue with this.
http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

And this is a link to Collage Pharmacy call them and ask them what it cost to compound a cream = to your does of Androgel.
College Pharmacy - Contact
Phil

I am just back from my Dr's office visit. My levels were fair.

Total test: 677 (250-1100)
% free test: 1.25 (1.1-2.8)
free test: 84.8 (35.0-155.0)
LH: 1.4 (0.8-7.6)

But I have to say that I am furious at this moment. As I mentioned in earlier posts, my insurance annual prescription coverage has run out. So I am left to have to pay out of pocket. This makes AndroGel out of the question. So we discussed my desire to begin injection so that I could afford to pay out of pocket for it.

We began to discuss doses. Here is where we had some conflict. She was wanting to dose me 350-400mg E3W. I explained to here that old school medicine suggests that protocol. New protocol has been established by those working in the field. It suggests weekly doses to reduce hormone fluctuation. At this point I flipped through the pages of Dr. John's article to begin to provide some quotations. I proceded to say that I have been in discussion with an endo and he suggests...She shut me down.

I won't be prescribing once a week injections...period. This is what doping athletes and bodybuilders do. I will not risk my license by being associated with that practice. I explained to her that I understand the stigmas and stereo-type that comes with the use of testosterone and how it may appear to your fellow medical practicioners. She said "It's not them...it's the media". I will not risk my license.

I explained that new advances in TRT have been made and that "this" endo suggests once weekly injections. He is a specialist in the field of Anti-Aging and TRT.

"Go see him then."

I then told her that I wanted a referral to an endo. They are so limited in my area and so limited by my insurance plan I will likely find no one that has any idea how to practice TRT effectively.

So before I left I let her inject me with 400mg of test. At this point I have no choice really. I am out of AndroGel and cannot afford to pay for it out of pocket. I am suppressed for sure so I cannot just stop cold turkey. For now I will have to follow her protocol until I find other means. She wants me to get a blood draw in two weeks. So ignorant.

 

[B5150]

Thanks Phil. I'll look into it.

 

[yeahright]

I am just back from my Dr's office visit. My levels were fair.

Total test: 677 (250-1100)
% free test: 1.25 (1.1-2.8)
free test: 84.8 (35.0-155.0)
LH: 1.4 (0.8-7.6)

But I have to say that I am furious at this moment. As I mentioned in earlier posts, my insurance annual prescription coverage has run out. So I am left to have to pay out of pocket. This makes AndroGel out of the question. So we discussed my desire to begin injection so that I could afford to pay out of pocket for it.

We began to discuss doses. Here is where we had some conflict. She was wanting to dose me 350-400mg E3W. I explained to here that old school medicine suggests that protocol. New protocol has been established by those working in the field. It suggests weekly doses to reduce hormone fluctuation. At this point I flipped through the pages of Dr. John's article to begin to provide some quotations. I proceded to say that I have been in discussion with an endo and he suggests...She shut me down.

I won't be prescribing once a week injections...period. This is what doping athletes and bodybuilders do. I will not risk my license by being associated with that practice. I explained to her that I understand the stigmas and stereo-type that comes with the use of testosterone and how it may appear to your fellow medical practicioners. She said "It's not them...it's the media". I will not risk my license.

I explained that new advances in TRT have been made and that "this" endo suggests once weekly injections. He is a specialist in the field of Anti-Aging and TRT.

"Go see him then."

I then told her that I wanted a referral to an endo. They are so limited in my area and so limited by my insurance plan I will likely find no one that has any idea how to practice TRT effectively.

So before I left I let her inject me with 400mg of test. At this point I have no choice really. I am out of AndroGel and cannot afford to pay for it out of pocket. I am suppressed for sure so I cannot just stop cold turkey. For now I will have to follow her protocol until I find other means. She wants me to get a blood draw in two weeks. So ignorant.

Really sorry to hear that.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Wow, talk about being a pioneer.

You are taking this whole Learn: Teach: Lead thing to a whole new level

This thing is far greater than you Brian, although temporarily disappointed, see tha bigger picture & appreciate tha journey.

 

[B5150]

Jordan,

I am hardly a pioneer. I have spent some several hundreds of dollars between co-pays for office visits, co-pays for bloodwork (which by the way she still does not have recorrect) and have exhausted my insurance prescription coverage for the rest of the year, while I have patiently waited for her to get on board with the program and protocol.

I am not an expert by any means. But I have dedicated a lot of time researching and inquiring with at least one credible practitioner. She is waisting my time and money and putting my body under undue fluctuations in my hormones by trying to implement an archaic TRT protocol. This is simply do to the stigma associated with weekly injections. No other reason.

"You went to college to be stupid. That's stupid" ~Sonny Corleone

 

[yeahright]

One would think that the recommended protocols fro aace would influence her. She is in fact practicing medicine AGAINST the best available recommendations. She's mor elikely to get into trouble with her license for doing that IMO than in giving you weekly injections.

 

[B5150]

I considered mailing a copy of it to her. I have yet decided if I will continue to follow up with her. I am angered more by her obstinance than ignorance.

 

[yeahright]

Well, it might be effective to address what her stated concerns were (yes, we know her real issues).....but her stated concerns were that weekly injections weren't the generally recognized standard of care for TRT and that she could get in trouble for deviating from the standards.

So, you show her what the standards are.....and explain that you're wanting to be treated according to the best accepted practices as decided by her peers who specialize in TRT. She's actually protecting her medical license by prescribing weekly injections rather than ignoring the best medical protocols as decided by her profession.

See what I mean.....you work her around to seeing how it's in her interest to do what you want?

Sure, she's a ****head who should have done this research herself and is more concerned with what her colleague in the office nextdoor said than with your health....but if you're stuck with her as a provider, then this is how I'd approach it.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Jordan,

I am hardly a pioneer.

You do realize this IS tha future. Your experience will become more and more common.

Who else is logging these events?

On what boards?

You very well could keep all this to yourself. You love this board a great deal and it shows.

Through good or bad people will learn from your experiences as you are initiating new practices within tha medical community.

Quit being so damn humble.

 

[B5150]

Quit being so damn humble.

Love you too. You're a good kid