bighulksmash
Legend
Can some one please explain to me what the most test you can fit into a cc is?? Iam having a hard time convincing my brother that anything above 400 is not gonna work.
SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide
- Thread starter The Press
- Start date
hairygrandpa
Legend
A word to MK-677 and GH.
I found THIS when researching the effects of Niacin on GH and testosterone:
....the excess growth hormone secretion may reduce muscle catabolism and increase muscle anabolism, at the same time, leading to an increase in muscle gain. However, there is evidence that growth hormone-induced muscle gain occurs only when testosterone levels are elevated. This explains why growth hormone levels are usually higher in young women than young men, and yet young women do not put on much muscle in response to exercise.
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That would make MK-677 less useful in a cycle with test suppression like LGD/MK-677 or high dosed Ostarine/MK-677. It maybe not even be worth to take in PCT.
I found THIS when researching the effects of Niacin on GH and testosterone:
....the excess growth hormone secretion may reduce muscle catabolism and increase muscle anabolism, at the same time, leading to an increase in muscle gain. However, there is evidence that growth hormone-induced muscle gain occurs only when testosterone levels are elevated. This explains why growth hormone levels are usually higher in young women than young men, and yet young women do not put on much muscle in response to exercise.
Invalid Link Removed
That would make MK-677 less useful in a cycle with test suppression like LGD/MK-677 or high dosed Ostarine/MK-677. It maybe not even be worth to take in PCT.
hairygrandpa
Legend
No "test booster" significantly boosts test, IMHO.
But when using MK-677, one should have elevated test levels, I bet a good test base like Trest would do fine.
Interesting is: NIACIN at high dosage (1g +) boosts GH after 5 hours to 300% !
Apparently:
MK-677 + Niacin + Test (Trest?) = Win
sanmarino
Member
It can work, why not. It depends on the maximum solubility. But it's difficult to manage that the vial/substance won't crystallize that fast with every small temperature difference
. The highest amount I know are 500mg/ml @10ml Testosteron Enanthate from a German lab.These are high quality products and not bunk.
The higher the produced solution the better the steady temperature surroundings should be. Where the absolute limit is, I actually can't say.
hairygrandpa: thanks for the interesting article which gives a lot of discussion material. I didn't knew, that a 30 seconds sprint will increase the GH-production for nearly 2h after a single (!) 30 sec sprint
As the blog mentions, GH in woman is higher in men because of the estrogen. This is also the main reason - beside a lot of other important (inter-)actions - why estrogen has also an "anabolic" effect. Concerning the GH, higher estrogen means higher GH levels. But as everyone knows, every thing on this world has its two sides.
Therefore, we shouldn't suppress the female sexual hormone too strong as needed during cycles. Estrogen is a powerful hormone so don't blame it.
The main problem in this story is imho that woman have higher GH values but very low androgenic values. Of course, you need both to build up muscles but in first line you will need the male sexual hormone and not your growth hormone.
Regarding GH + Testosteron vs. GH + SARM I personally don't think that here is a big difference. With MK-677 you are forcing your body to produce endogenously GH. You will notice every GH increase - over a senseful period - even when you have a test value of zero, that's for sure. In this state you won't build up muscle mass but you will notice the other perks of an increased GH.
Combined with the anabolic milieu a male has in it's body you will have the ultimative muscle building combination.
Growth hormone and an anabolic state in the body cause a synergetic effect. In my opinion, the blog does not precisely write about the "anabolic environment" but uses the general expression "testosterone", which means in fact the well known anabolic enironment.
SARM like Ostarine or LGD mimic Testosterone and act stronger than the natural test value (an Ostarine cycle can be compared with a 200mg Testosterone per week cycle, which is way more than a natural bodybuilder releases).
What I want to say: don't focus on the measured testosterone level on your bloodwork, it's the (temporary) anabolic state in your body which is important for building muscle mass. To take MK-677 during PCT is in my opinion a waste of opportunities. With MK-677 you are able to generate new muscle cells whereas you only "widen" it with pure anabolic substances.
Remember, we are only focussing the muscle building aspect and not the many other very interesting actions of GH. If woman would have the same androgen levels as the man, they would be the "superior humans" regarding the natural muscle building
rotherhammad
New member
When would you recommend taking MK then? After cycle and pct or all the time? Any problems with bloating by other members??
sanmarino
Member
I personally would recommend to take MK-677 during a high anabolic state: ergo during cycles. Doesn't matter if that are AAS or SARM cycles, both are more anabolic/androgenic than the natural testosterone level (otherwise, we wouldn't take them 
).
In this millieu, the synergetic effects of growth hormone and anabolic compounds can be used at the best way as possible.
Regarding the length: MK-677 was tested for a time period of two years. It was observed that the effects of GH increased very fast and strong in short period but then slowy decreased on the mid and long term period. The final effect was, that GH and IGF-1 after two years had still an increase of 60% and 72%, respectively. In short term, we are talking about increase of 200-400% (up to 800% in old men with GH deficite, sounds high but comparing with the levels of a healthy man it isn't that high, talking in real numbers).
The main reason of this development is the natural action of our body. It searches a new balance for the fact, that the GH is now increaed. With increased somatropin levels the body will also increase the somatostatin levels (natural balance). You can prolong this effect with an intake of Huperzine-A, for example.
But you have to remember, that the production of new cells takes its time and is not a business of one or two weeks. I personally used MK-677 twice at 50 days with good effects. The next step I'm aiming for is a 100 day intake, which should have a better effect that a very short intake of a bit more than a month. I was ending the intake when it worked at its best.
I personally had a bloating problem with too high sodium (but I also decreased the carbohydrate intake a bit) first, but knowing this fact, I didn't have problems any more.
).In this millieu, the synergetic effects of growth hormone and anabolic compounds can be used at the best way as possible.
Regarding the length: MK-677 was tested for a time period of two years. It was observed that the effects of GH increased very fast and strong in short period but then slowy decreased on the mid and long term period. The final effect was, that GH and IGF-1 after two years had still an increase of 60% and 72%, respectively. In short term, we are talking about increase of 200-400% (up to 800% in old men with GH deficite, sounds high but comparing with the levels of a healthy man it isn't that high, talking in real numbers).
The main reason of this development is the natural action of our body. It searches a new balance for the fact, that the GH is now increaed. With increased somatropin levels the body will also increase the somatostatin levels (natural balance). You can prolong this effect with an intake of Huperzine-A, for example.
But you have to remember, that the production of new cells takes its time and is not a business of one or two weeks. I personally used MK-677 twice at 50 days with good effects. The next step I'm aiming for is a 100 day intake, which should have a better effect that a very short intake of a bit more than a month. I was ending the intake when it worked at its best.
I personally had a bloating problem with too high sodium (but I also decreased the carbohydrate intake a bit) first, but knowing this fact, I didn't have problems any more.
zman86
Member
SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide
I just finish my cycle and started PCT yesterday. So you think I would be wasting my MK677 while using it in PCT and during natty recovery? And what about during a cut, would elevated GH level help preserve muscle when there is a caloric deficit.
I thought MK677 suppose to help with post-cycle muscle preservation and maintenance?
I personally would recommend to take MK-677 during a high anabolic state: ergo during cycles. Doesn't matter if that are AAS or SARM cycles, both are more anabolic/androgenic than the natural testosterone level (otherwise, we wouldn't take them
In this millieu, the synergetic effects of growth hormone and anabolic compounds can be used at the best way as possible.
Regarding the length: MK-677 was tested for a time period of two years. It was observed that the effects of GH increased very fast and strong in short period but then slowy decreased on the mid and long term period. The final effect was, that GH and IGF-1 after two years had still an increase of 60% and 72%, respectively. In short term, we are talking about increase of 200-400% (up to 800% in old men with GH deficite, sounds high but comparing with the levels of a healthy man it isn't that high, talking in real numbers).
The main reason of this development is the natural action of our body. It searches a new balance for the fact, that the GH is now increaed. With increased somatropin levels the body will also increase the somatostatin levels (natural balance). You can prolong this effect with an intake of Huperzine-A, for example.
But you have to remember, that the production of new cells takes its time and is not a business of one or two weeks. I personally used MK-677 twice at 50 days with good effects. The next step I'm aiming for is a 100 day intake, which should have a better effect that a very short intake of a bit more than a month. I was ending the intake when it worked at its best.
I personally had a bloating problem with too high sodium (but I also decreased the carbohydrate intake a bit) first, but knowing this fact, I didn't have problems any more.
I just finish my cycle and started PCT yesterday. So you think I would be wasting my MK677 while using it in PCT and during natty recovery? And what about during a cut, would elevated GH level help preserve muscle when there is a caloric deficit.
I thought MK677 suppose to help with post-cycle muscle preservation and maintenance?
sanmarino
Member
The expression "waste" is relative.
This substance ist not cheap and still a research chemical (my last cycle ended in June, since then I have a break with research chemicals).
You don't have to focus only on muscle building. During PCT, your sexual hormones are decreased but after approx. 3-4 weeks they should be normal again (depending on cycle length and strenght). Taken MK-677 during the PCT will help you, of course, but the benefit (I'm always talking about the benefit) is not that high like during the cycling period (logically).
Don't get me wrong: the increase of GH will give you an added value of 1, the intake of anabolics also 1, together they will have an added value of 3. You can take MK-677 over the tested period of two years if you want, but you could save that money during the "1" periods and heading for the "3" when taken with an anabolic again.
It's more a financial question than a health question, despite MK-677 is a research chemical. If you have the money, go for it (>50mg/ed ).
Some people are using MK-677 like you, some (like me) only for the "optimal periods". And don't blame me, I wrote "I personally..." in the text above. It's only my opinion
Yes, growth hormones have itselves an anabolic/anti-catabolic effect. But don't expect that this effect will be strong enough for a harsh deficite (like -800kcal/day of normal kcal intake).
This substance ist not cheap and still a research chemical (my last cycle ended in June, since then I have a break with research chemicals).
You don't have to focus only on muscle building. During PCT, your sexual hormones are decreased but after approx. 3-4 weeks they should be normal again (depending on cycle length and strenght). Taken MK-677 during the PCT will help you, of course, but the benefit (I'm always talking about the benefit) is not that high like during the cycling period (logically).
Don't get me wrong: the increase of GH will give you an added value of 1, the intake of anabolics also 1, together they will have an added value of 3. You can take MK-677 over the tested period of two years if you want, but you could save that money during the "1" periods and heading for the "3" when taken with an anabolic again.
It's more a financial question than a health question, despite MK-677 is a research chemical. If you have the money, go for it (>50mg/ed
).Some people are using MK-677 like you, some (like me) only for the "optimal periods". And don't blame me, I wrote "I personally..." in the text above. It's only my opinion
Yes, growth hormones have itselves an anabolic/anti-catabolic effect. But don't expect that this effect will be strong enough for a harsh deficite (like -800kcal/day of normal kcal intake).
strickamania
New member
So I just wanted to give an update on my OL cardarine and Osta after 10 days.
Still no big endurance boost, I noticed more with ECA stack but maybe thats notmal. Fat loss is unknown yet but I have been getting a few pimples. I've been relatively acne free for 5 years so has anyone else experienced acne sides?
Still no big endurance boost, I noticed more with ECA stack but maybe thats notmal. Fat loss is unknown yet but I have been getting a few pimples. I've been relatively acne free for 5 years so has anyone else experienced acne sides?
hairygrandpa
Legend
My experience with MK-677 in a nutshell:
I did almost 6 month and upped dosage to 80mg x day.
cons:
-insomnia, interrupted sleep pattern, weird dreams, bloat after 4 month, numb hands (subsided after month 3)
Pros:
-good for recomp when used with LGD or high dosed Osta. Did NOT loose weight at a cal deficit of 600-800 kcal.
-injury's seem to heal faster
With my knowledge of today, I would do a bulk -or recomp using MK-677 with test -or Trest to maximize efficacy
I did almost 6 month and upped dosage to 80mg x day.
cons:
-insomnia, interrupted sleep pattern, weird dreams, bloat after 4 month, numb hands (subsided after month 3)
Pros:
-good for recomp when used with LGD or high dosed Osta. Did NOT loose weight at a cal deficit of 600-800 kcal.
-injury's seem to heal faster
With my knowledge of today, I would do a bulk -or recomp using MK-677 with test -or Trest to maximize efficacy
yates84
Well-known member
Acne/oily skin is a very common side effect with anabolics
yates84
Well-known member
Acne/oily skin is a very common side effect with anabolics
MattB88
Member
Yep always the worst side for me.
hairygrandpa
Legend
Wrong thread....
Besides, dosage of clomid seems too low, IMHO, I would do at least: 150/100/50/50.
yates84
Well-known member
50/50/25/25 works perfect for clomid, that is my dosing protocol after a 17 week cycle and recovery has been great.
Dma378
Legend
Tabs
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
I got same product. I dosed 52.5-35-17.5-17.5 following an LGD and dermatrest cycle...seemed sufficient to me. Bloods will confirm.
BamBam0319
Well-known member
I have the same product, blasted 105mg for 3 days then going to do 70mg per day for the rest of these 2 weeks, then 3 weeks of 35mg per day for 3 weeks.
However I had a much longer harsher cycle.
You could do 70/70/35/35 maybe. I'm no expert though, by all means take the advice of the more experienced. Just putting my $0.02 in
However I had a much longer harsher cycle.
You could do 70/70/35/35 maybe. I'm no expert though, by all means take the advice of the more experienced. Just putting my $0.02 in
yates84
Well-known member
If that dosing protocol doesn't give you any side effects then I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. We can only reccomend guidelines to follow and it's up to the end user to see what works best for them. I just know 50mg is a big enough dose to encourage hpta recovery and doses higher than that are usually blamed for emotional side effects. 100mg of clomid makes me feel like a little girl, that's why I stay away from higher clomid doses.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Any sides?
BamBam0319
Well-known member
So far so good, at least for me. Today was my first day at 70mg and no little girl b1tch fits yet to report.
I just figured 70mg and 35mg were not a much higher dosage than 50 and 25 and since the product is dosed at 70mg/mL, it would be too difficult for my lazy self to calculate 50mg and 25mg and all that jazz.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Hah! fair enough.
liftingamber12
Well-known member
I'm sorry I giggled at this....but I've witnessed it!!
Dma378
Legend
75 had me borderline bitchy. Just this feeling inside. Kept asking wife, "are you mad at me? Is everything ok?" Started having weird thoughts. Wasn't much better at 50.
25 I felt much better emotionally.
100 would probably have me asking the dogs if they were mad at me.
Such a pansy.
25 I felt much better emotionally.
100 would probably have me asking the dogs if they were mad at me.
Such a pansy.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
You couldve had some real fun with him, I hope you took full advantage of his psychologically vulnerable state.
liftingamber12
Well-known member
Ummmm no. He was similar to pms mode. Happy, sappy, wheepy but easily pissed off.
yates84
Well-known member
You suck sometimes...even though you're right
BamBam0319
Well-known member
The only thing I could possibly say has increased is irritability. But it's a stressful time in all my classes? I've been working more, and haven't been getting as much sleep. Can't blame it on the clomid.
Dma378
Legend
I like having your wife around here to call you on all your sh1t!!! It's funny.
yates84
Well-known member
hairygrandpa
Legend
For me old chap, higher dosage of clomid is necessary to get those old nuts producing again.
At 200mg x day, I felt a bit feminized, for instance, my daughter caught a ladybug and kept it in a jar, I truly felt bad for the insect, poor thing, so small and prisoner in a jar....
LOL
At 200mg x day, I felt a bit feminized, for instance, my daughter caught a ladybug and kept it in a jar, I truly felt bad for the insect, poor thing, so small and prisoner in a jar....
LOL
kboxer7
Well-known member
liftingamber12
Well-known member
I just can't help myself sometimes!!
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
There is actually a very recent study on ostarine exerting anabolic effects independent of the androgen receptor via satellite cells.
yates84
Well-known member
This is very user dependant. Start at 7mg and work your way up from there. 21mg was way too much for me where 14mg is perfect but but that won't be the case for everyone
Chrisko
Banned
Sanmarino was in a separate thread and posted several opinions and suggestions which were pretty interesting. He did mention the satellite cells and I believe it may be from the same study.
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GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I've actually just added ostarine to my lgd/MK-677 cycle. 15mg ostarine, 12mg LGD, 10mg MK-677. Heading to gainzville...
Chrisko
Banned
How long have you been on? Are you going to run the osta pass your lgd/mk or end it at the same time? How is it treating you?
dougeefreshh
Member
If you could set up a rad cycle what would it look like
Chrisko
Banned
Did you read the first page? Recommended layouts on each compound are there for the most part.
cheeky1
Active member
That would be an excerpt worth reading, if anyone can find it & post the finer points from it.
I wonder if that's why I seemed to get greater benefit from osta than the reportedly 11+ x stronger LGD cycle i'm now on? Curious.
cheeky1
Active member
That's a fair question I think. There's been much water under the bridge since the inception of this thread. A better question now would be "is that still the recommended cycle for running Rad? And what other products am I best to use during & post cycle?"