PUTTING TOGETHER YOUR OWN INSULIN MIMIKER

corsaking

Well-known member
Hi

can you list 3 ingredients which would be effective in recomping .the supps available seem to vary in what they have on offer.(thinking of doing my own)

thanks
 
Just remember with most of these they are NOT selective for muscle tissue. I believe Anabolic Pump is the only one that is selective for muscle tissue and antagonizes fat tissue
 
crazyfool405 said:
the Antagonism of fat tissue can happen from PPARy antagonist like, Berberine, Fuciodan, Fucoxanthin, fucoxanthol, Bitter melon , as well as a few others but via a different mechanism like Hydroxy Citric acid (ACL inhibition).

this downregulates adipogenesis while allowing uptake into muscle cells.

Recompadrol does it, Glycobol does it, slin sane does, it, Slin does it, slin shot? not sure havent seen research showing its effects on PPARa/y.
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I can use Recompadrol with R-Ala?
 
crazyfool405 said:
mod edit: take a week off. you have been numerous times about supporting your own products.
Click to expand...

He meant selective glucose disposal. In terms of fat antagonism, as you put it, there are many compounds that appear to modulate PPAR-gamma on paper, but the extent to which they are actually able to exert that effect in vivo and in vitro differs significantly.
 
strategicmove said:
He meant selective glucose disposal. In terms of fat antagonism, as you put it, there are many compounds that appear to modulate PPAR-gamma on paper, but the extent to which they are actually able to exert that effect in vivo and in vitro differs significantly.
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Correct. I was referring to glucose disposal. I have not seen any other ingredient other than those in Anabolic Pump that antagonizes glucose disposal in fat tissue, which, is obviously a very important step IMO. I would only like to increase glycogen storage in my muscle tissue
 
Hmm interesting! AP was always and prolly will always be my favorite after reading that! What is the ingredient in it that makes it so selective to muscle?
 
So I have also been very intimidated by making a mistake with slin and have started a quest to see if there was an alternative or mimickers I was able to come up with the following with some deep research.

1.) Alpha Lipoic Acid = sensitizer 2g -This one is cheap-
2.) R-Alpha Lipoic Acid = sensitizer 1g -This one is cheap-
3.) Vanadyl Sulfate = Mimicker" 5mg to 10mg (this one can be toxic in high quantity!) -this one is cheap-
4.) Guanidinopropionic Acid = "secretagogue" 50mg -this one is crazy not cheap-
5.) 3-0-Methyl-d-chiro-inositol (d-Pinitol) = "Mimicker" 600mg -this one is price-

OPTIONAL ADD INs:
Cinnamon caps = sensitizer
Chromium pills = sensitizer

Also good old cardio one hour and HIIT 15 to 30mins will quickly burn off any free glycogen and create a deficit and peaking sensitivity.

Read up on all of the above and create your own protocol you now have your slin alternatives
 
Pharcom said:
So I have also been very intimidated by making a mistake with slin and have started a quest to see if there was an alternative or mimickers I was able to come up with the following with some deep research.

1.) Alpha Lipoic Acid = sensitizer 2g -This one is cheap-
2.) R-Alpha Lipoic Acid = sensitizer 1g -This one is cheap-
3.) Vanadyl Sulfate = Mimicker" 5mg to 10mg (this one can be toxic in high quantity!) -this one is cheap-
4.) Guanidinopropionic Acid = "secretagogue" 50mg -this one is crazy not cheap-
5.) 3-0-Methyl-d-chiro-inositol (d-Pinitol) = "Mimicker" 600mg -this one is price-

OPTIONAL ADD INs:
Cinnamon caps = sensitizer
Chromium pills = sensitizer

Also good old cardio one hour and HIIT 15 to 30mins will quickly burn off any free glycogen and create a deficit and peaking sensitivity.

Read up on all of the above and create your own protocol you now have your slin alternatives
Click to expand...

can i just get this right -are you saying that any of the above will be selective at putting nutrients inc carbs into muscle cells rather than fat cells ?tks
 
Honestly, its funny as hell what i do to everyone. I go to my local pharmacy and buy some glucose tablets in the diabetic section. Best insulin response!
 
Johnnayyyy said:
Honestly, its funny as hell what i do to everyone. I go to my local pharmacy and buy some glucose tablets in the diabetic section. Best insulin response!
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maybe so but the point is , finding something thats selective and onl;y results in uptake of nutrients into muscle cedlls
 
I would create a protocol “i.e. combination” of the (5) and very intensive workout to reach your goal. If you chose this method you will need a sugar meter and some kito sticks. You cant really measure your slin levels but you can be educated in your approach using the above said tool. Understand slin and the compounds I posted do not select what cells to antagonize. You should read up on the metabolic order of slin. This will help you understand why all diabetic slin users are not jacked to the max.
For slin to be anabolic in the nature that you are looking for you have to create a bodily environment rich in nutrients and HGH for slin to become anabolic.

Most of all be careful! I think a good place to start would be to think like a diabetic and a bodybuilder.

Best of luck
 
criticalbench said:
Hmm interesting! AP was always and prolly will always be my favorite after reading that! What is the ingredient in it that makes it so selective to muscle?
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Phellodendron
 
I use 500 mg Yellow Gold, 1 g ALCAR, and 500 mg Agmatine twice a day prior to carb containing meals. Buy bulk and cap it. AP as mentioned was good to me too.
 
Reply

AlphaNOmega said:
Phellodendron
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So here is the nutritional info on AP "Anabolic Pump"

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: suppdata, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: suppdata, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH] [/TH]
[TH="class: clm, align: center"]Amount Per Serving[/TH]
[TH="class: clm, align: center"]% Daily Value[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AnabolicPump: (proprietary blend):
P-Insulin (Engineered Extract from Phellodendron
Tannins Complex (Engineered Extract from Lagerstroemia Speciosa)



[/TD]
[TD="class: right, align: right"]700 mg

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So the meat of the sup is the "Lagerstroemia Speciosa" it is glucophage it is an insulin uptake-stimulatory. if any sup states that it targets a specific tissue concerning insulin I would think twice before buying.

O I have some Phellodendron growing in my back yard so if you need any???? ;-)
 
Pharcom said:
So here is the nutritional info on AP "Anabolic Pump"

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: suppdata, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: suppdata, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH][/TH]
[TH="class: clm, align: center"]Amount Per Serving[/TH]
[TH="class: clm, align: center"]% Daily Value[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]AnabolicPump: (proprietary blend):
P-Insulin (Engineered Extract from Phellodendron
Tannins Complex (Engineered Extract from Lagerstroemia Speciosa)


[/TD]
[TD="class: right, align: right"]700 mg
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So the meat of the sup is the "Lagerstroemia Speciosa" it is glucophage it is an insulin uptake-stimulatory. if any sup states that it targets a specific tissue concerning insulin I would think twice before buying.

O I have some Phellodendron growing in my back yard so if you need any???? ;-)
Click to expand...

Berberine Moderates Glucose and Lipid Metabolism through Multipathway Mechanism
Qian Zhang, Xinhua Xiao, Kai Feng, TongWang,Wenhui Li, Tao Yuan, Xiaofang Sun,Qi Sun,
Hongding Xiang, and HengWang
Department of Endocrinology, Peking Union Medical College Hospital, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Beijing 100730, China

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Berberine (found in phellodendron) upregulates GLUT4 and downregulates PPAR gamma, wouldn't that make it tissue specific to muscle tissue?

Can anyone else enlighten me on subject? Just want to get my facts straight!
 
[SUP]This maybe of help?

Berberine[/SUP]
[SUP]"Berberine is a plant alkaloid found in Hydrastis canadensis (goldenseal),[/SUP]
[SUP]Coptis chinensis (Coptis or goldenthread), Berberis aquifolium[/SUP]
[SUP](Oregon grape), Berberis vulgaris (barberry), and Berberis[/SUP]
[SUP]aristata (tree turmeric). It has a long history of medicinal use in[/SUP]
[SUP]both Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine.1[/SUP]
[SUP]Berberine has a wide range of effects that include antimicrobial[/SUP]
[SUP](against bacterial diarrhea, intestinal parasites, fungal[/SUP]
[SUP]infections, Candida albicans, yeast, and possibly methicillinresistant[/SUP]
[SUP]Staphylococcus aureus); anti-inflammatory; and[/SUP]
[SUP]cardiovascular.2,3"[/SUP]

[SUP]Berberine, a constituent of the Phellodendron extract. Please note the first statement they are selling (Goldenseal.) I would not market my product as Goldenseal. I am sure if I did the folks here would have a good laugh. Berberine is a common plant extract it can also be found in Bougainvillea now if I marketed my product as an extract of Bouganvillea no one would touch it either because Bouganvillea is highly toxic to humans. So Phellodendron extract is exotic enough to draw attention.[/SUP]

[SUP]Below is a snippet from the abstract study on Berberine from the ADA Journal for Diabetes. Looks like Berberine “may” uses the same pathway(s) as insulin and has an effect on both adipose (FAT) tissue and muscle tissue. So no berberine is not tissue specific.[/SUP]

[SUP]Abstract[/SUP]
[SUP]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SUP]
[SUP]"Berberine has been shown to have antidiabetic properties, although its mode of action is not known. Here, we have investigated the metabolic effects of berberine in two animal models of insulin resistance and in insulin-responsive cell lines. Berberine reduced body weight and caused a significant improvement in glucose tolerance without altering food intake in db/db mice. Similarly, berberine reduced body weight and plasma triglycerides and improved insulin action in high-fat–fed Wistar rats. Berberine downregulated the expression of genes involved in lipogenesis and upregulated those involved in energy expenditure in adipose tissue and muscle." [/SUP]

[SUP]Thanks for pushing me to research though. I had no idea that Goldenseal was an insulin sensitizer.[/SUP]
 
Quick fix

Statement correction:

"Below is a snippet from the abstract study on Berberine from the ADA Journal for Diabetes. Looks like Berberine “may” uses the same pathway(s) as insulin and has an effect on both adipose (FAT) tissue and muscle tissue. So no berberine is not tissue specific to muscle."
 
Suppression of PPAR-gamma attenuates insulin-stimulated glucose uptake by affecting both GLUT1 and GLUT4 in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. AuthorsLiao W, et al. Show all Journal Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul;293(1):E219-27. Epub 2007 Mar 27.Affiliation Department of Medicine, Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, University of California, San Diego, La Jolla, CA 92093, USA.

Abstract
Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-gamma (PPAR-gamma) plays a critical role in regulating insulin sensitivity and glucose homeostasis. In this study, we identified highly efficient small interfering RNA (siRNA) sequences and used lentiviral short hairpin RNA and electroporation of siRNAs to deplete PPAR-gamma from 3T3-L1 adipocytes to elucidate its role in adipogenesis and insulin signaling. We show that PPAR-gamma knockdown prevented adipocyte differentiation but was not required for maintenance of the adipocyte differentiation state after the cells had undergone adipogenesis. We further demonstrate that PPAR-gamma suppression reduced insulin-stimulated glucose uptake without affecting the early insulin signaling steps in the adipocytes. Using dual siRNA strategies, we show that this effect of PPAR-gamma deletion was mediated by both GLUT4 and GLUT1. Interestingly, PPAR-gamma-depleted cells displayed enhanced inflammatory responses to TNF-alpha stimulation, consistent with a chronic anti-inflammatory effect of endogenous PPAR-gamma. In summary, 1) PPAR-gamma is essential for the process of adipocyte differentiation but is less necessary for maintenance of the differentiated state, 2) PPAR-gamma supports normal insulin-stimulated glucose transport, and 3) endogenous PPAR-gamma may play a role in suppression of the inflammatory pathway in 3T3-L1 cells.

As this states, "We further demonstrate that PPAR-gamma suppression reduced insulin-stimulated glucose uptake." In the previous study I posted, Berberine downregulated PPAR-gamma 5.51-fold.

If GLUT4 is upregulated simultaneously as PPAR-gamma is downregulated, how would it not be tissue specific? Adipose tissue would be limited in the ability to uptake glucose, whereas muscle tissue could still uptake glucose via upregulation of GLUT4.
 
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