pwo carbs

Agreed. They make quite difference for myself as well. Will everyone experience the same benefits? No. What's noticed, if anything, can depend on the individual, their overall nutrition, and training.

The "what works for you" method is the best. Low carb,high carb,keto (moderate protein, no carb ,high fat aka real keto ) flexible or bro eating+macro counting (like myself)

W/e you want.

We on these forums have a responsibility however to steer away from the extreme.

Nobody should ever eat baby food or a cotton ball unless they like it. There's a better way lol.
 
Valid point but you make assumptions.

Which you do as well.

This entire concept of "peri" workout is splitting the smallest of hairs to those who have spent anytime researching this.
 
For god's sake, do you just argue for the sake of arguing Bob?

If I'm not mistaken, Jiigzz was the first to argue Bob's point.
 
Agreed. They make quite a difference for myself as well. Will everyone experience the same benefits? No. What's noticed, if anything, can depend on the individual, their overall nutrition, and training.

It works well for me as my job doesnt allow me the flexibility to eat enough in advance before I train. I eat at 11 and workout and 2-230 and then face traffic heading home, so its a good 6 hours before I can get in a decent meal.

Getting in those carbs are a lifesaver as my recovery was suffering like crazy. I drink chocolate milk pre and that worked well for a bit, but I notice almost no soreness now since I introduced specialised carbs intra and post.

With these kinds of things stating an absolute (and in nutrition in general) is problematic as it only takes one study to completely disprove a point.

Will the majority of people benefit from peri workout carbs? Nope, but thats not to say for some under certain conditions it does. Life factors prevent everyone eating every 2.76764737 hours and sometimes we make compromises.

We all still grow and make progress. Ive come to realise that if someone wants to slam back a protein shake immediately post workout that the world will continue to spin - in my mind that is ok so long as that behaviour isnt obsessive or destructive (flexible dieting has its advantages for those who do not like rigidity but a very poor choice for those with a poor relationship with food and their bodies to where eating a pizza, even if IITM, makes them hate themselves).

I didnt mean to sound argumentative (my posting style gets that way but im really not trying to be) but if I see a study posted that doesnt reflect the conclusion that is drawn, then I tend to speak out :D

Either way, OP, try with or without and see if it makes a difference.
 
Explain to me how it's not?

Recovery is generally referenced more with performance (glycogen resynthesis).

Repair is generally referencing protein synthesis.

The difference is hours vs. days and they are not the same. People think one correlates to the other. They don't.
 
Recovery is generally referenced more with performance (glycogen resynthesis). Repair is generally referencing protein synthesis. The difference is hours vs. days and they are not the same. People think one correlates to the other. They don't.

Recovery and repair go hand in hand.

Yes I know repair deals with protein synthesis but in a recovering period or time, you're "repairing" as well.

So yes I should have stated they're not the exact same thing but work together.
 
Recovery and repair go hand in hand.

Yes I know repair deals with protein synthesis but in a recovering period or time, you're "repairing" as well.

So yes I should have stated they're not the exact same thing but work together.

Not sure what you mean "go hand in hand". One doesn't really have that much of an effect on another, unless in extreme situations like forced depletion....and weight lighting doesn't even come to close to that. Protein synthesis rates are their greatest 24 hours after exercise....regardless.

The point being that if you are going to argue the nutritional requirements between the two then they must be separated because their requirements are different.
 
Not sure what you mean "go hand in hand". One doesn't really have that much of an effect on another, unless in extreme situations like forced depletion....and weight lighting doesn't even come to close to that. Protein synthesis rates are their greatest 24 hours after exercise....regardless. The point being that if you are going to argue the nutritional requirements between the two then they must be separated because their requirements are different.

I'm aware protein synthesis is at its greatest post workout.

All I was simply stating was if one has improved recovery, the repairing process will be great as well. So, having a shake or meal pre and/or post workout, leads to better recovery, leads to greater repairing.

I think we agree on the two terms just have different ways of thinking about it.
 
All I was simply stating was if one has improved recovery, the repairing process will be great as well. .

And what I'm stating is one really doesn't have much effect on the other unless you are talking extremes. The OP asked for carb sources that will help with repair and muscle gains....my answer would be it doesn't matter because carb source has very little to do with protein synthesis rates.
 
And what I'm stating is one really doesn't have much effect on the other unless you are talking extremes. The OP asked for carb sources that will help with repair and muscle gains....my answer would be it doesn't matter because carb source has very little to do with protein synthesis rates.

Okay, I get what you're saying now. I totally agree with that.

My bad on the confusion.
 
Im still confused.. do I need my fruity pebbles pwo or not
:-/
 
Not sure what you mean "go hand in hand". One doesn't really have that much of an effect on another, unless in extreme situations like forced depletion....and weight lighting doesn't even come to close to that. Protein synthesis rates are their greatest 24 hours after exercise....regardless.

The point being that if you are going to argue the nutritional requirements between the two then they must be separated because their requirements are different.

It is semantics as it can be interpreted either way, I took repair as recovery as well.
 
It is semantics as it can be interpreted either way, I took repair as recovery as well.

Ivy would have you strung up if you told him that. :lol:
 
Ivy would have you strung up if you told him that. :lol:

Well the argument over the interpretation is semantics, not the argument itself ;)
 
Looks like I missed all the fun :(
 
Hey OP,

2% Milk and Captain Crunch... because you're HUNGRY :)

(Anyone remember "Chocolate Milk vs 'Surge' "? LOL)

All that "replenishment" stuff will happen anyway, with dinner, snacks, breakfast the next day, etc...
 
Reese puffs
Chocolate lucky charms
SmoreZ
French toast crunch
Oreo O's

Come at me
I have had none of them but this list did make me realize I forgot one.

Peanut butter captain crunch!
 
I have had none of them but this list did make me realize I forgot one. Peanut butter captain crunch!

Sprinkled Donut Crunch might be the best cereal ever.
 
If I use certain PWO carb sources 3 days a week, is that a Sunday to Saturday week or a Sunday to Sunday week?
 
If I use certain PWO carb sources 3 days a week, is that a Sunday to Saturday week or a Sunday to Sunday week?

BRB...discussing science without getting technical or accurate.
 
Actually its not. They are two separate things.

My point is that a lot of people use the terms interchangeably. That's why I said it was semantical. :)

I may be wrong (and if so I will admit that I am wrong), but I don't think the OP was getting that technical.
 
My point is that a lot of people use the terms interchangeably. That's why I said it was semantical. :)

I may be wrong (and if so I will admit that I am wrong), but I don't think the OP was getting that technical.


A lot of people took Celltech with 75g of dextrose post workout....do we not correct them?

The OP was asking about muscle repair and gains and what carb was best...well the answer is it doesn't really matter because carb source on muscle gains is almost irrelevant. Are we not here to give the best advice and be accurate? And when someone actually pointed out that difference he was mocked.

If people use the terms interchangeably and its not correct, are we not here to correct them?
 
The issue here is the definition we are choosing to use. But definitions aside, glycogen resynthesis and protein synthesis do not really effect each other.

Now going by the way jiggz is defining recovery, a subjective measurement of how one feels after a workout, than it is possible CHO timing around workouts may help (although it would be awfully hard to account for placebo effect without looking at some objective measurement.

After reading through this thread it seems the disagreement is over wording but ultimately I think everyone is in agreement WRT, carb source really isn't going to make a huge difference. If you want to drink some dextrose &whey post workout then by all means, go for it. If you want potatoes and chicken, then have at it.

Our understanding WRT nutrient timing is actually pretty limited. There is a lot of which we simply don't know because of a lack of data in literature. So instead we rely heavily on anecdotal data. So if YOU feel better after a workout if you have X then keep on having X. Worry about splitting hairs when progress stops or if you an elite athlete.
 
The issue here is the definition we are choosing to use. But definitions aside, glycogen resynthesis and protein synthesis do not really effect each other.

Now going by the way jiggz is defining recovery, a subjective measurement of how one feels after a workout, than it is possible CHO timing around workouts may help (although it would be awfully hard to account for placebo effect without looking at some objective measurement.

After reading through this thread it seems the disagreement is over wording but ultimately I think everyone is in agreement WRT, carb source really isn't going to make a huge difference. If you want to drink some dextrose &whey post workout then by all means, go for it. If you want potatoes and chicken, then have at it.

Our understanding WRT nutrient timing is actually pretty limited. There is a lot of which we simply don't know because of a lack of data in literature. So instead we rely heavily on anecdotal data. So if YOU feel better after a workout if you have X then keep on having X. Worry about splitting hairs when progress stops or if you an elite athlete.

Nailed it
 
I have had none of them but this list did make me realize I forgot one.

Peanut butter captain crunch!

French Toast Crunch is the GOAT cereal. In regards to Captain Crunch and its variations, Captain Crunch with Berries is the best variation. Not the Oops All Berries, the one with the berries and original Captain Crunch.
 
The issue here is the definition we are choosing to use. But definitions aside, glycogen resynthesis and protein synthesis do not really effect each other.

Now going by the way jiggz is defining recovery, a subjective measurement of how one feels after a workout, than it is possible CHO timing around workouts may help (although it would be awfully hard to account for placebo effect without looking at some objective measurement.

After reading through this thread it seems the disagreement is over wording but ultimately I think everyone is in agreement WRT, carb source really isn't going to make a huge difference. If you want to drink some dextrose &whey post workout then by all means, go for it. If you want potatoes and chicken, then have at it.

Our understanding WRT nutrient timing is actually pretty limited. There is a lot of which we simply don't know because of a lack of data in literature. So instead we rely heavily on anecdotal data. So if YOU feel better after a workout if you have X then keep on having X. Worry about splitting hairs when progress stops or if you an elite athlete.

There is a disagreement because the terms are not being used correctly along with the recommendations. When someone tries to clarify the point, they get mocked...and I'm sick of that happening.

You can't criticize someone for their references....then argue the fact the terms are interchangeable. Telling me recovery and repair are the same and used interchangeably while questioning some other persons scientific interpretation, isn't exactly credible.

Its like saying Gatorade is great for muscle repair....well I mean recovery. Sorry, its not the same. If we are going to be accurate, then lets be accurate...and don't criticize those who are trying to be...or tell me its semantics.
 
There is a disagreement because the terms are not being used correctly along with the recommendations. When someone tries to clarify the point, they get mocked...and I'm sick of that happening.

You can't criticize someone for their references....then argue the fact the terms are interchangeable. Telling me recovery and repair are the same and used interchangeably while questioning some other persons scientific interpretation, isn't exactly credible.

Its like saying Gatorade is great for muscle repair....well I mean recovery. Sorry, its not the same. If we are going to be accurate, then lets be accurate...and don't criticize those who are trying to be...or tell me its semantics.

Well in that case, you are also incorrect. In literature recovery refers to the time after a stimulus. It is not limited to glycogen resynthesis nor is it synomous with it. Unless of course you have literature where a researcher is saying recovery and meaning glycogen resynthesis. Most papers that investigate glycogen resynthesis do so during recovery. So if we define recovery by how it is used in scientific literature on exercise, MPS would also fall under recovery since it too is a process that increases and is investigated in this "recovery" window.

I do however agree we shouldn't use them interchangeably, but in common discourse definitions of words become much broader, so can understand how one might read recovery and think repair.
 
Well in that case, you are also incorrect. In literature recovery refers to the time after a stimulus. It is not limited to glycogen resynthesis nor is it synomous with it. Unless of course you have literature where a researcher is saying recovery and meaning glycogen resynthesis. Most papers that investigate glycogen resynthesis do so during recovery. So if we define recovery by how it is used in scientific literature on exercise, MPS would also fall under recovery so it too is a process that increases and is investigated in this "recovery" window.

I've studied this for over 10 years and have corresponded with those most prominent in the field as well as been involved in their research. Recovery is almost always referenced as glycogen resynthesis in this field.

I do agree we shouldn't use them interchangeably but in common discourse, definitions of words become much broader so can understand how one might read recovery and this repair

The OP wanted clarity....its best to give him that.
 
You are also missing my point - recovery - not MPS, protein synthesis or other.


And it wasn't I that first separated it here.
 
You can't criticize someone for their references....then argue the fact the terms are interchangeable.


Why can't someone's references be criticized if they were conducted in an entirely different population than the one that you (not you specifically, or anyone for that matter) are trying to spread the study's conclusions into?

Jiggz's original argument had nothing to do with the terms recovery or repair IIRC.
 
Why can't someone's references be criticized if they were conducted in an entirely different population than the one that you (not you specifically, or anyone for that matter) are trying to spread the study's conclusions into?

Jiggz's original argument had nothing to do with the terms recovery or repair IIRC.

Not following...how can the argument have nothing to do with recovery OR repair?
 
Not following...how can the argument have nothing to do with recovery OR repair?

Okay, i stand corrected. All i remembered of his original argument was the quote below. He did later go into carb sources effecting his individual recovery.

You posted studies relating to diabetics and obese people not relaing to performance lol E.g. Invalid Link Removed This paper is not about post workout carbs - its about glucose control for diabetics. Also a lot of that writing was also about glucose and Creatine as well as AA intake which isn't even mentioned in the OP.
 
Okay, i stand corrected. All i remembered of his original argument was the quote below. He did later go into carb sources effecting his individual recovery.

Which is fine by me because there are much better studies showing the effects of nutrient composition and timing....

What I don't like is a person being mocked and criticized for trying to support their argument with scientific accuracy....and when its done back, its just semantics. If we want to be accurate, then lets do it so that everyone gets a clearer picture of whats going on...because it seems many think replenishing glycogen quickly has some magical effect on protein synthesis rates (muscle repair and gains). It does not.

The OP wanted the best carb source for muscle repair and lean gains....and instead of spending his money on a bottle of sugar we should point him to an effective amino/bcaa/protein product that will have a much better effect....because he seems to think carb source is actually important.
 
A lot of people took Celltech with 75g of dextrose post workout....do we not correct them? The OP was asking about muscle repair and gains and what carb was best...well the answer is it doesn't really matter because carb source on muscle gains is almost irrelevant. Are we not here to give the best advice and be accurate? And when someone actually pointed out that difference he was mocked. If people use the terms interchangeably and its not correct, are we not here to correct them?
this is true

If he wanted to know the best carb source for quick replenishment or less bloating there would be a different option

Technically all lactic acid cycles through and can become glycogen so is it really needed immediatly? No it'll replenish over time

The training frequency in that day is what determines carb sources IMO but in the end it it doesn't matter what source of you train once a day
 
There is a disagreement because the terms are not being used correctly along with the recommendations. When someone tries to clarify the point, they get mocked...and I'm sick of that happening.

You can't criticize someone for their references....then argue the fact the terms are interchangeable. Telling me recovery and repair are the same and used interchangeably while questioning some other persons scientific interpretation, isn't exactly credible.

Its like saying Gatorade is great for muscle repair....well I mean recovery. Sorry, its not the same. If we are going to be accurate, then lets be accurate...and don't criticize those who are trying to be...or tell me its semantics.

The references had zero to do with the point being made. You should not cite evidence not pertaining to that point as it is not credible. Saying that using sugar over a complex carbohydrate is not warranted after performance then citing 2 studies which have nothing to do with that argument is a fallacy. Calling someone out on it isnt in bad taste, but it did leave me scratchig my head.

Most people do not check references; I always do. if it came across as mocking that wasnt the intention, just the interpretation.

Also the argument isnt semantics; again thats not what I was refering to. We had our terminology confused and so the point was moot. Semantics was just a poor choice of words.

Recovery is different to muscle growth as you can have recovery without growth. I took repair as recovery as the OP already specified growth. Simple mistake. He hasnt clarified so the argument continues.

I call recovery, as JJ stated, as the period after exercise. Repair occurs during recovery.
 
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