SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Hi all. Got a PM from The_Old_Guy. I hope, he's okay with that, that I share this with you all. Feel free to discuss about this topic. It's just a personal evaluation and also would like to hear something from your personal experiences :)

The_Old_Guy said:
Hope your still around. I respect your opinion - would you mind relaying what SARMs you have used, after looking at all the safety data, etc...? [...] I know they are *all* experimental, but I figure if you have tried them, you balanced out the safety vs risks. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Hi

SARM: Ostarine, LGD-4033, S-4. Non-SARM: MK-677, GW-501516
My cycle started yesterday. So the list of used SARM will expand with RAD-140 an the (non-SARM) YK-11.

What is safe (in the following order, from safe to unkonwn)? Ostarine, LGD-4033 both still in the active researches. Despite they are in the Phase III, the effects and side effects are more or less predictable. After that, you have MK-677 and GW-501516 which are not researched anymore but still "safe" because of different studies on the humans (of course only the facts and topics, which were researched and we know until now).

The substances with unknown safety are RAD-140, YK-11 and S-4. Despite RAD-140 is a Phase 0 substance, it is the "safest" of these three here. That it has effects on the brain should concern you, how low the information about this substance really is. YK-11 is not that safe, while S-4 is not to mention. YK-11 is not a SARM, it is a Designer Steroid with selective effects. We already know another famous steroidal SARM: Trenbolone. There has to be much more of research done. Nothing is know about any toxicity or even dosage. The dosage, which is used in the doping world, are only subjective experiments, which range from 0.5mg/ed to 20mg/ed.
S-4: Reason is, that it has nice effects, indeed, but the long term effects on the mRNA on the occular receptor are not known. And I wrote some stuff about that.

If I may rate them by - my personal optinion - with the rating system used by Standard and Poors (fiancial rating agency) [we are talking about "safety", that concludes factors like hepatoxicity, neurotoxicity, general toxicity, main effect, pureness, short/mid/long term effects, etc. etc. We are NOT talking about substance related side effects like acne, axis shutdown or bloating or something else like that]:

AAA (Prime): there is no absolute safety on any compound ;) Therefore no example. We may have an example, if we know the impact on every single genome in our DNA, which is not the case, yet.
-----
AA+ (High grade): Testosterone and other compounds, which are well known for decades
AA
AA-
-----
A+
A (Upper medium grade): Ostarine>LGD-4033>MK-677. Research Chemicals, therefore not in the "AA"-Range.
A-
-----
BBB+ (Lower medium grade): GW-501516
BBB
BBB-
-----
BB+ (Speculative): RAD-140
BB
BB-
-----
B+
B
B-
-----
CCC+
CCC (extremely speculative): YK-11>S-4
CCC-
-----
CC+
CC
-----
C
-----
D (in default): Metribolone, DNP, DNOC and other toxic, mutagenic, cancerogenic compounds, which are known for enormous negative issues with the first intake

Regards

san
 
GreenMachineX said:
Only 12mg works for me.
Click to expand...

Some of us need max dose and some don't, that's why we usually reccomend to taper up and find your own personal "sweet spot". We are all so different it's really hard to nail down exact doses that will work for everyone (ok, fuking impossible)
 
yates84 said:
Some of us need max dose and some don't, that's why we usually reccomend to taper up and find your own personal "sweet spot". We are all so different it's really hard to nail down exact doses that will work for everyone (ok, fuking impossible)
Click to expand...

unless your rich piano and take 3 times the recommended -
 
HardB0iled said:
You got no results from 8mg after 3-4 weeks of use? What brand did you use?
Click to expand...
Correct; I used Olympus Labs, platinum Nutraceuticals, and Blackstone Labs all at varying doses.

yates84 said:
Some of us need max dose and some don't, that's why we usually reccomend to taper up and find your own personal "sweet spot". We are all so different it's really hard to nail down exact doses that will work for everyone (ok, fuking impossible)
Click to expand...

Agreed. I wonder if body weight matters too; being that I weigh 250 lb might matter.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Correct; I used Olympus Labs, platinum Nutraceuticals, and Blackstone Labs all at varying doses.



Agreed. I wonder if body weight matters too; being that I weigh 250 lb might matter.
Click to expand...

I'll be starting my second cycle of LGD in a few weeks and wondering if I'll respond to 8 mg as well as I did the first time around. Maybe I'll bump up to 12mg in weeks 4-8 regardless.
 
HardB0iled said:
I'll be starting my second cycle of LGD in a few weeks and wondering if I'll respond to 8 mg as well as I did the first time around. Maybe I'll bump up to 12mg in weeks 4-8 regardless.
Click to expand...

12 mg was great for me and I saw absolutely no increase in any negative side-effects over 8 mg. I would definitely bump up the dose for the 2nd half of the cycle.

Edit: Just to note, I didn't see any negative sides at 8 mg either.
 
Toren said:
12 mg was great for me and I saw absolutely no increase in any negative side-effects over 8 mg. I would definitely bump up the dose for the 2nd half of the cycle.

Edit: Just to note, I didn't see any negative sides at 8 mg either.
Click to expand...

Same here. I've never had any side effects from LGD.
 
smith_69 said:
unless your rich piano and take 3 times the recommended -
Click to expand...

Haha yeah. That guy is a living circus.

I am in my first ever SARM cycle, just through week 2 of yates84's beginner LGD cycle.

Saw some results straight out the barn door at 4mg/day in the first 5 days. Sweatin' like a coked up Chris Farley in my workouts, immediate strength increase with volume, and got immediate stamina. Dropped some bodyfat.

Second week at 4mg/day I didn't get the killer instinct in the gym and was so-so- was hoping for the Chris Farley sweats at least. Bumped it up this week to 6mg/day starting today. Appetite is still unreal though. Literally wiping out my fridge. Diet has been on point for the last 6 weeks. Was gonna ask yates84 his opinion about bumping it up a little in Week 3, but I guess I should be okay to go 4/4/6/8/8/8 the rest the way. He's been helpful enough so far!
 
KoolAidMan said:
Haha yeah. That guy is a living circus.

I am in my first ever SARM cycle, just through week 2 of yates84's beginner LGD cycle.

Saw some results straight out the barn door at 4mg/day in the first 5 days. Sweatin' like a coked up Chris Farley in my workouts, immediate strength increase with volume, and got immediate stamina. Dropped some bodyfat.

Second week at 4mg/day I didn't get the killer instinct in the gym and was so-so- was hoping for the Chris Farley sweats at least. Bumped it up this week to 6mg/day starting today. Appetite is still unreal though. Literally wiping out my fridge. Diet has been on point for the last 6 weeks. Was gonna ask yates84 his opinion about bumping it up a little in Week 3, but I guess I should be okay to go 4/4/6/8/8/8 the rest the way. He's been helpful enough so far!
Click to expand...

i started out small as well and went up to 10 with liquid- that was too much. went back to 7 which was my sweet spot. try it for a few days and monitor your body
 
KoolAidMan said:
Haha yeah. That guy is a living circus.

I am in my first ever SARM cycle, just through week 2 of yates84's beginner LGD cycle.

Saw some results straight out the barn door at 4mg/day in the first 5 days. Sweatin' like a coked up Chris Farley in my workouts, immediate strength increase with volume, and got immediate stamina. Dropped some bodyfat.

Second week at 4mg/day I didn't get the killer instinct in the gym and was so-so- was hoping for the Chris Farley sweats at least. Bumped it up this week to 6mg/day starting today. Appetite is still unreal though. Literally wiping out my fridge. Diet has been on point for the last 6 weeks. Was gonna ask yates84 his opinion about bumping it up a little in Week 3, but I guess I should be okay to go 4/4/6/8/8/8 the rest the way. He's been helpful enough so far!
Click to expand...

Seeing people brag about running ridiculous doses of anabolics doesn't do much for me. The key to continually cycling successfully is to use the lowest dose possible that gives you the desired effects you wish to see. More is definitely not always better.

It sounds to me like you're on the right track so far. Adjust up as you see fit if you're not seeing any negative sides. Your layout looks good to me.
 
Toren said:
Seeing people brag about running ridiculous doses of anabolics doesn't do much for me. The key to continually cycling successfully is to use the lowest dose possible that gives you the desired effects you wish to see. More is definitely not always better.

It sounds to me like you're on the right track so far. Adjust up as you see fit if you're not seeing any negative sides. Your layout looks good to me.
Click to expand...

exactly- well put bro
 
Hey all! First post and in need of a few quick answers.

So first ever cycle of anything and I'm starting it with Ostarine. My stats are 6'1", about 175 lbs and 25 years old. I've been lifting for about 7 years now and decided it's finally time to go with something other than protein, creatine, etc. So, here are my questions:

1. I'm thinking the recomp cycle is best for me, so based on my stats, would you still recommend I stick with what was originally suggested? (Recomp cycle:
Ostarine - 20/20/20/20/25/25/25/25
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
Clomid 50/25/25)

2. I ordered the Clomid but will go with a Natural Test Booster instead of OL Super PCT. I heard clomid is kind of strong, so again, do you recommend the above dosage?

3. I've heard of suppression during week 3 or 4 of ostarine only cycles. I've read some people just dealt with it and waited until PCT to fix any issues that arose, and I've also heard of some using bulbine and other AI's. If I opted to just ride it out and deal with the side effects, would this cause any permanent damage? I'm not sure where I'd even get these products. Thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance. If anyone else has anything to add like what I should expect for my first time feel free to share your own experiences.
 
Where's the best place to get lgd Liquid form that's reputable? I usually buy my regular supplements off eBay but I want to make sure I get Legit product
 
Kd5151 said:
Where's the best place to get lgd Liquid form that's reputable? I usually buy my regular supplements off eBay but I want to make sure I get Legit product
Click to expand...

look around the site- otherwise cant source r/c's
 
mtlslapshot said:
Hey all! First post and in need of a few quick answers.

So first ever cycle of anything and I'm starting it with Ostarine. My stats are 6'1", about 175 lbs and 25 years old. I've been lifting for about 7 years now and decided it's finally time to go with something other than protein, creatine, etc. So, here are my questions:

1. I'm thinking the recomp cycle is best for me, so based on my stats, would you still recommend I stick with what was originally suggested? (Recomp cycle:
Ostarine - 20/20/20/20/25/25/25/25
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
Clomid 50/25/25)

2. I ordered the Clomid but will go with a Natural Test Booster instead of OL Super PCT. I heard clomid is kind of strong, so again, do you recommend the above dosage?

3. I've heard of suppression during week 3 or 4 of ostarine only cycles. I've read some people just dealt with it and waited until PCT to fix any issues that arose, and I've also heard of some using bulbine and other AI's. If I opted to just ride it out and deal with the side effects, would this cause any permanent damage? I'm not sure where I'd even get these products. Thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance. If anyone else has anything to add like what I should expect for my first time feel free to share your own experiences.
Click to expand...

Clomid or nolva is the only thing you absolutely need during pct, everything else is an add on. No such thing as preventing suppression, especially with otc herbal products. You cycle hormones, you get suppressed, you address suppression with a serm pct. There is always a risk of hpta damage when using anything hormonal. That is the chance we take. BTW welcome to am brother ;)
 
yates84 said:
Clomid or nolva is the only thing you absolutely need during pct, everything else is an add on. No such thing as preventing suppression, especially with otc herbal products. You cycle hormones, you get suppressed, you address suppression with a serm pct. There is always a risk of hpta damage when using anything hormonal. That is the chance we take. BTW welcome to am brother ;)
Click to expand...

aww- love ending my night with knowledge provided by Mr Yates-

gracis
 
smith_69 said:
aww- love ending my night with knowledge provided by Mr Yates-

gracis
Click to expand...

I'm laying I'm the bed myself, gotta hit the gym at 4 am. Gonna need a lot of pwo!
 
yates84 said:
I'm laying I'm the bed myself, gotta hit the gym at 4 am. Gonna need a lot of pwo!
Click to expand...

make sure you take that stuff before you workout- just saying cause i know someone who took it after, :rofl:
 
mtlslapshot said:
Hey all! First post and in need of a few quick answers.

So first ever cycle of anything and I'm starting it with Ostarine. My stats are 6'1", about 175 lbs and 25 years old. I've been lifting for about 7 years now and decided it's finally time to go with something other than protein, creatine, etc. So, here are my questions:

1. I'm thinking the recomp cycle is best for me, so based on my stats, would you still recommend I stick with what was originally suggested? (Recomp cycle:
Ostarine - 20/20/20/20/25/25/25/25
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
Clomid 50/25/25)

2. I ordered the Clomid but will go with a Natural Test Booster instead of OL Super PCT. I heard clomid is kind of strong, so again, do you recommend the above dosage?

3. I've heard of suppression during week 3 or 4 of ostarine only cycles. I've read some people just dealt with it and waited until PCT to fix any issues that arose, and I've also heard of some using bulbine and other AI's. If I opted to just ride it out and deal with the side effects, would this cause any permanent damage? I'm not sure where I'd even get these products. Thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance. If anyone else has anything to add like what I should expect for my first time feel free to share your own experiences.
Click to expand...

Recomp? I'd be bulking like hell if I had your stats, man. But maybe we have different goals
 
Thanks, yates. So on a scale of 1-10, how strongly would you suggest obtaining a SERM to address suppression instead of just dealing with it naturally?
 
yates84 said:
Clomid or nolva is the only thing you absolutely need during pct, everything else is an add on. No such thing as preventing suppression, especially with otc herbal products. You cycle hormones, you get suppressed, you address suppression with a serm pct. There is always a risk of hpta damage when using anything hormonal. That is the chance we take. BTW welcome to am brother ;)[/QUOTE


See
Click to expand...
 
BamBam0319 said:
Recomp? I'd be bulking like hell if I had your stats, man. But maybe we have different goals
Click to expand...

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read this... I just didn't want to be mean. Lol.

At 6'1" 175 pounds I find it hard to believe there's much to re-comp. last time I was 175 pounds at 6' 1/2" (to be exact) I was 7.5% BF without nearly enough lean mass on my frame. Why not run something geared more towards bulking lean mass?
 
mase1 said:
Looking for supplement companies
Click to expand...

Of the allowed postings about sources - I'd say check Focused Nutrition on PHW. That's the only one I recall still carrying capped from a supplement company (maybe). Although I do LOL at the fear of Research Suppliers - people have gotten tainted "legitimate" supplements as well. Just do the damn leg work :)
 
mtlslapshot said:
I heard clomid is kind of strong, so again, do you recommend the above dosage?
Click to expand...

Each individual's response will vary (some - there are 9 Billion people on the planet - there aren't 9 Billion different reactions to Clomid :)) - I get no sides from Clomid at 50mg or under. 50/50/25/25 is the standard 4 week dosing, I've also done 40/40/20/20. The Mini-3 week is recommended by smarter people than me for 2866, so it should be G2G as well. Now, if you follow some of those "Do 150mg for three days..." deals, maybe you will have sides...
 
mtlslapshot said:
Hey all! First post and in need of a few quick answers.

So first ever cycle of anything and I'm starting it with Ostarine. My stats are 6'1", about 175 lbs and 25 years old. I've been lifting for about 7 years now and decided it's finally time to go with something other than protein, creatine, etc. So, here are my questions:

1. I'm thinking the recomp cycle is best for me, so based on my stats, would you still recommend I stick with what was originally suggested? (Recomp cycle:
Ostarine - 20/20/20/20/25/25/25/25
PCT:
OL Super PCT as indicated on label
Clomid 50/25/25)

2. I ordered the Clomid but will go with a Natural Test Booster instead of OL Super PCT. I heard clomid is kind of strong, so again, do you recommend the above dosage?

3. I've heard of suppression during week 3 or 4 of ostarine only cycles. I've read some people just dealt with it and waited until PCT to fix any issues that arose, and I've also heard of some using bulbine and other AI's. If I opted to just ride it out and deal with the side effects, would this cause any permanent damage? I'm not sure where I'd even get these products. Thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance. If anyone else has anything to add like what I should expect for my first time feel free to share your own experiences.
Click to expand...

I don't know how you'll respond, but I have to start at 10mg with ostarine for a week and go up 5mg every 5 days otherwise I get horrible headaches from it. If I ramp up slowly, it doesn't happen. Running it at 25mg now.
 
About to wrap up a standalone ostarine cycle. Was my first time taking any sort of PED. Assuming that my bloods come back positive, after the ostarine is depleted from my system, how long is the minimum I should wait before starting something else? I have PCT on hand, but is it absolutely necessary even assuming positive blood results?

Thanks
 
feltorskeltor said:
About to wrap up a standalone ostarine cycle. Was my first time taking any sort of PED. Assuming that my bloods come back positive, after the ostarine is depleted from my system, how long is the minimum I should wait before starting something else? I have PCT on hand, but is it absolutely necessary even assuming positive blood results?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Your bloods will probably show that you need pct, one guy on here said his test was at 125 when it was checked post cycle! Time on + pct = time off is my general rule I follow.
 
Is anybody encountering stomach or GI discomfort from mk-677? I don't believe it's related to when our what I eat, but I have noticed during the past 6 months of use, the urge for a bowel movement feels much different/unpleasant. (TMI? Lulz).
Can anybody else relate?

I also posted this in the other mk-677 thread in case different people read them.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Is anybody encountering stomach or GI discomfort from mk-677? I don't believe it's related to when our what I eat, but I have noticed during the past 6 months of use, the urge for a bowel movement feels much different/unpleasant. (TMI? Lulz).
Can anybody else relate?

I also posted this in the other mk-677 thread in case different people read them.
Click to expand...
Mk's main action takes place in the stomach so this isn't very suprising tbh. Exactly what symptoms are you having? Hard to go or just uncomfortable?
 
yates84 said:
Mk's main action takes place in the stomach so this isn't very suprising tbh. Exactly what symptoms are you having? Hard to go or just uncomfortable?
Click to expand...

Definitely not hard to go! lol
The feeling is very hard to describe. It's really just a discomfort that's almost always there. It's almost like a continuous stomach cramp maybe? I just mentioned the BM part because it's a different feeling than it used to be, before MK. I'm stopping it (again) today.

Edit: I'm also much more gassy then I used to be, but I figured that was attributed to the increase in calories, but even since dropping them, I'm crop dusting everywhere!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Definitely not hard to go! lol
The feeling is very hard to describe. It's really just a discomfort that's almost always there. It's almost like a continuous stomach cramp maybe? I just mentioned the BM part because it's a different feeling than it used to be, before MK. I'm stopping it (again) today.

Edit: I'm also much more gassy then I used to be, but I figured that was attributed to the increase in calories, but even since dropping them, I'm crop dusting everywhere!
Click to expand...

Yep, might be time for a break from mk for a while.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Definitely not hard to go! lol
The feeling is very hard to describe. It's really just a discomfort that's almost always there. It's almost like a continuous stomach cramp maybe? I just mentioned the BM part because it's a different feeling than it used to be, before MK. I'm stopping it (again) today.

Edit: I'm also much more gassy then I used to be, but I figured that was attributed to the increase in calories, but even since dropping them, I'm crop dusting everywhere!
Click to expand...

man that sucks and sorry to hear that- i was reading the below threads and thought maybe you pulled a muscle, but if this has been going on for sometime, yea thats not good.

curious, did you notice more discomfort or issues if you had any citric acid?
 
smith_69 said:
man that sucks and sorry to hear that- i was reading the below threads and thought maybe you pulled a muscle, but if this has been going on for sometime, yea thats not good.

curious, did you notice more discomfort or issues if you had any citric acid?
Click to expand...

I thought maybe I pulled a muscle, or even worse, from binge googling, came up with testicular torsion, appendicitis, or hernia, but the pain isn't bad enough for any of that. But something is worse from Thursday. If it's not better in a couple more days after ceasing the mk, then I'll get it checked out.

Not sure about the citric acid; why do you ask?
 
GreenMachineX said:
I thought maybe I pulled a muscle, or even worse, from binge googling, came up with testicular torsion, appendicitis, or hernia, but the pain isn't bad enough for any of that. But something is worse from Thursday. If it's not better in a couple more days after ceasing the mk, then I'll get it checked out.

Not sure about the citric acid; why do you ask?
Click to expand...

Google symptoms = certain death. That's just a good way to add panic to your situation. I made that mistake one time, never again.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I thought maybe I pulled a muscle, or even worse, from binge googling, came up with testicular torsion, appendicitis, or hernia, but the pain isn't bad enough for any of that. But something is worse from Thursday. If it's not better in a couple more days after ceasing the mk, then I'll get it checked out.

Not sure about the citric acid; why do you ask?
Click to expand...

I hope it gets better bro and because were men here, lets rule out testicular torsion! we dont want that, no no no.
going to rule out
femoral hernia- that usually occurs in women
Obturator hernias- usually in woman and during labor
epigastric hernias- usually occurs in infants
Traumatic diaphragmatic hernias- usually after trauma, knife wound or gun shot- you werent shot or stabbed because you hogged the wgts? jk

if it is hernia, you may have Inguinal hernia which is the most common and since your a guy, most woman dont get this -lol

Just to be safe, dont wait to long because (if you were searching you already know) it will only get worse. CT scan

the citric acid, was hoping maybe you had acid issue- but as we can see, that isnt the case. Dont stress out to much about it, reduce your wgt training
and let us know how your doing
 
yates84 said:
Google symptoms = certain death. That's just a good way to add panic to your situation. I made that mistake one time, never again.
Click to expand...

= MY WIFE lol but she has a severe case of rheumatoid arthritis, several other things. after days and nights of googling i said, hon maybe you have skatuchawandamin disease. that was how i got her off google- sh1t was worse than crack
 
yates84 said:
Google symptoms = certain death. That's just a good way to add panic to your situation. I made that mistake one time, never again.
Click to expand...

I know all about it, but after a few days with pain in that area radiating to your nuts, I mean, that's a precious area. Can't blame me for checking a little right?
 
GreenMachineX said:
I know all about it, but after a few days with pain in that area radiating to your nuts, I mean, that's a precious area. Can't blame me for checking a little right?
Click to expand...

Medieval inguinoscrotal hernia repair - lmao
Invalid Link Removed
 
GreenMachine, with regards to your stomach cramps, I have experienced the same thing. Not really a cramp as such just a mild constant pain with a little cramping. I've been on mk-677 for 2 months now staring at 10mg for a month then 20mg second. It's been ongoing for 3 weeks now but has now gone if this helps.
 
SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

...
 
GreenMachineX said:
I know all about it, but after a few days with pain in that area radiating to your nuts, I mean, that's a precious area. Can't blame me for checking a little right?
Click to expand...

So it must've been the mk-677 because it's been 2 days and the gut distention/pain is just about gone, as well as all the beneficial effects from mk. My bad knee hurts again, the all day pump is gone, and the enhanced vascularity is gone. I'm still running ostarine, and bumping my dose from 25mg to 30mg. Ordered 2 bottles of Super 1-Elite, and will probably bridge into that.

I'm not sure what to do about the knee pain (leftover from ACL Reconstruction), but I'll have to figure something out. I don't think I can deadlift with it feeling like this.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top