Protein requirements Bodybuilding with kidney stones

[Wobmarvel]

Hi, I had a kidney stone a couple of years ago which, after much pain, discomfort, peeing blood etc. Eventually passed. It seems as though I may have one again as I'm starting to get symptoms. The ones I get are uric acid stones and the first rule is to reduce protein to less than 80g per day. I took this warning with a pinch of salt (also bad for kidney stones) last time and after I passed the stone just went back to about 200g protein a day.

I am hoping to flush this one through and want to follow doctor's orders a bit closer this time.

What are your guys opinions on muscle building on low protein diets. Can I replace some of the protein I used to eat with good quality carbs and still maintain or build muscle?

 

[Smont]

Hi, I had a kidney stone a couple of years ago which, after much pain, discomfort, peeing blood etc. Eventually passed. It seems as though I may have one again as I'm starting to get symptoms. The ones I get are uric acid stones and the first rule is to reduce protein to less than 80g per day. I took this warning with a pinch of salt (also bad for kidney stones) last time and after I passed the stone just went back to about 200g protein a day.

I am hoping to flush this one through and want to follow doctor's orders a bit closer this time.

What are your guys opinions on muscle building on low protein diets. Can I replace some of the protein I used to eat with good quality carbs and still maintain or build muscle?

Carbs are muscle sparing, the more carbs you eat the less protein you need. But most carb sources have protein in them too so if yiur eating a ton of carbs your still taking in protein. I don't believe any adult man is going to be able to build muscle eating 100gm of protein or less per day tho. I'd shoot for lean body mass in grams.

If you're 200 pounds at 20% body fat then that would mean you have 160 lbs of lbm, so I'd shoot for 160gm protein, that's only 640 calories so your gonna need a lot of carbs to fill up your calorie needs for the day. The less protein you eat the more carbs you need. You could also possibly lower protein more and add In EAAS and Bcaas to pick up some of the slack.

It's really a tough question to guess at, you kinda need to do some trial and error.

Maybe for a couple of weeks eat about a 125 g of protein A-day and see what your results are like and if you're not seeing what you want increase that number. Or vice versa you could start higher and if you're having negative sides/ problems decrease the number of protein

 

[Wobmarvel]

Carbs are muscle sparing, the more carbs you eat the less protein you need. But most carb sources have protein in them too so if yiur eating a ton of carbs your still taking in protein. I don't believe any adult man is going to be able to build muscle eating 100gm of protein or less per day tho. I'd shoot for lean body mass in grams.

If you're 200 pounds at 20% body fat then that would mean you have 160 lbs of lbm, so I'd shoot for 160gm protein, that's only 640 calories so your gonna need a lot of carbs to fill up your calorie needs for the day. The less protein you eat the more carbs you need. You could also possibly lower protein more and add In EAAS and Bcaas to pick up some of the slack.

It's really a tough question to guess at, you kinda need to do some trial and error.

Maybe for a couple of weeks eat about a 125 g of protein A-day and see what your results are like and if you're not seeing what you want increase that number. Or vice versa you could start higher and if you're having negative sides/ problems decrease the number of protein

Thanks for the response. I've cut back currently to just over 100g just by literally halving the protein I was eating and I'm trying to compensate by adding in potatoes and rice to the same calorie level if that makes sense. I think drinking your protein or using aminos bcaas etc. Is worse as liquid is almost directly processed by the kidneys and there's less breakdown by the stomach involved. I think if i was to try and get away with more protein it needs to be lean cuts of White meat. But like you say trial and error. Also need to do some fat manipulation as cutting out eggs and chicken thighs and replacing with carbs also loses some fats that need to come from elsewhere. Peanuts and nut butters are also a no go. Man this kidney stone lark is no joke.

 

[Smont]

Thanks for the response. I've cut back currently to just over 100g just by literally halving the protein I was eating and I'm trying to compensate by adding in potatoes and rice to the same calorie level if that makes sense. I think drinking your protein or using aminos bcaas etc. Is worse as liquid is almost directly processed by the kidneys and there's less breakdown by the stomach involved. I think if i was to try and get away with more protein it needs to be lean cuts of White meat. But like you say trial and error. Also need to do some fat manipulation as cutting out eggs and chicken thighs and replacing with carbs also loses some fats that need to come from elsewhere. Peanuts and nut butters are also a no go. Man this kidney stone lark is no joke.

I didn't say anything about drinking protein, I said lower protein and replace it with aminos. George Ferrah was a pro bodybuilder with kidney problems. He use to lower his protein and use amino instead. Your body doesn't have to break down amino like it does to turn protein into amino acids. There immediately ready for use, they go straight into the bloodstream as far as I'm aware

 

[Smont]

Also Many amino acids are good for kidney health

 

[Resolve10]

Hi, I had a kidney stone a couple of years ago which, after much pain, discomfort, peeing blood etc. Eventually passed. It seems as though I may have one again as I'm starting to get symptoms. The ones I get are uric acid stones and the first rule is to reduce protein to less than 80g per day. I took this warning with a pinch of salt (also bad for kidney stones) last time and after I passed the stone just went back to about 200g protein a day.

I am hoping to flush this one through and want to follow doctor's orders a bit closer this time.

What are your guys opinions on muscle building on low protein diets. Can I replace some of the protein I used to eat with good quality carbs and still maintain or build muscle?

I can probably go more in depth if it is something that you are really interested in, but if it is just for peace of mind then you should feel free to feel ok even with a lower protein intake.

Expanding on that I think it is important to remember that it isn't like there is a specific hard "cut off" for protein intake as far as gains go and that some research has been done showing positive benefits at levels of intake well below what you'd generally hear recommended on the forums (1.5g/kg in this study for example).

While I am not going to sit here and say keeping it as low as 100g per day would be "optimal", you can still make gains. They will likely be slower than if you had a little bit higher intake, but again think of it as like a lowering of benefits not a stop of benefits as you go down more and more.