SARMs: Let's end this

[jakz]

Important question:

Did the SARMs in question come from an approved AM sponsor?

They can come from anywhere. The idea is NOT to bad mouth board sponsors or anyone else.

 

[yotreeman]

My experience is that they provide mild gains alongside mild sides, and that they are noticeably suppressive, though not quite to the degree of most traditional AAS.

The severe lack of any real long-term research on SARMs is definitely a risk factor, but I am of the opinion that it's fairly likely they are a bit "safer" than real steroids (not that steroids are really *that* unsafe, or that SARMs are 100% safe/side-free).

As an aside: YK-11 is a steroid, not a SARM.

 

[yotreeman]

But really if YK11 really is a myostatin inhibitor then that is pretty incredible

I seem to recall that in one of the very few studies/experiments done with the compound, it was altered to remove the supposed myostatin-inhibiting effects, and it no longer produced muscle growth.

Not that I could source that for you. I think it might've been the EA guys talking about it.

 

[jakz]

My experience is that they provide mild gains alongside mild sides, and that they are noticeably suppressive, though not quite to the degree of most traditional AAS.

The severe lack of any real long-term research on SARMs is definitely a risk factor, but I am of the opinion that it's fairly likely they are a bit "safer" than real steroids (not that steroids are really *that* unsafe, or that SARMs are 100% safe/side-free).

As an aside: YK-11 is a steroid, not a SARM.

Knew I made the mistake when I posted. Was hoping no one would notice

 

[Fastone]

Don't know if it's because of my age (64) but Sarms have worked well for me, currently running the Triple stack w\LGD 4033. Freaking Cardarine has me feeling like a youngster, so far loving it.

 

[Sparkss]

Don't know if it's because of my age (64) but Sarms have worked well for me, currently running the Triple stack w\LGD 4033. Freaking Cardarine has me feeling like a youngster, so far loving it.

I am only hitting 50 next month, but also have been really happy with the results from SARMs. Then again most of the human studies for them that I have seen use older participants, so maybe that is why they seem to work better for us "older" crowd?

 

[Fastone]

I am only hitting 50 next month, but also have been really happy with the results from SARMs. Then again most of the human studies for them that I have seen use older participants, so maybe that is why they seem to work better for us "older" crowd?

Whatever it is, It's been great so far. I have also experienced some unexpected very welcome health benefits

 

[The Express 42]

About to run a cycle of LGD 3303, not 4033. May try and log it since there is such little info out there.

 

[yotreeman]

About to run a cycle of LGD 3303, not 4033. May try and log it since there is such little info out there.

Very intrigued by this stuff. Tag me when you put it up?

 

[jakz]

About to run a cycle of LGD 3303, not 4033. May try and log it since there is such little info out there.

Tag me too.

 

[The Express 42]

Will do guys, probably start in about a week. It's by Cratus Labs too, so quality source. Not sure how I want to dose it though having only one bottle quite pricy. I believe it's 90 3mg caps

 

[dontsweatme]

I'm in a deficit now taking EC, Ash & F95 and 4 weeks ago I added in Cardarine. I'd say from a cardiovascular enhancement it's noticeable to some degree but nothing crazy. Today I started running Andarine. I plan to run it at 30mg/day for 10 days and then bump to 50mg/daily and go 8-10 weeks depending on results & sides. Hoping to not go over the 50mg/day but we'll see how I respond to it. Hoping for hardness and maintaining size & strength...I have a hard time holding onto mass during a cut...we'll see how this goes...

 

[BamBam0319]

I'm in a deficit now taking EC, Ash & F95 and 4 weeks ago I added in Cardarine. I'd say from a cardiovascular enhancement it's noticeable to some degree but nothing crazy. Today I started running Andarine. I plan to run it at 30mg/day for 10 days and then bump to 50mg/daily and go 8-10 weeks depending on results & sides. Hoping to not go over the 50mg/day but we'll see how I respond to it. Hoping for hardness and maintaining size & strength...I have a hard time holding onto mass during a cut...we'll see how this goes...

From everything I've read, anything under 50mg of S4 (andarine) is pointless. 75-100mg is ideal but also the dosage that eventually elicits the well known side effects, although they seem to be temporary in every person who experiences them.

 

[dontsweatme]

From everything I've read, anything under 50mg of S4 (andarine) is pointless. 75-100mg is ideal but also the dosage that eventually elicits the well known side effects, although they seem to be temporary in every person who experiences them.

Yeah I've read the same. I want to taper the dosage up and see how I'm feeling at 50mg. I may get to 50 faster than 10 days but we'll see. 8-10 weeks at 75-100 mg is going to get expensive and depending on what the sides are like for me may not be worth it...we'll see...thanks for the input!

 

[JahCure]

Yeah I've read the same. I want to taper the dosage up and see how I'm feeling at 50mg. I may get to 50 faster than 10 days but we'll see. 8-10 weeks at 75-100 mg is going to get expensive and depending on what the sides are like for me may not be worth it...we'll see...thanks for the input!

Isn't S4 at higher doses also mildly suppressive?

 

[BamBam0319]

Isn't S4 at higher doses also mildly suppressive?

Yes sir. All SARMs are by nature

 

[yotreeman]

Isn't S4 at higher doses also mildly suppressive?

All SARMs are suppressive at the low, baseline dosages people use for muscle building. I've seen logs in which Ostarine, largely considered the least suppressive of them all, has completely shut people down at I believe 20 mgs.

 

[Plex78]

I'd rather just run some DMZ and Msten honestly and BPC for the healing. Maybe MK but that's all, wouldn't touch anything else

DMZ is hard to find now, real DMZ that is. Plus it's a little harsh because of it being methylated.i did a run with it and other than the sides I really liked the results

 

[LAH813]

I seem to recall that in one of the very few studies/experiments done with the compound, it was altered to remove the supposed myostatin-inhibiting effects, and it no longer produced muscle growth.

Not that I could source that for you. I think it might've been the EA guys talking about it.

I love the EA guys. They're great.

 

[LAH813]

About to run a cycle of LGD 3303, not 4033. May try and log it since there is such little info out there.

Heard it's good stuff

 

[netflixNchill]

Don't forget s23!

My only experience with sarms is a RAD/LGD stack that I did for a month at 10mg each a day. Saw some impressive results, I'd compare to medium dosed msten. Whoever said they're not liver toxic is wrong though, definitely saw some liver/kidney stress whenever I pee'd

 

[BamBam0319]

Don't forget s23!

My only experience with sarms is a RAD/LGD stack that I did for a month at 10mg each a day. Saw some impressive results, I'd compare to medium dosed msten. Whoever said they're not liver toxic is wrong though, definitely saw some liver stress whenever I pee'd

How'd you see liver stress from your piss? I feel like that's more kidneys and hydration

 

[netflixNchill]

How'd you see liver stress from your piss? I feel like that's more kidneys and hydration

Edited, you're right!

 

[yotreeman]

Don't forget s23!

Just bought a bottle of that stuff. Not sure when I'll run it.

 

[Sparkss]

Don't forget s23!

My only experience with sarms is a RAD/LGD stack that I did for a month at 10mg each a day. Saw some impressive results, I'd compare to medium dosed msten. Whoever said they're not liver toxic is wrong though, definitely saw some liver/kidney stress whenever I pee'd

How'd you see liver stress from your piss? I feel like that's more kidneys and hydration

Edited, you're right!

I am wrapping up a 12 week run of LGD/MK this weekend and have a blood draw scheduled for early next week. So I will be able to compare pre/post blood test results by the end of next week.

 

[netflixNchill]

That would be clutch, we need more blood work on this stuff

 

[chemjr]

I say that it depends on the "sarm"

As far as ostarine goes it is a Very well researched sarm as it was to replace trt and help elderly w bone mineral density etc. It feels just like test with a small dose of proviron (if you have good quality shyte). And anyone who says they get estro sides from osta aren't using true ostarine. Or any sarm for that matter. Not how they function. Suppression was Minimal w me for osta but I take a lot of stuff like ashwaganda, "testofen"(it's free for me) and many Many other that he'll boost test.
The newer ones have little if any human studies.
Lgd- no studies on humans to my knowledge. Great bulker/"fullness" compound, but much* more suppression than osta. About as much as a low T cycle (3-400 for 6-8wks)
Rad 140- fkn Horrible for you! Do bloods prior durring and post and tell me I'm wrong.
Yk11- basically dht so draw your own conclusion. Not really a sarm but a DS.
*MK677- AWESOME* Great all around. Even when I'm not lifting I will always take this as an alternative to exogenous gh. It also has at least three well done studies- 1 elderly, 1 obese females, 1 I can't remember (possibly another elderly). Great fullness, antiaging, joints, bone mineral density, etc.
S4- total **** imo. You really would only want to add at Very light dosages for 2wks so why even bother considering you could loose your sight, or earlier than you would have later on in life. Or get that dreaded yelkow vision. Also night blindness and other crap. To hell w that!
Cardarine/GW- good stuff, buuut the cancer thing is something I'm seriously starting to wonder is More prolific in humans at "regular" (15-30) doses (the rats that got cancer were at 100x the reg dose!) Even with my skepticism, I'd say 60day runs in middle of a cycle to get best shred possible wouldn't be out of my wheelhouse. Take tudca to be on safe side as what I've seen/*experienced seems to be liver bound problems at the start.
That's all from me. Hope this hasn't been beaten to death and helps one person.

 

[chemjr]

They are okay but I'd rather just pin tren. My wife thinks rad is the greatest thing ever made though.

Tell her to get bloods for sure. Stuff reverses your cholesterol as bad or worse than winny! Tell her to pls be careful bro. Bloods bloods bloods!

 

[chemjr]

DMZ is hard to find now, real DMZ that is. Plus it's a little harsh because of it being methylated.i did a run with it and other than the sides I really liked the results

Can still find. Just gotta look around and if you can't find stateside, don't be afraid to order from UK or Poland etc. Electronic port (or other adjective- *hint)

 

[chemjr]

I am wrapping up a 12 week run of LGD/MK this weekend and have a blood draw scheduled for early next week. So I will be able to compare pre/post blood test results by the end of next week.

PLEEEEAAASSE post brother (in this thread would he perfect, or start your own to encourage others to join in!) This is Exactly what's this forum needs! Good man.

 

[Sparkss]

PLEEEEAAASSE post brother (in this thread would he perfect, or start your own to encourage others to join in!) This is Exactly what's this forum needs! Good man.

To start off I am on doctor administered/monitored TRT (currently using pellets, switching to shots at the end of this run of pellets, in 1 ~ 2 months). So I can't comment on suppression or suppression caused lethargy.

I have some GW (10mg), Osta (3mg) and Rad (8mg) on the way, to test/run over the next couple of months. All of those will include pre/intra/post bloods. I chose 3mg for the Osta as that is the dosage used in the clinical trials, and even at that dosage some liver toxicity was noted by the researchers. At the higher (bodybuilding) doses there are many anecdotal reports of liver toxicity, backed by blood work, not "feelz". I also went for the lowest "effective" dose of both GW and Rad, and can increase as needed, depending on what the mid-run labs say about the lower dosage impact on my health markers.

Here are the numbers from the start of my LGD/MK run.

 

[Sparkss]

To start off I am on doctor administered/monitored TRT (currently using pellets, switching to shots at the end of this run of pellets, in 1 ~ 2 months). So I can't comment on suppression or suppression caused lethargy.

I have some GW (10mg), Osta (3mg) and Rad (8mg) on the way, to test/run over the next couple of months. All of those will include pre/intra/post bloods. I chose 3mg for the Osta as that is the dosage used in the clinical trials, and even at that dosage some liver toxicity was noted by the researchers. At the higher (bodybuilding) doses there are many anecdotal reports of liver toxicity, backed by blood work, not "feelz". I also went for the lowest "effective" dose of both GW and Rad, and can increase as needed, depending on what the mid-run labs say about the lower dosage impact on my health markers.

Here are the numbers from the start of my LGD/MK run.

View attachment 150363

EDIT: the above SARMs I have on the way will be run separately, or at least in such a fashion as to be able to differentiate the cause, positive or negative, of any health marker changes.

 

[Nac]

^good looking hcrit for trt. Be interesting to see if the switch to inj will change it much.

 

[chemjr]

EDIT: the above SARMs I have on the way will be run separately, or at least in such a fashion as to be able to differentiate the cause, positive or negative, of any health marker changes.

Perfect, ty for that edit. I would run the osta first, GW second, rad third as rad has shown very bad cholesterol issues in some. 3mg osta should actually be decent and feel like your test was almost doubled I would guess. GW will basically just increase endurance and maybe* help you shed a few lbs (person to person varies a lot). Rad- haven't touched personally but I'd guess will increase strength a bit more than osta and feel like a low* dose winny/var tab preworkout, with the medium to hi dose winny cholesterol changes. The rad is only of concern to me, but your dosage is so conservative (exactly like I would do) that you should be able t stop and reverse any sides you do encounter.
Curious if the GW will cause any negative sides, and if so, which ones/ will bloods actually catch them.
Also very curious if your creatine levels are high in your bloods bc of mk or bc you take some..? I feel like it does increase creatine levels personally (cortisol too :-( )

Good luck!

 

[Sparkss]

Perfect, ty for that edit. I would run the osta first, GW second, rad third as rad has shown very bad cholesterol issues in some. 3mg osta should actually be decent and feel like your test was almost doubled I would guess. GW will basically just increase endurance and maybe* help you shed a few lbs (person to person varies a lot). Rad- haven't touched personally but I'd guess will increase strength a bit more than osta and feel like a low* dose winny/var tab preworkout, with the medium to hi dose winny cholesterol changes. The rad is only of concern to me, but your dosage is so conservative (exactly like I would do) that you should be able t stop and reverse any sides you do encounter.
Curious if the GW will cause any negative sides, and if so, which ones/ will bloods actually catch them.
Also very curious if your creatine levels are high in your bloods bc of mk or bc you take some..? I feel like it does increase creatine levels personally (cortisol too :-( )

Good luck!

those labs were before I started LGD, but about a week after I started MK (at the time I wasn't worried too much about changes from MK). My creatinine levels have always been on the high side. I suspect due to the high protein intake (lots of shakes and bars to supplement my normal meals). Those labs are actually the lowest they have been in almost a year. But that is not the best marker for kidney health, which is why I also track my eGFR across blood tests. But those values have also dropped a little over the last year, although not enough to dip into the danger range, but enough to make me wonder if it is diet/supplements are just age related progression (deterioration). I try to drink more water. When I was younger I actually drank so much that I got sick from it and my doctor told me to back off my intake a little.

I take NAC (600mg morning and evening), to which I attribute my low ALT/AST #s. I am very interested to see where my #s are at the end of this LGD run. I do enjoy a glass of red wine or a whiskey in the evening, from time to time, but my hard-partying days are way behind me .

All of this is why I am tracking the impact from any/all of these compounds to see which ones my body tolerates best/better than the others.

 

[chemjr]

NAC/ glutathione is great stuff. So is tudca. Turmeric can't hurt and is good for inflamation as well. And many others. (I pair bromelain with my turmeric 95% curcuminoids w bioperine for inflamation. Works pretty well. I hear you're aging do I figure I'd help another "old head" out in case you didn't already know, lol) take care brother, and thanks again. I'll be watching for updates! Do osta first w labs so I can run a batch and feel better about it! Lol! (On trt also)

 

[Sparkss]

^good looking hcrit for trt. Be interesting to see if the switch to inj will change it much.

I had the same thought/concern with the upcoming change from pellets to injections. At this time I do not undertake any blood donations to keep those numbers down. I have been on TRT for coming up on 9+ months now. My test stays in the mid-600's during the bulk of the pellet run, so not on the high end, but enough that I can definitely feel a quality of life difference. My hcrit was lower before starting, ringing in at between 41 and 43. So not a huge rise, but at least 10% if we are going to look at it that way. That is another marker I will be closely watching with this next blood draw.

 

[Sparkss]

NAC/ glutathione is great stuff. So is tudca. Turmeric can't hurt and is good for inflamation as well. And many others. (I pair bromelain with my turmeric 95% curcuminoids w bioperine for inflamation. Works pretty well. I hear you're aging do I figure I'd help another "old head" out in case you didn't already know, lol) take care brother, and thanks again. I'll be watching for updates! Do osta first w labs so I can run a batch and feel better about it! Lol! (On trt also)

I read somewhere that NAC can be run all of the time w/o issue, but that tudca can actually be counter productive to run when it is not "needed" (IE: needed due to extra stress on the liver, like heavy drinking, pain medications or other supplements, like the ones we tend to favor ).

EDIT: I did pick up some OL Arm1care during the current sale at NV, buy 2 get 1 free, plus stacked all of the extra discounts onto it. So I should be well covered, if needed, when I start running those SARMs.

Thanks for the tips about keeping inflammation down. I have several standing prescriptions for anti-inflammatory meds due to a chronic back issue (getting old sux!).

 

[chemjr]

You should quote me on here if you want help w the back. I've had a bad back since I was 17 (genetics are lovely) and getting old Def sux donkey balls.
I will say most all rx anti inflamation meds are ****E! Aleeve liquid gels are awesome and I only take those when a handful of turmeric and kratom hasn't helped. Kratom is another great alternative to nsaids which are HORRIBLE for the liver. My father took for 30 years and his liver looks like a severe alcoholics with cysts everywhere, except they're not "doing any harm", or so they say.

I have many tricks up my sleeve. I also make custom tailored supplements, in case. And a sh!t ton of knowledge on all things pain/illness related due to back and many other injuries, RA, severe chronic lyme, and much more. And I keep rx's down to a minimum. Hell, I even take certain test boosting herbs n such to help w trt. (200mg of test cyp inj is really only 140-150mg iirc)

 

[chemjr]

Oh, and tudca can be crappy if not needed, but I could probably run 30 on 30 off for rest of my life due to all the **** I have to take and the fact that lyme lives in the liver.
But yes, glutathione is the tits. NAC just as well.

 

[Sparkss]

I was looking over my last couple of kidney results and decided to order some dandelion root, goji berries and Schisandra Fruit extract (all I found online as being beneficial to kidney function). They will be here Saturday. Better safe than sorry .

 

[Cycloman]

I am barely a month into a low dose Rad140 and Ostarine blast (2.5 mg and 12.5 mg respectively) as part of my TRT regiment and I am getting awesome results. Pumps are ridiculous, I'm up 10 lbs (waist stayed the same size) veins like garden hoses and stronger than I've been in 30 years (I'm 50 y/o). Plus, they are not screwing with my liver, prostrate or BP. (In fact my BP was 114/69). Lipids crashed but not as bad as AAS. So, yes I am a strong supporter and will use them going forward whenever I blast on TRT. ( One last thing I want to mention I did the same cycle last year when I was not on TRT and had a very good results as far as a recomp – but combining these products with testosterone took it to a whole new level).

 

[solidsnake]

About to run a cycle of LGD 3303, not 4033. May try and log it since there is such little info out there.

Yeah please log it bro and tag me in, I have a bottle of it that I'm itching to use

 

[Punymidget]

About to run a cycle of LGD 3303, not 4033. May try and log it since there is such little info out there.

Curious to how this goes as well. I am thinking about ordering some of the 3303 as well.

To start off I am on doctor administered/monitored TRT (currently using pellets, switching to shots at the end of this run of pellets, in 1 ~ 2 months). So I can't comment on suppression or suppression caused lethargy.

I have some GW (10mg), Osta (3mg) and Rad (8mg) on the way, to test/run over the next couple of months. All of those will include pre/intra/post bloods. I chose 3mg for the Osta as that is the dosage used in the clinical trials, and even at that dosage some liver toxicity was noted by the researchers. At the higher (bodybuilding) doses there are many anecdotal reports of liver toxicity, backed by blood work, not "feelz". I also went for the lowest "effective" dose of both GW and Rad, and can increase as needed, depending on what the mid-run labs say about the lower dosage impact on my health markers.

Here are the numbers from the start of my LGD/MK run.

View attachment 150363

Looking forward to seeing the post blood results.

I've been looking into getting a SARM cycle for a long time now and wanting to pull the trigger finally. This will be the first run on them, want to try something different from ph. Hardest part I think is finding a reliable source to get them from. So many places that look like they have paid reviews on the great google. O.O

 

[mike33511]

And anyone who says they get estro sides from osta aren't using true ostarine. Or any sarm for that matter. Not how they function.

You sure about that?

However, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) was significantly (P = 0.048) reduced with GTx-024 3 mg versus placebo, −15.8 ± 7.9 nmol/L.

A significant reduction in SHBG could absolutely cause estrogen sides.

 

[chemjr]

You sure about that?



A significant reduction in SHBG could absolutely cause estrogen sides.

Nice! Which study was that? What sarm? Dosage?
And I've had shbg impacted by orals and no estro sides, but that's me. So I guess I'm saying that if you think you're going to grow man boobs (true/ severe gyno) on sarms would be a one in a million case and could most likely be rectified if treated at first signs.

But I would think/ confidently say that >95% will probably not encounter them, and if so, at a VERY low rate. Maybe some puffy nips at worst with a high dose, multi sarm cycle. And most likely lgd 4033 impo.

Lots of things lower shbg, and according to many articles High* shbg will cause things like gyno, then again you'll read all over the male trt sites that low shbg can do the same and is a precursor to many horrible ailments. (Which I do believe if you're not taking things to lower it)

So, in conclusion, watch your nips. If your shirt feels like sandpaper then get some clomid/Nolvadex/anastrozole/exemestane (my fav but run LOW low doses and not ed). My take.
Any feedback?

(This is what I love about this place, intelligent discussion!)

 

[chemjr]

You sure about that?



A significant reduction in SHBG could absolutely cause estrogen sides.

That GTx- whatever was osta wasn't it?

 

[jakz]

Nice! Which study was that? What sarm? Dosage?
And I've had shbg impacted by orals and no estro sides, but that's me. So I guess I'm saying that if you think you're going to grow man boobs (true/ severe gyno) on sarms would be a one in a million case and could most likely be rectified if treated at first signs.

But I would think/ confidently say that >95% will probably not encounter them, and if so, at a VERY low rate. Maybe some puffy nips at worst with a high dose, multi sarm cycle. And most likely lgd 4033 impo.

Lots of things lower shbg, and according to many articles High* shbg will cause things like gyno, then again you'll read all over the male trt sites that low shbg can do the same and is a precursor to many horrible ailments. (Which I do believe if you're not taking things to lower it)

So, in conclusion, watch your nips. If your shirt feels like sandpaper then get some clomid/Nolvadex/anastrozole/exemestane (my fav but run LOW low doses and not ed). My take.
Any feedback?

(This is what I love about this place, intelligent discussion!)

Sometimes

 

[Nickespo89]

Took ostarine felt awesome every time I took it. I naturally have garbage test levels. I think a 5lb squirrel produces more test than me. But before jumping on the real deal I used it. When using it after 4 weeks at 20mg I noticed some estrogen sides. 0 testicular atrophy. Felt strong happy energetic. I think ostarine while on trt would make for a great recomp tool for most men 35+.

Took lgd 1 time. Great strength, aggression, lethargy is real...leaned out and got a little bigger 5-10lbs. But man it made me grumpy. That being said. With a trt or a 200-300mg test cruise lgd would be an awesome edition.

I have used GW501516 3 times. It works perfectly as it is designed to. However in doing so I was using the bathroom often. It gave me a clean energy. Similar to cordyceps with a little caffeine. And during my workouts it gave me endurance similar to a yohimbine and Dmaa combo. Avoid low Rep workouts on it. It inhibits the use of glucose for energy. I noticed that lifting 10x3 or even 5x5 type workouts would mess with my immune system. Give me cold like symptoms.

I want to try yk11 with a test blast. Yk11 chemically is structured very similarly to dht so I think it would go quite nicely in a bulk with some test.

Sr9009 orally pointless. If they turned it into an injectable...or a transdermal that worked well it would be worth something.

There is a new lgd coming out called lgd 3303 and it's supposed to mimic ghrelin...from what I have seen MK677 is still a better option for growth hormone effect.

MK677 by far my favorite. It gave a good bit of positive energy so I always took it in the morning. It made me eat like a horse...especially if I ever consumed any thc based product with it. THC amplifies the hunger effect of MK like nothing I have fever experienced. The recovery was phenomenal on it. I won't take it for a while due to how much I eat. When I do take it again it will be with cjc with DAC!

 

[RANS0M]

Tony Huge has some guys experimenting with YK11 as a test base, dosed at all the same time, dose throughout the day, in pct and etc...

He has a video on it on his YouTube channel.