Prevent Testicular Shrinkage with a New Legal hCG Alternative -- 7,8 Benzoflavone

Primordial Perf said:
Still lookin for a tester on a basic 400-500mg/wk testosterone cycle... anyone?

-Pp
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pp I`m gonna use injectable primo , test(andriol) and mass tabs and I `ll do blood work in the end of cycle and end of pct, I`m not asking you to gave me those hormone test kits but I`ll post my results here anyway, if in the end of cycle I`m not totally suppressed that will be great , in my last cycle (30 mg d-bol, 150 mg oral primo))my test levels drop from 31,3 ng/ml ( generally my test is on this values)to 7,2 , lets see with the sustain...
 
Primordial Perf said:
If using it for the on-cycle protocol I would start 1 week into the cycle and start with 10 pumps two days in a row -- taking 5 days off between each 2-day run.

-Pp
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pp my sustain arrived today and I`ll begin to use it next Monday with this protocol, have you guys made any tests with testers before and with what results or this is only theoretical expectations?
 
nunes said:
pp my sustain arrived today and I`ll begin to use it next Monday with this protocol, have you guys made any tests with testers before and with what results or this is only theoretical expectations?
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It’s a theory based off science and our preliminary in-house blood tests.

The real test will be with all these methylated exotic pro-hormones and pro-steroids guys are cycling these days… We should begin testing here in the next couple weeks once we gather all of our testers.

-Pp
 
Primordial Perf said:
It’s a theory based off science and our preliminary in-house blood tests.

The real test will be with all these methylated exotic pro-hormones and pro-steroids guys are cycling these days… We should begin testing here in the next couple weeks once we gather all of our testers.

-Pp
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best of luck for you guys
 
I am on my first injectable cycle, with mdrol as a kickstarter.

I am still in week 1, with my 2nd injection that took place this morning.

Below is my log with all of the information in the first post pertaining to my cycle.

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Age: 21
Currently: 1 week in Test E 500mg/wk, 2nd week begins the 8th.

Bloodwork will be done in a little bit, I am waiting for my insurance to be activated and receive my card.
However, I do check my blood pressure Systolic, Diastolic .

Anyways, i gotta go if you need info let me know, I train twice a day and its gonna be hard for me to get up if I dont get my ass in the gym and SQUAT!
 
Primordial Perf said:
It’s a theory based off science and our preliminary in-house blood tests.

The real test will be with all these methylated exotic pro-hormones and pro-steroids guys are cycling these days… We should begin testing here in the next couple weeks once we gather all of our testers.

-Pp
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PP this was my first day with sustain, 10 pumps 2 days in a row with 4 days off , just like you said, well what can I say, believe it or not I had a huge hard on 2 hours after the application and some testicular pains all day long , I`m not sure what this means, I hope its a good sign but 1 thing is certain , it sure did something to me...

By the way is this the science you mentioned?
Prevention of chronic alcohol and nicotine-induced azospermia, sterility and decreased libido, by a novel tri-substituted benzoflavone moiety from Passiflora incarnata Linneaus in healthy male rats


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nunes said:
PP this was my first day with sustain, 10 pumps 2 days in a row with 4 days off , just like you said, well what can I say, believe it or not I had a huge hard on 2 hours after the application and some testicular pains all day long , I`m not sure what this means, I hope its a good sign but 1 thing is certain , it sure did something to me...

By the way is this the science you mentioned?
Prevention of chronic alcohol and nicotine-induced azospermia, sterility and decreased libido, by a novel tri-substituted benzoflavone moiety from Passiflora incarnata Linneaus in healthy male rats


Invalid Link Removed
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That’s a piece of the science… but the scientists in that study proposed it being related to inhibiting aromatase… but that’s not what our blood tests say. The 7,8-benzoflavone is likely inhibiting the negative feedback loop by GABAergic modulation.

BTW, we are finalizing some in-house testing before starting with our testers. We are considering running some d-Asp with the Sustain testers to help condition and prime the GnRH neurons for a stronger LH surge.

-Pp
 
Primordial Perf said:
That’s a piece of the science… but the scientists in that study proposed it being related to inhibiting aromatase… but that’s not what our blood tests say. The 7,8-benzoflavone is likely inhibiting the negative feedback loop by GABAergic modulation.

BTW, we are finalizing some in-house testing before starting with our testers. We are considering running some d-Asp with the Sustain testers to help condition and prime the GnRH neurons for a stronger LH surge.

-Pp
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whats d-asp?
 
Primordial Perf said:
That’s a piece of the science… but the scientists in that study proposed it being related to inhibiting aromatase… but that’s not what our blood tests say. The 7,8-benzoflavone is likely inhibiting the negative feedback loop by GABAergic modulation.

BTW, we are finalizing some in-house testing before starting with our testers. We are considering running some d-Asp with the Sustain testers to help condition and prime the GnRH neurons for a stronger LH surge.

-Pp
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Does this mean Phenibut (Gaba-B), GABA, and benzodiazepines (Gaba-A) can prevent shutdown?
 
Ziquor said:
Does this mean Phenibut (Gaba-B), GABA, and benzodiazepines (Gaba-A) can prevent shutdown?
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No. Anything that is activating the GABA-A is going to inhibit GnRH rather than stimulate it… and this includes GABA, phenibut, and benzodiazepine. You need a pure GABA-B agonist, or perhaps an inverse-agonist of GABA-A.

D-asp = D-Aspartic Acid

-Pp
 
Primordial Perf said:
No. Anything that is activating the GABA-A is going to inhibit GnRH rather than stimulate it… and this includes GABA, phenibut, and benzodiazepine. You need a pure GABA-B agonist, or perhaps an inverse-agonist of GABA-A.

D-asp = D-Aspartic Acid

-Pp
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Interesting, but wouldn't a Gaba-A antagonist produce anxiety and nervousness?
 
Ziquor said:
Interesting, but wouldn't a Gaba-A antagonist produce anxiety and nervousness?
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Maybe. But remember, there is a lot going on with GABA receptors -- alpha, beta, gamma, delta receptors – pre and post synaptic interactions – receptor ligands, ect

7,8 benzoflavone has anti-anxiety effects, but no drowsiness effects, and it appears to work by acting as a GABA-b agonist. [as well as other mechanisms] It’s very cool stuff.

-Pp
 
Primordial Perf said:
No. Anything that is activating the GABA-A is going to inhibit GnRH rather than stimulate it… and this includes GABA, phenibut, and benzodiazepine. You need a pure GABA-B agonist, or perhaps an inverse-agonist of GABA-A.

D-asp = D-Aspartic Acid

-Pp
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D-Aspartic Acid injectable or oral, I believe there's no oral d-asp supps right?
 
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Primordial Perf said:
Maybe. But remember, there is a lot going on with GABA receptors -- alpha, beta, gamma, delta receptors – pre and post synaptic interactions – receptor ligands, ect

7,8 benzoflavone has anti-anxiety effects, but no drowsiness effects, and it appears to work by acting as a GABA-b agonist. [as well as other mechanisms] It’s very cool stuff.

-Pp
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Sweet, Phenibut seems to be a Gaba-B agonist as well but I believe it's a mild alpha agonist as well unfortunately :o
 
Hey bro, I pm'd you back and wrote you the email as requested. WHats going on brother! Im ready when you are!
 
If you're still looking for testers PP, I'm doing a series of 2 week cycles. I'm thinking that the protocol you outlined with Sustain would help to quickly jumpstart the HPTA following cessation of any anabolics. That way, when my next 2 week cycle rolls around 2 weeks later, my hpta will be more than ready to handle it.
 
Im wondering how prudent that is. I think that eventually you would get shut-down, no matter what you take to counter-act it. Constant use of these supps seems to diminish their effect. I think you would have to have a period when you arent taking anything for it to work the way you want. JMO, Comments?
 
Knowbull said:
Im wondering how prudent that is. I think that eventually you would get shut-down, no matter what you take to counter-act it. Constant use of these supps seems to diminish their effect. I think you would have to have a period when you arent taking anything for it to work the way you want. JMO, Comments?
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I was thinking along the terms of this as well. When using potent AAS I doubt anything will allow you to actually avoid shutdown. However even if it helps this should lead to a quicker, easier recovery :thumbsup:
 
I have no doubt the TRS will work(Im using 2 of the components now) but it has to be cycled properly to maximize effects with a PH. Its not like there is an on, off, switch that can be flipped at will.
 
Knowbull said:
Im wondering how prudent that is. I think that eventually you would get shut-down, no matter what you take to counter-act it. Constant use of these supps seems to diminish their effect. I think you would have to have a period when you arent taking anything for it to work the way you want. JMO, Comments?
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The Sustain Alpha will be run for 2 days on, 5 days off for the “on cycle” protocol. [at a double dose]

This will [hopefully] allow the suppression to be relieved enough so LH & FSH can pulse during this period.

-Pp
 
Thats the protocol I will be useing, once I start mine. Probably around day 7-10, I may have to do another round for PCT. I will let you know how it works out.
 
I'm going to be running a mdrol pulse soon, and am planning on using Sustain Alpha during the pulse and in my PCT.

I the pulse is going to be three consecutive days a week. If you're out there PP, what days should I be using the Alpha on? I am just going to be using it two days a week to help with the whole leutinizing hormone thing. Should it be on two of the on days, or two of the off?

Thanks!
-bound


(Oh, I've got a thread that I started with this same question, if it's okay, I'll post your respnse there, too.)
 
bound said:
I'm going to be running a mdrol pulse soon, and am planning on using Sustain Alpha during the pulse and in my PCT.

I the pulse is going to be three consecutive days a week. If you're out there PP, what days should I be using the Alpha on? I am just going to be using it two days a week to help with the whole leutinizing hormone thing. Should it be on two of the on days, or two of the off?

Thanks!
-bound


(Oh, I've got a thread that I started with this same question, if it's okay, I'll post your respnse there, too.)
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Use it on the off days.

I’ve never been a fan of pulsing, but if coupled with the Sustain Alpha protocol, this may actually be something that could work the way everyone wants it to. [gains without the side effects]

-Pp
 
Primordial Perf said:
Use it on the off days.

I’ve never been a fan of pulsing, but if coupled with the Sustain Alpha protocol, this may actually be something that could work the way everyone wants it to. [gains without the side effects]
-Pp
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Thats what im talking about :clap2:
 
Primordial Perf said:
The Sustain Alpha will be run for 2 days on, 5 days off for the “on cycle” protocol. [at a double dose]

This will [hopefully] allow the suppression to be relieved enough so LH & FSH can pulse during this period.

-Pp
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so, PP any news about this?
does the sustain help on avoiding shutdown or not?
 
Im bumping for this. What about using the Sustain 2 days on, 2 off, towards the end of cycle? Would that diminish its effect for PCT? Im asking because I noticed a difference when I applied it recently.
 
I will say that I am using sustain alpha throughout my current cycle and my testes have shrunk a little after 6 weeks in but nothing near the shrinkage I have had in the past without Sustain or HCG.
So it is helping for sure. I usually use the sustain 4 or 5 pumps in the morning 3-5 days a week. (Basically whenever I have time to put it on before work). I feel much better overall during this cycle than I have in other cycles without sustain.
 
I'm doing it with my cycle. I'll post my results in this thread. PCT oughta be easy if this works. I'm on a PH that kills sex drive with high doses, so hopefully Sustain will have some effect on negating this too.
 
Primordial Perf said:
We got some good results back from titanium … Ill have to link up the thread… still waiting on the other testers to get back to me.

If others are still interested in testing we will take new people.

-Pp
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Im definately interested in trying it out with the trenx/pplex/mdrol cycle im logging soon. send me a pm if you like.
 
Primordial Perf said:
We got some good results back from titanium … Ill have to link up the thread… still waiting on the other testers to get back to me.

If others are still interested in testing we will take new people.

-Pp
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I did have good results. I took the first blood test after week 2 and the second blood test after week 3. My LH increased by 35.7% and my FSH increased by 50%. What was interesting was that I should have been more suppressed after week 3 than after week 2 but my LH and FSH increased!! I was pleasantly surprised with my results. I won't cycle again without Sustain Alpha.
 
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