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Some gda questions

gabe2500

New member
I'm looking at buying either need2slin vs recompadrol with na rala vs slin sane with na rala. Which of those would you recommend as an insulin mimicker? From my limited understanding gdas are like the prohormone version of insulin? Weaker but effective enough to get hypo if not careful. Since I will be bulking soon and using large pwo carbs will this stuff be comparable to even 5iu of humalog? I have read differing opinions on using insulin mimickers before a 50+carb pwo shake and wondered about whether its better to reserve an insulin mimicker for other meals. I have also heard read about people taking slin sane before bed and wondered if that is applicable for recompadrol or need2slin. Would it make sense to have a gda with a preworkout shake right before I train and then right after I train before my pwo shake. If someone could point me in the direction I would appreciate it.
 
Bulk Na-R-Ala, nothing more. Slin-sane and recompadrol may actually be bad for a bulk due to the MOA of Gymnema. Also, GDAs taken postworkout are a waste...muscle insulin sensitivity is maximized during that period, why would you want to mimic insulin?

Just take whatever GDA you pick, preferably Na-R-Ala, with all your high carb meals except post workout. The lengthy halflife of Na-R-Ala should have you covered the whole day. Go Geronova-licensed.
 
Thanks for the quick and informative reply, but I dont understand why you would not want increase insulin postworkout considering thats how humalog is used? Im not doubting you, I just want to know the reason.
 
No thread hijacking intended- I was going to buy slin-sane for a clean bulk, but now it sounds I could benefit from using something like Invalid Link Removed ?

I don't have any way of measuring the dose, but I see a lot of people recommend 1/4 tsp 3-4x/day. (5-15 mins prior to a big carb meal). Is that ideal? For my schedule I'd probably take Na-R-Ala 2x/day at a 1/4tsp.
 
gabe2500 said:
Thanks for the quick and informative reply, but I dont understand why you would not want increase insulin postworkout considering thats how humalog is used? Im not doubting you, I just want to know the reason.
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Humalog is a VERY different animal from any of these OTC GDAs. A comparison can't really be done. You DO want to increase insulin postworkout. But muscle insulin sensitivity is already naturally maximized, so taking a GDA won't hurt you, it just won't help you much either, hence it being a waste since GDAs cost $$. The GDAs you mentioned do far more than humalog. Gymnema, for instance, actually slows/blocks the absorption of carbs, which doesn't seem to be what you're after.

Ross88 said:
No thread hijacking intended- I was going to buy slin-sane for a clean bulk, but now it sounds I could benefit from using something like Invalid Link Removed ?

I don't have any way of measuring the dose, but I see a lot of people recommend 1/4 tsp 3-4x/day. (5-15 mins prior to a big carb meal). Is that ideal? For my schedule I'd probably take Na-R-Ala 2x/day at a 1/4tsp.
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The only 2 GDAs I ever use are that bulk Na-R-Ala you just linked and Slin-sane. The two complement each other perfectly. The one that I got actually has a little scooper in it, so I think you're fine from the dosing perspective. Na-R-Ala has a halflife of 17-22 hours, so just take it twice a day IMO and you should be fine. 200-300mg each dose.
 
was going to send a PM, but i need more posts. anyways, curious to hear your opinion mr.cooper. here's my copy paste :P


could i effectively use bulk na-rala as a stand-alone?

i've tried to do some reading on GDA's and the body's response to certain herbs/etc. i'll pick apart more articles in the next week or so, but basically my main concern is that if i take na-rala by itself, i'll be speeding up fat gains if my bulking diet is not on par (since the insulin mimicker works through the GLUT4). it seems some supplements are added with ingredients to help prevent any excess carbs from reaching fat cells. of course those "ingredients" might be negligible and not affect body recomposition

it also seems exercise alone will help prioritize nutrients being shuttled into muscle tissue, and not fat cells. so maybe gaining excess fat isn't a real concern while taking na-rala and weightlifting, and as long as im eating a clean diet i shouldn't expect much fat gain.

hopefully i've got everything right, im just curious to read your opinion. thanks!



and on a side note, i'll be happy to not use slin-sane as im not a fan of l-norvaline. Invalid Link Removed
 
You could most definitely use bulk Na-R-Ala standalone. The fat gain you are mentioning may actually be reduced by using an insulin mimetic.

And yes, exercise is the best nutrient partitioner, which is why I recommend NOT taking any GDA postworkout.

That norvaline study has many flaws for our purposes btw.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Bulk Na-R-Ala, nothing more. Slin-sane and recompadrol may actually be bad for a bulk due to the MOA of Gymnema. Also, GDAs taken postworkout are a waste...muscle insulin sensitivity is maximized during that period, why would you want to mimic insulin?

Just take whatever GDA you pick, preferably Na-R-Ala, with all your high carb meals except post workout. The lengthy halflife of Na-R-Ala should have you covered the whole day. Go Geronova-licensed.
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I don't know if coop is still checking this thread but why would Gymnema be bad for a bulk? Gymnema would increase insulin secretion which is not a bad thing during a bulk.
 
Rostam said:
I don't know if coop is still checking this thread but why would Gymnema be bad for a bulk? Gymnema would increase insulin secretion which is not a bad thing during a bulk.
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May block carb absorption. Not conducive to a bulk.
 
Recompadrol is bad for a bulk? That's disappointing to know. Any recompadrol reps want to dispute that?
 
I thought recompadrol was supposed to "shuttle" carbohydrates into the muscles and away from fat? What happened to that?
 
Rostam said:
Same for Glycophase.
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So neither one of them are "shuttling" carbohydrates into muscles like they say huh? What a shocker
 
Other ingredients will assist in the "shuttling". Look up the MOA of Gymnema for yourself. Do independent research yourself and draw conclusions.
 
aaronuconn said:
Other ingredients will assist in the "shuttling". Look up the MOA of Gymnema for yourself. Do independent research yourself and draw conclusions.
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I was expecting this response. Lol Yes but if Gymnema blocks update of carbs in the guts I don't see the point of using any product with Gymnema in it, either for bulk or recomp. What is the point of putting Gymnema in glycophase if it blocks carbs uptake?

Here is some info on Gymnema

Invalid Link Removed
 
"It causes inhibition of glucose absorption from intestine: gymnemic acid molecules fill the receptor location in the absorptive external layers of the intestine thereby preventing the sugar molecules absorption by the intestine, which results in low blood sugar level. Receptor blockade is established quickly and persists for about 5 hours, decreasing sugar absorption of about 50%."

Not sure this is a good thing for a bulk or recomp. Even if combined with other ingredients.
 
Rostam said:
I was expecting this response. Lol Yes but if Gymnema blocks update of carbs in the guts I don't see the point of using any product with Gymnema in it, either for bulk or recomp. What is the point of putting Gymnema in glycophase if it blocks carbs uptake? Here is some info on Gymnema Invalid Link Removed
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GlycoPhase is more geared towards cutting.
 
aaronuconn said:
Other ingredients will assist in the "shuttling". Look up the MOA of Gymnema for yourself. Do independent research yourself and draw conclusions.
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ok will do thanks
 
Rostam said:
I was expecting this response. Lol Yes but if Gymnema blocks update of carbs in the guts I don't see the point of using any product with Gymnema in it, either for bulk or recomp. What is the point of putting Gymnema in glycophase if it blocks carbs uptake?Here is some info on GymnemaInvalid Link Removed
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Yeah I'm not really down with that, Where's the recompadrol rep? The guy was all over me the other day because of a problem with another ingredient in the formula. Something that reduces hypertrophy. I'll prob just use it once in a while for meals with sh1t food like pizza or whatever. Not like it was all that much money anyway
 
Rostam said:
Okay.But other products like Pslin were purely promoted for bulk. But got Gymnema in it.
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Fark huh, I hate when supps don't pan out and I find out after I buy them
 
They limit fat gain also because they block glucose uptake. This is not the purpose of a bulk.
 
Rostam said:
Okay.

But other products like Pslin were purely promoted for bulk. But got Gymnema in it.
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I can't speak for other products of course.

You have to look at GlycoPhase, or whatever product, as a whole as well versus just an individual ingredient.
 
Understand, but honestly if I'm bulking I don't like to take a product that will block up to 50% of carbs.
Now you say your product is designed for cut. Faire enough. But I'll not use it or similar products for a bulk just because there are other ingredients that could be good when bulking,even if they are promoted as such (like Pslin). This is why I prefer to use single bulk powders in the dosage I feel adequate for me.
In reference to a GDA for bulking I prefer to go with other options like ALA.
 
fightnews said:
Yeah I'm not really down with that, Where's the recompadrol rep? The guy was all over me the other day because of a problem with another ingredient in the formula. Something that reduces hypertrophy. I'll prob just use it once in a while for meals with sh1t food like pizza or whatever. Not like it was all that much money anyway
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Bro you need to chill. People aren't always on the forums.

Need quick response? My email is available to everyone

Your beef with the hypertrophy was mechanism related which we touch on numerous things that can do the same thing

My beef isn't with your questions. It's your lack of independant research and needing to be spoon fed answers.

Information is there for all and I always answer when I see a thread.
 
EBF Inc said:
Just reductions in adipogenic hormones while taking said products. Leading to less fat
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By adipogenic hormone do you mean insulin? If so isn't it proven that Gymnema (which is one of the ingredients of said product) does increase insulin secretion?
 
Rostam said:
They limit fat gain also because they block glucose uptake. This is not the purpose of a bulk.
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You think it's all about just having a huge surplus?

What about having enough food to stimulate anabolic responses in appropriate tissues while reducing the effect if some ingested food

Ie:

500 cal increase but using a "carb blocker" as you guys call it. Net increase is still surplus. But you get to eat more food

If you don't like it, other products are for you
 
aaronuconn said:
GlycoPhase is more geared towards cutting.
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This.

Cooper pointed this out to me some time ago.

Glycophase can be useful on a bulk though; using them pre cheat meal (not scheduled refeed) can helped reduce the 'damage'.
 
EBF Inc said:
You think it's all about just having a huge surplus? What about having enough food to stimulate anabolic responses in appropriate tissues while reducing the effect if some ingested food Ie: 500 cal increase but using a "carb blocker" as you guys call it. Net increase is still surplus. But you get to eat more food If you don't like it, other products are for you
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We can not call it 500 cal surplus if 50% of it does not pass the guts because of one of the ingredients. That's what I said! for bulk or even recomp. I prefer other options.
 
Rostam said:
We can not call it 500 cal surplus if 50% of it does not pass the guts because of one of the ingredients. That's what I said! for bulk or even recomp. I prefer other options.
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You can enjoy your improved fat gain to muscle gain then on your +500 surplus

And for the record, it won't block simple sugars.
 
EBF Inc said:
You can enjoy your improved fat gain to muscle gain then on your +500 surplus And for the record, it won't block simple sugars.
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Again I will not call it 500 surplus if half of it is not absorbed.

Are you suggesting 500 surplus in the form of simple sugars?
 
And I don't see why you say it won't block simple sugar. Once carbs are digested they are simple sugars ( glucose) and Gymnema will block the absorption of glucose. It doesn't matter if it comes from bread or sacharose.
 
EBF Inc said:
Bro you need to chill. People aren't always on the forums.

Need quick response? My email is available to everyone

Your beef with the hypertrophy was mechanism related which we touch on numerous things that can do the same thing

My beef isn't with your questions. It's your lack of independant research and needing to be spoon fed answers.

Information is there for all and I always answer when I see a thread.
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Excuse me but it says right on the bottle to use it on a bulk. Does it not say product educator in your sig? Why do I have to research all the ingredients? Isn't it reasonable to think the product works as claimed? It doesn't say only good for a cut on the label. So can you educate me on how the product is good for a bulk because so far all my feeble minded research has turned up nothing but negatives?
 
fightnews said:
Excuse me but it says right on the bottle to use it on a bulk. Does it not say product educator in your sig? Why do I have to research all the ingredients? Isn't it reasonable to think the product works as claimed? It doesn't say only good for a cut on the label. So can you educate me on how the product is good for a bulk because so far all my feeble minded research has turned up nothing but negatives?
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Have you read the write up or the different mechanisms which it works?

I've gone over that a hundred times this past month

There's something negative for almost every ingredient.

Break down of why it works

Increases in PPARa, AMPk

Decreases in PPARy, ACL, FAS.

What does that mean for the user?

Reduction in lipogenic and adipogenic hormones.

Why is this good on a bulk, reductions in lipid droplet formation and formation of mature fat cells
 
EBF Inc said:
Have you read the write up or the different mechanisms which it works?

I've gone over that a hundred times this past month

There's something negative for almost every ingredient.

Break down of why it works

Increases in PPARa, AMPk

Decreases in PPARy, ACL, FAS.

What does that mean for the user?

Reduction in lipogenic and adipogenic hormones.

Why is this good on a bulk, reductions in lipid droplet formation and formation of mature fat cells
Click to expand...

Just letting you know, I will let users speak for the product here on out as arguing/getting into a pissing match is not my style.

I presented you with a lot of information and where's it's coming from.
 
EBF Inc said:
You think it's all about just having a huge surplus?

What about having enough food to stimulate anabolic responses in appropriate tissues while reducing the effect if some ingested food

Ie:

500 cal increase but using a "carb blocker" as you guys call it. Net increase is still surplus. But you get to eat more food

If you don't like it, other products are for you
Click to expand...

That is exactly my point. It's near enough impossible to eat just enough of a surplus to gain muscle only, so I use it to limit or prevent fat gain whilst not having to worry about trying to manipulate calories to the nth degree. Of your one of the lucky few who can eat a 500 cal surplus and not gain fat, good for you. If you're like the rest of us then there's huge value in using this.
 
We're missing the forest for the trees here. GDAs will reduce fat gain on a bulk and aid fat loss on a cut. Both are good things guys
 
@ cooper, Now your confusing me because in this thread and some other threads you seemed to say Gymnema in a bulk or on a low carb diet ( except for refereed).

And what about glucose uptake inhibition potential of Gymnema? If this potential does exist, I still don't see why it is a good idea to take it in a bulk. There are other options that don't have this action.
 
EBF Inc said:
Just letting you know, I will let users speak for the product here on out as arguing/getting into a pissing match is not my style. I presented you with a lot of information and where's it's coming from.
Click to expand...

There is no pissing match. And we are not arguing your product but Gymnema.

- You said it doesn't block simple sugars, but from what I read it seems to inhibit uptake of glucose.

- You said it lowers adipogenic hormones. If you are taking about insulin from what I read Gymnema seems to increase insulin secretion.
 
Rostam said:
@ cooper, Now your confusing me because in this thread and some other threads you seemed to say Gymnema in a bulk or on a low carb diet ( except for refereed).

And what about glucose uptake inhibition potential of Gymnema? If this potential does exist, I still don't see why it is a good idea to take it in a bulk. There are other options that don't have this action.
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Gymnema blocks glucose uptake. You're completely right, it's not optimal for a bulk, but it looks like everyone is treating it like it's a "bad thing." It's not. It's just not optimal for a bulk
 
Two of my favorite GDA's of all time... P-Slin and Recompadrol I have used while bulking and they have helped me limit damage from excess cals and especially cheat meals.

I'll even use Recompadrol before fasted training, then start sipping on a BCAA/Highly branched cyclic dextrin drink at the tail end of my workout and then slam down 150g carbohydrates post workout and notice excellent muscle fullness, glycogen retention and remain pretty dry all throughout my bulk.

And let's be honest, many of us go overboard on a bulk and no matter how much we say we're going to keep It 100% clean it's almost impossible. Recompadrol before those dirty massive cheat meals does wonder in limiting the damage. But I have bulked successfully while limiting fat gain using both P-Slin and Recompadrol
 
Rostam said:
There is no pissing match. And we are not arguing your product but Gymnema.

- You said it doesn't block simple sugars, but from what I read it seems to inhibit uptake of glucose.

- You said it lowers adipogenic hormones. If you are taking about insulin from what I read Gymnema seems to increase insulin secretion.
Click to expand...

It wasn't with you. It was with fightnews
 
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