Prohormones, Teens and Permenant Low Test

[fisher300]

Hey I have a quick question to those who are informed on Testosterone Replacement Therapy. I will be 21 in a few months and have completed 5 cycles of prohormones (2 of m-drol) and one cycle of Testosterone E. I now at this point realize I have low testosterone for someone my age and it has remained this way after 1 full year of being off cycle. I have tried Natty test boosters (Test Drive and DTP) as well as AI and SERMS. I feel just now i will never have my levels back to were they should be for a man my age. I know i really messed up as a teen and i wish i could spread the word to all the teens out there who want to use prohormones because the side effects are real. I was considering going on TRT for the rest of my life but i want to hear some feedback on users of this forum on their opinions. I really appreciate your help and all smart-ass comments be left to the side please, I know i should never have done this but it is too late now.

 

[EasyEJL]

Do you have bloodwork? or do you just "know" you have low testosterone

 

[fisher300]

I dont feel i need to wast time/money with blood work. My levels are low and I have all the side effects of low test. I feel my final cycle of 600mg of test e per week for 12 weeks finalized the shut down of my HPTA. I am having a hard time gaining any mass at all now, and i feel TRT is my only choice

 

[fisher300]

I think i might go actually get blood work because i will need to any ways if i will start any form of TRT.

 

[indianballer]

I'm in the same boat bro. I was in the 200's at 19. I got em up to about 700 with natty test boosters and clomid before jumping back in with both feet. I'd be interested to see how finding a doctor to do TRT at 21 will work out for ya. Keep us informed.

 

[fisher300]

Yea i will defiantly keep this thread going, I know alot of teens who have taken pro hormones (alot of teens) and they all cant gain mass anymore as we should be able too. Does anyone know much about TRT, i can do a google search but sometimes i like to read personal experiences instead.

 

[MikeGfilms]

Did you always do PCT? if so what was your last pct? and others?

You might want to get bloodwork done, then try a clomid or torem cycle + Natty test boosters (TRS, HCGenerate, etc). Should do the trick.

 

[fisher300]

yea i always dide pct. The only time i ran serms (nolva and clomi) was after my test e cycle. I have done a few cycles of test boosters after that lest cycle cause i know i didnt recover all the way. One cycle over the summer of DTP and nolvedex xt, and i just finished a cycle of test drive and propadrol ep.

 

[EasyEJL]

Well, what do you want to know about trt? Basically you either get gels for transdermal use, or injections. Odds of you being able to conceive a child become low after you've been on a while.

 

[fisher300]

what about injections, would i be able to give them to myself instead of going to the dr? is this something i would be on for THE REST OF MY LIFE?

 

[omni]

Its like being a diabetic and having to use insulin.

 

[DYEGYE]

I'm definitely showing this thread to a buddy of mine. He knows a kid who is 17, just ran DMZ and did an OTC PCT, and is jumping back on. He keeps trying to tell him he's an idiot, but he just won't listen.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

You should watch progress/logs on the androseries after they are shipped. They might be ideal for someone who doesn't have access to injections.

Easy, do you think he should still get bloodwork done? I think it would be most wise... he could have some underlying issue causing his low test.

 

[Machwon1]

I think as long as you use a serm after a prohoromone... With a natty test booster and some cortisol control... Your natty test will be right where it was before if not higher.... One reason is makes sense is when your on... Test is extremely high... And also estrogen rises... When you come off test crashes and hard... Down to near zero level... But estrogen stays high... Well the body wants to match test to the high levels of estrogen.... So natty test should shoot back up... With a serm... No OTC crap....


Also gaining no mass could be diet and training...

 

[EasyEJL]

what about injections, would i be able to give them to myself instead of going to the dr? is this something i would be on for THE REST OF MY LIFE?

yes and yes. Once you start, its done. Right now, you might be able to see one of the few specialty doctors who can try a restart protocol with you, or at least figure out if your hypogonadism is primary or secondary. www.allthingsmale.com is one who has more experience in this than anyone.

Easy, do you think he should still get bloodwork done? I think it would be most wise... he could have some underlying issue causing his low test.

Its absolutely critical. it may not even be low test. it could be liver issues, kidney issues, etc. There are a lot of other things that will give similar symptoms, which is why blood work before ever doing a cycle, and bloodwork between cycles is so critical. Without the pre-cycling bloodwork some guys end up like monsterbox. He was pretty ripped and big before he started on havoc, etc at 19, then when by 21 he was forced onto TRT what does he say "I had low test levels before cycling" rather than taking real responsibility for his actions.

 

[fisher300]

i will get blood work on monday. by then it will be one week off of using propadrol ep, do think that is enough time to give me good results? I will post my results up here once i get them but i will be next week sometime. I appreciate all the support fellas

 

[BigBlackGuy]

i will get blood work on monday. by then it will be one week off of using propadrol ep, do think that is enough time to give me good results? I will post my results up here once i get them but i will be next week sometime. I appreciate all the support fellas

Maybe it will be. Maybe not. Only the blood tests will tell. You see where I'm going with this? lol

If you're not willing to get regular blood tests it seems foolish to cycle at all.

 

[fisher300]

yea its just a pain in the ass waiting to schedule an appt. then waiting to get the results, but now i know its something that u just cant skip. BTW i scheduled my appointment today for a full hormone panel test, but i wont go in until thursday. Is there anything else in specific i should get tested, i also mentioned i want to test my levels of HGH because i feel i might be on the low end

 

[ktatro1]

A week may still give you a false sense of security on your tests levels though. I dunno how long exactly it takes the body to return to its point of homeostasis in general but keep that in mind. I would still most certainly get the blood work done, and probably follow it up with another round a couple months down the road.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

A week may still give you a false sense of security on your tests levels though. I dunno how long exactly it takes the body to return to its point of homeostasis in general but keep that in mind. I would still most certainly get the blood work done, and probably follow it up with another round a couple months down the road.

If he gets LH and FSH done, he won't have anything but a "true negative" when he looks at the paper, lol.

You need a few weeks off from the hormones before really knowing baseline. By baseline, I mean "Ive done a bunch of cycles" baseline.

 

[Machwon1]

So after let's say 5-7 cycles what should someones test be? I'm hoping still in the 500... Or what? Are we really doing this much damage to our test?

 

[bakerderek0]

So after let's say 5-7 cycles what should someones test be? I'm hoping still in the 500... Or what? Are we really doing this much damage to our test?

The only way to know where your natural test levels should be is to always get pre-cycle & post-pct blood work. Doc's can tell you what the average test levels should be for your age group, but as to what your personal natural test levels were...you won't know if you are exactly back to normal without pre-cycle blood tests.

The amount of damage done is determined by the compound you run/dosage/length of cycle and is largely determined by your PCT.

 

[MikeGfilms]

Actuallynow that i remember this, i posted a thread awhile back about some of the possibilities of teens using steroids and what could happen. I was thinking that if the teen is still in puberty, it could possibly halt puberty entirley by the body seeing increased androgens and estrogen, etc. Also, it could easily lead to acquired hypogonadism which could leave you with permanent low test levels forever if you were never fully developed. I wonder the same things because i too started steroids before 21.

But on the other hand, maybe the increase in hormones speeds up the puberty process? Idk, just some food for thought.

 

[fisher300]

your defiantly right that taking teens while in low levels of puberty wil halt future growth. when i did my first cycle i already had body hair and got some the early signs of puberty but i could tell my body fully hasnt finished growing as a man. Im not sure on what my actual test levels are because i have never even known. When i get my results from my blood work on thursday i feel my levels will be low for someone my age but not low enough to go on trt which scares me because im almost 21 and dont want to have the test levels of a 40yr old man. Imagine by the time im 40 then! I know on trt you administer one shot weekely to biweekely and im ok with that for the rest of my life honestly. Do you think any doc would still give me trt tho my levels are low but now low enough?

 

[bakerderek0]

In my experiences...if you find the right doctor....you can get anything you want. Probably not the family physican...

 

[fisher300]

would this be silly to cut my natural test off so when i get the bloodwork my doc will see this and almost have to give me trt?

 

[bakerderek0]

Very silly. I wouldn't recommend shutting yourself down. I would save trt as a last resort. Get bloodwork, see how it looks...alot of people assume it's test levels. It could be something else. Get a full hormonal panel done. If its a test issue, Then see what you can do with natty test boosters. If you find the right doctor, they will help you. Just be honest with them about your past.

 

[bakerderek0]

We call them "doc's in the box" around here. Small office, maybe just starting their practice up...get the idea?

 

[fisher300]

im pretty much just stuck with the Dr up at school but i will see how the results are. I really dont want to be on natty test boosters for the next 10 years just so i can appear in the "normal" test ranges. i would almost rather just take the weekely injections for the rest of my life and be guaranteed with high levels of test. I want to somehow spread the word to all other teens out there about using PH, i know none of them even listen but maybe my case could be used as an example.

 

[bakerderek0]

Oh. One bad thing about being honest with the doc is if your insurance finds out about aas use. It may be a violation of terms and void your health insurance. I haven't heard of this happening, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[fisher300]

yea i can defiantly see this happening and seince im under my parents insurance and if they found out i would be DEKCUF! Thats why i wanted to go in there with lowest possible test levels so then the doc would have to put me on trt without saying anything about AAS use in the past.

 

[bakerderek0]

I don't know if that would be his first reaction. You'll probably have to go through a bunch of BS first. Goodluck dude!

 

[fisher300]

yea thats what i was thinking but didnt want to believe it, i will post my results when they come in

 

[MikeGfilms]

your defiantly right that taking teens while in low levels of puberty wil halt future growth. when i did my first cycle i already had body hair and got some the early signs of puberty but i could tell my body fully hasnt finished growing as a man. Im not sure on what my actual test levels are because i have never even known. When i get my results from my blood work on thursday i feel my levels will be low for someone my age but not low enough to go on trt which scares me because im almost 21 and dont want to have the test levels of a 40yr old man. Imagine by the time im 40 then! I know on trt you administer one shot weekely to biweekely and im ok with that for the rest of my life honestly. Do you think any doc would still give me trt tho my levels are low but now low enough?

Yea dude its scary sh!t because there hasn't been enough testing done on steroids and long term effects, etc on situations like these. I wonder what the bloods and such of all the russian teen athletes during the 70s that were given tons of steroids, look like today.

 

[fisher300]

hey bloodwork came in today, ill post results tonight. she said my test was actually high, i did stop taking propadrol ep 1 week before hand so that might have messed up the results.

 

[fisher300]

Alright Guys just my results and both free and total test were flagged high, Testosterone Serum was 156 ng/dl, and Free Test was 5.0 pg/ml. I thought normal ranges for test were 300-900??? My doc said my levels were way above normal. But to add two points of information, i just finished a 2 week cycle of Propadrol ep 1 week before my test (daa and methoxyflavoe) and i was 3 days on Superdrol when i took the test. I figured the SD would cause some suppression of the HPTA thus making me have slightly lower test levels but it turned out to be opposite. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[fisher300]

Just noticed under sex it says "F", is that why they were flagged high because it based my results on that of a 20 yr old female not male?

 

[ktatro1]

Serum test is deemed normal around 240 ng/dl I believe. If they told you you were high at 156 they are nuts. Women's test levels usually range from 20-100ng/dl, so thats probably why they told you you were high. Have them fix that. 156ng/dl is far below normal for men. especially your age.

 

[fisher300]

alright i thought so, what a stupid doctor! do u know what the normal range for free test is?

 

[ktatro1]

241-800ng/dl in males I believe. I feel like anything < 600 would be "sub-optimal".

 

[fisher300]

alright thanks ktatro!

 

[ktatro1]

I'm sorry I gave you the range for normal test. Free test "normal" range is 1.0-5.0 ng/dl, so you might be considered normal. But its also not considered abnormal for a 21 y/o male to be over 30ng/dl of free test. Your low both ways around brother. Sorry

 

[Movin_weight]

why would you take SD for 3 days before the test? Now you still have no clue what your baseline levels are... I don't usually flame people but you are seriously a f*ckin moron

 

[fisher300]

wow man thanks for the harsh input, but i actually did that for a reason. I wanted my test levels to show up low in the first place so i could get either trt or a prescription to make my levels return to normal. I have low test in the first place and i know that from all of the cycles i have done in the past. i used the sd to drop my levels even lower, but it was 156 only after 3 days of sd dosed at 10mg.

 

[ambulldog]

why would you take SD for 3 days before the test? Now you still have no clue what your baseline levels are... I don't usually flame people but you are seriously a f*ckin moron

agreed 100% the kids a moron. only a fool or someone who wants to stay on test not trt would tank their levels. he has no interest in whats good for him. my guess he just cant train naturally and needs it now. all those cycles and still a buck seventy five lol. good luck kid

 

[fisher300]

are u both a bunch of GED retards, my levels were 156 after 3 days on SD, my guess is my natural test would be 250-300 but only bloodwork would really tell. and yes i do want to be on trt if you would have read the beginning of my thread but instead u both come in here acting like hot ****, go criticize someone elses thread you meatballs

 

[ambulldog]

are u both a bunch of GED retards, my levels were 156 after 3 days on SD, my guess is my natural test would be 250-300 but only bloodwork would really tell. and yes i do want to be on trt if you would have read the beginning of my thread but instead u both come in here acting like hot ****, go criticize someone elses thread you meatballs

why dont you just forego the bw and start self medicating trt yourself? you cant screw yourself up anymore can you? lol. all kidding aside.

you cant guess what your t levels are. you know how many people say ive got low t because i have all the symptoms, plenty. you know how many symptoms of low t are symptoms of so many other problems? lots.

you tank your levels so that you can get trt. well good luck as no dr without months of testing is gonna give you trt until they are sure you arent trying to scam them which obviously you are. we arent saying this to be tools. only a moron at your age would want to be on trt for the rest of their life. trt is great for those that need it but ask anyone on trt if they wish they had normal levels and didnt have to deal with it and im sure the majority would say they wish they didnt have to deal with trt.

find a good dr that can help you out. get proper bw done when you are sure your levels should be normal. maybe they'll try a restart protocol. trt should be your very last option not the option you look most forward to. its not a glamorous life pinning 2x/week forever

 

[fisher300]

alright thanks for the informative opinion, i do see that trt for the rest of your life at age 20 would suck, but i dont see 1 shot each week that bad really... i stopped the sd after 9 days and will then go on a severe otc pct stack. ill get bw done again in a few months then to see what my lvls truely are. do u think they would do a restart protocol on me after my levels were this low then instead of going straight to trt? and what would that be (hcg, nolva and clomi)??

 

[ambulldog]

alright thanks for the informative opinion, i do see that trt for the rest of your life at age 20 would suck, but i dont see 1 shot each week that bad really... i stopped the sd after 9 days and will then go on a severe otc pct stack. ill get bw done again in a few months then to see what my lvls truely are. do u think they would do a restart protocol on me after my levels were this low then instead of going straight to trt? and what would that be (hcg, nolva and clomi)??

in general before starting trt they have to determine primary or secondary then apply treatment. usually they'll do an mri of the pituitary included in the testing. my restart protocol and im not saying mine was the norm or the most inclusive was 50mg clomid ed for 6 weeks. testing was done thereafter and no improvement was made. my levels were not clinically low at a high of 309 and a low of 289 so i went with a aa clinic.

just do what you can to get your natural levels back or at least get an accurate test to see where you stand. ive only been on trt for a year and it is great but id rather not have to inj 2x/week just to be normal like the avg guy.

 

[mikemd21289]

wow man thanks for the harsh input, but i actually did that for a reason. I wanted my test levels to show up low in the first place so i could get either trt or a prescription to make my levels return to normal. I have low test in the first place and i know that from all of the cycles i have done in the past. i used the sd to drop my levels even lower, but it was 156 only after 3 days of sd dosed at 10mg.

hahahahahaha :sigh1: