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snagencyV2.0 said:
hahahaa! yeah, kevin is a trip!
i take that as a compliment :D
great program, harold reynolds is good too
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It was intended to be a compliment. Kevin is a riot. I enjoy Reynolds as well.


not to change the subject but - RIP joe weider
the man single-handedly did more to promote and further the industry of bodybuilding, while simultaneously bastardizing concepts and pushing growth backwards, than any man ever
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Saw that last night. Everything "Weider" was behind all of my lifting inspirations as a kid.
 
David Dunn said:
It was intended to be a compliment. Kevin is a riot. I enjoy Reynolds as well.
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see - even tho we can agree to disagree about some issues, bottom line is you are a wise and learned man my friend, with great insight into a vast array of many different things :)
Saw that last night. Everything "Weider" was behind all of my lifting inspirations as a kid.
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same here
he WAS the source for all things bb'ing, for the better part of two decades..for better or for worse
 
Oh my...

Yup science is wrong because it has the ability to evaluate new data and retract previous thoughts and theories based on new data. If only it was as magical as religion and can remain stagnent and always be right irregardless of whatever data is presented. If only..

And I imagine everyone who recites passages and presents their biblical "evidence" are professionally trained theologist right? Because if Im not able to accept scientific theories as possibilities unless I am an astrophysicist then the same should be true for those the believes the stories in the bible are definitive (which by the way NOTHING in science claims to be definitive, especially to the same extent religious people claim the bible to be)



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JudoJosh said:
Oh my...

Yup science is wrong because it has the ability to evaluate new data and retract previous thoughts and theories based on new data. If only it was as magical as religion and can remain stagnent and always be right irregardless of whatever data is presented. If only..

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Wrong? I do not believe the word was used in challenging the subject of science.

The church of man and his religion has changed over the centuries. Religion is indeed a joke.

Faith is not religion!
JudoJosh said:
And I imagine everyone who recites passages and presents their biblical "evidence" are professionally trained theologist right? Because if Im not able to accept scientific theories as possibilities unless I am an astrophysicist then the same should be true for those the believes the stories in the bible are definitive (which by the way NOTHING in science claims to be definitive, especially to the same extent religious people claim the bible to be)



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Additionaly, I myself have stated and concur that the Bible has been manipulated by - who - the church and religion - Invalid Link Removed

I have stated "as stated in scripture" (paraphrased) when supporting my stances as well as most have used a similar statement when science has been used to support theirs. No?

I cannot speak for what others have said.

:)
 
JudoJosh said:
Oh my...

Yup science is wrong because it has the ability to evaluate new data and retract previous thoughts and theories based on new data. If only it was as magical as religion and can remain stagnent and always be right irregardless of whatever data is presented. If only..

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science is wrong, JJ gleans from discussion here, and gets upset...

do we have to label "right" and "wrong"? see this is where the issues arise, in the internal conceptualization of what are essentially a collection of theories, and nothing more

JJ - you know my stance here, we have talked about how science "validates" bb'ing theory, sometimes correctly and sometimes incorrectly, but all based on information in hand at the given current time
i have long taken issue with that - not so much as the "right or wrong" issue of the studies themselves, but because of the individuals who run around adamantly proclaiming that "X is the only way to go, because abc theory has proved in this study" or "Y does not work, because it has been proven in this here obscure study"....
only to find out later: that what some ppl knew worked, despite what flew in the face of current existing science, and continued to espouse despite all the contrary belief, was later proven "correct" by some ADDITIONAL scientific study with further information or parameters

perspective, my friend
do not be offended, you scientific guy you, because of the fact science has flaws
science is only as great, as the information we have to process it..is not the end-all be-all
 
No but you challeneged the ability and capability to believe in a possibility. Big bang theory is plausible. Evolution is plausible. I don't need to be an astrophysicists or a biologist to accept these as potential scenerios. Same way you don't have to be a theologian to accept the bible as true


I can accept that faith =/= religion but to some extent doesn't the bible = religion? So what is the faith in?

FYI, I am a deist which means I accept the idea of a higher supreme being but reject religions and their books.

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JudoJosh said:
No but you challeneged the ability and capability to believe in a possibility. Big bang theory is plausible. Evolution is plausible. I don't need to be an astrophysicists or a biologist to accept these as potential scenerios.


I can accept that faith =/= religion but to some extent doesn't the bible = religion? So what is the faith in?

FYI, I am a deist which means I accept the idea of a higher supreme being but reject religions and their books.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
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The word definitive was used.

As much as I have faith - I believe in the possibility of anything and everything and have never ever ruled out the possibility I could be entirely wrong about everything I place my faith in. For all I know (can prove) I am a figment of my imagination and all I hold onto is nothing but a blip of biological matter and energy that will fade and decay into nothingness.
 
David Dunn said:
NOT funny! I'm still freaked out over the experience 30 years later. :D

JudoJosh - except that I hold onto the one definitive formula for truth in my life: "the substance of things hoped for by the evidence of the unseen"
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Gah my head just blew up.... dd coming in here and ae.... awsome...

I wouldnt even try to get into the middle of this. I love how everyone is using there play of words.... lol....

Maybe im not awake enough.... coffee!!
 
Kinggrommet said:
What's your point, bro? You sure as hell can't make one that disproves the one I posted, can you? Or one proving one word in the bible to be true, can you? Sorry if a little history upsets your world view.
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the difficulty that you might have is that the romans spoke of the christians as a contemporary cult (See Pliny). THey did not mention Yeshua or Jesus by name, but did mention that ar***** of what we call the early christians. I would say that there is a reason that is so....it is not so much Jesus per se....it is more that the Jews of the time were under constant persecution, not only from the Romans but from their own corrupted hierarchy. Most of the "typical" jews of the time, were poor and needed some semblance of hope. That does not prove that jesus existed, but that there very well could be a conglomeration of characters that created the jesus story. So...long story short....certain aspects of the bible are true without question. I just do not think the jesus story is real.

As I have already submitted, there are so many aspects of the jesus story that were taken from far earlier sources. Additionally, a great deal of the old testament was taken from far earlier sources. The whole moses story has its origin in ancient Syria.
 
I'm not saying that some of the historical information in the bible could not be true, I'm saying that taking this book we have now as the one and true word of god is a little presumptuous to say the least. The stories of genocide, incest, and just plain evil so not sit well with me I guess. Not too mention, people can't live inside of a whale, 2 of every ever-changing species of animal can not be put on a boat by a 650 year old man, god did not send a bear to kill 62 people for making fun of a bald man, I could go on and on. It's illogical and laughable.
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
not to change the subject but - RIP joe weider
the man single-handedly did more to promote and further the industry of bodybuilding, while simultaneously bastardizing concepts and pushing growth backwards, than any man ever
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when i was a kid, 'weider' was bodybuilding...everything involved, both good and bad seemed to have the weider name on it.
 
My pastor was giving a sermon this weekend about Christians in community. The moral of the sermon was that we as humans and more as Christians (because it was the congregation he was addressing) are created to be in community with one another.

The great thing about our pastor is that he also has academic credentials in psychology as well. Psychologists agree (and concur with the Christian concept of community) and propose that isolation, in whatever area or object of contemplation, limits our capacity emotionally, psychologically and intellectually.

He went on to mention that psychologists who study Metacognition suggest that peer to peer learning is far superior than student teacher learning in regard to peer community.

My point being is that although we have different beliefs, morals, faiths and opinions, consider the way you interact with others differing from yourself. We all, as a community, bring something of value to the table. When presented appropriately we all, as a community, can grow emotionally, psychologically and intellectually (and I would propose spiritually) .

Unless of course you present yourself as an arrogant, callous and obnoxious prick. Then I suggest that you stay in isolation. :)
 
thebigt said:
when i was a kid, 'weider' was bodybuilding...everything involved, both good and bad seemed to have the weider name on it.
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some of us chaps our showing our age :D

David Dunn said:
My point being is that although we have different beliefs, morals, faiths and opinions, consider the way you interact with others differing from yourself. We all, as a community, bring something of value to the table. When presented appropriately we all, as a community, can grow emotionally, psychologically and intellectually (and I would propose spiritually) .
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absolute win - and why you are so wise :)

i haven't always followed this guideline..we all grow at certain paces, for sure
but the older i've gotten, the more i have learned from simple observation (and by extension, interraction) with others - of all ages, backgrounds, diversity, education, beliefs, etc..even when i adamantly disagree with someone's pov, i try to intellectually grasp what they are saying, reasoning behind such; in more than one instance, have i been enlightened and thus changed my mind about something, in this fashion

and even when i am not dissuaded from my own stance, i still take away a learning experience from that interraction

this, to me, allows for true and more complete growth individually, intellectually, and yes emotionally and spiritually in some cases as well..ultimate fulfillment, if you will

truly, what you say here is golden my friend :thumbsup:

Unless of course you present yourself as an arrogant, callous and obnoxious prick. Then I suggest that you stay in isolation. :)
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LOL
 
Kinggrommet said:
I'm not saying that some of the historical information in the bible could not be true, I'm saying that taking this book we have now as the one and true word of god is a little presumptuous to say the least. The stories of genocide, incest, and just plain evil so not sit well with me I guess. Not too mention, people can't live inside of a whale, 2 of every ever-changing species of animal can not be put on a boat by a 650 year old man, god did not send a bear to kill 62 people for making fun of a bald man, I could go on and on. It's illogical and laughable.
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Despite your personal beliefs on the matter, you should never say that someone else's faith or religion is illogical and laughable just because you are viewing something from face value.

if God exists, then He who has power over all things can prevent a Man being digested by a whale, could he not?

Also, and just for reference I did not study history but my interpretation of the bible is not so literal; the story of Noahs ark may not imply 2 of every animal on the earth was put onto a boat but rather 2 of every animal in the KNOWN world. Much of the earth was undiscovered at that time, therefore their knoweldge of the earth was very much limited only by what they knew. While the Bible may say that the earth was flooded; did that mean the entire earth or only the part of the world in which the Jews knew? Never assume the Bible to be completely literal; for the circumstances in which they lived are much different from those we are in now.

Before you start "laughing" at people's beliefs, at least understand that you are limited by the capacity of your own mind; therefore just because something is not conceivable in your knoweldge, just not make in inconceivable in others.
 
David Dunn said:
My pastor was giving a sermon this weekend about Christians in community. The moral of the sermon was that we as humans and more as Christians (because it was the congregation he was addressing) are created to be in community with one another.

The great thing about our pastor is that he also has academic credentials in psychology as well. Psychologists agree (and concur with the Christian concept of community) and propose that isolation, in whatever area or object of contemplation, limits our capacity emotionally, psychologically and intellectually.

He went on to mention that psychologists who study Metacognition suggest that peer to peer learning is far superior than student teacher learning in regard to peer community.

My point being is that although we have different beliefs, morals, faiths and opinions, consider the way you interact with others differing from yourself. We all, as a community, bring something of value to the table. When presented appropriately we all, as a community, can grow emotionally, psychologically and intellectually (and I would propose spiritually) .

Unless of course you present yourself as an arrogant, callous and obnoxious prick. Then I suggest that you stay in isolation. :)
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as a clinical psychologist myself i fully agree with this statement
this thread is a prime example, regardless of my beliefs iv taken from this
 
oh btw - an addendum to my above post
for those of you who are surprised i would have such stance or doubt my sincerity, all i can say is:
it is tuff, being a recovering prickaholic..day by day process, sometimes you slip :p

i was in the timeout corner for a long time, in my life
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
it is tuff, being a recovering prickaholic..day by day process, sometimes you slip :p
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I feel your pain. Its not an easy life always being right all the time and having to tell others they are wrong. But hey, someones got to do it :p



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snagencyV2.0 said:
oh btw - an addendum to my above post
for those of you who are surprised i would have such stance or doubt my sincerity, all i can say is:
it is tuff, being a recovering prickaholic..day by day process, sometimes you slip :p

i was in the timeout corner for a long time, in my life
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JudoJosh said:
I feel your pain. Its not an easy life always being right all the time and having to tell others they are wrong. But hey, someones got to do it :p



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2
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While you guys are busy preaching who's leading this choir of ours? :D
 
abe lincoln once sat quiet at a staff meeting while his cabinent was engaged in heated debate. when asked about his silence abe replied 'when i listen i learn, when i talk i do not'.

not relevant to anything here, just a cool little story!!!
 
thebigt said:
abe lincoln once sat quiet at a staff meeting while his cabinent was engaged in heated debate. when asked about his silence abe replied 'when i listen i learn, when i talk i do not'.

not relevant to anything here, just a cool little story!!!
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Totally relevant big man. I've read every post in this thread and only commented for humorous purposes (aside from letting Mr Dunn know that I found him to be wise). I'm no Abe Lincoln but I've learned quite a bit about other members through this thread alone.
 
iparatroop said:
Totally relevant big man. I've read every post in this thread and only commented for humorous purposes (aside from letting Mr Dunn know that I found him to be wise). I'm no Abe Lincoln but I've learned quite a bit about other members through this thread alone.
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I appreciate the kind words.

It's been a long time since I have posted in general and certainly to this extent. I appreciate all those participants who have shared in the discussion.

It always makes me think and often too much. My head hurts today.

"Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood"

Now back to work. :)
 
David Dunn said:
It's been a long time since I have posted in general and certainly to this extent. I appreciate all those participants who have shared in the discussion.

"Seek First to Understand, Then to Be Understood"
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As iron sharpens iron, so too have you sharpened me.

paraphrased, and fitting :)
 
Jiigzz said:
Despite your personal beliefs on the matter, you should never say that someone else's faith or religion is illogical and laughable just because you are viewing something from face value.

if God exists, then He who has power over all things can prevent a Man being digested by a whale, could he not?

Also, and just for reference I did not study history but my interpretation of the bible is not so literal; the story of Noahs ark may not imply 2 of every animal on the earth was put onto a boat but rather 2 of every animal in the KNOWN world. Much of the earth was undiscovered at that time, therefore their knoweldge of the earth was very much limited only by what they knew. While the Bible may say that the earth was flooded; did that mean the entire earth or only the part of the world in which the Jews knew? Never assume the Bible to be completely literal; for the circumstances in which they lived are much different from those we are in now.

Before you start "laughing" at people's beliefs, at least understand that you are limited by the capacity of your own mind; therefore just because something is not conceivable in your knoweldge, just not make in inconceivable in others.
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speaking of Noah's ark, they believe to have found it frozen on Mt Ararat in Turkey (yes, this is a few years old, just wanted to reference it).

“And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.” (Genesis 8:4)

Although it says mountains of Ararat, the pictures we see today are on Mt. Ararat, which could be the ark, but could not be the ark and could be resting somewhere else. Just wanted to throw that out there.
​
 
Just checking in to see what the topic has transitioned to. I see it is still religion.

Hope my post didn't offend anyone. I backed out because I knew how it would go. Especially debating with David, which I have done before on the subject, I won't change his mind, he won't change mine, but I respect his opinion and I assume the same towards me.

Now hmm, whatever happened to the trolling that started this thread?
 
HereToStudy said:
Just checking in to see what the topic has transitioned to. I see it is still religion.

Hope my post didn't offend anyone. I backed out because I knew how it would go. Especially debating with David, which I have done before on the subject, I won't change his mind, he won't change mine, but I respect his opinion and I assume the same towards me.
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There are no hard feelings whatsoever.

Candidly, I have no academics to speak of in the field of critical thinking, debate, logic/reasoning or any other models for presenting agruments/challenges. I am flattered that you guys entertain my contributions and see them even worthy of consideration. There are many here, yourself included, that are a lot smarter than I am.

I know it's just semantics but having grown up in Catholicism and observed religion and the religious (and the hypocrisy - not slamming Catholics) I find myself frustarted with the term and any association with it. I have faith and practice faith.

My father was religious - he religiously drank until he passed out in the recliner by 8:00PM :)

Now hmm, whatever happened to the trolling that started this thread?
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You must admit the activity sure gets attention and there is no negative attention when it come to exposure :)
 
in all of my 54 years i think this is the heaviest snow i ever shoveled....


oops, wrong thread!!!!!
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
yeah you guys got hit a lil harder than we did in the north part of the state (for a change)
still, heavy shyte up here too
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took 35 minutes to do my driveway and sidewalks and i was truckin....decent workout!!! seriously surprised at how heavy it was....maybe it's just me getting 'less younger'.....
 
thebigt said:
took 35 minutes to do my driveway and sidewalks and i was truckin....decent workout!!! seriously surprised at how heavy it was....maybe it's just me getting 'less younger'.....
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By 54 I would have thought you would have a snow blower by now :)

Low 80's today, high 80's tomorrow and throughout the week. :nana:
 
Hell... I am on spring break and it's the first day and we get slammed. Gotta love the NE.
 
David Dunn said:
By 54 I would have thought you would have a snow blower by now :)

Low 80's today, high 80's tomorrow and throughout the week. :nana:
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it's fun to show off to the neighbors...particularly the younger lazy ones!!!


i figure as long as i am strong and fit i might as well put it to use!!!
 
thebigt said:
it's fun to show off to the neighbors...particularly the younger lazy ones!!!

i figure as long as i am strong and fit i might as well put it to use!!!
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That and the navy never teaches you the easy way to do things. (Part of the reason they rocked bell-bottoms for so long. Weirdos)
 
iparatroop said:
That and the navy never teaches you the easy way to do things. (Part of the reason they rocked bell-bottoms for so long. Weirdos)
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the right way...the wrong way...the navy way!!!!
the only problem i had with the bell bottoms was all those dammed buttons, lol. had to start unbuttoning on the way to the head!!!
 
really miss living in Philly. Hate houston weather, although today is perfect. 60 degrees, not a cloud in the sky
 
thebigt said:
the right way...the wrong way...the navy way!!!!
the only problem i had with the bell bottoms was all those dammed buttons, lol. had to start unbuttoning on the way to the head!!!
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I usually skip a couple of buttons on my uniform pants on purpose. Started doing that while deployed. Air conditioning and rapid response in case of emergency fluid purge situations.
 
iparatroop said:
I usually skip a couple of buttons on my uniform pants on purpose. Started doing that while deployed. Air conditioning and rapid response in case of emergency fluid purge situations.
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when you are dealing with 13 buttons a few open still leaves a lot, lol.

the story i heard passed down was a button for each original colony...i later found out this was false, but never heard the real reason for so many dammed buttons!!!!
 
thebigt said:
when you are dealing with 13 buttons a few open still leaves a lot, lol.

the story i heard passed down was a button for each original colony...i later found out this was false, but never heard the real reason for so many dammed buttons!!!!
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Just like seven belt loops for days of the week, 52 balls on the short dog tag chain and 365 on the long (self-explanatory).
 
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