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skyline999
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Anyone had experience with this?
It's possible that even WITH estrogen in range; estrogen could still be slightly elevated. High SHBG should be addressed as well.No I’m not on PCT, my test went quite high on finasteride and then I started getting issues like what you body builders would face after a long run on testosterone/anabolics so I joined this forum as a lot of what you guys make sense as to what what going on with my body. In effect I think by body has kind of shut down as a post finasteride “pct” hasn’t been run. Any thoughts on what to use? I’m currently running caber for a month from my doc but symptoms are still present.
oestrogen writhing rage
Testosterone within range
Progesterone raise
Prolactin raised
SHBG raised
If your doctor is understanding, and willing to prescribe you AI/ Serms; by all means ask for them. This could get relatively expensive though, unless you have good health insurance (in the US anyway). However the research company's I mentioned are of exceptional quality, should your doctor/ healthcare system railroad you.So you’re saying I should ask my doc to continue caber whilst asking for aromasin and raloxifene?
Won’t the AI and SERM crush my estrogen too low?
This is somewhat of a fallacy. First generation SERMs (clomiphene/ tamoxifen) will somewhat lower TOTAL estrogen; after months/ years of continuous use. However second generation SERMs (toremifene/ raloxifene) will target estrogen more selectively in the body. They are MUCH less toxic, and more efficient at their specific purpose.Won’t the AI and SERM crush my estrogen too low?
Serms don't lower E, just occupy the receptors selectively on the body, so that E can't bind to the receptors. Raloxifene has the highest binding affinity to breast tissue and thus is the best serm for gyno control or attempted reversal. I don't think you should be taking any AI's though. Your E2 is not high, actually quite low already. Crashed E is not good. The lowering of shbg would be good, but I presume the effect of an AI on lowering the E further would be greater, than the increase in E from increased free T and freeing E from the shbg.So you’re saying I should ask my doc to continue caber whilst asking for aromasin and raloxifene?
Won’t the AI and SERM crush my estrogen too low?
It inhibits the 5-alpha reductase that converts test to DHT, so maybe it can result in increased test? Sounds like the raise on T would be marginal, but I don't know.i was lost at...'my test went quite high on finasteride'
are you saying finasteride increased your testosterone?
waiting for a supp company to include it in a test booster, lol.It inhibits the 5-alpha reductase that converts test to DHT, so maybe it can result in increased test? Sounds like the raise on T would be marginal, but I don't know.
Hi-Tech might have stinging nettle labeled as Finasteride.waiting for a supp company to include it in a test booster, lol.
yes it did, it was originally on 31 when on finasteride, these bloods are after stopping iti was lost at...'my test went quite high on finasteride'
are you saying finasteride increased your testosterone?
Thank you and thank you everyone. So my next step would be to get some Raloxifene, for how long do I run it for?Serms don't lower E, just occupy the receptors selectively on the body, so that E can't bind to the receptors. Raloxifene has the highest binding affinity to breast tissue and thus is the best serm for gyno control or attempted reversal. I don't think you should be taking any AI's though. Your E2 is not high, actually quite low already. Crashed E is not good. The lowering of shbg would be good, but I presume the effect of an AI on lowering the E further would be greater, than the increase in E from increased free T and freeing E from the shbg.
Outside of the prolactin and progesterone only your shbg is out of ordinary. You could try boron and tongat ali for lowering shbg (don't know how effective they are, but they are used for that).
Continue the caber as your doc has put you on it and you can try the Ralox too. It's a safe drug and the best for gyno as mentioned and won't lower your E. I think AI's would do more harm than good in your situation. Just my opinion.
Any conclusive studies on this? I was under the impression (at least in female studies), that extended use of SERMs will eventually lower total estrogenSerms don't lower E, just occupy the receptors selectively on the body, so that E can't bind to the receptors
To be honest I don't know about extended use. I'm only talking about immediate action and in periodic use.Any conclusive studies on this? I was under the impression (at least in female studies), that extended use of SERMs will eventually lower total estrogen
Have you been in a situation like this before or know of anyone in this situation? I thought some bodybuilders get progesterone induced gyno?Ralox Gyno reversal protocol - AnabolicMinds.com
After failing with many OTC AI's I am going to take a stab at killing my pubertal Gyno with Ralox What does the typical dosing protocol look like for this? ive seen a lot of different data on here ranging from 60 mg dosage to 120 mg dosage some people report no sides while other report sides...anabolicminds.com
How To Get Rid Of Gyno Without Surgery - Raloxifene For Gyno
In this article I delve into what I believe is the most effective method to get rid of gyno without surgery that exists.moreplatesmoredates.com
No one knows how well it will work for you, but it's typically the best bet outside of surgery. Your gyno might be only from the elevated prolactin, so it might go away with just the caber.
This stuff takes time. It's really impossible to say, without knowing how long the gyno has been there? Usually within a few weeks the tenderness goes away, and then another few weeks/ possibly months before the lumps go away.Thank you and thank you everyone. So my next step would be to get some Raloxifene, for how long do I run it for?
Would this get rid of the gyno lumps and itchy/puffy nipples?
Lol. Following thread for Hi-Tech bashing partyHi-Tech might have stinging nettle labeled as Finasteride.
How is crashed estrogen treated though? Because low estrogen puts me back in the same boat of low libido etc?This stuff takes time. It's really impossible to say, without knowing how long the gyno has been there? Usually within a few weeks the tenderness goes away, and then another few weeks/ possibly months before the lumps go away.
The reason I still recommend an AI is two fold. It allows you to control the estrogen in your body; should your blood work/ estrogen level change. You don't have to use the AI every day.
Also just my opinion; nothing about curing male gyno is etched in stone. But so what if you crash your estrogen? Just back off the AI. I would rather deal with crashed estrogen for a few weeks, then be unsuccessful and walking around with gyno
Low estro would be treated with the cessation of the AI and letting the body to produce some E to get levels back up. Or dhea could be taken to get levels up quicker or just take estrogens.H
How is crashed estrogen treated though? Because low estrogen puts me back in the same boat of low libido etc?
I'd be the captainLol. Following thread for Hi-Tech bashing party
No I can't recall. Have you tried the search function on this forum?Have you been in a situation like this before or know of anyone in this situation? I thought some bodybuilders get progesterone induced gyno?
Yeah I have. Not much joyNo I can't recall. Have you tried the search function on this forum?
So what’s the final verdict/path I should go down then?Low estro would be treated with the cessation of the AI and letting the body to produce some E to get levels back up. Or dhea could be taken to get levels up quicker or just take estrogens.
But for @Dmzjne what use would it be to lower E when it's pretty low already? Especially if using the serm that will occupy the receptors? Not looking to argue here or anything, I just strongly believe using an AI in this situation would do more harm than good. I'm definitely not a not it all or an expert even.
Edit: I guess you gave the thought behind your pov above already. I still don't see a reason for the E to start rising, but I guess you could take a low dose AI just to make sure it won't raise. And I've seen people have success with gyno reversal with crashing their E with Letro while simultaneously taking Ralox, but who knows how much the AI added to it.
I can't really give you a final verdict. You had my opinion a few posts above and you've had @Dmzjne 's opinion too (who knows about these stuff btw based on the posts I've seen from him). You could also ask your doctor what he thinks of adding anything else, but my assumption is he/she will say just stay on the caber. Rest is pretty much up to you I'm afraid. Maybe someone else will chime in also.So what’s the final verdict/path I should go down then?