Should I go on HRT? Take 2

[Nemesis RR]

Recap from old thread:

I am 38 years old and starting to show the signs of (aging) lower test levels. I still have a great body, strong as a bull, and have never used any steriods. I don't say this to brag just as backround information. It has been a lot harder lately to stay in shape, having problems sleeping, don't have the libido I once had, don't have the mental clarity I once had, recovery is horrible, jewels have gotten smaller, and most heart breaking I can not stay awake around 4:00 PM. No drugs or alcohol problems ever. I have had serious blows and injuries to the body thou. An MRI of my head was done and everything came back OK. Aches and pains in the joints and muscles are getting worse and worse.

My blood work was at taken at 10:30 AM

total was at 429 ng/dL reference scale of 241-827
free was at 15.8 PG/ml reference scale of 8.7 - 25


New blood work done at 1:30 PM (8 months later) after not eating for 5 hours and previously only having a light breakfast.


Total test:_________ 362 ng/dl 241-827
Free test _________ 15 pg/ml 8.7-25

T4 (free) _________ 1.14 ng/dl .61 - 1.76
T4 _________ 6.6 ug/dl 4.5 - 12
T3 _________ 106 ng/dl 85-205

Estradiol _________ 25 pg/ml 0 - 53

TSH _________ 1.624 uIU/ml .350 - 5.5
LH _________ 3.4 miu/ml 1.5 - 9.3
FSH _________ 2.5 miu/ml 1.4 - 18.1

IGF-1 _______________ 227 ng/ml 109-284

Glucose _________ 91 mg/dl 65 - 99

What do you guys think? By the way doctor already said I could benefit from TRT?

 

[BigAk]

Nemesis.... Did you read my post to you on the other board??

 

[Nemesis RR]

Nemesis.... Did you read my post to you on the other board??

Yes I did and I appreciate the time you put into it. BUT as I type this I have a fog over my head / slight headache that is stopping me from going to the gym, wrestling, or reading (I have 3,000 pages of it due to my work.) I am seeing my body slowly deteriorate. My type A personality that is a huge part of my success is now gone. Motivation is gone. Mind you my life is great. I have nothing to worry about. My family is great. My job is great. I feel though if I do not take action I will just continue to deteriorate. Also while I cannot go into it in detail my mental focus, energy, and alpha male personality have a HUGE bearing on my income and future retirement package.

 

[rick055]

Also while I cannot go into it in detail my mental focus, energy, and alpha male personality have a HUGE bearing on my income and future retirement package.

I understand exactly, it is the same for me.

And when I continued to wake up tired and - for the first time in my life - had to FAKE being on top of my game, I drew labs too.

Mine are very similar to yours.

The way I see it, you have three options:

1. Do nothing and continue to deteriorate (is this really an option?)

2. Try to ramp up natural production via hCG

3. Hit the test.

I started transdermals a few weeks ago. There's lots to consider and it's a personal decision. I have more energy, but would not say my agressiveness is back yet. I am better, though for sure.

I appreciate your dilemma, I probably had all the same thoughts. Do I want to do this the rest of my life, etc...

In it's simplest form, if I had to choose between doing nothing, feeling worse or taking test and trying to be "me" again, well, you know what I chose.

As a bonus, I not only think it's safe, I think it is healthier than having low test.

Just my unprofessional 2 cents.

Good luck whatever you do.

 

[JanSz]

Yes I did and I appreciate the time you put into it. BUT as I type this I have a fog over my head / slight headache that is stopping me from going to the gym, wrestling, or reading (I have 3,000 pages of it due to my work.) I am seeing my body slowly deteriorate. My type A personality that is a huge part of my success is now gone. Motivation is gone. Mind you my life is great. I have nothing to worry about. My family is great. My job is great. I feel though if I do not take action I will just continue to deteriorate. Also while I cannot go into it in detail my mental focus, energy, and alpha male personality have a HUGE bearing on my income and future retirement package.

There is few posters (quite few) on this board who ask questions, then are hoping for miracle. Some take postion that helping themselves with medications is a personally offensive act.

The younger they are the more time they waste considering that faith did not play fair in their case.

(alpha male personality have a HUGE bearing on my income and future retirement package)

Make an substantial effort to retire early.
Set your self a yearly spending goal.
Multiply that x25
Save like crazy to get the 25x.
Invest in something that you do not have to watch too often.
Quit job.
Be your own man do what pleases you.
Make sure that you get there on your 45th birthday.
==============

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
post #44

Do the whole blood test list.
E-mail the list to your doctor and ask that hi prints it on his office stationary and sign it.
Go to Quest Diagnostics draw blood there.
-----

Do the Genova
(GDX - Metabolic Analysis Profile) including (GDX - Cellular Energy Profile)
and
ONE Optimal Nutrition Evaluation

(there are some overlaps, do each test once only)
-------------------------------------------------
Post results,
we will discuss them here and figure out how to help you.

Full bore help for the body is better, in my view, rather than trickling type.

strong as a bull

 

[Nemesis RR]

There is few posters (quite few) on this board who ask questions, then are hoping for miracle. Some take postion that helping themselves with medications is a personally offensive act.

The younger they are the more time they waste considering that faith did not play fair in their case.

(alpha male personality have a HUGE bearing on my income and future retirement package)

Make an substantial effort to retire early.
Set your self a yearly spending goal.
Multiply that x25
Save like crazy to get the 25x.
Invest in something that you do not have to watch too often.
Quit job.
Be your own man do what pleases you.
Make sure that you get there on your 45th birthday.
==============

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
post #44

Do the whole blood test list.
E-mail the list to your doctor and ask that hi prints it on his office stationary and sign it.
Go to Quest Diagnostics draw blood there.
-----

Do the Genova
(GDX - Metabolic Analysis Profile) including (GDX - Cellular Energy Profile)
and
ONE Optimal Nutrition Evaluation

(there are some overlaps, do each test once only)
-------------------------------------------------
Post results,
we will discuss them here and figure out how to help you.

Full bore help for the body is better, in my view, rather than trickling type.

strong as a bull

I don't know what you are trying to say. If you are saying that I want agression to have aggression you are wrong. I want energy and mental focus that I have lost.

 

[JanSz]

I don't know what you are trying to say. If you are saying that I want agression to have aggression you are wrong. I want energy and mental focus that I have lost.

Just do the tests, forget the rest.

 

[Nemesis RR]

Just do the tests, forget the rest.

Is there anything that can be said about my latest blood work?

 

[JanSz]

Is there anything that can be said about my latest blood work?

Low Total Test
Low Free test
missing FreeT3
Estradiol wrong test
========================

To little information to figure out most anything.

On another board you talk about taking steroids, forget about it, the sooner the better.
Should I do a cycle before HRT? - Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding

 

[anyman]

It is obvious that your T is low. However, your tests are incomplete

Your T is way too low for a 38 yt old man. However, to say more we'd need to see DHT, SHBG, IGF-1, DHEAS and even cortisol. People with low shbg tend to do OK with lower T afaik.

In any event, your presence here and post says it all. You know in your gut that something is amiss. I'm no Dr, but low T sure as hell looks like a factor. The issue, of course, is WHY is it low. Ever take Propecia for hair loss? Any other drugs like SSRIs/ Anything else? You'd be surprised what can effect you. Check your prolactin and iron levels as well to rule out tumors and hemechromatosis.

Don;t rush into TRT just yet. Try to find the root cause and fix it. If not possible then take then next steps.

 

[superone]

What would propecia have to do with it? I see this come up a lot.

 

[MarkLA]

What would propecia have to do with it? I see this come up a lot.

Generally it leaves people with lower DHT than normal, but that is not a rule. The side-effects seem to have been greatly downplayed.

Knowing the possible downsides, I would not have taken it myself. IMHO Better to be bald than have f**ed up hormones.

http://www.propeciahelp.com has forums dedicated to finasteride recovery.

Mark

 

[anyman]

Take one look at Dr Shippen's face when you mention "Propecia" and you'll know.

What would propecia have to do with it? I see this come up a lot.

While Propecia (actual name: Finistaride) doesn't always result in AES, or "acquired eunuch syndrome" as I call hypogonadism, it has been implicated in far too many cases. I took it a good 8-10 yrs ago to combat slightly thinning hair. I can't prove it, but I tend to think my problems originated with it.

 

[Nemesis RR]

Your T is way too low for a 38 yt old man. However, to say more we'd need to see DHT, SHBG, IGF-1, DHEAS and even cortisol. People with low shbg tend to do OK with lower T afaik.

In any event, your presence here and post says it all. You know in your gut that something is amiss. I'm no Dr, but low T sure as hell looks like a factor. The issue, of course, is WHY is it low. Ever take Propecia for hair loss? Any other drugs like SSRIs/ Anything else? You'd be surprised what can effect you. Check your prolactin and iron levels as well to rule out tumors and hemechromatosis.

Don;t rush into TRT just yet. Try to find the root cause and fix it. If not possible then take then next steps.

Yes I did around 5 years ago. I will look more into it. I don't think this is the cause thou as my brother who never took propecia, is younger, and in good shape has Total Test of only 200 with more pronounced symptons than me.

Also I saw the same symptons in our father.

I have added IGF-1 but cannot find the other tests. I will look further and contact my doctor as they were requested.

 

[anyman]

Propecia may or may not have caused your issue, but I'll bet it plays a factor.

Yes I did around 5 years ago. I will look more into it. I don't think this is the cause thou as my brother who never took propecia, is younger, and in good shape has Total Test of only 200 with more pronounced symptons than me.
Also I saw the same symptons in our father.

In fact, I'll wager that is plays a significant part, although genetics certainly seems to be a part of the equation in your case.

Either way, more tests are in order. Good luck.

 

[superone]

I took Finesteride and Dutasterid in the past, but had to quit due to side effects.


But when i quit all my sides went away. I went on and off the drugs a bunch of times to see if i would get the sides again.



In may i took my last Dutasteride pill, and then for the first time ever, started taking heavy stimulants, then i ended up crashing and getting adrenal fatigue, very low DHEA-S and Cortisol in normal range, although on the higher side.


Dont know if Dutasteride played a role in this, but i was a lot more prone to stress while on it.



The fact that Nemesis RR said he took Finesteride, scares the crap out of me because he's like the 100th guy who used Finesteride, and is having these problems.



I dont get it, you are only lowering DHT and when you stop taking the drug DHT levels will return to normal, and everything should return to normal.



I think a possible remedy to counter the sides if you want to take propecia or avodart, is to use low dose testosterone with an aromatase inhibitor?

 

[anyman]

There is no remedy for Propecia/Finistaride effects

The fact that Nemesis RR said he took Finesteride, scares the crap out of me because he's like the 100th guy who used Finesteride, and is having these problems.

I think a possible remedy to counter the sides if you want to take propecia or avodart, is to use low dose testosterone with an aromatase inhibitor?

Based on my reading I don't think there is a remedy those those most hardly hit by it. Dr Shippen is of the opinion that it can in some people make PERMANENT changes. Stay awayfrom it. I wish I did, but 10 yrs ago nobody knew of these possibilities.