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Sarm + Serm cycle; I highly recommend; wondering if this would work on sme prohormones

50Magnum

50Magnum

Active member
If anyone is running sarms right now; something suppressive like rad140, s23, yk11 or even lgd 4033 I recommend clomid or enclomiphene and 50mg of dhea daily while running your sarm. I did bloodwork on 10mg of lgd and on the 7th week, my test came out to 480 estradiol 39, fsh was 5; forgot what the LH was and my natty test levels are at 404, I was running clomid at 25mg 5x a week on this cycle. But I still got lgd lethargy, it must be the compound itself because I felt tired for the first 2-3 hrs taking it and then I would be good; thats why I would dose 1 after working out and do my second dose near the late afternoon/evening. I heard people running 12.5mg eod of enclompiphene with sarms and they hit almost 900ng/dl test levels while running suppressive sarms like the ones I mentioned above. Now I know someone who ran anavar on here with clomid and their test levels literally went to **** still, but their lh and fsh was all good. I'm thinking maybe try running enclomiphene 12.5mg eod with anavar or tbol or doing a light prohormone like pmag, or hexadrone with enclomiphene. All I know is this def works on sarms, prohormones and steroids I would like to see if someone can log using enclomiphene with them and see if they get minimum suppression like it does with sarms.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
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whattt, all i'm saying is clomid and enclomiphene offsets suppression from sarms. just wondering if anyone tried doing this with a mild prohormone, obviously steroids aint gonna stop the suppression(possibly enclomiphene can).
 
it doesnt really work how you speculate. thousands upon thousands of athletes have ran SERMS while on AAS/PH/DSs.. the overriding idea is to take up some of the receptors to effectively control estrogen. not effectively keep from shutting down.
its seems to me perhaps HCG would be more along the lines of keeping the lights on in bawls during a cycle.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
it doesnt really work how you speculate. thousands upon thousands of athletes have ran SERMS while on AAS/PH/DSs.. the overriding idea is to take up some of the receptors to effectively control estrogen. not effectively keep from shutting down.
its seems to me perhaps HCG would be more along the lines of keeping the lights on in bawls during a cycle.
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hmmm, well all I know is it works for sarms, since sarms are selective androgen receptor modulators. I saw a thread where some1 was running 60-70mg of var a day and it didn't work. I know clomid and steroids people still got suppressed as ****. I've seen logs with HCG and it didn't do much for suppression when people got bloodwork done.
 
saying you know it works for SARMs is again, a misnomer. if it worked for you great, but don't try and hoist your theory up as gospel. there are literally no human studies to prove (or disprove) your stance on clomid and SARMs.

just so we are clear.. SARMs as u noted.... are selective to the androgen receptor.
SERMs are selective to estrogen receptors.

while the two terms share the selectivity aspect, they are not mutually exclusive unto each other.

wheres that perfect meme... @New guy
 
well here some logs if any1 want to check people who have ran enclomiphene with sarms. Also I ran Ostarine during pct before 10-15mg for 4 weeks with 50mg of clomid and some diesel test raw thrown in. My levels were around 800 ngl/dl when I got bloods done at the end of the 4th week.

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While this is a great idea in theory it never really works out well in practice. The most evidence we’ve ever seen is purely anecdotal. There’s a couple threads on here based off that idea which show *some* promise for the idea but no concrete evidence. If it was truly as good as people think then everyone would do it and pct would be unnecessary. I doubt it would hurt anything though and if you feel more comfortable using it while on cycle then go ahead and do it. I do highly recommend though against using a suppressive sarm during PCT like ostarine
 
Well man thanks I'm advance for when you become the guy on the forums who tells people to learn from his mistakes.
 
Tried it. Had bloods. Disproved it already. Toremifene at 30mg all cycle long, I wanna say 8-10 weeks of orals/transdermals. Drew bloods at end which are posted in the million page Clomid On Cycle thread that’s on AM. It shows very low test with slightly elevated levels of LH & FSH.

It did seem to make for a faster recovery when I stopped the cycle, but it only slows the test shutdown process slightly.

If you are using very light single-compound SARM cycles and not going very long, it will probably help. But these baby cycles aren’t going to do much eventually for you when you get near around your natural limits.
 
Hyde said:
Tried it. Had bloods. Disproved it already. Toremifene at 30mg all cycle long, I wanna say 8-10 weeks of orals/transdermals. Drew bloods at end which are posted in the million page Clomid On Cycle thread that’s on AM. It shows very low test with slightly elevated levels of LH & FSH.

It did seem to make for a faster recovery when I stopped the cycle, but it only slows the test shutdown process slightly.

If you are using very light single-compound SARM cycles and not going very long, it will probably help. But these baby cycles aren’t going to do much eventually for you when you get near around your natural limits.
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I remember going through that whole thread where you did the bloods; thats why I never tried running clomid with AAS felt like it would be a waste since test levels went to **** even though fsh and LH were fine. Might actually try enclomiphene with AAS though and post bloodwork again.

Well the thing is for people who haven't had many cycles under their belt; or have ran years of AAS cycles I dont recommend it if your trying to be a pro bodybuilder cause at the end of the day sarms imo can't compare to steroids/prohormones except for s23 and even that.... Like I said LGD 4033 was mild to me even at 10-15mg per day and I didnt really see much compared to just running anavar or turinabol. And running injectables blow sarms out the water. Sarms can only get you so far and running super high doses you might as well do juice. Like I said this will work for mild compounds like sarms most definitely since my bloodwork proved to me that I did not get suppressed on cycle.
 
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Yeah but it's not all about suppression

Both clomid and oral sarms are more toxic to the body than testosterone and hcg
 
CroLifter said:
Yeah but it's not all about suppression

Both clomid and oral sarms are more toxic to the body than testosterone and hcg
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yea I agree running clomid all the time and sarms probably isn't the best thing for your body in terms of overall health.
 
CroLifter said:
Yeah but it's not all about suppression

Both clomid and oral sarms are more toxic to the body than testosterone and hcg
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50Magnum said:
yea I agree running clomid all the time and sarms probably isn't the best thing for your body in terms of overall health.
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This is the crux of it. Track your lipid panel, with doing many short oral cycles frequently (SARMs seem to impact them like traditional oral AAS based on bloodwork we’ve seen in recent years) you’re likely going to be worried about longterm cardiovascular health.
 

Are 0% Suppression Cycles Possible? Enclomiphene + SARMs vs Steroids (Bloodwork & Results Below)​

So I read this whole discusion and thought I would chip in with my experience. I've attached bloodwork from several different compounds and combinations I've personally run, in the order I tested them:

  1. Enclomiphene only
  2. Ostarine + Enclomiphene
  3. Turinabol (Tbol) + Enclomiphene
  4. RAD140 + Enclomiphene
I started with Enclomiphene alone to establish a baseline and see how I responded. After that, I moved to Ostarine + Enclomiphene. My bloodwork looked great and showed no meaningful suppression, which gave me confidence to continue experimenting with this approach and eventually try something stronger.

Next, I tried Tbol + Enclomiphene. This was where things changed. LH and FSH didn't completely crash, but the signal clearly weakened. By week 4, my free testosterone had dropped somewhat significantly and very quickly, so I discontinued the cycle immediately.

After seeing the difference between Ostarine and Tbol, I decided to try RAD140 + Enclomiphene. RAD140 noticeably lowered my SHBG, which is a well-known effect. My free testosterone eventually dropped into the high 600s by week 8, which is still very high and well above my natural free testosterone levels. The suppression was nowhere near what I experienced with Tbol.

My personal theory is that Enclomiphene and SARMs create a tug-of-war. The SARM provides suppressive androgen receptor signalling, while Enclomiphene stimulates LH and FSH production. Instead of testosterone continuously falling toward zero, the system seems to stabilise somewhere in the middle. The strength of the androgen receptor signalling likely determines how much suppression occurs.

Tbol appears different because it isn't tissue-selective and can activate androgen receptors involved in the body's negative feedback system much more strongly. That may explain why my testosterone dropped so quickly despite using Enclomiphene.

Subjectively, I've experienced virtually no signs of suppression on SARM + Enclomiphene cycles. At one point I even questioned whether my SARMs were legitimate because I felt so normal compared to Tbol.

The results have been excellent, particularly for strength. My bench press increased from a 95 kg one-rep max before cycling to 130 kg currently. That's a huge increase in strength. Despite that increase, I still look fairly natural.

One reason I like SARMs is that they don't seem to give me "fake muscle" (glycogen and water retention). The gains appear much drier, and in my experience I've retained virtually all of my size and strength between cycles. I haven't noticed any meaningful muscle loss or strength loss once coming off.

So far, my experience has been:

  • Enclomiphene only: No issues.
  • Ostarine + Enclomiphene: No meaningful suppression.
  • Tbol + Enclomiphene: Significant drop in free testosterone within 4 weeks.
  • RAD140 + Enclomiphene: Some suppression, but far less than Tbol.
My next experiment will be YK11, followed by S23. I'll be getting bloodwork throughout both cycles to see how they compare and whether the same pattern continues.

Curious to hear what others think. Has anyone else run SARMs with Enclomiphene and tracked bloodwork throughout the cycle?

Bloodwork below :)


Bloods image.webp
 

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FeelFurious said:

Are 0% Suppression Cycles Possible? Enclomiphene + SARMs vs Steroids (Bloodwork & Results Below)​

So I read this whole discusion and thought I would chip in with my experience. I've attached bloodwork from several different compounds and combinations I've personally run, in the order I tested them:

  1. Enclomiphene only
  2. Ostarine + Enclomiphene
  3. Turinabol (Tbol) + Enclomiphene
  4. RAD140 + Enclomiphene
I started with Enclomiphene alone to establish a baseline and see how I responded. After that, I moved to Ostarine + Enclomiphene. My bloodwork looked great and showed no meaningful suppression, which gave me confidence to continue experimenting with this approach and eventually try something stronger.

Next, I tried Tbol + Enclomiphene. This was where things changed. LH and FSH didn't completely crash, but the signal clearly weakened. By week 4, my free testosterone had dropped somewhat significantly and very quickly, so I discontinued the cycle immediately.

After seeing the difference between Ostarine and Tbol, I decided to try RAD140 + Enclomiphene. RAD140 noticeably lowered my SHBG, which is a well-known effect. My free testosterone eventually dropped into the high 600s by week 8, which is still very high and well above my natural free testosterone levels. The suppression was nowhere near what I experienced with Tbol.

My personal theory is that Enclomiphene and SARMs create a tug-of-war. The SARM provides suppressive androgen receptor signalling, while Enclomiphene stimulates LH and FSH production. Instead of testosterone continuously falling toward zero, the system seems to stabilise somewhere in the middle. The strength of the androgen receptor signalling likely determines how much suppression occurs.

Tbol appears different because it isn't tissue-selective and can activate androgen receptors involved in the body's negative feedback system much more strongly. That may explain why my testosterone dropped so quickly despite using Enclomiphene.

Subjectively, I've experienced virtually no signs of suppression on SARM + Enclomiphene cycles. At one point I even questioned whether my SARMs were legitimate because I felt so normal compared to Tbol.

The results have been excellent, particularly for strength. My bench press increased from a 95 kg one-rep max before cycling to 130 kg currently. That's a huge increase in strength. Despite that increase, I still look fairly natural.

One reason I like SARMs is that they don't seem to give me "fake muscle" (glycogen and water retention). The gains appear much drier, and in my experience I've retained virtually all of my size and strength between cycles. I haven't noticed any meaningful muscle loss or strength loss once coming off.

So far, my experience has been:

  • Enclomiphene only: No issues.
  • Ostarine + Enclomiphene: No meaningful suppression.
  • Tbol + Enclomiphene: Significant drop in free testosterone within 4 weeks.
  • RAD140 + Enclomiphene: Some suppression, but far less than Tbol.
My next experiment will be YK11, followed by S23. I'll be getting bloodwork throughout both cycles to see how they compare and whether the same pattern continues.

Curious to hear what others think. Has anyone else run SARMs with Enclomiphene and tracked bloodwork throughout the cycle?

Bloodwork below :)


View attachment 260854
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I’m not really sure what you’re trying to accomplish? We all knew that Clomid + steroids do not work and I’m not sure anyone would care if Clomid + SARMS work because the results is not really worth it. Going from a 95kg to 130kg bench is good but something any natty person can do, it’s not very heavy, especially for someone that go to the gym regularly.

If you want real results with minimal shut down run short cycle with fast acting steroids and use Clomid/Enclo as PCT. The other stuff is just a waste of time.
 
BBiceps said:
I’m not really sure what you’re trying to accomplish? We all knew that Clomid + steroids do not work and I’m not sure anyone would care if Clomid + SARMS work because the results is not really worth it. Going from a 95kg to 130kg bench is good but something any natty person can do, it’s not very heavy, especially for someone that go to the gym regularly.

If you want real results with minimal shut down run short cycle with fast acting steroids and use Clomid/Enclo as PCT. The other stuff is just a waste of time.
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it does work dumbass, can you read? too much gear made you a bit stupid? And its enclomiphene buddy. Ive only been training 6 month, 130kg bench at 6 months isnt common unless of course we are all as awesome as you.
 
FeelFurious said:
it does work dumbass, can you read? too much gear made you a bit stupid? And it’s enclomiphene buddy. Ive only been training 6 month, 130kg bench at 6 months isnt common unless of course we are all as awesome as you.
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Did you start augmenting your hormonal profile as soon as you began training?
 
FeelFurious said:
it does work dumbass, can you read? too much gear made you a bit stupid? And it’s enclomiphene buddy. Ive only been training 6 month, 130kg bench at 6 months isnt common unless of course we are all as awesome as you.
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Did it? You said you got suppressed with all compounds added to “Enclo” (active isomer of clomid), right? Have you heard about “newbie gains”? That’s exactly what you got, any man that goes to the gym regularly should be able to bench 130kg, and going from 95kg to 130kg is not impressive and very doable as a natty. I get it, you’re a weak little nerd that dream of being a strong man but are scared of needles. Stop posting nonsense!
 
BBiceps said:
Did it? You said you got suppressed with all compounds added to “Enclo” (active isomer of clomid), right? Have you heard about “newbie gains”? That’s exactly what you got, any man that goes to the gym regularly should be able to bench 130kg, and going from 95kg to 130kg is not impressive and very doable as a natty. I get it, you’re a weak little nerd that dream of being a strong man but are scared of needles. Stop posting nonsense
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Wow, what a man, you use needles? wish I could be as alpha as you, I bet you get all the girls. Do you tell them your needle length to turn them on?
 
1HP said:
Oi, don’t scare off the new forum members!
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Lol fair enough - normally that’s a realization later on when you have already developed habits for lifting success that absolutely sabotage your romantic life.

You start innocent with a protein shake & commercial gym membership, looking to feel more confident at the pool or the club.

By the end, you’re training at a grimy hardcore gym with all dudes, blending tuna & rice cake shakes, daily injections, sleeping like Darth Vader in a CPAP with a sleep mask on a strict bedtime that doesn’t accommodate a social life 😭
 
Hyde said:
Lol fair enough - normally that’s a realization later on when you have already developed habits for lifting success that absolutely sabotage your romantic life.

You start innocent with a protein shake & commercial gym membership, looking to feel more confident at the pool or the club.

By the end, you’re training at a grimy hardcore gym with all dudes, blending tuna & rice cake shakes, daily injections, sleeping like Darth Vader in a CPAP with a sleep mask on a strict bedtime that doesn’t accommodate a social life 😭
Click to expand...

It’s just a phase!
 
FeelFurious said:
Wow, what a man, you use needles? wish I could be as alpha as you, I bet you get all the girls. Do you tell them your needle length to turn them on?
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I know you wish you could be me but you will never get there. Yes, I do get a lot of girls and no, I don’t have to tell them anything, they usually drop their panties anyway, just like you would if we ever met.
 
BBiceps said:
That’s just something skinny nerds tell themselves to feel less horrible about themselves 🤷🏻‍♂️
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The thing I wasn’t ready for was the extra attention from the gay population. There are obviously a lot of women who prefer a brawny man, but there are a lot of men who will just flat out tell you 😂 #bearhunters

I also wasn’t prepared for the amount of schmoes who would randomly solicit my wife via dm for pictures of herself flexing.
 
Hyde said:
The thing I wasn’t ready for was the extra attention from the gay population. There are obviously a lot of women who prefer a brawny man, but there are a lot of men who will just flat out tell you #bearhunters

I also wasn’t prepared for the amount of schmoes who would randomly solicit my wife via dm for pictures of herself flexing.
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One of the dudes I used to do strongman with had a guy reach out on FB to buy a pair of his dirty gym socks.

Think he offered like a couple hundred bucks.
 
Jimbabwe said:
I'd be willing to bet damn near every dollar in my bank account that Hyde is both bigger and stronger than you.
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Now it wasn’t a hit against Hyde (I know him) in any way, it was more me playing with that girls do like muscles.
Besides that, you might lose all your money 😂
 
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Hyde said:
The thing I wasn’t ready for was the extra attention from the gay population. There are obviously a lot of women who prefer a brawny man, but there are a lot of men who will just flat out tell you 😂 #bearhunters

I also wasn’t prepared for the amount of schmoes who would randomly solicit my wife via dm for pictures of herself flexing.
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Haha, yeah I had my fair share of attention from gay guys 😂
 
FeelFurious said:
You need to lay off the tren, keyboard warrrior.
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What is wrong with you?! You were the one that started this you dork. I wasn’t rude or said anything that wasn’t true in my first reply, you started the insults.

I never used Tren, but maybe you should so you can stop being this pathetic.
 
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BBiceps said:
Now it wasn’t a hit against Hyde (I know him) in any way, it was more me playing with that girls do like muscles.
Besides that, you might lose all your money
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Good thing I mostly just have crippling debt instead of actual money.

And mine certainly seems to like it, but the only people that ever say something to me about it (in the gym or otherwise) are fucking dudes lol.
 
FeelFurious said:
You need to lay off the tren, keyboard warrrior.
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Hey I wanted to touch on a few things genuinely, without criticism, that I hope may be beneficial for you:

-S23 is very suppressive, worst SARM if trying to minimize the rebound. For what you are doing, seriously don’t bother with it. It’s very hard on lipids, shedding if prone, can be tougher on liver & really makes my muscles crampy - plus aggressive, worse than most things. Not in a confident aggression, just pissy.

-Winstrol would do everything S23 does much better, for similar cost, if you don’t mind the huge lipid hit, while being less suppressive actually. Anavar would really be the ideal play in your situation, but you will need to use a Roidtest on it - half the Var I’ve gotten over years was low-dose Dbol. If you get Winny, you can probably expect it to be real as raws are cheap.

-Lipid health over time matters. And muscle takes a lot of time of exposure to really bed in. The more you do this, more time you are chronically living in an atherosclerotic state, these frequent oral cycles. I’ve done it - learn from my mistakes. I made radically better real muscle gains from just moderate amounts of oil AAS cycles. Orals are great for temp power or pushing through size/strength plateaus, but you don’t want to spend a bulk of the year on them. Even mild doses of milder SARMs, because of the lipid skewing.

-There is a diminishing return on gains with ligand activation of the AR. Look at the studies where they gave the chimpanzees large human equivalent doses of LGD per day. After about 15mg, most of the result was more strength and fatloss. So 100mg did more, but not radically more than 50, vs 25, vs 10, compared to 1-3mg. 3mg is 300% the dose of 1mg, yet it’s not triple the net benefit. That’s not how steroids work. So you are not morally superior for taking “only X” dose. Take what you feel comfortable with, because as doses go up so does risk but less reward. You’re looking for a sweetspot of benefits vs negatives to you.

-You don’t get any trophies for not taking X, but you must live with whatever you put in your body. If you took all the steroids at insane doses, you would still only ever be you: your genetics, your habits, decisions. They won’t make you world’s strongest man or Mr. Olympia, but you can bet that those guys take them. Genetics matter most. And there are many who are far more gifted taking nothing at all than plenty who use large doses of gear. Live for yourself! You get one life - live it in a way that is satisfying to you.
 
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