Snagency Primordially shifts to V2.0, 16-week bodybuilding prep with Andro Series

Always amazed by your legs and how lean your waste is Snag, it looks like the hormones like you! I would be very interested to see what 8-10 weeks of test prop would do for you but I get the feeling this is as far as it goes. I went to the darkside, never coming back, Vader throws the best parties anyways, lol!
 
@oufinny - no needles for Snags!! huhhh-uhh. :nono:
i'm a big sissy when it comes to them. :run:

@HTS - well, sure, i have "access". :D
and i've used cissus before (great stuff, i'm a big fan), but i'm trying to do as little supps as possible in this run.
if joints get too bad i'll consider..one thing that occurred to me tho after i typed it, could be from my carb meal + all the salt and water i'm running right now.
i don't wanna get too many supps in the fray, so as to be sensitive only to what i'm taking.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
@oufinny - no needles for Snags!! huhhh-uhh. :nono:
i'm a big sissy when it comes to them. :run:

@HTS - well, sure, i have "access". :D
and i've used cissus before (great stuff, i'm a big fan), but i'm trying to do as little supps as possible in this run.
if joints get too bad i'll consider..one thing that occurred to me tho after i typed it, could be from my carb meal + all the salt and water i'm running right now.
i don't wanna get too many supps in the fray, so as to be sensitive only to what i'm taking.
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Typically carbs + sodium would aid in joint comfort --- more water via glycogen and extracellular from Na.

Just the painful side effect of getting lower in BF

-Matt
 
Although I need to look into the fact that LEan + Hard could give some joint discomfort as HARD lowers estrogen and LEAN lowers cortisol --- but the cortisol is local to the 11-Bhsd enzymes

-Matt
 
I think I am correct that this may have to do with the changing of the guard also. Weren't you on AndroMass before, seems I read about one of the ingredients in that one being very joint friendly and I am pretty sure that there is not any of it in the AndroHard. Also I think the Mass had something that would have had you a little more wet compared to AH. So on top of not having something really aiding the connective tissue you may simply have less lubrication from not retaining water.

PP Reps any thoughts on that?
 
END WEEK #9
7 WEEKS OUT FROM SHOW

Weight: Coming in ~188 this morning.. Due to a cheat night on WED (last one of prep; not planned, just brought on by depression), not much movement in composition this week.

Strength: In the tank this week.

Stamina: See above.

Drive: See above.

Recovery: Meh, was average - but effort and intensity were lacking this week so there wasn't the usual damage to recover from.

Discussion:
Past the halfway mark - and man, was it a miserable week.
This was like nothing I have experienced to this point - ever.
Starting ~last Monday/Tuesday I was running into lethargy issues, just couldn't seem to find my energy & drive. Altho that is abating somewhat now after having played tennis yesterday, I'm still not my usual "fast-paced" self..Also experienced some stiff joints on TUE, was tight and felt immobile.
Then ~Wednesday/Thursday, I started experiencing some depression. I mean, deep depression, where it took every ounce of my will to force myself into the weight room. I don't know if this was from knowing the upcoming w/e is another holiday I'll be spending away from my kids, or what - but it's definitely not been fun. I sense a little difference here this morning, better, like this fog is lifting..gawd, i hope so.
Point of reference - I have not had these experiences in any other prep. I mean sure, I have had "energy blocks" where I felt lagging for isolated instances, and self-doubt and pressure from the experiences of prep, but I've never had outright depression.
Weird. And will obviously keep this situation monitored.
That's about the extent of this week.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
Then ~Wednesday/Thursday, I started experiencing some depression. I mean, deep depression, where it took every ounce of my will to force myself into the weight room. I don't know if this was from knowing the upcoming w/e is another holiday I'll be spending away from my kids, or what - but it's definitely not been fun. I sense a little difference here this morning, better, like this fog is lifting..gawd, i hope so.
Point of reference - I have not had these experiences in any other prep. I mean sure, I have had "energy blocks" where I felt lagging for isolated instances, and self-doubt and pressure from the experiences of prep, but I've never had outright depression.
Weird. And will obviously keep this situation monitored.
That's about the extent of this week.
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Take comfort in knowing that the childhood years of raising a son are but a moment in time compared to the lifetime worth of influence you can and will have on him. Display undying dependability both physically and emotionally. The truest display of a father's character is see through the eyes of their children. Endure the heart ache and persevere with peace and joy for this will pass. The adult relationship you will have with your son is as valuable as any other time in his life as you will then be the man a man can turn to. God can heal and restore all things.
 
David Dunn said:
Take comfort in knowing that the childhood years of raising a son are but a moment in time compared to the lifetime worth of influence you can and will have on him. Display undying dependability both physically and emotionally. The truest display of a father's character is see through the eyes of their children. Endure the heart ache and persevere with peace and joy for this will pass. The adult relationship you will have with your son is as valuable as any other time in his life as you will then be the man a man can turn to. God can heal and restore all things.
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Wow David I am impressed... that is how I see it too. One thing growing up with him (yah I grew just as much as he did) I was able to place myself in his shoes and it really helped me to be more loving and a better father. I mentioned this to Steve about a month ago. I got a call from my son and he was stressed. I was able talk him down and at the end he told me I was his hero... I never felt so good in all my life.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think I am correct that this may have to do with the changing of the guard also. Weren't you on AndroMass before, seems I read about one of the ingredients in that one being very joint friendly and I am pretty sure that there is not any of it in the AndroHard. Also I think the Mass had something that would have had you a little more wet compared to AH. So on top of not having something really aiding the connective tissue you may simply have less lubrication from not retaining water.

PP Reps any thoughts on that?
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Could play into a bit. The 4dhea would provide some estrogen, but the androhard is very androgenic, so the product as a whole is hard to consider wet. Most users have considered it somewhere between dry and average. It is funny, but some guys just lean to hell on it. R1Balla logged andromass, and was becoming frustrated that he was leaning while trying to gain weight. The answer for those guys is just massive cals.

AndroHard + Mech would be dry though. Which might be more the reasoning (if looking for a hormonal cause) than the switch off of the AndroMass. Not that I am saying AH + Mech is a bad stack, I will be using both as part of my upcoming cycle.
 
David Dunn said:
Take comfort in knowing that the childhood years of raising a son are but a moment in time compared to the lifetime worth of influence you can and will have on him. Display undying dependability both physically and emotionally. The truest display of a father's character is see through the eyes of their children. Endure the heart ache and persevere with peace and joy for this will pass. The adult relationship you will have with your son is as valuable as any other time in his life as you will then be the man a man can turn to. God can heal and restore all things.
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thank you, David. I appreciate your words.
 
Keep going strong Snag. I feel everything will work out with you and your kids, and the fact that you go all out with your workouts/diet/bodybuilding lifestyle I can only expect you do the same as a dad. Keep on being an inspiration man and everything will fall into place.
 
As long as they always know that you are there to depend on they will be fine. Like DW, my son just calls me to know that I have his back and am there to offer any help he needs. All the best champ!
 
For what its worth, I only saw my dad every other weekend through visitation, and I don't see him any differently than I should as my father. He did a good job of letting me know he was there for me whenever, do the same and the father-child distance won't be far, at least on a mental level.
 
Snags... I have something worked out with my ex-wife where instead of getting my daughter every other weekend, I get her 1 weekend day per week (Sunday...typically). Anyway, I don't know if this is the case and I do know this is not always possible, but my daughter's Mom & I have an incredible ex-spousal relationship, we truly are on what I call "Team Ava" my daughter's name. What we do, how we act, how we discipline, pretty much everything is shared and decided together as a team and she is even happily remarried, not the case for me, I'm currently going through another divorce (no children). Anyway, my point here is that the relationship I have with my daughter's Mother is a huge, huge help in my relationship with my daughter, so if at all possible get on the same track with your Children's Mother!
 
Snag --- keep going strong brother.

You know you can consult with me ANYTIME and I will try my best to get you through this --- You have progressed very nicely and are on track to make a big splash!

Being shredded DOES NOT FEEL GOOD! True story,..,.

-Matt
 
ScottyDoc said:
Snags... I have something worked out with my ex-wife where instead of getting my daughter every other weekend, I get her 1 weekend day per week (Sunday...typically). Anyway, I don't know if this is the case and I do know this is not always possible, but my daughter's Mom & I have an incredible ex-spousal relationship, we truly are on what I call "Team Ava" my daughter's name. What we do, how we act, how we discipline, pretty much everything is shared and decided together as a team and she is even happily remarried, not the case for me, I'm currently going through another divorce (no children). Anyway, my point here is that the relationship I have with my daughter's Mother is a huge, huge help in my relationship with my daughter, so if at all possible get on the same track with your Children's Mother!
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Yah have to put the kids first ... and try and get along. I like that way you said Team Ava, gets the point across.
 
Snags, I would not run an AI any longer during this run. THe AH does not aromatize and neither does the Mechabol, if you are using an AI on top of that you are very likely crashing your estrogen. As you already know you need some of the estrogen and you tend to feel completely off your game when Estro is too low. Energy, libido, emotional state mental drive and general sense of well being can all be effected negatively when your estro goes to low.
 
I believe he mentioned using one earlier in the log. I could be mistaken.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Snags, I would not run an AI any longer during this run. THe AH does not aromatize and neither does the Mechabol, if you are using an AI on top of that you are very likely crashing your estrogen. As you already know you need some of the estrogen and you tend to feel completely off your game when Estro is too low. Energy, libido, emotional state mental drive and general sense of well being can all be effected negatively when your estro goes to low.
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Yes, this. When I took AndroHard at the beginning of my cycle that was 300mgs of Test C and 350mgs of Prop, I barely needed an AI due to the AH. Chris is spot on, use it only if needed. If you are holding water, use dandelion root extract to help any of those sides.
 
Yah the danelion root will work wonders with the AH, does anybody know what dosage to use over the long term so many fo the products are for the last 4 days etc... I like to use it over 4 weeks and slowly dry out...
 
END WEEK #10
6 WEEKS OUT FROM SHOW

Weight: Coming in ~188 yet again. Not a lot of change this week

Strength: Still in the tank..

Stamina: See above.

Drive: See above.

Recovery: Not much to recover from, took 4 days off this week.


Discussion:
I am still not my usual happy-go-lucky, double-skip down the sidewalk self yet, but things seem to be getting better.
Still feeling weak as hell, joints are stiff even tho I've done nothing to make them sore.
I have no clue what this lil episode was all about, but glad as hell it's getting bigger in my rear view mirror.
Full updates and pics coming at the w/e.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
END WEEK #10
6 WEEKS OUT FROM SHOW

Weight: Coming in ~188 yet again. Not a lot of change this week

Strength: Still in the tank..

Stamina: See above.

Drive: See above.

Recovery: Not much to recover from, took 4 days off this week.


Discussion:
I am still not my usual happy-go-lucky, double-skip down the sidewalk self yet, but things seem to be getting better.
Still feeling weak as hell, joints are stiff even tho I've done nothing to make them sore.
I have no clue what this lil episode was all about, but glad as hell it's getting bigger in my rear view mirror.
Full updates and pics coming at the w/e.
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Lets hope this is the turning point.
 
HereToStudy said:
Lets hope this is the turning point.
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eishh, indeed let's hope. :sick:

on a brighter note: i started me some Anrdo LEAN today, beta version.
cool-looking lil buggers, they look like bloody mary in a cap. :evil:
on a sider sidenote: i still cannot get over the smell of the AH vs. the AM or AL.
yuck, guys @primordial - get that shyte fixed!! :eek:
 
Hope you start feeling better, nothing like feeling in the crapper when it is go time. Have you tried adding in a little oral DHEA say 50mg per day to start? Give yourself something to convert into a little estrogen, if you are shut down right now you have nothing in your system to convert and you need a little estro conversion. Will help the joints, mood and anabolism of the products you are using. Not saying for sure it will help but I bet it will and DHEA is like 5 bucks at any groceries store.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Hope you start feeling better, nothing like feeling in the crapper when it is go time. Have you tried adding in a little oral DHEA say 50mg per day to start? Give yourself something to convert into a little estrogen, if you are shut down right now you have nothing in your system to convert and you need a little estro conversion. Will help the joints, mood and anabolism of the products you are using. Not saying for sure it will help but I bet it will and DHEA is like 5 bucks at any groceries store.
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as communicated in PM Chris - thank you for this.
Matt concurs with the AI stance, and dhea has been implemented temporarily.
 
END WEEK #11
5 WEEKS OUT

Weight: Still sitting 187ish.

Strength: Gettin in back lil by lil..still not close to normal levels.

Stamina: Really shadowing my Strength commnet above.

Drive: Still hurting. Everything remains more effort than it should be.

Recovery: This category remains, to me, the most important aspect -- and, like the other cateogories above, is off pace from first 8 weeks of run.



Discussion:
Not all hunky-dory here, BUT I feel I am on the upswing. Things are looking brighter (mentally), weights are starting to come around..recovery picking up a tad. I lost my "eye of the tiger", somehow and somewhere..now, it's time to see if it's too late to resuscitate this operation.



(on a sidenote: 5 weeks away?? what happened to all those 16 weeks I had?)
 
snagencyV2.0 said:

(on a sidenote: 5 weeks away?? what happened to all those 16 weeks I had?)
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Time flys when you're having fun? Hope that things pick up for you quickly; sounds like they're coming full circle for and for the better. Good luck.
 
Haven't seen a pic in a bit, I know when you feel blah that is your impression of yourself too. Why don't you post one up and let us tell you if we see improvement you aren't could be good for the spirit.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Haven't seen a pic in a bit, I know when you feel blah that is your impression of yourself too. Why don't you post one up and let us tell you if we see improvement you aren't could be good for the spirit.
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lol oh you think i'm ducking you now eh?? :trout:
ahahaaa..well, yeah i been feeling blah, and ain't been looking too swell either..dint figure there was really anything to show. that, and my photographer had to be out of town this w/e, so we're going for next week. that'll give me a week of (hopefully) feeling good again and being able to get some consistent and intense training in again. and put us 4 weeks out. seems like a good point for update pics.
 
Still taking the Mechabol? Any thoughts on that being the issue?
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
yep, still taking all three.
as for pinpointing the cause - no clue.
i have absolutely no thoughts or theories on understanding this weirdness, att..just observing things, right now.
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I am experiencing some mood shifts the last couple weeks as well.. the ignite 2 gets me through my workouts in fne style though...
 
Well lets hope that everything keeps looking up and you feel better soon.
 
just for you tho Chris, update pic from this morning.
lil watery from carb day yesterday.
and, need a shave this week.

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Honestly if you ask me you are leaner in this picture. You have more separation in your abs and serratus, there is a new line separating the lower abs on the right side and also the fine lines attaching the serratus to the abdomen are visible as strands. I don't remember seeing this before. I have a feeling you made some progress regarding fat loss even though you feel blah.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Honestly if you ask me you are leaner in this picture. You have more separation in your abs and serratus, there is a new line separating the lower abs on the right side and also the fine lines attaching the serratus to the abdomen are visible as strands. I don't remember seeing this before. I have a feeling you made some progress regarding fat loss even though you feel blah.
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Yah Chris is right I noticed the extra separation in the abs immediately...
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
just for you tho Chris, update pic from this morning.
lil watery from carb day yesterday.
and, need a shave this week.

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Fugg dat shiz Bro... you look so hard/solid! I mean yes, I can see you need to shave and I do see the tiniest bit of water-retention around the belly-button (which is all nothing in the grand scheme of things, we both know that), but the rest is just so solid, you're gonna kill this competition Bro... Nice work!
 
Even though you went through a ill-feeling patch, the conditioning is looking good.
 
you guys are all too very kind, thank you.
BUT if i can just get in a groove the rest of the time, i will put this pic to shame in very short order.
legs on tap this morning, tennis this afternoon..haven't gotten a match in for awhile, let alone both legs/tennis performed same day..
fyi - this is the last week of playing tennis during prep. cardio for duration will be done thru mountain biking/neighborhood sprinting/HIIT treadmill, planned 4x weekly.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
you guys are all too very kind, thank you.
BUT if i can just get in a groove the rest of the time, i will put this pic to shame in very short order.
legs on tap this morning, tennis this afternoon..haven't gotten a match in for awhile, let alone both legs/tennis performed same day..
fyi - this is the last week of playing tennis during prep. cardio for duration will be done thru mountain biking/neighborhood sprinting/HIIT treadmill, planned 4x weekly.
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Getter done :) My pace has been very hectic as well, I am finding just enough energy to recover for next day, I can feel myself slowing down a bit but still do what I can...all we can do...
 
I am far from too kind I would tell you if you backslid this week, especially since you have a deadline. Since your weight is the same and you are probably a good .5-1 lb leaner I am just letting you know that head games aside you still made progress this week. Maybe not what you could have it you had your intensity on tap but you still made some head way. Now you seem to be feeling more positive so if that upswing continues I know you will be killing it.
 
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