Sheriff Joe

[timmmah]

Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself with other people's 'wickedness' unless it materially impacts your life.

Yeah, let's wait until something happens to us before we take a stand against criminals. Give everyone a chance, right? And rapists and child molesters? Give them another chance to rape again because they haven't been convicted yet? FUUUCK NO! That's why people are kept in jail until sentencing. And Joe's-pink-underwear-green-balogna-sandwiches-110-degrees jail? You may find this hard to believe but it's full of criminals.

And what you fail to realize is there is no such thing as The Right People. And even if there were a magic group of The Right People, they'd eventually die and leave all the power they used benevolently in the hands of lesser men like you who would then proceed to **** the world up beyond belief.

:nono:
There is such a group, you're not in it. I am. So is Zero V
America lacks discipline

 

[dsade]

And next up on Sheriff Joe's menu...destroying evidence from an active lawsuit. Nothing to see here, folks.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/02/04/20100204arpaio-sanctions-over-records.html

.
An attorney for the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office told a federal judge that the agency destroyed documents it should have retained as part of a racial-profiling lawsuit, opening the door for sanctions against Sheriff Joe Arpaio's agency.

Tim Casey, an attorney representing Arpaio, admitted to U.S. District Judge G. Murray Snow that deputies destroyed "stat sheets" generated in Arpaio's controversial "crime suppression operations" and had also failed to retain thousands of emails, all of which the agency could have turned over to plaintiffs' attorneys in the lawsuit.


The plaintiffs' attorneys, who represent five people claiming sheriff's deputies detained them because of their skin color, filed a motion asking Snow for sanctions in November.

The hour-long hearing Thursday was the first chance for both parties to make their case in front of Snow, who essentially separated the destroyed "stat sheets" from the deleted emails.

Casey said that confusion among deputies over which stat sheets to retain and a lack of communication about keeping emails led to the lost and destroyed documents. Attorneys for the plaintiffs claim the material would show the Sheriff's Office engaged in selective enforcement during the crime-suppression operations.

"Doesn't that make information that might have been contained on those stat sheets relevant?" Snow asked, which Casey did not dispute.

Snow then asked if the legal requirement for sanctions was met when it came to the destroyed stat sheets.

"Yes," Casey replied.

Snow held off on the sanctions ruling and told both parties to return for a conference in mid-March. By then, the sheriff's attorneys should have turned over thousands of emails related to the activities of the Human Smuggling Unit.

Attorneys for the plaintiffs, including the American Civil Liberties Union and lawyers from Steptoe and Johnson, who also represent The Arizona Republic, claim the emails should have been preserved from the time the lawsuit was filed in December 2007.

Sheriff's officials either ignored that stipulation or didn't adequately communicate it to members of the Human Smuggling Unit.

Casey told the court on Thursday that any Human Smuggling Unit emails generated before Oct. 31 were gone, unless they were specifically saved. Casey said emails from the unit during a 28-day period in November added up to more than 400,000 documents while about 3,800 emails remained from all of 2007 and about 9,800 from 2008.

"It's a problem that has to be addressed with the (Sheriff's Office) so it's not repeated," he said. Casey reminded the court that sheriff's personnel testified that the deleted emails were "chit chat" and anything relevant to the case was produced.

In the last two months, the Sheriff's Office has turned over about 1,000 pages of documents to the plaintiff's attorneys.

Peter Kozinets, an attorney for the plaintiffs, said the case represents an egregious violation of the sheriff's discovery duties.

"More than two years have gone by and for us to be getting this now is simply intolerable," Kozinets said.

 

[kingjameskjf]

The thing is if this was an average person just being accused would have him locked up in his lovely jail. I believe in paying for your crimes. However if any of you think any prison is a vacation, you're dead wrong. Try being locked up from your family, girlfriend, and friends for a year or more regardless of having weights or being able to watch cable TV. **** cable TV I wanted to touch my girlfriend. Sh*t happens, it could happen to any of you. If a police officer doesn't like you, he could plant drugs on you or even just say you hit him and it's their word against yours. The judicial system in the US isn't just. And Sheriff Joe arpaio isn't helping, just b/c he keeps your taxes down. When he's taking your rights away you'll wish you hadn't voted for him.

I do agree that if he is convicted of a crime, then he should be held just as accountable as anyone else and receive his proper punishment.

 

[Zero V]

The founding fathers would commit mass suicide at what people label as democracy today if they were still kicking.

CDB most of what you said makes no sense at all. Its like you spent too much time in a dream world of what is perfect and what we want the present to be.

As for the food thing...How much has the cost of food went up yearly now? How fewer jobs are there each year, and how many more children are born this year than last. No matter what, any man with a decent intelligence can see whats coming. This planet has Finite space, and in so Finite resources, and in so as there are more people to less resources take a wild guess at what ensues?

Has the history of man so completely eluded you? We have destiny that demands for some stupid reason(95% of the time its greed, or a modified emotion based off greed) that we spill the blood of each other for personal gain. Its built into the genetic weakness of the wicked.

I am unsure of the ideology you represent, because you are neither a normal American, nor someone on my side of the fence. You would cling to your ideas like a woman, even as she slides the blade slowly into your heart.

Time for change is coming. It matters not what we debate about on this forum, I have met many men like minded to me, some with far more drive, many ex-military with far more abilities to ensue such changes will someday come about.

America will follow the natural cycle of all nations. If you need to know what that cycle is, go back to school because you missed far too much.

Every one I meet is adapting more radical approaches because people like you would have us sit there and watch old idiots bicker about laws that will only fill their pockets, while the real citizens are perishing at the hands of those who seek to harm others, and the few who try to stop them such as military and police forces, and so tied up in red tape. That red tape sir, is you. You are the reason OJ got off. You are the reason 3 seals are on trial for being seals. You are the reason America will face what it must.

Justice died long ago, buried by contentment and self pleasure. As long as you have what you deem is enough, and you are safe...it doesnt matter what happens to others.


It matters not. Look at the working class, look at how they stir. Look at the jobless, look into their eyes, listen to their speech. Look at those with terminal illnesses who have NOTHING left to fear, and see their anger against the system and those who support it.

Look at the future. Thanks to your kind, its bound to be a crimson one. Because those people, will not tolerate this forever. Or the people who support it or stand in the way of advancement.

A man with nothing left to lose, is more powerful than a platoon. There are alot of men out there now with nothing left to lose. And a bitter taste for the heafty, wicked, and anything related to our politics.

Use common sense...your worried about a police state, open your eyes your living in one that is just very well concealed.

This government has become so restrictive not because of terrorism or such, but because it can see what is coming. It knows its losing its grip on this nation.

 

[CDB]

hahaha! WE elect those in authority and then they appoint their staff. Point being, we still elect those we put in control! Better luck with you next argument!

Better luck learning about our system actually works if you honestly think you have a frozen rat turd's chance in hell of actuall influencing who gets elected.

 

[CDB]

Yeah, let's wait until something happens to us before we take a stand against criminals.

There are so many levels of moron in the above statement it's hard to comprehend it. First, 'criminal' as defined by who? You can make dying one's hair red a 'criminal' act, does that mean you're all of a sudden justified in rounding up all non red heards who have somehow demonstrated a preference for red hair? Hell, take a stand against those criminals... Which leads to two, you need to learn the difference between a malum in se and a malum prohibitum. Drugs laws are of the latter nature, and malum prohibitum is not consistent with a free society. Which leads to three, yes, you do have to wait until something happens. It's this little legal principle of having to have an overt act in evidence before actually prosecuting someone for something.

And rapists and child molesters? Give them another chance to rape again because they haven't been convicted yet?

The mere fact that you equate drug users with rapist and child molesters shows you left the reality train more than a few stops back.

America lacks discipline

The only thing America lacks is the backbone to take the likes of you, Zero, and 'Sherif Joe', and toss your asses out into some totalitarian **** hole where you would obviously be more at pease.

 

[CDB]

As for the food thing...How much has the cost of food went up yearly now? How fewer jobs are there each year, and how many more children are born this year than last.

You can thank your wonderful government for that.

No matter what, any man with a decent intelligence can see whats coming. This planet has Finite space, and in so Finite resources, and in so as there are more people to less resources take a wild guess at what ensues?

If you took everyone on the planet and had them live at Manhattan level population densities, we'd all fit into two or three large states with the rest of the planet available for use for anything. This Malthusian bull**** you keep spouting is no different than the Malthusian bull**** that has been spouted for generations, and which has always been wrong without exception. It warrants no more address.

America will follow the natural cycle of all nations. If you need to know what that cycle is, go back to school because you missed far too much.

Indeed it will. The tragedy is it's nitwits like you that will speed it along that cycle, ever assured that just a little more control and a little more power given to the government will solve all problems.

It matters not. Look at the working class, look at how they stir. Look at the jobless, look into their eyes, listen to their speech. Look at those with terminal illnesses who have NOTHING left to fear, and see their anger against the system and those who support it.

Those who support it... like you. You are not proposing anything different, you are proposing more of the same policies that have brought us here. You're just too dense to realize it.

Look at the future.

Great, now I'm 'debating' with Nostradamus.

Use common sense...your worried about a police state, open your eyes your living in one that is just very well concealed.

And your answer is to merely unconceal it.

This government has become so restrictive not because of terrorism or such, but because it can see what is coming. It knows its losing its grip on this nation.

It's this government's 'grip' on this nation that has caused our problems.

 

[timmmah]

There are so many levels of moron in the above statement it's hard to comprehend it. First, 'criminal' as defined by who? You can make dying one's hair red a 'criminal' act, does that mean you're all of a sudden justified in rounding up all non red heards who have somehow demonstrated a preference for red hair? Hell, take a stand against those criminals... Which leads to two, you need to learn the difference between a malum in se and a malum prohibitum. Drugs laws are of the latter nature, and malum prohibitum is not consistent with a free society. Which leads to three, yes, you do have to wait until something happens. It's this little legal principle of having to have an overt act in evidence before actually prosecuting someone for something.



The mere fact that you equate drug users with rapist and child molesters shows you left the reality train more than a few stops back.



The only thing America lacks is the backbone to take the likes of you, Zero, and 'Sherif Joe', and toss your asses out into some totalitarian **** hole where you would obviously be more at pease.

mmmmm...insults
Great retort!

 

[Zero V]

CDB you have to be on happy pills to be so full of joy to keep your eyes closed.

And I am actually anti-government.

In a system with less laws, just the basics, and execution as an acceptable punishment for half of them...Police forced could have state level tops. In fact the federal government should only be (how it was planned) a small group that helps the states work together, and to hold military in order to protect us as a whole.

Hell even the local level is enough to effectively root out most of the crime by itself.

I am just saying "Get results" not saying super power the feds. Just saying give the protective forces the right to protect.

Best way I ever heard it put.

"Helping people can only be done if its through many ways. Sometimes healing people, other times executing dangerous people".

 

[kwyckemynd00]

The only thing America lacks is the backbone to take the likes of you, Zero, and 'Sherif Joe', and toss your asses out into some totalitarian **** hole where you would obviously be more at pease.

Oh my God, you've gotta be kiddin' me. "Totalitarian", eh? What the hell is totalitarian about what this amazing man, Sheriff Joe, does? Answer: nothing! But, you can have a shot at answer the question.

Being long-winded doesn't make your positions any more valid. Instead, it simply makes them exponentially more unbearable. So, when you attempt to answer that question, the world would appreciate it if you kept it concise.

If you took everyone on the planet and had them live at Manhattan level population densities, we'd all fit into two or three large states with the rest of the planet available for use for anything. This Malthusian bull**** you keep spouting is no different than the Malthusian bull**** that has been spouted for generations, and which has always been wrong without exception. It warrants no more address.

Your disagreement with the so-called "Malthusian bull****" is completely unsubstantiated, and your arrogance in your disagreement is laughably ignorant. The fact that you could throw everyone into three large Manhattan style states is entirely irrelevant, too. The reality of our situation is this: (a) As was previously mention, we have finite resources, (b) Resources can be stretched/thinned/attained/lost based on technology.

At present, we don't have the technology to stretch our resources to the point that we could take care of everyone on this planet. It's impossible. We could liquidate the worlds wealth in no-time and have nothing to show for it except liquidated wealth! And, with the lost wealth would go our technology and future advancement. Without technological advancement, you've ruined the prospects of the world's impoverished people reaching some decent level of standard of living.

P.S. Sheriff Joe is my hero

 

[kwyckemynd00]

This guy's a power-hungry psychotic. He does everything he can to abuse the prisoners, and many are in for things like simple posession of drugs. He even had random searches set up along the highways to catch more people with drugs so he could jail them until he was informed that it's unconstitutional.

Sheriff Joe doesn't determine what offenses are worthy of jail time, he just enforces the laws. I think what he does IN the jails and WITH the prisoners is amazing. Walking dogs, chain gains, paying for food, Disney channels, etc = genius. As for who is ending up in prison, well, you've gotta take that up with the legislators.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Punsihment before conviction? hell yeah I have problem with that. They are innocent people until proven otherwise. Spa anc volleyball is a false dichotomy. How about clean safe water, fresh food, safety from other inmates, and passably reasonable accomodations?

That's all very reasonable, especially considering the conviction rate is about 40% (of course many of those will go because of lack of evidence, not lack of guilt, but many will also be innocent). However, that's a legislative issue, not Sheriff Joe's problem.

 

[kingjameskjf]

Better luck learning about our system actually works if you honestly think you have a frozen rat turd's chance in hell of actuall influencing who gets elected.

lol, it's called a VOTE! Look it up, it's actually kinda cool cause I have a voice with the system and so do you!

There are so many levels of moron in the above statement it's hard to comprehend it.

...

The only thing America lacks is the backbone to take the likes of you, Zero, and 'Sherif Joe', and toss your asses out into some totalitarian **** hole where you would obviously be more at pease.

Wow, you are full of snappy, well educated retorts with everyone you disagree with! Glad we could have an intelluctually stimulating conversation...:dump:

...
P.S. Sheriff Joe is my hero

Mine too!

Sheriff Joe doesn't determine what offenses are worthy of jail time, he just enforces the laws. I think what he does IN the jails and WITH the prisoners is amazing. Walking dogs, chain gains, paying for food, Disney channels, etc = genius. As for who is ending up in prison, well, you've gotta take that up with the legislators.

Precisely what I've been trying to say!

 

[Mrs. Gimpy!]

#1. Is it not possible to have a constructive, enriching conversation without the “intellectual belittling” of others? I believe you are better than this.

your complete lack of intellectual capability is demonstrated by your uncritical acceptance of the above 'report'.

#2. This topic was primarily about the treatment of people being punished for crimes/offenses. It’s inconceivable that there are so many who are defending and sympathizing these convicted drug dealers, rapists, murderers. True, there are probably some people in his jail that were wrongly convicted and found guilty, BUT that is not Joe’s fault, that was a juror’s job. Perhaps we should revisit the definition of a “jail”: “a place of confinement for persons held in lawful custody; specifically : such a place under the jurisdiction of a local government (as a county) for the confinement of persons awaiting trial or those convicted of minor crimes.” There is no definition that states that jail is a place of free housing, porn and cable. There is no reason why these people should be treated better than many who struggle on a daily basis to make ends meet. What kind of system teaches children that if they chose to, they can suck on the government’s teat simply by being a heathen and get free room and board versus if they have an honest, good life, they will experience nothing that is “free”?

#3. Joe’s treatment of “[not] treating other people as free human beings as opposed to lap dogs of the state who are only supposed to do what they're told by their betters…” (CDB) works while traditional methods fail.
-crime rates have decreased dramatically
-"The crime rate per 100,000 people in Maricopa County decreased 8% from 2007 to 2008 and 18% from 2004 to 2008. During this same period, the violent crime rate in Maricopa County dropped 8% and the property crime rate fell 21%. This decline occurred even though the county’s population actually grew by just under 11 percent during the same period."
-costs are cut
-“average meal costs about 15 cents, and inmates are fed only twice daily, to cut the labor costs of meal delivery. He even stopped serving them salt and pepper to save tax payers $20,000 a year.”- http://www.mcso.org

The only thing America lacks is the backbone to take the likes of you, Zero, and 'Sherif Joe', and toss your asses out into some totalitarian **** hole

I’d like to live in this so called ****hole please. The criminal sympathizers can live elsewhere and we’ll see who is mugged first

** honestly, I would really like to know how prisoners should be treated because, no one truly knows what it a situation is like until they are forced into that position to make these kinds of decisions. so much argument has ensued on what is despicable about the treatment of these prisoners but none have offered an argument as to how an ideal prison should be ran and what should be offered.

 

[CDB]

mmmmm...insults
Great retort!

Yeah, because the rhetorical bull**** pumping out of the other side of this debate has been nothing but high quality...

CDB you have to be on happy pills to be so full of joy to keep your eyes closed.

And I am actually anti-government.

Yeah, just like Lou Dobbs it seems. You want the government to have all the power you don't want it to abuse.

In a system with less laws,

Where have you advocated for less or fewer laws? In the same posts where you've suggest execution for non violent 'criminals' engaging in victimless crimes? Bull****. You may as well claim a gun shot is 'less murder' than a messy death by stabbing simply because there's less clean up.

just the basics, and execution as an acceptable punishment for half of them...

Dispicable and disgusting. No one honestly calling for 'less government' can advocate giving the government the unquestioned ultimate power of life and death over its citizens. It's a contradiction.

Police forced could have state level tops. In fact the federal government should only be (how it was planned) a small group that helps the states work together, and to hold military in order to protect us as a whole.

And once more, here you jump the reality track. There is no way in ****ing hell a government is going to limit its own powers over time. It doesn't happen. It has never happened in the history of the planet. It is completely and totally against the nature of government itself. So yeah, if black were white, up were down, left were right, people were perfect, your plan might work. But since your plan is contradictory to this pesky thing called empirical reality, it's worthless pontificating. Historically the only way to put a government in check has been to kill the enforcers of its power en masse, and that only earns you a temporary reprieve as the process of power accumulation begins again. And no government has ever been restrained by increasing its powers.

"Helping people can only be done if its through many ways. Sometimes healing people, other times executing dangerous people".

Presumptuous ****. Helping people can only be done voluntarily. Government 'help' invariably leaves someone else worse off.

Oh my God, you've gotta be kiddin' me. "Totalitarian", eh? What the hell is totalitarian about what this amazing man, Sheriff Joe, does? Answer: nothing! But, you can have a shot at answer the question.

How about locking up dissenters...

"Sheriff’s deputies and county Protective Service officers arrested two men and two women in the middle of the meeting when they stood and applauded a speaker who criticized Arpaio.

"Joel Nelson, Jason Odhner, Monica Sanschafer and Kristy Theilen all were charged with suspicion of disorderly conduct and trespassing, said sheriff’s office spokesman Lt. Brian Lee.

"Odhner is a member of the anti-Arpaio group Maricopa Citizens for Safety and Accountability, said the group’s director Raquel Terán. Nelson, Sanschafer and Theilen are members of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. The trio frequently has participated with MCSA members during the group’s anti-Arpaio campaign."
East Valley Tribune

How about people under his command stealing court documents...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/42036.html

Or threatening to arrest and jail journalists for looking at public records...

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2008/06/arpaios_thugs_threaten_to_arre.php

Or the tendency of people to die of lethal beatings and such while in his custody...

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/03/scum-also-rises.html

Or forcing women to give birth in ****ing shackles and then threatening the kid who, like it or not, is a ****ing US citizen...

http://www.latina.com/lifestyle/news-politics/video-sheriff-joe-arpaio-forces-woman-give-birth-while-shackled

Not to mention my own experience with this ****aroon who has terrorized by informal count half my ****ing workforce down there because they're hispanic, despite the fact that all of them have legally satisfied I-9s, have been run through the damn eVerify system, etc.

Joe Arpaio is a piece of ****.

Your disagreement with the so-called "Malthusian bull****" is completely unsubstantiated, and your arrogance in your disagreement is laughably ignorant.

Says you. However, The Population Bomb is a well know book, published some time ago, which shows that I am right and you are wrong; if that book had been right, and it was basing its claims on the same bull**** spewed out here, we'd all be starving right now. Further, way back there was a follower of the prophet Montanus, Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus, who said things in the second century were "too extravagant, too wasteful", and that "population growth had run out of control," and that, "[m]ankind was raping the Earth of its resources", and that, "we men have actually become a burden to the Earth ... the Earth can no longer support us...". It was bull**** then, it is bull**** now. That someone as relatively intelligent as I had you pegged could fall for this crap is frigging ridiculous.

The fact that you could throw everyone into three large Manhattan style states is entirely irrelevant, too. The reality of our situation is this: (a) As was previously mention, we have finite resources, (b) Resources can be stretched/thinned/attained/lost based on technology.

Typical misinformed view based on jack **** understanding of economics. If resources are so finite, why have supplies steadily been rising? If resources are so finite, why is the secular trend in prices, shocks here and there aside, almost always downward? The bellyacher in chief Paul Ehrlich made a famous bet with Julian Simon, perhaps you've heard of it? Ehrlich and his ilk, of which you are apparently, lost because of a fundamental misunderstanding of the economic nature of raw resources vs usable economic goods. As economist George Reisman has explained time and again, the fraction of a resource that we use relative to the raw resource is miniscule, and the majority of the input is human productivity. The difference between iron ore sitting in the ground vs usable metal is productive human input. Yes, there is a total amount of iron in the Earth. However the fraction that is a usable economic good vs the fraction that is available is ridiculously small, and the usable fraction is subject to progressive expansion for its uses based on the same amount of material based on productivity improvements and marginal substitution. Or, put simply, the chances that we're going to 'run out' of this or that are near zero. And whatever we might run out of has numerous substitutions available at the margins, so worrying about 'limited' or 'finite' resources is a load of horse ****.

lol, it's called a VOTE!

Are you really this naive? That's an honest question.

Wow, you are full of snappy, well educated retorts with everyone you disagree with! Glad we could have an intelluctually stimulating conversation...:dump:

And so far you have come up with jack **** to support your position other than a sticky, well used picture of Arpaio. Ever heard of gerrymandering? Rational Ignorance? The Public Choice Trap? Special Interests? Defacto Democrat/Republican control over debates, ballot rules, etc? I'd truly like to know what fantasy world you're living in.

#1. Is it not possible to have a constructive, enriching conversation without the “intellectual belittling” of others? I believe you are better than this.

Respect where it's due. I have yet to see anything in this thread besides fanboy love of a petty tyrant piece of **** sherif. And I'm sure all those begging to go down on this ass would think differently if he took it in his mind to put them in his cross hairs.

#2. This topic was primarily about the treatment of people being punished for crimes/offenses. It’s inconceivable that there are so many who are defending and sympathizing these convicted drug dealers, rapists, murderers.

Because our judicial system is 100% perfect, and all those getting this 'treatment' deserve it. Yeah, I want non violent offenders to get brutally beaten, saddled with criminal records and jail time that stacks the odds so much against them that when they do get out they have about as much of a chance of earning a living as a legless guy in an ass kicking company. I want some poor nigger 'rapist' to have his balls ripped off by a guard dog and then to be beaten into mental imcompetency three years before he gets let out of prison because DNA evidence shows he wasn't the offender. I want reporters trying to look at public records arrested and incarcerated. I want deputies to steal court documents. These are all good things, exemplary of how our Republic should operate...

True, there are probably some people in his jail that were wrongly convicted and found guilty, BUT that is not Joe’s fault, that was a juror’s job.

Joe? Joe is ****ing responsible for how he treats all his prisoners, whether a jury put them there rightly or wrongly.

There is no reason why these people should be treated better than many who struggle on a daily basis to make ends meet.

If you think the objections against Arpaio are because he makes inmates pay for TV, you're about as far off the mark as you can possibly be.

What kind of system teaches children that if they chose to, they can suck on the government’s teat simply by being a heathen and get free room and board versus if they have an honest, good life, they will experience nothing that is “free”?

Bull**** and nonsensical argument. You don't have to abuse prisoners to teach children morality and ethics.

#3. Joe’s treatment of “[not] treating other people as free human beings as opposed to lap dogs of the state who are only supposed to do what they're told by their betters…” (CDB) works while traditional methods fail.

The only study I'm aware of shows absolutely no difference in recidivism rates between his prisoners and those of the sherif that came before him. His methods don't 'work', they make jack asses feel good about being 'tough on crime.' Crime of course arbitrarily defined as anything and everything the good white souls of Bumble**** County don't like, or in other words right back to a malem in se vs a malem prohibitum. Both types of 'wrong' are included in the law, but suggesting each be punished with the same severity is like suggesting the death sentence for jaywalking. It's ridiculous on its face.

And I'm dead sure the falling crime rates are all about Joe and have nothing to do with the housing implosion and the decimation of construction jobs open to illegals in the US and AZ in particular. 9%+ unemployment with AZ having one of the most devastated housing markets on the planet, I dare say I'll hold off on giving Joe any credit until another bubble inflates and he manages to keep crime down despite that. Because if he doesn't, then his methods haven't done jack. And from what I can tell from stats on line, on the rise of previous bubble his methods amounted to jack, so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[CDB]

I’d like to live in this so called ****hole please. The criminal sympathizers can live elsewhere and we’ll see who is mugged first

Sure, until the law decides to mug you. It's always all ****s and giggles until the power that you so want the law to have is focussed on you for reasons you think are unreasonable. Then all of sudden people start singing a different tune.

 

[kingjameskjf]

...blah blah blah...

Are you really this naive? That's an honest question.



And so far you have come up with jack **** to support your position other than a sticky, well used picture of Arpaio. Ever heard of gerrymandering? Rational Ignorance? The Public Choice Trap? Special Interests? Defacto Democrat/Republican control over debates, ballot rules, etc? I'd truly like to know what fantasy world you're living in.


...blah blah blah....I like to hear myself talk...

You just confirmed how much of a douche you actually are! What are going to rave about next, some mysterious govt. conspiracy theory!? Are lack of intelligable arguments shows me the type of mindless sci-fi thriller you are. Now if you would kindly STFU until you have something useful to say or add to this thread!

 

[CDB]

You just confirmed how much of a douche you actually are! What are going to rave about next, some mysterious govt. conspiracy theory!? Are lack of intelligable arguments shows me the type of mindless sci-fi thriller you are. Now if you would kindly STFU until you have something useful to say or add to this thread!

And you just confirmed how completely and utterly uninformed you are about the actual inner workings of our government. Re:

Rational Ignorance

Public Choice Theory

Gerrymandering

Presidential Debate Commission

Four completely legitimate, and well known but obviously not to you, contributing reasons why voting usually turns out **** results not in line with the public will. None of which you addressed, likely because you're incapable of doing so.

 

[timmmah]

Not to mention my own experience with this ****aroon who has terrorized by informal count half my ****ing workforce down there because they're hispanic, despite the fact that all of them have legally satisfied I-9s, have been run through the damn eVerify system, etc.

Wait...what kind of business are you in where in a 10% unemployment rate you have to depend on illegal aliens to build a workforce?

Bull**** and nonsensical argument. You don't have to abuse prisoners to teach children morality and ethics.

Well you can't exactly tell the kids jail is an okay, safe place to be either. Do you believe in discipline as consequences whatsoever?

 

[CDB]

Wait...what kind of business are you in where in a 10% unemployment rate you have to depend on illegal aliens to build a workforce?

They aren't illegals as per my post, learn to read. They have VALID I-9s and have been run through every system the government has that we can use to verify their citizenship. You do actually know what an I-9 and E-Verify are, correct? I work for a manufacturer, and we require every possible legal document we can to verify legal citizenship and/or authorization to work within the US and do routine, regular internal audits and reviews to make sure all paper work is kept up to date and current for every single worker we employ in AZ, CA, NM, NY, OR, WA, and every other state we operate in. Along with credit checks, background checks for employment verification, and criminal checks based on their social security trace which usually covers every state they've ever had a recorded address in. Follow that with a pre employment drug and literacy tests to verify math and English skills adequate to deal with the safe operation of the equipment we use.

So, please tell me once more, who is employing "illegals"? I'd wager based on your oblivious response which proves that you either did not or could not read my previous post that most of those people you dismiss as "illegals" have put more effort into learning the English language than you parents bothered to waste on you to that same end, and work harder to boot. Most of those workers in the southern states do happen to be latino, I guess that's enough of a reason in your book to let ****wit Joe Arpaio round them up, dress them up in pink underwear, and watch as his deputies beat a few of them to death.

Well you can't exactly tell the kids jail is an okay, safe place to be either. Do you believe in discipline as consequences whatsoever?

More so than you apparently, because part of discipline and punishment is making sure it fits the 'crime', and you guys seem to think nonviolent offenders of laws falling in the malum prohibitum category deserve punishment just as harsh, unrelenting, and brutal as a rapist or murderer. Which to me suggests you're more interested in the sadistic pleasure of seeing fellow human beings in pain than understanding and applying true discipline and punishment under the greater umbrella of administering justice, which is the parent concept discipline and punishment are supposed to serve in this context. And when discipline and punishment are meted out disproportionate to the supposed offense and this is done systematically and with glee, the people doing so aren't upstanding citizens deserving praise, they are sadistic pricks who deserve some of their own treatment visited back on them. And thanks to the oddly karmic nature of this world, the continued attempts of such people to rachet up their sadism inevitably leads to just that at some point or another. At which point they tend to turn into whining cry babies and all of sudden adopt the rhetoric of fairness, justice, and proportionality.

A perfect example of this is another tough guy lawman, Bernard Kerik. Who knows how many low level non violent offenders this prick sent up the creek under the Rockefeller during his tenure in NY law enforcement. Then an over zealous prosecutor gets Kerik himself in his sights for various petty charges, tries to apply punishment way disproportionate to anything this poor prick actually may have done, and paw paw Bernie has to have his friend Geraldo Rivera advocate publically for releasing him when his bail was revoked because he was starting to 'break down' mentally in jail and couldn't see his precious family. Awww, poor Bernie. Can't take a few weeks of the same punishment he doled out probably millions of times over to people no more deserving of it than he was.

I'm sure you love 'Sherif Joe' now. All people living under a tyrant, no matter how small or big, tend to like it so long as that tyrant agrees with them. It's when their favorite power abuser gets a whif of their ass and starts to come after them that such people always seem to have a change of heart as to what the 'appropriate' limits of power and the 'appropriate' limits of punishment are. So if you like 'Sherif Joe' and his policies now, just wait and see how much you like them when the bad guy de jour shifts from all those horrible brown people to someone much closer to home.

 

[timmmah]

They aren't illegals as per my post, learn to read.

based on your oblivious response which proves that you either did not or could not read my previous post that most of those people you dismiss as "illegals" have put more effort into learning the English language than you parents bothered to waste on you to that same end

Wow! you are an insulting kinda guy!
I figured it out, your from California and are mad that all the illegals are running your state into the ground. You hate Joe because all our criminals are scared of our jails so they go to your state where it's more "weekend retreatish" in jails.
Or, you have Napoleon complex and are Raging Mad at normal sized people, so you joined a bodybuilding forum to let out frustrations against normal sized people online.:angryfire:

 

[kingjameskjf]

Wow! you are an insulting kinda guy!
I figured it out, your from California and are mad that all the illegals are running your state into the ground. You hate Joe because all our criminals are scared of our jails so they go to your state where it's more "weekend retreatish" in jails.
Or, you have Napoleon complex and are Raging Mad at normal sized people, so you joined a bodybuilding forum to let out frustrations against normal sized people online.:angryfire:

LMAO!

 

[Mrs. Gimpy!]

I've learned that in order to be a humane, intellectually superior person, I need to understand that jails such as the one below are effective and fair for rapists, murders, and thieves.

all this bickering over such an OBVIOUS solution

 

[kwyckemynd00]

How about locking up dissenters...

"Sheriff’s deputies and county Protective Service officers arrested two men and two women in the middle of the meeting when they stood and applauded a speaker who criticized Arpaio.

"Joel Nelson, Jason Odhner, Monica Sanschafer and Kristy Theilen all were charged with suspicion of disorderly conduct and trespassing, said sheriff’s office spokesman Lt. Brian Lee.

"Odhner is a member of the anti-Arpaio group Maricopa Citizens for Safety and Accountability, said the group’s director Raquel Terán. Nelson, Sanschafer and Theilen are members of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. The trio frequently has participated with MCSA members during the group’s anti-Arpaio campaign."
East Valley Tribune

Yes, I'm sure they did absolutely nothing wrong. "Don't taze me bro!!!" Every arrested activist is "always" a victim.

Those same four "victims" were arrested earlier that week in another protest. And, the only available video of the "applause" interruption starts well into the actual interruption. Sure, it was only applause, but how long had it been going on, and what were they doing prior to the edit? It may or may not have been justified, so the owness is on the people who posted the video to put the whole thing up so we can make a fair judgement. Until the whole video is up, I'm working undert he assumption that there was something to hide and that their edits were totally purposeful.

Now, the charges against them were trespassing and disorderly conduct. We can't prove or disprove the disorderly conduct one way or another based on the fact that the "activists" who posted the video didn't post the whole video! The second charge may also have been justified if this board of supervisors meeting was not open to the public. Was it?

How about people under his command stealing court documents...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/42036.html

Dude, I don't know what reason a deputy may or may not have to take a hand-written file and stash it. I have no idea. The judge didn't seem to think he overstepped his bounds to any significant degree, either. So, the only thing left to go on from that video is the lawyer's response. Now, maybe the lawyer was justified in flipping out a bit, or maybe the DEFENSE LAWYER simply saw an opportunity to gain some wiggle-room for her poor, victim of the unjust legal system, who was already doing 18 years for "a very seriuos offense" (per the lawyers own words).

Or threatening to arrest and jail journalists for looking at public records...

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...en_to_arre.php

Did you read this article? First, it was written by the accused person! How reliable is that?! Second, he wasn't simply attempting to "access" public records, he went to go get them himself (by taking photographs) instead of doing it the way that Maricopa county requires, paying $0.50 a page--that may be ridiculous, but so are many things goverment. E.g. a $20 cell phone ticket in CA turns into $150 after all of the additional "administrative fees". Sure, he got hassled, but he was playing rough with them, so they played back. I'm not going to justify childish actions, but they're far from criminal. Is Ray Stern in jail? Did he get beat? No, and no. He got harassed by some cops after he harassed them. Police are human, too. And, does the action of all of Maricopa counties officers ALWAYS reflect Joe Arpaio? Of course not. You're grasping for straws here.

Or the tendency of people to die of lethal beatings and such while in his custody...

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com...lso-rises.html

Ha! There are documentaries written by leftists about stuff like that happening in every jail across the nation.

First line from a "Human Rights Watch" article:
"The sadistic abuse and sexual humiliation by American soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison has shocked most Americans—but not those of us familiar with U.S. jails and prisons. In American prisons today, wanton staff brutality and degrading treatment of inmates occur across the country with distressing frequency."
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2004/05/13/prisoner-abuse-how-different-are-us-prisons

Those sorts of allegations are hardly restricted to Maricopa county.

Again, you're grasping for straws so that you may see only what you "want".

Not to mention my own experience with this ****aroon who has terrorized by informal count half my ****ing workforce down there because they're hispanic, despite the fact that all of them have legally satisfied I-9s, have been run through the damn eVerify system, etc.

Joe Arpaio is a piece of ****.

And, here it is. Finally, the truth has surface. It all comes down to two words, "personal vendetta". BTW, when he 'harassed' your workers needlessly, were they wearing their I-9's on their foreheads? If not, you don't have anythign to complain about. As far as I'm concerned, profiling is an essential tool for law enforcement. So long as your workers were left alone after they proved legal status, then, again, you've got nothing to complain about. If you don't want to have your workers harassed, try hiring people who won't trip the "illegal" brain-sensor with the local law enforcement.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Says you. However, The Population Bomb is a well know book, published some time ago, which shows that I am right and you are wrong; if that book had been right, and it was basing its claims on the same bull**** spewed out here, we'd all be starving right now. Further, way back there was a follower of the prophet Montanus, Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullianus, who said things in the second century were "too extravagant, too wasteful", and that "population growth had run out of control," and that, "[m]ankind was raping the Earth of its resources", and that, "we men have actually become a burden to the Earth ... the Earth can no longer support us...". It was bull**** then, it is bull**** now. That someone as relatively intelligent as I had you pegged could fall for this crap is frigging ridiculous.

Dude, you fail to see the big picture. See my next paragraph and that nifty little graph. Since you don't seem to understand the point when written, maybe you'll have better luck looking at something with pretty colors on it.

Typical misinformed view based on jack **** understanding of economics. If resources are so finite, why have supplies steadily been rising? If resources are so finite, why is the secular trend in prices, shocks here and there aside, almost always downward? The bellyacher in chief Paul Ehrlich made a famous bet with Julian Simon, perhaps you've heard of it? Ehrlich and his ilk, of which you are apparently, lost because of a fundamental misunderstanding of the economic nature of raw resources vs usable economic goods. As economist George Reisman has explained time and again, the fraction of a resource that we use relative to the raw resource is miniscule, and the majority of the input is human productivity. The difference between iron ore sitting in the ground vs usable metal is productive human input. Yes, there is a total amount of iron in the Earth. However the fraction that is a usable economic good vs the fraction that is available is ridiculously small, and the usable fraction is subject to progressive expansion for its uses based on the same amount of material based on productivity improvements and marginal substitution. Or, put simply, the chances that we're going to 'run out' of this or that are near zero. And whatever we might run out of has numerous substitutions available at the margins, so worrying about 'limited' or 'finite' resources is a load of horse ****.

Dude, you may want to get that rectocranial fistula of yours looked at because it's pretty obvious you've got shit for brains. I already addressed all of your concerns by explaining the relationship between accessible resources and "techonology'. And, I never said we'd run out of resources. I said they're finite. A resource is not worth anything to anyone if it's not "accessible" and the amount of accessible resources we have is "finite". We can only use what we can access, and what we can access is dependent on the technology we have available to us.

Let me ask you this, you self-aggrandized, narcissistic bafoon: if there are SOOOOOO MANY ACESSIBLE RESOURCES, then why the hell are there so many little African kids with kwashiorkor and no roof over their heads?

 

[nparisi]

Wow! you are an insulting kinda guy!
I figured it out, your from California and are mad that all the illegals are running your state into the ground. You hate Joe because all our criminals are scared of our jails so they go to your state where it's more "weekend retreatish" in jails.
Or, you have Napoleon complex and are Raging Mad at normal sized people, so you joined a bodybuilding forum to let out frustrations against normal sized people online.:angryfire:

LOL a bodybuilding forum wouldn't be the first place I would go to find normal sized people bro, that doesn't make sense.

 

[CDB]

Wow! you are an insulting kinda guy!

Only to those who deserve it.

I figured it out, your from California

Try NY.

and are mad that all the illegals are running your state into the ground.

Don't have much of a problem with them here that I know of.

You hate Joe because all our criminals are scared of our jails so they go to your state where it's more "weekend retreatish" in jails.

I know several COs here in this state who I'm related to, they'd laugh at you for this. Unless of course you want to take some time and stay in one of our jails and see how retreatish it is by your own standards.

Or, you have Napoleon complex and are Raging Mad at normal sized people, so you joined a bodybuilding forum to let out frustrations against normal sized people online.:angryfire:

Keep it coming, jackass. At least I sprinkle content in with my insults. Anyone need look to the left to get the hint. I've been here longer than you, contributed more, and had the decency to donate at least once to the running of these boards, whereas you've given jack ****, both in terms of content to this thread and support. Funny to see the above coming from the guy mooching a free ride.

 

[timmmah]

I've been here longer than you, contributed more, and had the decency to donate at least once to the running of these boards, whereas you've given jack ****, both in terms of content to this thread and support. Funny to see the above coming from the guy mooching a free ride.

How do you "donate and contribute"? By expressing your political view and insulting people who don't agree.
Dude, look at all your posts, it's 90% you insulting the intelligence of people debating opinions with you.
This is a bodybuilding forum, I help steer newbies in the right direction and join in conversations with others with the same interests. I didn't know I was obligated to do more, because I would, I love the people on here(no homo), even you dude.:kiss:

 

[kingjameskjf]

How do you "donate and contribute"? By expressing your political view and insulting people who don't agree.
Dude, look at all your posts, it's 90% you insulting the intelligence of people debating opinions with you.
This is a bodybuilding forum, I help steer newbies in the right direction and join in conversations with others with the same interests. I didn't know I was obligated to do more, because I would, I love the people on here(no homo), even you dude.:kiss:

hahahahahahahahaha! That was awesome!

CDB, how much do you think we actually listen to your insult laden posts? Ever considered engaging in educated and intellectual debates without having to slander or degrade someone with an opposing view? Just because someone's view is different then yours, doesn't make it any less valid, at least based on that alone!

 

[Zero V]

hahahahahahahahaha! That was awesome!

CDB, how much do you think we actually listen to your insult laden posts? Ever considered engaging in educated and intellectual debates without having to slander or degrade someone with an opposing view? Just because someone's view is different then yours, doesn't make it any less valid, at least based on that alone!

I kinda only started reading the beginning and the end, just to catch the mainstray of it, because the creamy center is just insults.

Honestly, he seems to me like one of those hot hed politicians you see who when in a debate start YELLING AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE OVER THE OPPOSITION and never taking a breath so they cant make their points. And he considers that intellect.

 

[kingjameskjf]

I kinda only started reading the beginning and the end, just to catch the mainstray of it, because the creamy center is just insults.

Honestly, he seems to me like one of those hot hed politicians you see who when in a debate start YELLING AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE OVER THE OPPOSITION and never taking a breath so they cant make their points. And he considers that intellect.

Yeah, there's a bunch of non-sense thrown out there that was marred by personal views twisted by misguided preconceptions and a bad experience and then applies it to the entire system. Do I agree with everything Sheriff Joe does? Absolutely not, but I do see the value in what he is trying to do. I agree with making imprisonment an unpleasant experience, hence a punishment. I don't agree with the lavish conditions that are available nationwide. How long you have to endure such conditions is predicated on the severity of the crime. I do believe that if all jails and prisons were less...hospitable, then it would have a positive impact upon the rest of the community.

 

[dsade]

A prince among law-abiding, constutution-bound men

http://www.aclu.org/blog/prisoners-rights-reproductive-freedom/well-be-watching-you-sheriff-arpaio

After six years of protracted litigation, women in Maricopa County Jail — you know, the one run by the infamous Sherriff Joe Arpaio — have finally (hopefully) secured their constitutional right to obtain an abortion. The case began in 2004 when a woman, referred to under the pseudonym Jane Doe, was in jail and sought an abortion. Jail officials denied her request, and told her that she had to go to court and have a judge order the jail to transport her for an abortion. She tried this route, but the court denied her request. That's when the ACLU filed a legal challenge on her behalf, both to ensure that she receive a safe, timely abortion and to strike down Arpaio's unconstitutional policy. We won. Arpaio appealed. And we won again. Arpaio appealed again, to the Arizona Supreme Court, which refused to review the decision. And Arpaio appealed again, this time to the U.S. Supreme Court, which refused to hear the case.

At that point, we thought the constitutional right to obtain an abortion for women in Maricopa County Jail was secure. But apparently the rule of law doesn't mean much to Arpaio, "America's Toughest Sheriff." Shortly after he exhausted all appeals, he blatantly defied the court's ruling and refused to voluntarily transport another woman in his custody, referred to as Mary Roe, for an abortion. We intervened and ensured that Ms. Roe was able to obtain her abortion; we also filed a motion to hold Arpaio in contempt of court.

But Arpaio wasn't done playing games with women's constitutional rights. In the middle of negotiations on our contempt motion, he decided to impose a new obstacle on women seeking abortion care: in order to be transported, he demanded that women pay $300 a day up front in transportation and security costs. Sarah Poe, another inmate, could not afford to prepay these costs, and would have been forced to have a baby if we did not intervene. We helped secure her abortion, and we challenged the prepayment policy. In October last year, we won, again.

Last week we learned that Arpaio is not going to appeal this latest ruling. We hope that this is the end to a long chapter, and we particularly hope that women in Arpaio's jail do not have to go through what Ms. Doe, Ms. Roe, and Ms. Poe went through: delay in obtaining care, which may have threatened their health, not to mention the anguish of thinking they may have been forced to remain pregnant and give birth against their will. As a result of their fight, Arpaio must now transport women in his facility who request an abortion, and he must transport them even if they can't afford to pay the transport costs upfront. We've said "hopefully" this is the end because history has shown that Arpaio doesn't seem to grasp the mandates of the constitution or abide by court orders. If Arpaio tries any new tricks, we stand ready to continue the fight.

 

[nparisi]

sadly that's not surprising

 

[jherman08]

just read some article today about this guy, said in it a young prisoner was cattle prodded then forced into restraints with his mouth gagged by a towel. The family sued and won like 6 mill

 

[timmmah]

Wow! I hadn't heard that before. Paid like six mil, huh? Sounds like something I definitely would have heard on the news, or at school, or at work, or from my friends that are cops, I live in phoenix and heard nothing about that. Do you have a link to the story? With a settlement like six mil there's got to be tons of media coverage.

 

[jherman08]

Wow! I hadn't heard that before. Paid like six mil, huh? Sounds like something I definitely would have heard on the news, or at school, or at work, or from my friends that are cops, I live in phoenix and heard nothing about that. Do you have a link to the story? With a settlement like six mil there's got to be tons of media coverage.

You caught me, i made up the 6 mill thing, it was 8.5 mill.

In January, the county settled a wrongful-death suit filed by the family of Scott Norberg for $8.5 million. He died, reportedly of asphyxiation, as he struggled with prison guards in 1996. Not sure if this here CNN is a reliable source or just made up babble.....http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

:trout:

 

[nparisi]

Not sure if this here CNN is a reliable source or just made up babble.....http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/

:trout:

LOL

 

[timmmah]

Oh yeah, I do remember hearing about that 14 years ago, wow! He's been sherriff for 17 years!. I thought you meant recently, but he's still in office with a high approval rating. so, naner naner.

 

[jherman08]

Oh yeah, I do remember hearing about that 14 years ago, wow! He's been sherriff for 17 years!. I thought you meant recently, but he's still in office with a high approval rating. so, naner naner.

Lol im not saying hes a bad sheriff, i actually think everyone should follow his lead, i was just stating something interesting i read...

 

[nparisi]

Oh yeah, I do remember hearing about that 14 years ago, wow! He's been sherriff for 17 years!. I thought you meant recently, but he's still in office with a high approval rating. so, naner naner.

The Jonas Bros have a high approval rating. So f*cking what...you know there are more stupid people than rational ones out there. Popular does not equal good.

 

[timmmah]

The Jonas Bros have a high approval rating. So f*cking what...you know there are more stupid people than rational ones out there. Popular does not equal good.

The jonas brothers have a high approval rating because it is generally accepted that they are the near the best at what they do.
Whether or not one is good at singing and dancing like a little queer or good at prosecuting criminals while saving the state millions isn't at question here, wait yes it is, JOE IS THE MAN!

 

[nparisi]

The jonas brothers have a high approval rating because it is generally accepted that they are the near the best at what they do.
Whether or not one is good at singing and dancing like a little queer or good at prosecuting criminals while saving the state millions isn't at question here, wait yes it is, JOE IS THE MAN!

True but hasn't he costed the state millions in lawsuits as well?

 

[timmmah]

The settlement for the 8.2 mil lawsuit was covered by insurance, it cost the county a 1 mil deductible.
Since Joe has taken over the humane society, he has saved the county 15 mil a year. that's like 75 mil, so far. not to mention how much he saves on power bills to incarcerate prisoners in the tents without AC, and .40 a meal to feed prisoners. He should be Obama's #1 financial consultant, maybe we would actually be in an expansion rather than recession.

 

[nparisi]

His tactics work because they are on prisoners. Spending more on feeding canines than humans outside of prison just wouldn't fly. I'd hate to see the old bat have even more power.

 

[dsade]

His tactics work because they are on prisoners. Spending more on feeding canines than humans outside of prison just wouldn't fly. I'd hate to see the old bat have even more power.

jail != prison