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Sarm + Serm cycle; I highly recommend; wondering if this would work on sme prohormones

DREADLORD said:
While it's true that the person rightly named "Furious" started with the ad hominems, there is no denying that the condescension began with you, sir. While doing a 130kg bench press might be child's play for you, deriding the sense of achievement someone might have when doing it for the first time is a tad rude, imo. nevertheless, I did find your take on the use of enclomiphene while taking test quite belligerent. I mean, if one were to believe the numbers shown by Furious, how can we deny that Enclomiphene did prevent the total shutdown of endogenous Test production?

Given the terrible risk of long-term, even permanent loss of production, is it really that terrible an idea to use Enclomiphene along with the Test? Especially since this is enclo and not clomid? That said, I'm totally with you on the SARM usage.
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I wasn’t condescending, I just told him that 130kg is not that heavy and he can do that natty. Also, Enclo/Clomid is actually good by itself, but they won’t prevent shutdown on a cycle. OP’s “study” was done over 4 weeks and the sarm/oral steroid already affected the Test level negatively, another 4 weeks would shown even more decline in Test level. Lastly, OP never did Enclo with Test.
 
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BBiceps said:
I wasn’t condescending, I just told him that 130kg is not that heavy and he can do that natty. Also, Enclo/Clomid is actually good by itself, but they won’t prevent shutdown on a cycle. OP’s “study” was done over 4 weeks and the sarm/oral steroid already affected the Test level negatively, another 4 weeks would shown even more decline in Test level. Lastly, OP never did Enclo with Test.
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Once again, 130kg may not be that heavy for someone but as mentioned by the OP, he was elated by the quick increase in strength. Why must his progression be natty for a longer period of time? Btw comparing Enclo and Clomi as equally good is something I cannot agree with. The zuclo is a disaster. I agree that the SARM did reduce Test and continued use would lead to further declines. I don't comprehend the relevance though. The OP did not use Test and wanted to use SARM. About not preventing a shutdown, that would depend on the amount of gear and duration, don't you think?
 
DREADLORD said:
Once again, 130kg may not be that heavy for someone but as mentioned by the OP, he was elated by the quick increase in strength. Why must his progression be natty for a longer period of time? Btw comparing Enclo and Clomi as equally good is something I cannot agree with. The zuclo is a disaster. I agree that the SARM did reduce Test and continued use would lead to further declines. I don't comprehend the relevance though. The OP did not use Test and wanted to use SARM. About not preventing a shutdown, that would depend on the amount of gear and duration, don't you think?
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Sure, 130kg is heavy but not in the context of anyone’s bench press. I never tried to make him feel less, I even said it’s good, it’s just not that heavy and something he could have done without PED’s. Did his PED’s help him get it, I’m sure they did, I never said that they didn’t, just that his Enclo will not keep him from shutting down.

I disagree, I have had great success with Clomid, to me Clomid is great.

I really don’t know what you’re talking about. I told OP that it’s known that Enclo/Clomid does not keep you from shutting down while taking steroids/sarms. We know this because numerous people have tried it, including myself. If OP or others still want to try it, go ahead, have fun, he’s not the first and won’t be the last.

You can disagree with me as much as you want, I don’t care, I am right, and you know it.
 
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BBiceps said:
Sure, 130kg is heavy but not in the context of anyone’s bench press. I never tried to make him feel less, I even said it’s good, it’s just not that heavy and something he could have done without PED’s. Did his PED’s help him get it, I’m sure they did, I never said that they didn’t, just that his Enclo will not keep him from shutting down.

I disagree, I have had great success with Clomid, to me Clomid is great.

I really don’t know what you’re talking about. I told OP that it’s known that Enclo/Clomid does not keep you from shutting down while taking steroids/sarms. We know this because numerous people have tried it, including myself. If OP or others still want to try it, go ahead, have fun, he’s not the first and won’t be the last.

You can disagree with me as much as you want, I don’t care, I am right, and you know it.
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nope, you're wrong as much as you are gay
 
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Tickets here, get your tickets here. Step right up and see Feel Furious vs BBiceps at the love Island Glizzy Guzzler Arena. Tickets are $3 in advance or $5 at the door. Winner gets a free 4 week lean bulk supper shredder mass gain stack of ostarine, carderine and tamoxifen. In the event of a first round knock out we will be awarding the winner with a unlimited supply of no testosterone test base.

Odds
+400 to -700

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Smont said:
Tickets here, get your tickets here. Step right up and see Feel Furious vs BBiceps at the love Island Glizzy Guzzler Arena. Tickets are $3 in advance or $5 at the door. Winner gets a free 4 week lean bulk supper shredder mass gain stack of ostarine, carderine and tamoxifen. In the event of a first round knock out we will be awarding the winner with a unlimited supply of no testosterone test base.

Odds
+400 to -700

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Did I tell you that I did a bunch of Ostarine for couple weeks to use some ancient old capsules I had a while back? Year or something ago, I can’t remember what I got up to, but I just kept adding daily and hit like 60 or 80mg if memory serves.

Pumps were good, but it was by and large thoroughly unimpressive. That compound is trash, beyond what you get from the legitimate therapeutic dose. Soon as you start to go beyond a few mg/day, blood impact increases terribly while barely better gains.
 
Hyde said:
Did I tell you that I did a bunch of Ostarine for couple weeks to use some ancient old capsules I had a while back? Year or something ago, I can’t remember what I got up to, but I just kept adding daily and hit like 60 or 80mg if memory serves.

Pumps were good, but it was by and large thoroughly unimpressive. That compound is trash, beyond what you get from the legitimate therapeutic dose. Soon as you start to go beyond a few mg/day, blood impact increases terribly while barely better gains.
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I used to tell guys trying to get on trt to take 15 to 20 mg a day for a week or two before they would go get their blood work done it absolutely tanks testosterone for most people and I agree with you it is the most underwhelming ped I've ever used. I do know some people who love it, and when I say some I mean I can think of like two people that I've ever heard say they love it lol
 
I want to say there's a new esterfied version of it.

Just so nobody shoots me, I'm not 100% positive Esterfied is a real word lol
 
FeelFurious said:

Are 0% Suppression Cycles Possible? Enclomiphene + SARMs vs Steroids (Bloodwork & Results Below)​

So I read this whole discusion and thought I would chip in with my experience. I've attached bloodwork from several different compounds and combinations I've personally run, in the order I tested them:

  1. Enclomiphene only
  2. Ostarine + Enclomiphene
  3. Turinabol (Tbol) + Enclomiphene
  4. RAD140 + Enclomiphene
I started with Enclomiphene alone to establish a baseline and see how I responded. After that, I moved to Ostarine + Enclomiphene. My bloodwork looked great and showed no meaningful suppression, which gave me confidence to continue experimenting with this approach and eventually try something stronger.

Next, I tried Tbol + Enclomiphene. This was where things changed. LH and FSH didn't completely crash, but the signal clearly weakened. By week 4, my free testosterone had dropped somewhat significantly and very quickly, so I discontinued the cycle immediately.

After seeing the difference between Ostarine and Tbol, I decided to try RAD140 + Enclomiphene. RAD140 noticeably lowered my SHBG, which is a well-known effect. My free testosterone eventually dropped into the high 600s by week 8, which is still very high and well above my natural free testosterone levels. The suppression was nowhere near what I experienced with Tbol.

My personal theory is that Enclomiphene and SARMs create a tug-of-war. The SARM provides suppressive androgen receptor signalling, while Enclomiphene stimulates LH and FSH production. Instead of testosterone continuously falling toward zero, the system seems to stabilise somewhere in the middle. The strength of the androgen receptor signalling likely determines how much suppression occurs.

Tbol appears different because it isn't tissue-selective and can activate androgen receptors involved in the body's negative feedback system much more strongly. That may explain why my testosterone dropped so quickly despite using Enclomiphene.

Subjectively, I've experienced virtually no signs of suppression on SARM + Enclomiphene cycles. At one point I even questioned whether my SARMs were legitimate because I felt so normal compared to Tbol.

The results have been excellent, particularly for strength. My bench press increased from a 95 kg one-rep max before cycling to 130 kg currently. That's a huge increase in strength. Despite that increase, I still look fairly natural.

One reason I like SARMs is that they don't seem to give me "fake muscle" (glycogen and water retention). The gains appear much drier, and in my experience I've retained virtually all of my size and strength between cycles. I haven't noticed any meaningful muscle loss or strength loss once coming off.

So far, my experience has been:

  • Enclomiphene only: No issues.
  • Ostarine + Enclomiphene: No meaningful suppression.
  • Tbol + Enclomiphene: Significant drop in free testosterone within 4 weeks.
  • RAD140 + Enclomiphene: Some suppression, but far less than Tbol.
My next experiment will be YK11, followed by S23. I'll be getting bloodwork throughout both cycles to see how they compare and whether the same pattern continues.

Curious to hear what others think. Has anyone else run SARMs with Enclomiphene and tracked bloodwork throughout the cycle?

Bloodwork below :)


View attachment 260854
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When you did RAD+Enclo, that cycle was right after you stopped Tbol after you noticed suppression starting? If so, I wonder if you started RAD+Enclo from a natty base if you would have had any suppression or stayed functional like on Osta+Enclo. Interesting that on (an admittedly very high) Enclo dose that a fairly decent dose of Ostarine didn't suppress you at all and a pretty high dose of Rad didn't really either. Would like to see Enclo +10-20mg LGD 4033, Enclo +20-30mg anavar, as well as the stronger Sarms like YK, s23, LGD 3033..would also be cool to see if Enclo would effect suppression on something like Iconic Alpha Four or IML Gear Cream transdermals.
 
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