SARMs: Let's end this

[Toff]

The fact some watered down PH have been sold as SARMS shuitting people down makes it very variable
some wil lSay "I got shut down" when its physically impossible, and probably using an epi clone or something
Others "Great gains!" again a ph...
others "saw little" ran low dose or weearnt cutting


That and GTX for example used 3mg ostarine in safety studies,.... everyone in here is abusing 5-10 times that so the unknown sides are tremendous.#

Safer than PH's? maybe.. .ask me in 30 years when Im dead

 

[Sambo123]

I don't understand tho, wouldn't the long term sides be similar to fkn steroids and phs, no one knows the long term sides. I heard it more with sarms about how we could die in the near future from it, but that would be the same thing with phs and steroids etc...

 

[Toff]

mk677.. couldnt handle the tiredness

and now new evidence suggests it is a bit intense every day, better to take a break and take every 48 hours

 

[supadupastar]

Ive been burnt before so unless the company is g2g id say sarms are ok. Wouldnt do a sarms only cycle, but as a bridge id give it a go if funds allow.

 

[Toff]

not really because they essentially turn into/convert into hormones and chemicals we know a lot about.

Sarms ont he other hand appear to be 'exempt' in that they work in their own ,selective way.. .and essentially arent even on prescription yet so there is zero comeback if the side effect is actually.. death/cancer.

There's NO way to tell if the study gets dropped in future becuase "oh, sorry, in our tests we found mk677 made the heart grow 35 fold" - wasnt made for human consumption so no blame to anyone.. especially as the samrs websites then dissappear

When asked "so where did you buy it...." you would be embarrassed to say "some dodgy website with no clinical trials att this disage" without answering your own reason for your long term side.

 

[RANS0M]

New roids & EA. predator nutrition still has Olympus sarms.

 

[jakz]

All I know is 4 weeks of Rad140 and PCT costs the same as a 10 week cycle of test e 300mg ew with pct. I'd take the test cycle.

 

[Sambo123]

Yeah but you wouldn't even know if the cancer/death is from sarms. It could be from genetics, the environment, food etc etc. You'd never be able to pinpoint it.

 

[Sparkss]

That and GTX for example used 3mg ostarine in safety studies,.... everyone in here is abusing 5-10 times that so the unknown sides are tremendous.#

Exactly. Many of the studies were at much lower dosages that we typically run them at. But even those lose doses, that were reported as safe by the studies, did have benefits, just not the "quick fix" steroid like growth people are looking for.

 

[Cycloman]

not really because they essentially turn into/convert into hormones and chemicals we know a lot about.

Sarms ont he other hand appear to be 'exempt' in that they work in their own ,selective way.. .and essentially arent even on prescription yet so there is zero comeback if the side effect is actually.. death/cancer.

There's NO way to tell if the study gets dropped in future becuase "oh, sorry, in our tests we found mk677 made the heart grow 35 fold" - wasnt made for human consumption so no blame to anyone.. especially as the samrs websites then dissappear

When asked "so where did you buy it...." you would be embarrassed to say "some dodgy website with no clinical trials att this disage" without answering your own reason for your long term side.

Dang bro, here I am enjoying the gains from my rad run – now you have me thinking twice about the whole thing In all serious you bring up some very good points. The reality is that Sarms may or may not be safer than anabolics. I can tell you that at my age – I would never run an AAS cycle again, so I will stick with Sarms or higher doses of testosterone

 

[Nac]

So some of you guys mean to say...you have never once considered that using a SARM comes with certain risk?

Youre either naive, or full of sh1t.

 

[Toff]

So some of you guys mean to say...you have never once considered that using a SARM comes with certain risk?

Youre either naive, or full of sh1t.

exactly. Too many "its harmless" comments being banded around just becuase there are zero studies.

 

[RANS0M]

Just as much of a risk as AAS/Prohormones.

Stay woke homies.

 

[YamahaC76]

I used good Osatarine. I was trying to figure out why my Free Test was through the roof, (98.8 with a serum of 300) I think I've always had low test but I'm getting blood done again soon since it's been 3 months since I Stopped. I loved ostarine, however it was causing E side effects, but my muscle recovery and progress in the gym met/exceeded expectations...this was also at 25mg a day mind you. So is it safe...I don't know. I feel like all the pre workout, stress from early twenties etc has definitely caused heart palpitations. I need to be careful and this concerns me honestly.

I was coming off 6 months of physical therapy and couldn't work out without injuring something even doing basic exercise. One short cycle of mk-2866 and I finally smashed that ceiling, and am now happily lifting again.

 

[Cycloman]

Just as much of a risk as AAS/Prohormones.

Stay woke homies.

I think it depends a lot on the compounds, dosage, and duration. SARMS, if legit – in theory - do not cause some of the toxic effects as AAS or pro hormones. I can vouch for that based on blood tests. However, as noted – they are relatively unknown – with minimal studies – and some of which have only been used in clinical, level one trials – which means they've only been used on rats and monkeys. One could make the case either way – they are more or less risky – depends on personal preference and goals.

 

[Cycloman]

I used good Osatarine. I was trying to figure out why my Free Test was through the roof, (98.8 with a serum of 300) I think I've always had low test but I'm getting blood done again soon since it's been 3 months since I Stopped. I loved ostarine, however it was causing E side effects, but my muscle recovery and progress in the gym met/exceeded expectations...this was also at 25mg a day mind you. So is it safe...I don't know. I feel like all the pre workout, stress from early twenties etc has definitely caused heart palpitations. I need to be careful and this concerns me honestly.

I was coming off 6 months of physical therapy and couldn't work out without injuring something even doing basic exercise. One short cycle of mk-2866 and I finally smashed that ceiling, and am now happily lifting again.

Ostarine and other SARMS – are good for this purpose – getting back in the game or recovering from injuries. My joints never felt better than when I was running Osta and Rad. Your free test got jacked up because androgens in general, and SARMS in particular, bind to your androgen receptor's more readily than your body's testosterone can – when this happens you have more free testosterone circulating. If you are on TRT – this would also explain it. Just keep in mind – that this could cause some problems with hematocrit, hemoglobin, PSA etc - so better to keep the SARMS blast at a lower dose IMO.

 

[YamahaC76]

Ostarine and other SARMS – are good for this purpose – getting back in the game or recovering from injuries. My joints never felt better than when I was running Osta and Rad. Your free test got jacked up because androgens in general, and SARMS in particular, bind to your androgen receptor's more readily than your body's testosterone can – when this happens you have more free testosterone circulating. If you are on TRT – this would also explain it. Just keep in mind – that this could cause some problems with hematocrit, hemoglobin, PSA etc - so better to keep the SARMS blast at a lower dose IMO.

Thanks mate. I actually have lots of this stuff around (3 months worth) because I thought I was going to run through a cycle side free. But the sides crept up and I Stopped. I figured it filled my androgen receptor better than testosterone, you're the first person to say this as well! However, is Ostarine stronger than the body natural Test levels for building muscle? I'm more interested in it's healing benefits over everything. Joint health especially.

Basically I want to know what the consensus on this forum is to run Ostarine safely. I read on "how to use" sarms page I can use 15mg ED for a 6 week cycle and I'd only need the Olympus PCT and that sounds great to me! I can get clomid but read online it can cause floaters in my eyes. However some members here have also said that's with running very high doses of clomid (300mg) for quite awhile. So any use excluding an Rx SERM I'm for atm! Exemestane however I love. I technically have everything to run the 6 week 15mg ED protocol .

 

[Cycloman]

First of all, if you run any Sarm at all you need RX grade PCT (25 mg Clomid EOD or 12.5 mg ED will do nicely and you don't need to be worried at all at eye floaters at that dose.). Trust me, don't be tempted to try there's any other way – they are suppressive and you need pharma-grade products to recover Ostarine at 15 mg /day would give some nice healing – and it would target your receptors more than your body's own Testosterone. It's not that potent – so you won't see a ton of gains – but you could lose some fat – and usually pack on 3 to 5 pounds of muscle with the right diet and training. The other advantage of this products is that they are not liver toxic – however – they will drastically drop your HDL and total cholesterol. Make sure you take some good fish oil products – and I always like to throw in some COQ10 as well.

 

[YamahaC76]

First of all, if you run any Sarm at all you need RX grade PCT (25 mg Clomid EOD or 12.5 mg ED will do nicely and you don't need to be worried at all at eye floaters at that dose.). Trust me, don't be tempted to try there's any other way – they are suppressive and you need pharma-grade products to recover Ostarine at 15 mg /day would give some nice healing – and it would target your receptors more than your body's own Testosterone. It's not that potent – so you won't see a ton of gains – but you could lose some fat – and usually pack on 3 to 5 pounds of muscle with the right diet and training. The other advantage of this products is that they are not liver toxic – however – they will drastically drop your HDL and total cholesterol. Make sure you take some good fish oil products – and I always like to throw in some COQ10 as well.

Thanks mate, Ill work on getting some clomid. My cycle was only for 1 month at 25mg ED in March, I Never took an Rx SERM for recovery. I feel better now but that's just feeling. Would you recommend I PCT it up before I start Ostarine again or just go straight for a cycle again? Also, regarding the floaters from Clomid, when do you realistically run into that problem, because that scares me just reading about it lol. I got sucked into Dylan Gemelli's nonsense, so I'm bitter about that, and filled with misinformation on what to do. 3-5lb sound amazing for me though, it's the regeneration that really sells me!

I actually have been having chest pain since off the cycle, I am going to discuss with my doctor, but I am wondering if it is a cholesterol issue, or what would actually cause resting chest ache. It's not strong and could be muscular.

 

[Smont]

The title should read....... sarms, let's start this

 

[Cycloman]

Thanks mate, Ill work on getting some clomid. My cycle was only for 1 month at 25mg ED in March, I Never took an Rx SERM for recovery. I feel better now but that's just feeling. Would you recommend I PCT it up before I start Ostarine again or just go straight for a cycle again? Also, regarding the floaters from Clomid, when do you realistically run into that problem, because that scares me just reading about it lol. I got sucked into Dylan Gemelli's nonsense, so I'm bitter about that, and filled with misinformation on what to do. 3-5lb sound amazing for me though, it's the regeneration that really sells me!

I actually have been having chest pain since off the cycle, I am going to discuss with my doctor, but I am wondering if it is a cholesterol issue, or what would actually cause resting chest ache. It's not strong and could be muscular.

You should never start another cycle without getting a full blood panel – to assess recovery. The three months following your previous cycle may, or may not be enough to have you fully recover – but I can tell you that at 25 MGs per day – you were most definitely suppressed.

Clomid Eye floaters – usually begin with dosages above 100 mg per day – based on what I have seen from logs and even much higher than that. A standard PCT of 12.5 MGs per day would have no such affect at all.

Regarding your chest pains - Low HDL numbers for a few months would not produce this affect (ie your arteries do not clog in three months from having HDL that's low – it takes years for this). However – I do not know the extent and severity of your chest pains. Have you ever had a physical – with an EKG or tested bloodwork before to assess how are your lipids are? Also – it depends on how old you are and what you have been running prior. If you are over 40, have never had a comprehensive physical before, have been running tons of gear – or have been abusing painkillers and alcohol – then I would get into see a doctor right quick.

The bottom line is – I think you need to get more information before you could start another cycle – get a comprehensive blood test to assess your testosterone, lipid panel – comprehensive metabolic panel – and, depending on the severity of your chest pain – go get a physical exam – to assess your blood pressure, and perhaps a stress test. Don't jump the gun on another cycle – even a SARMs cycle, without having adequate information on your current health. Most likely, the chest pains are caused by muscular/or Gastro – related issues – but better safe than sorry – and you absolutely must get a blood test before starting anything else

 

[YamahaC76]

You should never start another cycle without getting a full blood panel – to assess recovery. The three months following your previous cycle may, or may not be enough to have you fully recover – but I can tell you that at 25 MGs per day – you were most definitely suppressed.

Clomid Eye floaters – usually begin with dosages above 100 mg per day – based on what I have seen from logs and even much higher than that. A standard PCT of 12.5 MGs per day would have no such affect at all.

Regarding your chest pains - Low HDL numbers for a few months would not produce this affect (ie your arteries do not clog in three months from having HDL that's low – it takes years for this). However – I do not know the extent and severity of your chest pains. Have you ever had a physical – with an EKG or tested bloodwork before to assess how are your lipids are? Also – it depends on how old you are and what you have been running prior. If you are over 40, have never had a comprehensive physical before, have been running tons of gear – or have been abusing painkillers and alcohol – then I would get into see a doctor right quick.

The bottom line is – I think you need to get more information before you could start another cycle – get a comprehensive blood test to assess your testosterone, lipid panel – comprehensive metabolic panel – and, depending on the severity of your chest pain – go get a physical exam – to assess your blood pressure, and perhaps a stress test. Don't jump the gun on another cycle – even a SARMs cycle, without having adequate information on your current health. Most likely, the chest pains are caused by muscular/or Gastro – related issues – but better safe than sorry – and you absolutely must get a blood test before starting anything else

This is incredible. So I'll start respecting this more seriously. I was mislead to believe this stuff isn't such a big deal, but we are messing with body chemistry for sure here. I'm 25 to get that out there, and this was the first cycle I had ever done. Super new to this but I felt great. I am actually an incredibly cautious man, but Dylan Gemelli's forum was filled with people getting "irritated" I was even asking such questions. What a circus it is over there...

Regarding the clomid and eye floaters. I greatly appreciate you addressing my concern. This is exactly what I wanted. My final question regarding this issue is the length of time overdosing it takes for floaters to develope. 100mg is too long, but is it taking 100mg ED for a month that causes this? Essentially, what length of time are we talking until this developer and at what dose?

I will be 100% honest about my chest pain source, and this should help other users who may be dealing with above average mk-2866. I used stims for pre workout. The ostarine did nothing to my resting heart rate until about 3 weeks in, and then would elevate my resting heart rate the rest of the day. This was so potent, that getting halfway through a cup of coffee was like taking a good pre workout. I took a full scoop of a high caffeinated pre workout and during squats, I had some violent heart contractions and my vision and hearing started to go. I sat down immediately and the issues resolved in about 30 seconds (a very long 30 seconds) since then, my chest has never had Zero resting pain, though 95% of the pain has fully resolved, thus it may be a muscular issue...since I haven't worked chest in years. I did ask my GP about the pain, and he did not seemed to be worried.

So, my next favor to ask is how to use Privatemedlabs.com. I am in CA and instead of bugging my doctor to get this panel done (which he is hesitant to do) I would MUCH prefer to pay the fee and get it all done quick and easy without questions. I am sure lots of users on here have lots of experience with this. It's been a month since my PCT was finished (if you can call it that) so my baseline now is essentially what we will have to go off of, anything better than pre cycle bloods will be a plus.

Then you'll get the benefit of a new cycle log

 

[Nac]

Having easy access to a BP cuff monitor is mandatory if you use any PED. No SERM no cycle? No monitor, no cycle. Its a basic, fundamental measure.

Every mofo should have one.

 

[Cycloman]

yamaha - Regsrding Clomid there is no way to tell what dosage or for how long would cause floaters. I checked some other forums and indeed people have reported that but it seems quite rare, especially for the dose and duration you would be using for PCT. if you are really concerned you could run Nolvadex at 10mg/day with an AI (Adex - .5 mg every 3rd or 4th day).

I don't have any experience with PrivateMedLabs but from what I understand you order your panel online, pay for it and then go to an approved lab for the blood draw. It's all online.

Regarding your heart - I think I know exactly what's going on - it's a palpitation with a bit of arrhythmia brought on by the stims and Osta. Drop the stims bro. Bad sh@t. The best thing is coffee. The junk in the preworkout fuel is practically amphetamines. No wonder you had chest pains.

 

[YamahaC76]

yamaha - Regsrding Clomid there is no way to tell what dosage or for how long would cause floaters. I checked some other forums and indeed people have reported that but it seems quite rare, especially for the dose and duration you would be using for PCT. if you are really concerned you could run Nolvadex at 10mg/day with an AI (Adex - .5 mg every 3rd or 4th day).

I don't have any experience with PrivateMedLabs but from what I understand you order your panel online, pay for it and then go to an approved lab for the blood draw. It's all online.

Regarding your heart - I think I know exactly what's going on - it's a palpitation with a bit of arrhythmia brought on by the stims and Osta. Drop the stims bro. Bad sh@t. The best thing is coffee. The junk in the preworkout fuel is practically amphetamines. No wonder you had chest pains.

How do people like Nolva vs Clomid? If I have accurate information, then it's of no concern to me I do have Nolva on hand actually, 10mg tablets. Can I use exemstane instead of arimidex? Clomid appealed to me more, as I know 3 AAS users in my gym, all used Clomid.

This is a ridiculous question, but I am actually getting FUE Hair transplant surgery sometime in December/January, so hair loss on top isn't a huge concern at it's current rate. BUT, how severe is the hair loss on Nolva vs Clomid. I do have bad genetics in this area. I've heard Nolva is bad for hair.
Alright, I see. Yeah I have been taking stims without cycling off for a long time. My family has good hearts, and I don't want to permanently damage mine and have a heart attack at 55....or younger!
Cycloman I appreciate your help man, You're really sifting out my concerns and tackling the BS head on in a very informative manner. This is actually a pain to get this much info. While I'm at it, is there anything for a caffeine detox? Get my receptors back up.

 

[Cycloman]

No problem bro that's what we are here for.

As to your questions:
- People generally swear by one Serm or another. Clomid is actually a better pituitary agonist than Nolvadex (meaning it can make your body produce Testosterone easier) but people have gotten great results from Nolvadex. Personally, it didn't do much for me but low dose Clomid at 12.5 mg day jacked by Test post cycle to 1,000. The mistake people make is running Serms with doses too high or stacking them. Just pick one or the other. I'd go with Clomid at the dose I mentioned and take it at night.

You can use exemstane (aka Aromasin) but Arimidex is more forgiving. Aromasin eliminates estrogen while Adex works differently and won't crash your Estrogen so fast.

Don't worry about hair loss - not an Issue at the doses you are running at all.

Regarding caffeine/ stim withdrawal - check out Rhodiola Rosea. It's an adaptogen which means it helps your body adapt to things - particularly stress / withdrawals. Works wonders. 250-500 mg /day.

 

[BamBam0319]

Aromasin/exemestane has actually become the preferred PCT AI. It's suicidal which means you won't get a rebound once you come off of it. Which is definitely something you don't want as you end your PCT and enter your natty phase between cycles.

 

[Sparkss]

As promised, here is the blood work from my recent LGD run. 12 weeks (11 weeks at 8mg, the last 1 week at 16mg).

Here are my post LGD run blood work results.

Not at all what I expected. My liver took a beating, my lipids actually improved (marginally, except for my HDL, which got worse) and my kidneys were relatively unchanged. and my hemocrit #s jumped, but that may have been the result of my TRT dosage being out of whack and it is now lowered and back in line. I have a blood donation scheduled for this weekend to hopefully take care of that.

I take NAC (600mg 2x a day) and Cholesterol support that includes Policosanol. Those are just part of my daily vitamin regime, along with fish oil and a multi. I am debating taking some TUDCA for a couple of weeks, or just let my liver recover normally (laying off of alcohol for a while).

 

[YamahaC76]

Cycloman

You've been a huge help mate, I'm eager to try my cycle out and finish it this time. If you could help lay out a cycle for me, I'd appreciate it. Iv'e seen anywhere from 6-12 week run on Ostarine so I'm curious as to what you have to say. I have a few questions finishing up on this subject and Ill be a lot more confident. They are regarding On Cycle Side Effects. I have a lot, so a longer cycle isn't an issue, just want to recover fully. To be honest, I have always been fairly sensitive to compounds.

How do I deal with the eventual break outs I will get? I never had acne, not even as a teen so the constant breakouts were quite terrible and I couldn't seem to manage them, and started to lightly scar. Second, when should I start taking the AI at a consistent dose. I still take 6.5mg of exemestane time to time and I love the effect.

Right now Im looking at
6 week run:

MK-2866 15/15/15/15/15/15
Exemestane:?/?/?/?/?/? The reason being is I didn't have estrogen issues until 3 weeks in @25mg ED, and even then, 12.5mg single dose completely resolved my issues. So I don't think this is a major concern as It is easily controlled.

PCT: Clomid 12.5/12.5/12.5 ED dosed at night. (Does liquid or tablet make a difference?)
OL Super PCT: As instructed.
Exemstane: As needed, perhaps 6.5mg Every 3rd day.

I have M-Test by CEL In my possession.

 

[Cycloman]

Cycloman

You've been a huge help mate, I'm eager to try my cycle out and finish it this time. If you could help lay out a cycle for me, I'd appreciate it. Iv'e seen anywhere from 6-12 week run on Ostarine so I'm curious as to what you have to say. I have a few questions finishing up on this subject and Ill be a lot more confident. They are regarding On Cycle Side Effects. I have a lot, so a longer cycle isn't an issue, just want to recover fully. To be honest, I have always been fairly sensitive to compounds.

How do I deal with the eventual break outs I will get? I never had acne, not even as a teen so the constant breakouts were quite terrible and I couldn't seem to manage them, and started to lightly scar. Second, when should I start taking the AI at a consistent dose. I still take 6.5mg of exemestane time to time and I love the effect.

Right now Im looking at
6 week run:

MK-2866 15/15/15/15/15/15
Exemestane:?/?/?/?/?/? The reason being is I didn't have estrogen issues until 3 weeks in @25mg ED, and even then, 12.5mg single dose completely resolved my issues. So I don't think this is a major concern as It is easily controlled.

PCT: Clomid 12.5/12.5/12.5 ED dosed at night. (Does liquid or tablet make a difference?)
OL Super PCT: As instructed.
Exemstane: As needed, perhaps 6.5mg Every 3rd day.

I have M-Test by CEL In my possession.

Bro your PCT is a mess. Get bloods done and post back so we know what we're dealing with to make sure you have even recovered and are ready for your next cycle. I have a feeling you're probably going to find you are still suppressed – or other bloodwork is going to be out of whack which may need you're going to have to take a break from this stuff, or possibly do a PCT now.

 

[Sparkss]

mk677.. couldnt handle the tiredness

and now new evidence suggests it is a bit intense every day, better to take a break and take every 48 hours

I have heard this before, but have not been able to find the studies or articles to back it up. I am not saying it is not true, just that I would like to read up the source. Do you happen to have any links? Thanks.

 

[Cycloman]

I have heard this before, but have not been able to find the studies or articles to back it up. I am not saying it is not true, just that I would like to read up the source. Do you happen to have any links? Thanks.

It's very true. The GH pulses (and GH in general) increase lethargy. It's all dose dependent. At 9-12 mg/ day I was fine but running at the full 25mg/day dose I was exhausted (and bloated and hungry all the time). The lower dose taken at night had no such side effects. I run it EOD now for healing with good success but for mass you need to take it every day IMO.

 

[Sparkss]

It's very true. The GH pulses (and GH in general) increase lethargy. It's all dose dependent. At 9-12 mg/ day I was fine but running at the full 25mg/day dose I was exhausted (and bloated and hungry all the time). The lower dose taken at night had no such side effects. I run it EOD now for healing with good success but for mass you need to take it every day IMO.

I was on 10mg ED and did not notice any negative affects. After 8 or so weeks of that I bumped it to 20mg ED (at bedtime). I sleep better (than at 10mg) and wake refreshed. I have been on 20mg ED for almost a month now (somewhere around 3 weeks, would need to look at my notes to be 100% sure). I cannot take aspirin, but on someone's recommendation I started taking 1g taurine tid, with my meals, and any little bloat that I thought I saw appears to have subsided. But then again I also just ended an LGD run, around the same time I started the taurine, so that may have been partially responsible for the water retention and the subsequent subsiding thereof.

If lethargy is the only down side to running it ED, that is not a problem for me. I thought it was perhaps something else, more long term health impacting or related. The way it was presented with "recent information", and in other posts (in other threads by other posters), it sounded more like it is impactful to some health markers, not just quality of life (IE: lethargy). In fact some did imply that directly.

 

[YamahaC76]

Cycloman I see. To be honest, I do still think I'm suppressed, this is due to my noticing my libido has never fully returned to what it use to. And I've noticed this change. This could be due to my biological clock of going from 24 to 25 years old (if that's even possible? I don't know, I'm asking). I started my cycle my birthday month as well and it lasted 4 weeks.

I thought my PCT was at least alright! I thought 12.5mg was what was recommended plus OL Sup3r PCT seems to be a nice addition as well to clomid.

I never took an Rx SERM for PCT. I took Sparta Labs OTC PCT (older formula, so better in some ways), but after reading more and more, and getting the info from you and uncle Danes, I see the Rx SERM was necessary. I have about ten 10mg Nolva Tabs at the moment. Nothing else.

Lets say When I get my blood back somewhere around July 18th, and my levels are around the same where I was on cycle, what should we do? TBH a serum test of 300 is pretty low...and my libido has definitely taken a hit...not a "crazy" hit, but I remember being just as horny as being 17, TMI aside. So what regiment do you think would be best, since I am not going to disagree and would have to PCT properly before starting another mk-2866 cycle. I just want a game plan.

Also...Can I even get my HPTA system back to normal waiting so long to take clomid? This worries me...

 

[Cycloman]

Cycloman I see. To be honest, I do still think I'm suppressed, this is due to my noticing my libido has never fully returned to what it use to. And I've noticed this change. This could be due to my biological clock of going from 24 to 25 years old (if that's even possible? I don't know, I'm asking). I started my cycle my birthday month as well and it lasted 4 weeks.

I thought my PCT was at least alright! I thought 12.5mg was what was recommended plus OL Sup3r PCT seems to be a nice addition as well to clomid.

I never took an Rx SERM for PCT. I took Sparta Labs OTC PCT (older formula, so better in some ways), but after reading more and more, and getting the info from you and uncle Danes, I see the Rx SERM was necessary. I have about ten 10mg Nolva Tabs at the moment. Nothing else.

Lets say When I get my blood back somewhere around July 18th, and my levels are around the same where I was on cycle, what should we do? TBH a serum test of 300 is pretty low...and my libido has definitely taken a hit...not a "crazy" hit, but I remember being just as horny as being 17, TMI aside. So what regiment do you think would be best, since I am not going to disagree and would have to PCT properly before starting another mk-2866 cycle. I just want a game plan.

Also...Can I even get my HPTA system back to normal waiting so long to take clomid? This worries me...

For PCT only RX grade does the trick. All the other bunk from OTC products getting your testosterone back does not work at all. And, it actually complicates things – because if you have any side effects at all you won't know what product is doing it.

Clomid at 12.5 mg/ ed for a month will be more than enough for any Sarm cycle. You should run an AI (Aromasin 6.25 E3D or Adex .25mg E3D if you have Estrogen issues but you will likely not need it (good to have on hand and ok to throw in a day a week just to be safe). But no OTC Serm or Test booster.

If bloods come back with Testosterone that's low (like in the 300s) you run Clomid PCT as described above. It it comes back higher (say 475) I would wait 2 months before cycling. Also - its. It just your Testosterone you need to watch but also lipids and Liver and other markers. If these are off you need to wait. Remember time on plus PCT equals the minimum time off. Since you are young your HPTA will bounce back no problem.

What's your stats / goals and lifting experience if I may ask?

 

[Cycloman]

I was on 10mg ED and did not notice any negative affects. After 8 or so weeks of that I bumped it to 20mg ED (at bedtime). I sleep better (than at 10mg) and wake refreshed. I have been on 20mg ED for almost a month now (somewhere around 3 weeks, would need to look at my notes to be 100% sure). I cannot take aspirin, but on someone's recommendation I started taking 1g taurine tid, with my meals, and any little bloat that I thought I saw appears to have subsided. But then again I also just ended an LGD run, around the same time I started the taurine, so that may have been partially responsible for the water retention and the subsequent subsiding thereof.

If lethargy is the only down side to running it ED, that is not a problem for me. I thought it was perhaps something else, more long term health impacting or related. The way it was presented with "recent information", and in other posts (in other threads by other posters), it sounded more like it is impactful to some health markers, not just quality of life (IE: lethargy). In fact some did imply that directly.

It really only affects lethargy, water retention and glucose tolerance at the higher doses and even that levels out. Oh, and it raises IGF-1. (Raising IGF1 is the subject of much debate these days – with people saying that it promotes cancer to other saying it is a much needed life extension enzyme. I'm in the latter camp – but as long as you keep your IGF-I levels within high normal – similar to keeping testosterone levels high normal – everybody should be good to go – and this is much less of a concern the older you get. I'm over 50 so my IGF-I levels are already low normal so I use it to get it back to where it was when I was younger)

 

[Cycloman]

As promised, here is the blood work from my recent LGD run. 12 weeks (11 weeks at 8mg, the last 1 week at 16mg).

Overall looks relatively good except the liver values. Normally I wouldn't have expected to see an increase like this with a SARMS run any chance they slipped you a pro-hormone instead? How were the gains? As you noted - run some NAC. It may take a few months to come down to normal. Keep us posted.

 

[YamahaC76]

For PCT only RX grade does the trick. All the other bunk from OTC products getting your testosterone back does not work at all. And, it actually complicates things – because if you have any side effects at all you won't know what product is doing it.

Clomid at 12.5 mg/ ed for a month will be more than enough for any Sarm cycle. You should run an AI (Aromasin 6.25 E3D or Adex .25mg E3D if you have Estrogen issues but you will likely not need it (good to have on hand and ok to throw in a day a week just to be safe). But no OTC Serm or Test booster.

If bloods come back with Testosterone that's low (like in the 300s) you run Clomid PCT as described above. It it comes back higher (say 475) I would wait 2 months before cycling. Also - its. It just your Testosterone you need to watch but also lipids and Liver and other markers. If these are off you need to wait. Remember time on plus PCT equals the minimum time off. Since you are young your HPTA will bounce back no problem.

What's your stats / goals and lifting experience if I may ask?

Ill get some hands on clomid then No problem, Ill run it immidatley post blood work if it comes back low.
Stats:
White Male
5ft'8inch
Body weight: 154lb
BF%: Unsure but at least 15% Body type is skinny fat, I look thin, very light outline of top abs.
Age: 25

My Lifting experience is as follows: I started working out at 19, and didn't really pick up until I was about 21. When I was 21 I joined a local private gym that was essentially a hub for people my age, and still is. At about 23 I got a sports hernia that got to me mentally. I didn't work out because it hurt, plus I apprently just had bad technique too. This is what started my Bain. I waiting 6 months to get surgery, then 2 months post, I got back in the gym. I Eventually injured both rotator cuffs and had some tendon issues. I lost all my size, and really was a mentally taxing two years.

At some point, I couldn't even do basic exercise without pulling something or twisting something. I decided enough was enough this year after sitting on the sidelines for two years, and looked into anabolics. Got mixed up with Dylan Gemelli on his forum of SARMSX elites, but got my hands on some quality Ostarine by luck (not using sarmsx). MK-2866 appealed to me the most for tendon issues, and the recovery which I needed. I was tired of pulling things. I Also looked into TB500.

Previously let year during the olympics, I kept hearing gold medalist Volleyball players with 3 rotator cuff surgeries still taking home medals, so I got my as off the couch and got into physical therapy from August to December. But, this still didn't fully heal me, as I pulled my rhomboid that never got better until the doctor administered steroids to heal it (in February) I got tired of waiting...so,

I Did the one month cycle of mk-2866, started to have sides 3 weeks in and nobody on the isarms forum believed me or worst, demanded my source to persecute me which is simply against any forum etiquette..

But the remarkable thing was that even just the first week on it, I was doing twice as much in the gym, with no pain, feeling good to go after 48 hours doing full body each time (since I was just so damn weak everywhere). Next thing I know, Im back to lifting again the way I use to in my early twenties and felt great, all because of 4-5 weeks of Ostarine. So yeah, I want to do this again for sure. As for work, I work at this gym as well.

 

[Sparkss]

Overall looks relatively good except the liver values. Normally I wouldn't have expected to see an increase like this with a SARMS run any chance they slipped you a pro-hormone instead? How were the gains? As you noted - run some NAC. It may take a few months to come down to normal. Keep us posted.

I was wondering about the possibility of it being spiked, but hard to say. I know that I ran Sup3r-2 earlier in the year and it did not impact my liver values. I have been running NAC since before the start of the LGD run, and planned to continue to run it. We will see how well that helps to bring my #s back down. The gains were pretty good. I could definitely tell when I was on, versus not. Although I noticed more water retention while I was on, which also leads me to think it might have been spiked. Once I ended the run the water weight/bloat dropped off within a week and a half.

 

[Cycloman]

Ill get some hands on clomid then No problem, Ill run it immidatley post blood work if it comes back low.
Stats:
White Male
5ft'8inch
Body weight: 154lb
BF%: Unsure but at least 15% Body type is skinny fat, I look thin, very light outline of top abs.
Age: 25

My Lifting experience is as follows: I started working out at 19, and didn't really pick up until I was about 21. When I was 21 I joined a local private gym that was essentially a hub for people my age, and still is. At about 23 I got a sports hernia that got to me mentally. I didn't work out because it hurt, plus I apprently just had bad technique too. This is what started my Bain. I waiting 6 months to get surgery, then 2 months post, I got back in the gym. I Eventually injured both rotator cuffs and had some tendon issues. I lost all my size, and really was a mentally taxing two years.

At some point, I couldn't even do basic exercise without pulling something or twisting something. I decided enough was enough this year after sitting on the sidelines for two years, and looked into anabolics. Got mixed up with Dylan Gemelli on his forum of SARMSX elites, but got my hands on some quality Ostarine by luck (not using sarmsx). MK-2866 appealed to me the most for tendon issues, and the recovery which I needed. I was tired of pulling things. I Also looked into TB500.

Previously let year during the olympics, I kept hearing gold medalist Volleyball players with 3 rotator cuff surgeries still taking home medals, so I got my as off the couch and got into physical therapy from August to December. But, this still didn't fully heal me, as I pulled my rhomboid that never got better until the doctor administered steroids to heal it (in February) I got tired of waiting...so,

I Did the one month cycle of mk-2866, started to have sides 3 weeks in and nobody on the isarms forum believed me or worst, demanded my source to persecute me which is simply against any forum etiquette..

But the remarkable thing was that even just the first week on it, I was doing twice as much in the gym, with no pain, feeling good to go after 48 hours doing full body each time (since I was just so damn weak everywhere). Next thing I know, Im back to lifting again the way I use to in my early twenties and felt great, all because of 4-5 weeks of Ostarine. So yeah, I want to do this again for sure. As for work, I work at this gym as well.

I understand completely. I had used anabolic's in the 80s off and on with good results – although had lots of side effects because no one knew what the heck we were doing back then – but I too got suckered into the SARMs craze – and how they were "safe" alternatives and promoted feelings of well-being and healing. With all my lagging injuries from years of lifting and contact sports – I jumped right in – and I found that they did did a very good job of packing on some mass, and making my joints feel good while I was on Cycle – but was very surprised to find my testosterone had crashed as did my HDL. And of course when I posted these results on the site you mentioned I was also taunted a bit by the forum sponsors saying " i've never seen this before" or "come on bro, what else were you running?" Also, what they are promoting as far as cycles is downright dangerous – only taking 2 to 3 weeks off in between Sarms runs and that Rad140 actually increases testosterone and stacking massive amounts of Sarms is absurd.

Anyway bro, I will just offer you my advice in all of this – now that your joints have healed somewhat – and coming at you from an older lifter – I would say just stay natty for a while and enjoy your health and fitness – and maybe next year you could try some other products if you really need it. I wouldn't risk messing up your HPTA at your age just to get a few extra pounds of temporary mass. As I mentioned, if your testosterone still comes back low – you should probably run some Clomid – then wait at least another month and get it tested again – and if it is still low – well, then it may be TRT time – which is probably a much safer alternative. If it comes back normal, then you should put in a little bit more time training as hard and as smart as you can, and get in the best shape you can naturally – then assess your goals and see if SARMS are really needed. Just my advice man.

 

[YamahaC76]

Cycloman, I appreciate your help brother, I really do. Fackkk man, I really hope I don't need TRT. I did SARMS because I didn't want to pin in the first place, yet alone as frequent as TRT. I don't know man, I think I'll be fine...Hopefully!! I really do care about my body, despite some careless mistakes. I ran SARMS because I was preached too about how safe and non suppressive they were. I had never played with fire.

Yeah, ISARMS is a joke, even more frightening they demand your source which is just not cool. They live in a fantasy world where SARMS are non suppressive and you can run 3-4 at once. What a joke.

 

[dontsweatme]

I'm in a deficit now taking EC, Ash & F95 and 4 weeks ago I added in Cardarine. I'd say from a cardiovascular enhancement it's noticeable to some degree but nothing crazy. Today I started running Andarine. I plan to run it at 30mg/day for 10 days and then bump to 50mg/daily and go 8-10 weeks depending on results & sides. Hoping to not go over the 50mg/day but we'll see how I respond to it. Hoping for hardness and maintaining size & strength...I have a hard time holding onto mass during a cut...we'll see how this goes...

...into my second bottle of S4 now so I've put down 900 mg of this Andarine so far with the following dosage protocol: 6 days @ 30mg/daily, 6 days @ 50mg/daily and now up to 60mg daily. I'm splitting into 3 dosages taking 20mg every 4 hours and I've experienced no vision sides. I'm a pretty vascular normally but it's enhanced significantly! I'm also more full for sure. I've had a hard time staying in a deficit, my appetite has increased quite a bit but I'm still very lean eating at maintenance (or slightly higher some days) with minimal cardio. I plan to stay at 60mg/daily for another week and then maybe up it to 70 or 80...

 

[JahCure]

...into my second bottle of S4 now so I've put down 900 mg of this Andarine so far with the following dosage protocol: 6 days @ 30mg/daily, 6 days @ 50mg/daily and now up to 60mg daily. I'm splitting into 3 dosages taking 20mg every 4 hours and I've experienced no vision sides. I'm a pretty vascular normally but it's enhanced significantly! I'm also more full for sure. I've had a hard time staying in a deficit, my appetite has increased quite a bit but I'm still very lean eating at maintenance (or slightly higher some days) with minimal cardio. I plan to stay at 60mg/daily for another week and then maybe up it to 70 or 80...

How long are you running it total? Are you doing any bloods to see if you are suppressed at all?

 

[Pumpniron91]

What source did u use if u don't mind me asking ? Trying to find a legit one seems they're all hit and miss
Looking into enhanced athlete and Olympus uk

 

[dontsweatme]

How long are you running it total? Are you doing any bloods to see if you are suppressed at all?

8 weeks...I didn't do baseline bloods...I'm not sure if I'll get bloods after or not...

 

[YamahaC76]

Cycloman and to all. Testosterone results are back today. Serum Testosterone following using an OTC PCT for 1 month post MK-2866 cycle @25mg ED for 4 weeks is 538. Free Testosterone is 92.6. The mid cycle bloods drawn had a Serum Testosterone at 300, and Free Testosterone at 90.8. This cycle took place for all of the month of March 2017.

Free test seems to be very similar. Mid and Post.

I have not been having any issues with acne for the last few months despite free testosterone being very similar. This must be due to the stimulated androgen activity of Ostarine as Cycloman stated earlier in this Thread.

 

[Smont]

I thought we were supposed to end this?

 

[Sparkss]

Cycloman and to all. Testosterone results are back today. Serum Testosterone following using an OTC PCT for 1 month post MK-2866 cycle @25mg ED for 4 weeks is 538. Free Testosterone is 92.6. The mid cycle bloods drawn had a Serum Testosterone at 300, and Free Testosterone at 90.8. This cycle took place for all of the month of March 2017.

Free test seems to be very similar. Mid and Post.

I have not been having any issues with acne for the last few months despite free testosterone being very similar. This must be due to the stimulated androgen activity of Ostarine as Cycloman stated earlier in this Thread.

did you also get a CBC or CMP? What were your kidney or liver marker numbers?

 

[jakz]

I thought we were supposed to end this?

Smart ass well the poll gives it to "Sarms are okay" if you want that to be the conclusion?

 

[FRITZBLITZ]

Smart ass well the poll gives it to "Sarms are okay" if you want that to be the conclusion?

My researched but non-experienced opinion is that SARMS have a very good nich for now and the future. They are only useful for dodging steroid testing as a pro athlete where they can afford to pay out the coin to reverse all the damage they cause.

SARMS remind me of pharmaceutical commercials that list the side effects of anal leakage, heart attack, diabetes, coma, and death but at least it takes away your restless leg syndrome.