Unanswered Question about my ALT/AST levels - LGD cycle. Including full blood work.

[gigante35]

If albumin levels are found to be too high, it may indicate a person is eating a high protein diet or is dehydrated. Bro you albumin was out of range too.

 

[gigante35]

Drink at least one galon of water per day.

 

[timberx]

Drink at least one galon of water per day.

Well I was eating a high protein diet, but I did drink plenty of water also. The range was up to 50, I had 50.5, which I dont think is the reason for my problem, I could be wrong. I am cutting down on everything now. Just boiled potatoes,rice and some chicken, small portions 3x a day, probably like 1.5-2k calories. I literally bought today 12x1.5litre bottles to drink all day. I am taking a break from gym also. I am dedicated to get my liver in order asap.

 

[danielvp]

Ok, so I got results in and they are not any better..... I have to guess that I was taking some very toxic crap labled as LGD. Shame that Olympus UK is going down, I found out other topics about them selling crap also on here recently.

At least Gamma-glutamyltransferase(GGT) is within the norm. From what I understand it shows long term damage, which I dont have at the moment.

My results are not in English, forgot to ask this lab. But only 3 results, ASAT=AST, ALAT=ALT and the third one is Gamma-glutamyltransferase.

So the question is now, do I start my PCT with such high results? I read that Clomid and Tamoxifen is not easy on liver either.... should I just stick with my liver support supplements for now and add in some test booster? Not sure what to do, my original plan was to go to a endocrinologist(I talked with him already when I started this damn cycle) when I am close to the end of my cycle and then he prescribes me whatever I need for PCT based on results(proper Clomid/Nolva dosages).... now I think, maybe I should visit a doctor that specializes in liver problems?

Here is what I got for liver support now:

San Liver Support:

and

Revange LiveR Triple Action:

You need to be popping those caps like skittles, shoot for 1 gram TUDCA and 2.4 grams NAC per day in split doses.

 

[Matthersby]

I haven't seen anything in the literature saying SARMS trash your liver.

That’s the problem. There’s a giant discrepancy between initial literature on Sarms and what labs are showing for way too many to be a coincidence.

 

[3clipseGT]

That’s the problem. There’s a giant discrepancy between initial literature on Sarms and what labs are showing for way too many to be a coincidence.

Maybe it’s the lack of purity and not the SARM itself.

 

[timberx]

You need to be popping those caps like skittles, shoot for 1 gram TUDCA and 2.4 grams NAC per day in split doses.

Yea bro, I also made appointment with a endocrinologist and hepatologist, both on Monday. Endo is not the guy that I was planning on seeing for my PCT, he is only available on 7th May.... So I guess 3 days without a PCT. I will do another test on Saturday for AST/ALT, to see if things improved a bit when I did not take *LGD* for 3 days, then I will take those results and see

 

[timberx]

Maybe it’s the lack of purity and not the SARM itself.

This is what I was thinking, the 1st bottle of LGD I had for some time, AST/ALT pretty much stayed the same compared to pre-cycle - maybe it was produced before OL UK changed ownership? 2nd was purchased during the cycle as I kept forgetting it at home heh.

Predator dropped OLUK Superdrol without a notice also around that time... I wonder *what* was the reason?

https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/ol-superdrol.310019/

 

[jim2509]

Another interesting thing is that my ALT/AST skyrocketed after I started using 2nd Olympus LGD bottle(to take when Im at work, etc.). The first bottle that I used for my first ~2 weeks barely moved AST/ALT, it is possible that 2nd bottle is the one that is causing this bullchit and skyrocket my ALT 9x above range in just 2.5 weeks.

I didnt realise you took Olympus Uk Lgd.....after i heard about the superdrol fiasco and literally about to start my Lgd Legend, I pulled the pin and canned it. I didnt realise they had nothing to do with Olympus Labs and are allegedly a PN brand. I wont be touching it with a barge pole and i wouldnt want to pass it onto anyone else after your experience. Now going to use another brand thats well respected and customer service is amazing. I hope you recover soon and I wont be touching any PN products now.

 

[timberx]

I didnt realise you took Olympus Uk Lgd.....after i heard about the superdrol fiasco and literally about to start my Lgd Legend, I pulled the pin and canned it. I didnt realise they had nothing to do with Olympus Labs and are allegedly a PN brand. I wont be touching it with a barge pole and i wouldnt want to pass it onto anyone else after your experience. Now going to use another brand thats well respected and customer service is amazing. I hope you recover soon and I wont be touching any PN products now.

Year bro, OKUK Legend, posted that in my first post! Good idea, I wont touch anything from OLUK again in my life either.

 

[jim2509]

Year bro, OKUK Legend, posted that in my first post! Good idea, I wont touch anything from OLUK again in my life either.

If its any consolation you may have saved a few people a world of pain.

 

[Old Witch]

It's highly likely your second bottle was contaminated. I have heard it time and time again, the SARMS you get, are anything but SARMS.

Most of the reports I have heard from people taking ACTUAL sarms have had nothing but good results .

Most of the reports I’ve heard of people taking actual sarms have had nothing worthwhile for results. They’re weak, toxic, suppressive, and expensive. Totally worthless to spend the money.

 

[Old Witch]

Another interesting thing is that my ALT/AST skyrocketed after I started using 2nd Olympus LGD bottle(to take when Im at work, etc.). The first bottle that I used for my first ~2 weeks barely moved AST/ALT, it is possible that 2nd bottle is the one that is causing this bullchit and skyrocket my ALT 9x above range in just 2.5 weeks.

You’ll find that you might also have levels barely move in two weeks on another oral, then suddenly it rapidly deteriorates after. How the liver handles stress is not linear.

 

[Old Witch]

I haven't seen anything in the literature saying SARMS trash your liver.

LGD and ostarine studies go over that pretty well... they definitely raise ALT. “A minor amount”. At 1mg each.

You’re taking 10-30x that amount to actually use a sarm for anabolic purposes. It’s going to be toxic.

 

[Rad83]

**** literature! Props to @timberx for this real world trial and legit documentation, informative thread!

Olympus Labs should seriously look into this and step forward with wtf goin on,...right!? (I have some Super 1 and Epi of theirs that I’ve been planing on running this summer and, I dunno....)

Speedy recover bro!

 

[JoePaul39]

Most of the reports I’ve heard of people taking actual sarms have had nothing worthwhile for results. They’re weak, toxic, suppressive, and expensive. Totally worthless to spend the money.

I thought you previously posted you believed in combining high dosed Sarms with steroids for maximum benefit?

 

[Old Witch]

I thought you previously posted you believed in combining high dosed Sarms with steroids for maximum benefit?

High dosed, combining, with steroids, all being key words here.

Just “taking sarms” totally sucks. Not worth it. Make it a great big dose, stack a couple, now we’re talking more worthwhile.

 

[JoePaul39]

**** literature! Props to @timberx for this real world trial and legit documentation, informative thread!

Olympus Labs should seriously look into this and step forward with wtf goin on,...right!? (I have some Super 1 and Epi of theirs that I’ve been planing on running this summer and, I dunno....)

Speedy recover bro!

Ya Olympus Labs needs to step in. If they sold their name right of Olympus Labs UK to another company that is now spiking their crap with toxic shi$ using the Olympus name most people won’t know the business was sold and it will give Olympus Labs USA a bad reputation. I buy Olympus USA Tudca and Arimicare Pro and it has always treated me well. Same thing with their andros. Are the andros you have Olympus UK or just Olympus?

 

[JoePaul39]

High dosed, combining, with steroids, all being key words here.

Just “taking sarms” totally sucks. Not worth it. Make it a great big dose, stack a couple, now we’re talking more worthwhile.

I agree with your approach. That is what I do. Have to be “all in”.

 

[Rad83]

Ya Olympus Labs needs to step in. If they sold their name right of Olympus Labs UK to another company that is now spiking their crap with toxic shi$ using the Olympus name most people won’t know the business was sold and it will give Olympus Labs USA a bad reputation. I buy Olympus USA Tudca and Arimicare Pro and it has always treated me well. Same thing with their andros. Are the andros you have Olympus UK or just Olympus?

Agreed! They are Olympus UK

Actually I wrote Olympus Labs a couple weeks ago and asked them an andro question and the guy kop’d an attitude in his reply! I didn’t know they were too diff companies

 

[JoePaul39]

Agreed! They are Olympus UK

Actually I wrote Olympus Labs a couple weeks ago and asked them an andro question and the guy kop’d an attitude in his reply! I didn’t know they were too diff companies

If you purchased the UK like two years ago a I know you will be fine running it or if you purchased it from a USA retailer who had old stuff left in stock. Funny, when news came on the board about the bunk UK Superdrol I emailed them telling them I was thinking of buying some Olympus UK product from overseas (I really wasn’t). I asked them if they still owned Olympus UK and never got a reply lol! Guess the no reply was an answer to my question in a way if you know what I mean.

 

[Rad83]

If you purchased the UK like two years ago a I know you will be fine running it or if you purchased it from a USA retailer who had old stuff left in stock. Funny, when news came on the board about the bunk UK Superdrol I emailed them telling them I was thinking of buying some Olympus UK product from overseas (I really wasn’t). I asked them if they still owned Olympus UK and never got a reply lol! Guess the no reply was an answer to my question in a way if you know what I mean.

Totally know what you’re sayin’ ...Gotta try and get as much info as possible, even if stealthy!

 

[Anabaholic]

I think I remember something about Olympus Labs putting out a 3ad, epi and 19nor andros not too long ago. Anyone know if that's the same deal as the new Olympus UK? Or are they legit?

 

[BlockBuilder]

Do you drink coffee at all? Even decaf coffee has been shown to have great liver detoxifying effects. Also you need TUDCA. Competitive Edge Labs has amazing quality

 

[3clipseGT]

I think I remember something about Olympus Labs putting out a 3ad, epi and 19nor andros not too long ago. Anyone know if that's the same deal as the new Olympus UK? Or are they legit?

That’s a great question. I think they regular OL as I remember a guy named Alex, I think it was, promoting those hitting market and he typically promotes the usual OL stuff.

 

[Jinsun]

People, SARMs are toxic, period. Who said they aren't?? What study showed they have no effect on liver?? As OW said, LGD raised enzymes at 1mg a day! If you are taking 20x that amount you are bound to introduce some serious hepatoxicity.

It's just bro knowledge and hype from people selling them that they aren't toxic. I also had 7x upper range ALT from OL UK ostarine. Quit the cycle as soon as I got the results. In two weeks time my bloods were normal.

OP; there really is no need to either panic or to go to an endo. It's just liver bile, it needs to clear out, which it will! It's normal for any aas use. 1010above range is high, but definitely not uncommon. Just relax. Quit the cycle and in two weeks time your levels will be back to normal. Again, this is standard procedure for any oral cycle.

 

[jim2509]

People, SARMs are toxic, period. Who said they aren't?? What study showed they have no effect on liver?? As OW said, LGD raised enzymes at 1mg a day! If you are taking 20x that amount you are bound to introduce some serious hepatoxicity.

It's just bro knowledge and hype from people selling them that they aren't toxic. I also had 7x upper range ALT from OL UK ostarine. Quit the cycle as soon as I got the results. In two weeks time my bloods were normal.

OP; there really is no need to either panic or to go to an endo. It's just liver bile, it needs to clear out, which it will! It's normal for any aas use. 1010above range is high, but definitely not uncommon. Just relax. Quit the cycle and in two weeks time your levels will be back to normal. Again, this is standard procedure for any oral cycle.

True to an extent but there is still questions over OL UK recent products in my opinion.

 

[jim2509]

People, SARMs are toxic, period. Who said they aren't?? What study showed they have no effect on liver?? As OW said, LGD raised enzymes at 1mg a day! If you are taking 20x that amount you are bound to introduce some serious hepatoxicity.

It's just bro knowledge and hype from people selling them that they aren't toxic. I also had 7x upper range ALT from OL UK ostarine. Quit the cycle as soon as I got the results. In two weeks time my bloods were normal.

OP; there really is no need to either panic or to go to an endo. It's just liver bile, it needs to clear out, which it will! It's normal for any aas use. 1010above range is high, but definitely not uncommon. Just relax. Quit the cycle and in two weeks time your levels will be back to normal. Again, this is standard procedure for any oral cycle.

True to an extent but there is still questions over OL UK recent products in my opinion.

 

[timberx]

It's just bro knowledge and hype from people selling them that they aren't toxic. I also had 7x upper range ALT from OL UK ostarine. Quit the cycle as soon as I got the results. In two weeks time my bloods were normal.

That makes me feel much better, Im taking my liver supps and will do another test on Monday morning before I see my doctors. I know I am probably overreacting, but its better to be "safe" than sorry.

 

[timberx]

**** literature! Props to @timberx for this real world trial and legit documentation, informative thread!

Olympus Labs should seriously look into this and step forward with wtf goin on,...right!? (I have some Super 1 and Epi of theirs that I’ve been planing on running this summer and, I dunno....)

Speedy recover bro!

Thanks @Rad83 !

 

[Jinsun]

That makes me feel much better, Im taking my liver supps and will do another test on Monday morning before I see my doctors. I know I am probably overreacting, but its better to be "safe" than sorry.

Not probably, you are overreacting. All oral aas pretty much elevate your liver enzymes. So by this logic we would all be panicking and going to our doctors. Really, this is normal. You are just going to create problems for yourself by going to the doctor. He is going to want to know why you have this and if you don't admit to using gear, he will start researching whats wrong with you by putting you on all kinds of tests. And if you do admit to using gear you'll have that on your record plus the doc will also freakout and he'll probably want to test you for other signs of damage, etc. Which is pointless, there is nothing wrong with you. Elevated liver enzymes are just an idication of liver stress. Like when you rev your car it produces more emissions. This is what liver bile is, which causes the elevated enzymes numbers.

I know you are new to this and wasnt expecting this so you are a bit freaked out but really all is fine. It's funny, usually I am telling the opposite to people on this forum; to go see a doctor lol

Also not really necessary to take liver supps now that you have quit the cycle. It wont hurt but you are throwing money away imo.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Like when you rev your car it produces more emissions. This is what liver bile is, which causes the elevated enzymes numbers.

Well put! I could literally see smoke coming out of my liver while on S-drol.

 

[BamBam54]

Maybe I could test the theory of LGD toxicity vs this one brand specific concern.

I just finished 12 weeks of LGD (only 5mg) this week and did blood work at the start. I was gonna wait until after PCT to do it again. But if I did bloods now it would show worse possible moment.

My doc is not going to want to do bloods gain after only 12 weeks, and refused the estrogen test. So screw them. I looked up the one mail order place so many use here, but it does not support my state (Maryland). Any ideas for a low key blood test i could do pronto, without crazy costs since I am coming out of pocket?

 

[BamBam54]

Hmmmm, it appears that Maryland really goes out of its way to be a problem with this....
https://www.selftestable.com/maryland-blood-test-ordering

 

[BamBam54]

Hmmmm, it appears that Maryland really goes out of its way to be a problem with this....
https://www.selftestable.com/maryland-blood-test-ordering

 

[3clipseGT]

Not probably, you are overreacting. All oral aas pretty much elevate your liver enzymes. So by this logic we would all be panicking and going to our doctors. Really, this is normal. You are just going to create problems for yourself by going to the doctor. He is going to want to know why you have this and if you don't admit to using gear, he will start researching whats wrong with you by putting you on all kinds of tests. And if you do admit to using gear you'll have that on your record plus the doc will also freakout and he'll probably want to test you for other signs of damage, etc. Which is pointless, there is nothing wrong with you. Elevated liver enzymes are just an idication of liver stress. Like when you rev your car it produces more emissions. This is what liver bile is, which causes the elevated enzymes numbers.

I know you are new to this and wasnt expecting this so you are a bit freaked out but really all is fine. It's funny, usually I am telling the opposite to people on this forum; to go see a doctor lol

Also not really necessary to take liver supps now that you have quit the cycle. It wont hurt but you are throwing money away imo.

While I agree with the majority of your post his liver enzymes are way higher than when most people ran SD and M1T and those had the possibility to cause jaundice among many other things.

In addition to that, although the liver is really good at regenerating and healing itself id still, without a doubt, be taking NAC and TUDCA at minimum to get the liver back in order ASAP.

 

[danielvp]

While I agree with the majority of your post his liver enzymes are way higher than when most people ran SD and M1T and those had the possibility to cause jaundice among many other things.

In addition to that, although the liver is really good at regenerating and healing itself id still, without a doubt, be taking NAC and TUDCA at minimum to get the liver back in order ASAP.

I second this.

 

[Matthersby]

I second this.

Third. While many are huge on running support during cycle, it has merit, especially to counter lethargy and appetite suppression, but with all honesty I always run it post cycle to get the damage under control quicker.
The only thing the liver REALLY needs is the stressor or toxin to be removed. That’s when the real healing happens. And it will only help running what we know will work NAC/MT/Tudca
NAC is literally what they many times use in the ER when someone has ingested something hepatoxic.

 

[timberx]

Not probably, you are overreacting. All oral aas pretty much elevate your liver enzymes. So by this logic we would all be panicking and going to our doctors. Really, this is normal. You are just going to create problems for yourself by going to the doctor. He is going to want to know why you have this and if you don't admit to using gear, he will start researching whats wrong with you by putting you on all kinds of tests. And if you do admit to using gear you'll have that on your record plus the doc will also freakout and he'll probably want to test you for other signs of damage, etc. Which is pointless, there is nothing wrong with you. Elevated liver enzymes are just an idication of liver stress. Like when you rev your car it produces more emissions. This is what liver bile is, which causes the elevated enzymes numbers.

I know you are new to this and wasnt expecting this so you are a bit freaked out but really all is fine. It's funny, usually I am telling the opposite to people on this forum; to go see a doctor lol

Also not really necessary to take liver supps now that you have quit the cycle. It wont hurt but you are throwing money away imo.

I just started reading about your experience here:

https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/crazy-high-alt-ast-from-ostarine.301771/

Very nice recovery. I am aiming for the same, yours was 8x, mine ~9x above the range, so close enough. Seems like in your topic other people also had problems with OLUK :/.

Maybe I could test the theory of LGD toxicity vs this one brand specific concern.

I just finished 12 weeks of LGD (only 5mg) this week and did blood work at the start. I was gonna wait until after PCT to do it again. But if I did bloods now it would show worse possible moment.

My doc is not going to want to do bloods gain after only 12 weeks, and refused the estrogen test. So screw them. I looked up the one mail order place so many use here, but it does not support my state (Maryland). Any ideas for a low key blood test i could do pronto, without crazy costs since I am coming out of pocket?

Sorry bro, I cant help you there, is there a way to just go to a lab and do the blood test? I am not from the US, in my country you can just go to a lab and do blood test, results sent to your email within 3-5 hours usually. Would be nice to see your levels also.

While I agree with the majority of your post his liver enzymes are way higher than when most people ran SD and M1T and those had the possibility to cause jaundice among many other things.

In addition to that, although the liver is really good at regenerating and healing itself id still, without a doubt, be taking NAC and TUDCA at minimum to get the liver back in order ASAP.

Third. While many are huge on running support during cycle, it has merit, especially to counter lethargy and appetite suppression, but with all honesty I always run it post cycle to get the damage under control quicker.
The only thing the liver REALLY needs is the stressor or toxin to be removed. That’s when the real healing happens. And it will only help running what we know will work NAC/MT/Tudca
NAC is literally what they many times use in the ER when someone has ingested something hepatoxic.

Yeah, I really dont want to damage my liver or suffer with jaundice, I better do whatever I can to recover and do a different cycle later this year, armed with Tudca, NAC and so on. Seems like Ar1macare Pro was not enough on-cycle for me with this Legend(LGD).

 

[JoePaul39]

Maybe I could test the theory of LGD toxicity vs this one brand specific concern.

I just finished 12 weeks of LGD (only 5mg) this week and did blood work at the start. I was gonna wait until after PCT to do it again. But if I did bloods now it would show worse possible moment.

My doc is not going to want to do bloods gain after only 12 weeks, and refused the estrogen test. So screw them. I looked up the one mail order place so many use here, but it does not support my state (Maryland). Any ideas for a low key blood test i could do pronto, without crazy costs since I am coming out of pocket?

What he had wasn’t LGD. LGD is not miver toxic per safety studies and steroid guru William Llewellyn’s book “Anabolics”. I have run LGD and had no such problems.

 

[danielvp]

What he had wasn’t LGD. LGD is not miver toxic per safety studies and steroid guru William Llewellyn’s book “Anabolics”. I have run LGD and had no such problems.
View attachment 182232

I might have to get that book! I'm curious what it says about Ostarine, as I was under the impression that was the sarm with the most toxicity (other than s23).

 

[JoePaul39]

Continued page 483 (this is same page, but cannot get pic to upload) “Early data on this drug suggests Ligandrol has a relatively favorable safety profile. For one, THERE WAS NO CHANGE IN LIVER ENZYME VALUES. IN DOSES THAT BUILD MUSCLE, HEPATOXICITY DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE A PROBLEM, AS IT CAN BE WITH OTHER SARMS. There were also no clinically significant changes in Hematocrit or EKG values. The effect of Ligandrol also appears highly selective for anabolism, with minimal androgenic activity at the sebaceous glands and prostate.”

The things to worry about with LGD are lipids and test shutdown, not liver values. The OP’s compound must have been spiked.

 

[JoePaul39]

I might have to get that book! I'm curious what it says about Ostarine, as I was under the impression that was the sarm with the most toxicity (other than s23).

It is an awesome book. Most comprehensive available. Nearly 700 pages on steroid, Sarms, peptides, growth hormones, and anti-estrogens. Nearly every compound is profiled with dosage and cycle guidelines, safety profile, sides, and risks, etc.. It is fairly current to (2017 for 11th edition).

 

[JoePaul39]

 

[timberx]

View attachment 182233

Thanks for taking the time and posting this information.

 

[JoePaul39]

Thanks for taking the time and posting this information.

No problem. Just trying to stop the speculation and false claims regarding that being a side of this particular compound.

 

[Matthersby]

No problem. Just trying to stop the speculation and false claims regarding that being a side of this particular compound.

Thank you.

I can’t wait until these things fade away.
And as I said before, I physically have Osta, so I was curious and bought into the hype, and I do plan to run S4 during my next cut, so I’m not hating on anyone trying them out or buying into the hype.
But overall, I just want LGD to be substituted for Dbol. Winnie or Anavar for Osta.
same suppression, same unfavorable lipids change, less hepatoxicity, and above all way WAY better results.

 

[gigante35]

Good question now is what can we espect to get in another products under olympus uk? I have had bought 2 bottles super 3ad by olympus labs for this summer, but this blood work makes me wonder will i use this expensive sh.., paid it 60 pound per bottle. Your ast and alt level will go up a little bit because of inflammation 7 days after last caplet, so need at least 3 weeks to touched again upper allow limit.

 

[Smont]

Any chance this isn’t a sarm or is op just unlucky

99% chance it isn't a sarm

 

[Smont]

I saw once a guy getting yellow like a banana on 18mg/d LGD, 2 weeks into the cycle. Not unheard of and I always warned people about it.

That's cuz it wasn't lgd and neither is what op is taking