SARM Info

RTD1 said:
The point is that people are using it and not seeing anything notable in terms of either size or strength, are seeing their natural test production shutdown, and are getting ****ty sides like vision problems. We can argue how this stuff is the best thing since sliced bread in THEORY or what the proper dose is in THEORY or how the gains will be slow but 100% dry in THEORY but the REALITY is that people who are using it are saying it's crap. Maybe someday there will be a SARM that is comparable in effect to AAS, I don't know, but S4 sure as hell ain't it.
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Has nothing to do with theory -- has everything to do with people's expectations being out of whack. I have every belief that this stuff is bunk and therefore is not the best thing since sliced bread. Funny how everyone thinks the steroids that do not load water (primo, anavar, etc) are weak and ineffective.
 
sethroberts said:
Has nothing to do with theory -- has everything to do with people's expectations being out of whack. I have every belief that this stuff is bunk and therefore is not the best thing since sliced bread. Funny how everyone thinks the steroids that do not load water (primo, anavar, etc) are weak and ineffective.
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Nobody thinks primo and anavar are "weak and ineffective", just that they're milder than some other AAS. S4, on the other hand, apparently is way weaker than even primo/anavar, but has weird sides.
 
RTD1 said:
Nobody thinks primo and anavar are "weak and ineffective", just that they're milder than some other AAS. S4, on the other hand, apparently is way weaker than even primo/anavar, but has weird sides.
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I agree with the weird sides part -- but again, we do not know if this is really S-4 or if the manufacturer is simply substituting something else that has vision side effects that seem similar to these.
 
this an article by Anthony Roberts

Anthony Roberts this guy is Brian Clapps business associate,
they run the all the steroid scams sites on the internet
they have about 50 sites that never ship the steroids, they arent steroids or there less then vet grade, made in some bathtub in the Philippines and way underdosed filled with bacteria and possibly contaminated with lead and cyanide
he is not a reputable source of information
 
sethroberts said:
I agree with the weird sides part -- but again, we do not know if this is really S-4 or if the manufacturer is simply substituting something else that has vision side effects that seem similar to these.
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could u share your theory on what u think this S4 is.
 
well, who knows, but i did come across this today.

s4 tested.

The SARM which is closest to being marketable is S4 or andarine. The makers of S4 are already doing human trials. S4 is primarily intended for cancer sufferers who are losing muscle mass. At first it looked as though S4 might not be such an effective muscle enhancer, but later studies have proved otherwise. Pat Arnold has posted information on it, although his postings indicated that he doesn’t regard S4 as worthwhile marketing. ‘Too expensive’ was Arnold’s verdict. There are also postings on message boards from athletes who experiment on themselves with S4. [Structural formula shown below.]

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Mario Thevis was prompted by the web discussions to go in search of websites claiming to sell S4. He came across *** Products, which recently started selling S4. For research purposes, not for human consumption, we should add here.


The bottles, Thevis writes in Drug Testing & Analysis, contain 30 ml of an oily fluid. They are in a box with words with something like 'face moisturizer and green tea extract' on the packaging. One ml of the substance contains 150 mg S4, according to Thevis. This is strange. All the products we know of contain only 50mg/ml. Looks like a friendly Chinese bulk supplier was giving discount on S4.


The product that Thevis tested was not pure. Each ml also contained 15 mg of a compound that is produced when S4 is synthesised, and which the manufacturer should have purified out of the preparation. The structural formula of the contaminant is shown here below.
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For Thevis this is evidence that this S4 does not come from a legally operating company. And that S4 is used by chemical athletes. "The present report demonstrates once more that the misuse of therapeutics in early or advanced clinical trials by athletes cannot be dismissed, especially when anecdotal evidence for the misuse of S4 is frequently discussed in respective Internet-based chat rooms", Thevis concludes.


Maybe it’s just a coincidence, but ******* has published a lab analysis on its website, which states that *** Products’ Liquid S4 does not contain contaminants.


Source:
Drug Test. Analysis 2009, 1, 387–392.
 
i would guess a person will have to buy some and test it themselves.

hmm....wonder how it would do when stacked with something like clen.

im tempted to buy some, but would have to save it until more is known on it. side effects and etc.

i'd be pissed if i payed ***.** dollars for clomid. lol.
 
Liftingstud said:
I don't see where this 100-150mg is coming from.... All the research I have seen from GTx shows a lot lower dosage, 3mg/mL. I have seen these posts where people claim to be running this higher dosage but the bottle of S4 for my lab rats is 3mg/mL???!????????
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I think I can answer your question. Chavo, one of the first people selling S-4 on Pro Muscle, recommended a dose of 1-3 mg per kg per day, as he said, "based on current clinical trials," so that's what guys have started using it at. I pressed him for what those clinical trials were and he had nothing to say, because they don't exist. The only clinical trials on S-4 are the ones that GTx is doing for Ostarine (their brand name for S-4). But as others have mentioned, their clinical trials used up to 3mg TOTAL per day, not per kg of bodyweight per day. That's a huge difference. The dosing for this chemical has been WAY too high, because one of the main people selling it does not understand (or misunderstood) the research. I think that the yellow vision that people are reporting is possibly a side effect of acute overdose of S-4. It could also be contaminants in the product. Regardless, you sure don't need hundreds of milligrams per day.
 
imprezivr6 said:
Either way.. There is a point of diminishing returns.. What if that point is 5mg, 10mg, etc.
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Invalid Link Removed on S-4 in rats found that anabolism in muscle was maxed out at around 0.75 mg or 2.82 mg/kg of S-4 per day (see results in the levator ani Invalid Link Removed, bottom image, filled triangles). When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, the dose of S-4 that maxes out the anabolic response would be around 0.46 mg/kg. In a 200 lb male, that works out to about 40 mg/day. That may sound low, but it's still 13 times higher than the highest dose they used in the clinical trials.
 
Conciliator said:
I think I can answer your question. Chavo, one of the first people selling S-4 on Pro Muscle, recommended a dose of 1-3 mg per kg per day, as he said, "based on current clinical trials," so that's what guys have started using it at. I pressed him for what those clinical trials were and he had nothing to say, because they don't exist. The only clinical trials on S-4 are the ones that GTx is doing for Ostarine (their brand name for S-4). But as others have mentioned, their clinical trials used up to 3mg TOTAL per day, not per kg of bodyweight per day. That's a huge difference. The dosing for this chemical has been WAY too high, because one of the main people selling it does not understand (or misunderstood) the research. I think that the yellow vision that people are reporting is possibly a side effect of acute overdose of S-4. It could also be contaminants in the product. Regardless, you sure don't need hundreds of milligrams per day.
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I wholeheartedly agree.
 
nomoredex said:
this an article by Anthony Roberts

Anthony Roberts this guy is Brian Clapps business associate,
they run the all the steroid scams sites on the internet
they have about 50 sites that never ship the steroids, they arent steroids or there less then vet grade, made in some bathtub in the Philippines and way underdosed filled with bacteria and possibly contaminated with lead and cyanide
he is not a reputable source of information
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I am not a huge fan of AR for many reasons, though he does stay on top of some information in steroid world. Anyway not to defend him but..... everything you posted above is nowhere near any truths. Hell Brian Clapp and him wish each other was dead. (That they run ALL the scam sites made me laugh)
 
Grambo said:
I am not a huge fan of AR for many reasons, though he does stay on top of some information in steroid world. Anyway not to defend him but..... everything you posted above is nowhere near any truths. Hell Brian Clapp and him wish each other was dead. (That they run ALL the scam sites made me laugh)
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so true...


AR can stir up some trouble, but he is a smart guy.
 
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