Sarm S4

I'm now finished with My run of s-4. My views are that this is a good product as far as fatloss goes but for building muscle it cannot hold up to AAS. The pumps were great the first 3 weeks then they were just average. I lost a descent amount of fat and my weight stayed the same so i was very pleased with that. Side effects are just the vision issues. At first i liked it because driving at night was great there was no glare from on coming traffic. This gets old very quick and the longer you take this stuff the longer it takes for your vision to adjust to the different light settings. sometimes as long as 5-10 minutes.

If this does not supress your HPTA then this would be great to use during PCT. I believe that you would keep all of your gains and you would most likely lean out some.

I will run this stand alone in 1 month after my pct is finished to see how well it works alone. All in all though this product is def hyped up and is not as good as it sounds. I never ran test but this doesnt compare to anything anabolic that i've run before. Like i said this would be best used for a cut to keep your muscle from burning away.
 
thanks for the review, much in line with others experiences, did you notice strength gains?, no other neg sides outside of vision?
 
that sounds good to me, did you dose 100 mgs, split twice a day?, was it 7 days a week, or 5 days? Bloodwork is going to be posted on another board from another user, hopefully this will settle the suppression question.
 
yes 100mg split 2x ed. 7 days a week. I'm wondering if a 5 on 2 off protocol will work better as it seemed to have died off in the last week. I will try that my next run with this. Can you pm me a link to where the test results will be posted?
 
Thanks for the thread joey, and all the feedback. I'm currently running the S4 as pct, at only 50mg/day, only on day 5 though, so nothing really to report. I started my cutter 2 weeks before starting the S4, and up to now, I'm down 20 pounds but my strength seems to be where it was at! Not fully attributing this to the S4 because of my strict dieting.
 
joeymutz said:
I'm now finished with My run of s-4. My views are that this is a good product as far as fatloss goes but for building muscle it cannot hold up to AAS. The pumps were great the first 3 weeks then they were just average. I lost a descent amount of fat and my weight stayed the same so i was very pleased with that. Side effects are just the vision issues. At first i liked it because driving at night was great there was no glare from on coming traffic. This gets old very quick and the longer you take this stuff the longer it takes for your vision to adjust to the different light settings. sometimes as long as 5-10 minutes.

If this does not supress your HPTA then this would be great to use during PCT. I believe that you would keep all of your gains and you would most likely lean out some.

I will run this stand alone in 1 month after my pct is finished to see how well it works alone. All in all though this product is def hyped up and is not as good as it sounds. I never ran test but this doesnt compare to anything anabolic that i've run before. Like i said this would be best used for a cut to keep your muscle from burning away.
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Good review, but i am not sure it is really "fair" in the strength/mass gains dept.. How much do you really expect to gain, when eating like that?

While i don't think it will be a GREAT mass builder, one would have to tailor diet around those goals to even make a fair comparison.
 
True, but I rarely need to change my diet when taking an anabolic to gain muscle. I never try to put on more then 5-7lbs at a time. Usually i shoot for 5lbs. Also when i take something towards the end of the winter I shoot for a recomp which this did pretty nicely. I've used tbol by itself with a similar diet and gained 7lbs while leaning out. The only thing i see lacking in my diet was carbs but why do i need to take a lot of carbs while i'm trying to lean out?

I've used alot of PH's, DS, and oral anabolics and while i liked the effects that the S4 had it just isn't as good as good as the other anabolics that i've tried.

As for the strength i should have noticed a big jump if this is comparable to test prop, but only 10-20lbs gain in strength in certain lifts just isn't that great to me if this is being compared to test.
 
agree with Joey about diet to a certain extent, to get the most out of a compound or anything training related for that matter, diet needs to be tailored to fit the goal. However, different compounds exhibit different characteristics and uses and will tend toward those regardless of diet. One would not bulk on winny and primo cycle, and one wouldnt usually not cut on dball and test. To an extent regardless of diet, the test and dball would yield mass and strength and winny and primo would aid in leaning out. As for the s-4, it is not a mass gainer, that is straight from the distributor, even people who have ran at higher dosages, 200+ mgs per day did not see gains in mass, although it appears that strength is dose dependent. This is more so a great aid in cutting/maintaining muscle and its great draw is lack of sides. If you want to blow up, get some test and dball, if you are looking to lean out, and not worry about pct, and most of the sides associated with aas/ph's, then this may be what you are looking for (the sides and shutdown are obviously still being found out as this is a new compound, but from most experience seems pretty side free, except for the vision).
 
isoc said:
agree with Joey about diet to a certain extent, to get the most out of a compound or anything training related for that matter, diet needs to be tailored to fit the goal. However, different compounds exhibit different characteristics and uses and will tend toward those regardless of diet. One would not bulk on winny and primo cycle, and one wouldnt usually not cut on dball and test. To an extent regardless of diet, the test and dball would yield mass and strength and winny and primo would aid in leaning out. As for the s-4, it is not a mass gainer, that is straight from the distributor, even people who have ran at higher dosages, 200+ mgs per day did not see gains in mass, although it appears that strength is dose dependent. This is more so a great aid in cutting/maintaining muscle and its great draw is lack of sides. If you want to blow up, get some test and dball, if you are looking to lean out, and not worry about pct, and most of the sides associated with aas/ph's, then this may be what you are looking for (the sides and shutdown are obviously still being found out as this is a new compound, but from most experience seems pretty side free, except for the vision).
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I don't fully agree.. You can take any compound you like, and if you are eating like a guy 50lbs lighter then you are, there is a chance you may see no weight gains.

For instance. I ran a Tprop only cycle for 12wk, wks 8-12 i added Dbol. When i added this, i began to lean out, scale stayed right about the same. I needed to bump cals by a significant margin, to begin seeing "mass/weight" gains again. I can't expect to eat the same as when i was 20lbs lighter.

What worked for you when you were 10,15,20+ lbs lighter, needs to be altered as you grow. If you have used the same diet, on previous "cycles", it may be time for it to be altered, unless you are spinning your wheels, and making no gains.


While i agree, this is obviously not the best option for a mass compound, I just don't think in this case we are getting a clear picture of its potential... Joey said "I lost a descent amount of fat and my weight stayed the same" ok.. That is MASS gain, in what looks like a pretty good sized caloric deficit..

I mean what can you really expect? The scale is not going to be moving a ton, when there is no water gain, and you are not eating enough to promote growth.

I actually have some S4 myself, and look forward to doing some "research" of my own:)
 
I see your point about diet, and recomp effect with Joey's cycle, and many of the other "research" that has been done, as most I have seen is done in a pct type setting, which is also not the best setting for gaining size. There is some anecdotal evidence about synergy with aas, so it probably shouldnt be discounted in a mass building phase, there may just be better options and it probably shouldnt be the centerpiece in such a protocal.

I will also be doing research with this compound, and am looking for the recomp effects, my subject is a bit older and would prefer to just improve on what is there.

One thing to note, many of the users report feedback associated with test that doesnt have much to do directly with muscle growth, sense of well being, increased libido, etc. So to people who hear "like test", understand that some of that "like test" is including these types of effects as well, which are still very positive, just not directly related to muscle growth.

Imprez, best of luck with your own research, keep us updated!
 
imprezivr6 said:
I don't fully agree.. You can take any compound you like, and if you are eating like a guy 50lbs lighter then you are, there is a chance you may see no weight gains.

For instance. I ran a Tprop only cycle for 12wk, wks 8-12 i added Dbol. When i added this, i began to lean out, scale stayed right about the same. I needed to bump cals by a significant margin, to begin seeing "mass/weight" gains again. I can't expect to eat the same as when i was 20lbs lighter.

What worked for you when you were 10,15,20+ lbs lighter, needs to be altered as you grow. If you have used the same diet, on previous "cycles", it may be time for it to be altered, unless you are spinning your wheels, and making no gains.


While i agree, this is obviously not the best option for a mass compound, I just don't think in this case we are getting a clear picture of its potential... Joey said "I lost a descent amount of fat and my weight stayed the same" ok.. That is MASS gain, in what looks like a pretty good sized caloric deficit..

I mean what can you really expect? The scale is not going to be moving a ton, when there is no water gain, and you are not eating enough to promote growth.

I actually have some S4 myself, and look forward to doing some "research" of my own:)
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You have to remember i was taking 40mg of tbol, then weeks 3 and 4 i bumped it to 50mg. This review was about S4 stacked with tbol not just S4 alone. As far as being in a calorie deficient i really wasn't at all. Maybe 200 calories below what i normally take in. I was still eating at around 2500.

I will be able to judge it better when i run it solo. Hopefully by then my BF will be at 8% and i can judge on how well it will work at building muscle. From the other reports i've seen on S4 most users reported fat loss not muscle gain.

The first 2 weeks were awesome though I had great pumps and muscle fullness/hardness then it just died off but that's when the fat started to come off.
 
imprezivr6, keep us updated with your results I would like to see how this works out for u. When are you going to start?
 
been taking for about 3 weeks, 5-2, at both 100 mgs and 75 mgs per day, very little vision problems, some strenght and hardness, no negative sides, no noticeable difference in regards to dosing. I would probably describe it as a good non-methyl ph, not as powerfull as the dienolone precursors, but somewhat like the MMV2 reviews I have read (have never used that one before), do not feel any symptoms of suppression, but not having bloodwork done either. Saw bloodwork on another board where a guy used it as part of and right after pct, total test he seemed ok with, but free test he seemed a little disappointed. I think a very good product for those wanting to stay away from hormones as I doubt it is very suppressive, I would not use a pct product with it. I doubt for most it will be a mass gainer, although some may gain some quality size, will help to lean out and gain decent strength. Also good in between cycles, after pct, though it may not be very suppressive, it also may not be best to use while recovering. Stacking with a test booster, or running test booster in-between may be good idea, purely based on bloodwork of that one individual. For example, 4 weeks of s-4, then divanil product for 4 weeks, beginning last week of s4, 3 weeks alone, then repeated.
 
isoc said:
Saw bloodwork on another board where a guy used it as part of and right after pct, total test he seemed ok with, but free test he seemed a little disappointed.
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My question would be: was he dissapointed in the comparison of results vs. other pct after a similar protocol? If it was just based on an expectation that it would yield better free test, I don't see how it would even help with that. It seems like, at best, it would be more of a "neutral" effect while you recovered. Maybe I'm misunderstanding though.
 
Sarms are not like a serm, they dont help kickstart your natural production, block estrogen, it is not a test booster, or anything like that at all. Sarms are meant to be non-hormonal, in that it would have no effect on shutdown, so to be neutral. The benefit is that while being neutral towards suppression they exhibit positive characteristics of hormonal anabolics like strength, muscle hardness, and a little lean weight gain. They would be taken as part of a pct, in conjunction with a serm, ai, hcg, etc, etc, depending on the severity of the cycle. The great benefit is that they would allow for continued gains in pct and as a bridge between hormone cycles.
 
isoc said:
Sarms are not like a serm, they dont help kickstart your natural production, block estrogen, it is not a test booster, or anything like that at all. Sarms are meant to be non-hormonal, in that it would have no effect on shutdown, so to be neutral. The benefit is that while being neutral towards suppression they exhibit positive characteristics of hormonal anabolics like strength, muscle hardness, and a little lean weight gain. They would be taken as part of a pct, in conjunction with a serm, ai, hcg, etc, etc, depending on the severity of the cycle. The great benefit is that they would allow for continued gains in pct and as a bridge between hormone cycles.
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Ok, that's what I was thinking. Thanks for the info.
 
just read something on that, supposedly the thought is the peg300 was causing and/or contributing to the vision problems, however, it was pointed out that other compounds (clomid, cialis) have caused vision probs before. Dont know about the other two, but if the dose is kept lower, around 50 mgs/day and the 5 on 2 off protocal is used, the vision is noticeable but not bad, and results in strength and body comp can still be had at that doseage, or at least it did with me.
 
isoc said:
just read something on that, supposedly the thought is the peg300 was causing and/or contributing to the vision problems, however, it was pointed out that other compounds (clomid, cialis) have caused vision probs before. Dont know about the other two, but if the dose is kept lower, around 50 mgs/day and the 5 on 2 off protocal is used, the vision is noticeable but not bad, and results in strength and body comp can still be had at that doseage, or at least it did with me.
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Could you be a bit more specific about the results you had from 50mg/day 5on/2off ? S4 is a bit expensive, but I could afford to run it at a low dose like that - I'm just wondering how good your results were and if you felt it was worth it?

Edit: Nm, just reread the thread and saw your post earlier.
 
definiteyl worth it, IMO. At this point, I only use legal ph's. I ran it as part of pct after PP's 1T and it was stronger than the 1T to me. I have also ran it as part of pct after furaguno and epi and it was stronger than fura at 350mgs for me. I did run it solo for a couple weeks after each pct and pct consisted of nolva and atd as well as the s4. This is not a bulking compound, but good strength (maintained and even gained a bit during each pct) and body recomp (lost no weight and actually looked better, fuller). I am older, at 37 and have run injects for 3+yrs straight before (years ago), so my natty test may be a little low, also weigh only 205 so not a big guy. Those are variables that may effect my opinion vs others.

For me not as strong as taking test, but stronger than some of the "cutting" ph's, but also at that low dose, probably not suppressive. I say probably because I got no blood work, but also did not feel the "falling off a cliff" feeling that I have felt during/after pct. I compare it against some of the other non suppressive compounds or things taken off cycle, creatine, no/prewkout postwkout combo's, test boosters, hands down it is better than all those by far.
 
Interesting, so did you feel that you were able to recover sufficiently while taking S4 during PCT? Did you have any drop in strength after PCT? I am currently considering this...
 
felt fine after pct and cessation of the s4. It appears that at higher doses it is suppressive, have seen bloodwork to show this, and even looking at research it appears as though it would be, but at lower dose I dont think it is. Long way of saying is dose dependent, and I think at 25-50 mgs per day you are safe.
 
I love sarms...I am over 30 and it is the only compound i will ever do again. No shutdown.....good stuff.

I like 50mgs a day, but thats just me.
 
i think at 50-100 mgs suppression is minimal, although the higher end I think may not be the best for an hpta in recovery, ie pct. One set of bloodwork revaled total test ok, but free test a little low. Maybe sarms combined with divanil would be nice combo. I personally like it as well, it is mild, but noticeable in effect and vision alteration ceased quickly at least for me. It has been theorized that most of the vision disturbance could be due to the suspension liquid.
 
isoc said:
i think at 50-100 mgs suppression is minimal, although the higher end I think may not be the best for an hpta in recovery, ie pct. One set of bloodwork revaled total test ok, but free test a little low. Maybe sarms combined with divanil would be nice combo. I personally like it as well, it is mild, but noticeable in effect and vision alteration ceased quickly at least for me. It has been theorized that most of the vision disturbance could be due to the suspension liquid.
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I have went as high as 120mgs.....but 50-60 is perfect for me at my age.

I also like the fact that its legal.....at least to buy. And pretty cheap considering the benefits.
 
Getting my S4 in a weeks time so will let you know my experiences. Haven't had any aas before so will let you know a natural persons perspective on it
 
so my S4 finally arrived yesterday and i was so excited that i couldn't help but have some the first chance i got. i'm only starting on the lower end of doses at 50mg per day but just wanted to see how my body would react so took 10mg or so (hard to measure at such small doses). Normally i feel lethargic in the afternoon so i'd need a pre-workout supplement like NO Shotgun or similar but today i was ready to go just an hour after my S4. Pump was really good, not out of this world but one of the best i have felt in a while without supps, nice little strength increase too. Hungry as hell after the gym. Had my regular shake straight after and couldn't wait for a big meal of chicken and rice. Even after my dinner i was still hungry but drunk some water to stave off the cravings. After dinner had another 30-40mg and no negative sides. Overall first day using was good
 
gymwarrior84 said:
so my S4 finally arrived yesterday and i was so excited that i couldn't help but have some the first chance i got. i'm only starting on the lower end of doses at 50mg per day but just wanted to see how my body would react so took 10mg or so (hard to measure at such small doses). Normally i feel lethargic in the afternoon so i'd need a pre-workout supplement like NO Shotgun or similar but today i was ready to go just an hour after my S4. Pump was really good, not out of this world but one of the best i have felt in a while without supps, nice little strength increase too. Hungry as hell after the gym. Had my regular shake straight after and couldn't wait for a big meal of chicken and rice. Even after my dinner i was still hungry but drunk some water to stave off the cravings. After dinner had another 30-40mg and no negative sides. Overall first day using was good
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get an insulin needle, pull the needle out, makes dosing easy, each tic is 10mg.....makes dosing a breeze. I like the 50-60 range. And if you got it from the same site i did...its the real deal.
 
days 2-4 - I feel like i'm getting leaner but no conclusive results other than how i look and feel. strength has had nice gains and pumps are nice and tight. really excited to see the results after a couple of weeks or so. not sure if its a side but had a couple of nose bleeds in the last few days. not absolutely gushing out but a slight trickle, might be just from the heat as it has been over 35 degrees c here (93 fahrenheit or so). No vision changes either so thats good. seems to work better when i take a bigger dose before the gym so might split doses into 10 mg morning, 10 mg lunch and 30 mg in arvo before workout on workout days. have read somewhere that half-life is 4 hours, can anyone confirm this?
 
gymwarrior84 said:
days 2-4 - I feel like i'm getting leaner but no conclusive results other than how i look and feel. strength has had nice gains and pumps are nice and tight. really excited to see the results after a couple of weeks or so. not sure if its a side but had a couple of nose bleeds in the last few days. not absolutely gushing out but a slight trickle, might be just from the heat as it has been over 35 degrees c here (93 fahrenheit or so). No vision changes either so thats good. seems to work better when i take a bigger dose before the gym so might split doses into 10 mg morning, 10 mg lunch and 30 mg in arvo before workout on workout days. have read somewhere that half-life is 4 hours, can anyone confirm this?
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half life is four hours....just splitv the dose in the in the morning and afternoon.

keep the doeses low and you will fall in love. Stuff is cheap to
 
From the research I have done among users people seem to say they are leaner, but not gaining much wt. I would say they are gaining muscle though. If you lose fat and your wt stays same then you are gaining muscle. Anyway, this seams like a heck of leaning agent. Agree?
 
Vegking said:
From the research I have done among users people seem to say they are leaner, but not gaining much wt. I would say they are gaining muscle though. If you lose fat and your wt stays same then you are gaining muscle. Anyway, this seams like a heck of leaning agent. Agree?
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oh yes, totally changed my body composition.
 
Hey Junkyard,

Are you using the original C's Sarm s4 or one of the new suppliers like L's one?
One is way less expensive than the other and at a higher concentration per ml.
 
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This is the part that scares me
The bottles, Thevis writes in Drug Testing & Analysis, contain 30 ml of an oily fluid. They are in a box with words with something like 'face moisturizer and green tea extract' on the packaging. One ml of the substance contains 150 mg S4, according to Thevis. This is strange. All the products we know of contain only 50mg/ml. Looks like a friendly Chinese bulk supplier was giving discount on S4.

The product that Thevis tested was not pure. Each ml also contained 15 mg of a compound that is produced when S4 is synthesised, and which the manufacturer should have purified out of the preparation. The structural formula of the contaminant is shown here below.
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