Pretty sure the supp game is just one big hoodwink

[rb624]

A while back I posted how I took Triazole and got nothing (or worse) from it. Now I just did 28 days of Erase Pro and can't say it did me a lick of good. I've also read a lot of user's logs, and I can't help but think that (at least for the most part) this supp game is just one big sham. The logs are filled with things like "I felt harder" and "My libido increased" and "I got a dryer look" and all kinds of abstract notions. I thought I may have had some of those symptoms too, but come on. Would any of us swear over our mother's or kids' lives that these supps have actually done anything for us? It's easy to convince yourself that some supp did something for you, because you're looking for that to be true, but beyond thermogenics making my heartrate zoom, I have no idea if any supp has done jack for me.

There is a faction out there who tell the world that the supp co's are ripping us off, and I'm starting to see their point. Most supp co's don't tell us anything concrete about their product's results. Those that do, offer us studies that are flawed or purposely vague. Let's look at test-boosters and anti-e's. Did a supp rep ever come out and say "My T was (#) before taking this product, and now my T is (#)"? I can't remember reading anything like that. They just sell us fantasies of "hard" "dry" "lean", etc.

I also love how a lot of the dudes logging **** on this board are usually taking 5,6,7 other products on and off simultaneously. They stop and start various supps at the drop of a hat and think that their log of one particular product holds water.

I know I haven't read everything on this board. There may be exceptions. But so far I've taken two supposedly powerful test boosters and have not felt ****. Feel free to PM me (if I'm not banned) if you think there is real product out there. If you agree with me, then stop feeding their machine. Keep your money in your pocket for a while, and maybe somebody somewhere will actually come up with a product that works instead of one that makes us say "I think it's working; I think I'm making gains (blah blah blah)".

 

[fueledpassion]

I believe your theory is accurate for the vast majority of supplements. They don't work or those that do something are marginal at best. I do have positive things to say about Formestane, Toco-8, and in one case, Sustain Alpha but only the TD version not the oral.

Otherwise, the only things that seem to work are methylated in nature, if you get my drift.

There is also another industry that seems to be following in the footsteps of the phony supps companies as well - research chem companies. Watering down or selling fake stuff. Granted, I can think of ONE research company that has legit stuff for sale in which the prices reflect such!

 

[D2footballjrc]

A while back I posted how I took Triazole and got nothing (or worse) from it. Now I just did 28 days of Erase Pro and can't say it did me a lick of good. I've also read a lot of user's logs, and I can't help but think that (at least for the most part) this supp game is just one big sham. The logs are filled with things like "I felt harder" and "My libido increased" and "I got a dryer look" and all kinds of abstract notions. I thought I may have had some of those symptoms too, but come on. Would any of us swear over our mother's or kids' lives that these supps have actually done anything for us? It's easy to convince yourself that some supp did something for you, because you're looking for that to be true, but beyond thermogenics making my heartrate zoom, I have no idea if any supp has done jack for me.

There is a faction out there who tell the world that the supp co's are ripping us off, and I'm starting to see their point. Most supp co's don't tell us anything concrete about their product's results. Those that do, offer us studies that are flawed or purposely vague. Let's look at test-boosters and anti-e's. Did a supp rep ever come out and say "My T was (#) before taking this product, and now my T is (#)"? I can't remember reading anything like that. They just sell us fantasies of "hard" "dry" "lean", etc.

I also love how a lot of the dudes logging **** on this board are usually taking 5,6,7 other products on and off simultaneously. They stop and start various supps at the drop of a hat and think that their log of one particular product holds water.

I know I haven't read everything on this board. There may be exceptions. But so far I've taken two supposedly powerful test boosters and have not felt ****. Feel free to PM me (if I'm not banned) if you think there is real product out there. If you agree with me, then stop feeding their machine. Keep your money in your pocket for a while, and maybe somebody somewhere will actually come up with a product that works instead of one that makes us say "I think it's working; I think I'm making gains (blah blah blah)".

I have blood work in my logs. starting, 30 days, and 60 days. I've seen several other logs with blood work as well. Been taking the exact same stack minus adding some weight loss patches to try over those 60 days. There are staples that work: Fish Oil, DAA, Multi's, Joint Support, Creatine all have scientific backing.

The biggest problem is people thinking supplements are going to work miracles.

It's always been and always will be:
70% diet, 25% working out, 5% supplements. If the other two aren't in check then forget about it. Even on dat der cell-tech ;-)

 

[AForney]

Look at some of the B&A blood test results if you don't like bro science.

 

[SpongeTom]

Actually one of the big reasons Ive moved to this forum from a certain other bodybuilding one, is I got sick of the logs and reviews over there.

I agree with you to an extent. How can you log a single supplement, yet run 10 other things at the same time. That makes no sense at all.

Or people who give a supplement 10/10 because they put on 2lbs that month. 2lbs? You wouldnt have got that anyway?

And the worst is if you dont agree with the forum mind-think over there, then you are automatically wrong.

Having said all that, I do think a lot of supplements have their merits.

 

[PrepNwa23]

You can believe what you want your entitled to that. But supplement industry is what it is. I usually stick with my staples and try things here and there. And if you don't like the natural supplements look into other things. Otherwise your complaining for no reason. Remember these aren't miracle pills you have to put work into your diet and training to see the results also.

 

[D2footballjrc]

Actually one of the big reasons Ive moved to this forum from a certain other bodybuilding one, is I got sick of the logs and reviews over there.

I agree with you to an extent. How can you log a single supplement, yet run 10 other things at the same time. That makes no sense at all.

Or people who give a supplement 10/10 because they put on 2lbs that month. 2lbs? You wouldnt have got that anyway?

And the worst is if you dont agree with the forum mind-think over there, then you are automatically wrong.

Having said all that, I do think a lot of supplements have their merits.

I log a big stack but not going to claim one item did it all either. I also know when I first started I thought supplements was going to fix everything, it didn't.. What I learned was that supplement enhanced the work I put in. You don't put the work in then it's not going to do much for you. That is the scam that people see a lot of time, I took this product and I ate a bag of chips and worked out for 20 minutes a day but I didn't buff up at all in 3 weeks.

 

[VaughnTrue]

I believe that 90%(at least) of supplements are useless.

 

[kisaj]

I actually feel that you have a great point because I am not technically a supplement person. In fact, I have made comment on here about how I find it ridiculous with the amount of supplements some people take. I've put in a lot of hard work for a lot of years and I have had my diet dialed since my early 20's (I'm 37 now).

That all being said, there are supplements that, without question, work as advertised. I started getting annuals and blood work done when I turned 30, so I always know my baseline. There are 3-4 supplements that I have talked about on here that I absolutely know work. They are simple products with limited ingredients, so you know what is actually working. Could I be just fine without them? Of course. Are they pushing me a little harder because I see and feel a change? Absolutely. I don't try something based just on reviews, I research the hell out of it.

Supplements have their place, but only after everything else is nailed.

 

[BPjohn123]

I believe that 90%(at least) of supplements are useless.

Any Iforce ones?

Just curious not trying to start anything.

If you would rather pm me that's cool too.

 

[freezito]

It's always been and always will be:
70% diet, 25% working out, 5% supplements. If the other two aren't in check then forget about it. Even on dat der cell-tech ;-)
exactly what he said

 

[M.Soleto]

I hope this is not true. I am now just getting into supplements and hearing this, this worries me a little. Once you do find a good and reliable source stick with them, the ones who make fake bull**** do not last long. That will always be true in everywhere.

 

[ProteinMurder]

So true, I stopped reading logs ages ago. Besides mood effects, herbal boosters of any kind are utter garbage. I'm amazed people still think they work, and all line up for the next ground breaking herb from the mountains of India. Who has really markedly changed their body composition from herbal supps? puh-lease. PWO's are the only supps that even come close to delivering on advertising claims.

 

[ProteinMurder]

I hope this is not true. I am now just getting into supplements and hearing this, this worries me a little. Once you do find a good and reliable source stick with them, the ones who make fake bull**** do not last long. That will always be true in everywhere.

Clearly, you have never heard of USP Labs and products such as Pink Magic....

 

[fightbackhxc]

In all reality supplements were created to fill in gaps of our diets. beyond that would basically be considered an ergonomic aid....which people put way to much faith and trust in. use them to push through plateaus but, make sure ur diet sleep and training are dialed in.

 

[miniarnold]

Sustain Alpha but only the TD version not the oral.
QUOTE]

I felt the oral version was working but stopped it to soon

 

[miniarnold]

I actually feel that you have a great point because I am not technically a supplement person. In fact, I have made comment on here about how I find it ridiculous with the amount of supplements some people take. I've put in a lot of hard work for a lot of years and I have had my diet dialed since my early 20's (I'm 37 now).
.

Agreed thats me exactly, only just started trying out supps after 10yrs training with just protein and occasionally creatine, never needed them but now curious to try out certain supps that claim could give me a little boost, obv diet training and all else must be in check to receive maximum or any benefit.

 

[miniarnold]

Good thread,
agree with all of what has been said especially logging a supplement when the person is on 3-6 different and ver similar supps waste of time and totally innacurate in imo, if your logging apart from simple basics i think 1 product at once keeping all else the same.

 

[quigley]

How many people here watch those stupid ab swing pro commercials or the like where they dazzle the world with how just swinging away for 15 minutes a day will 'shred kilos and give you a rock hard six pack'?

We all laugh because it's so ridiculous to us, who know that weight loss is diet, and getting a six pack is diet again, and certainly not easy.

But really, most of the supps that bodybuilder aspirants take are exactly the same as the ab swing pro: they don't deliver what you hope they will, and if they do, its due to confounding factors such as, and most importantly, the hard training and dieting you were doing along with the supplement. Placebo effect at best- you work out a little harder due to the added perception of reward to effort the supp is giving you. The reason why these supplements aren't viewed with the same disdain as the ab swing pro is that they are marketed differently. Ab swing pro is marketed at couch potatoes who don't know a thing about fitness: and it sells for that reason.

Bodybuilding supps are marketed toward people with nutritional knowledge and training knowledge, so they slap impressive labels on, doctor some lab results and add intense chemical names and throw in some top notch broscience and recruit sponsors. But in reality, it's just more spin aimed at a more specialized group.

And just like fitness pros who laugh at couch potatoes buying the ab swing pro, so do scientists, doctors and most especially, research companies and supp industries, except this time at the fitness freaks who think their buying the latest way to naturally lean out or bulk up or recomp, where in reality they are buying a placebo effect, which should not cost so much

Not to say no supps work: some supps have a place in adding that 5% like others have said. But really on that note, anyone who says a supp has added 5% to their results must be pretty precise with their measurements, because a +/- 5% tolerance for results which are sometimes as small as a few lbs of fat or muscle, is pretty darn hard to judge

Stick with the staples (or go to proven compounds like aas or ph), and invest the rest back into the training and diet. My opinion anyways

 

[0071982WC]

I don't even eat food, I just eat 10 grams of creatine six times a day......

 

[roblasane]

I'll swear to my kids that AnaBeta had me pumped all the time. Now did that result in any tangible muscle growth? I don't know but it did make me feel jacked all the time. I never really noticed a non stimulant based supplement that had results you could see.

 

[Bolanrox]

ala - def can feel the mood improvement in 1 or two doses

 

[thegodfather]

If it costs more than $20 and is not a steroid or protein, than its probably junk with great marketing.

 

[AaronJP1]

I believe that 90%(at least) of supplements are useless.

This.


We all know pre w/o gives you energy, protein is protein, creatine is studied, thermogenics provide energy, but over-all most supplements you really don't need and won't actually make or break your progress in anyway.

You say how can a rep say that, well I enjoy the products from my company, and although they may not make or break you, they so give you a slight edge as long as everything else is in place.

 

[D2footballjrc]

If it costs more than $20 and is not a steroid or protein, than its probably junk with great marketing.

Super Cissus is over $20 and works amazing, BCAA's depnding on serving size. Ultima, Daa, Multi's like Orange Triad, phenibut, Agmatine, and etc all cost more than $20 and are proven effective. Can't put a price point as much as just do your research.

 

[kisaj]

I'll swear to my kids that AnaBeta had me pumped all the time. Now did that result in any tangible muscle growth? I don't know but it did make me feel jacked all the time. I never really noticed a non stimulant based supplement that had results you could see.

There is no question. This is one of the few that does work, but it doesn't work if you don't eat properly and train. If you do, then you will see the benefits of the lasting muscle fullness and definition it provides. For those that complain that it doesn't work, I wholeheartedly believe that they are expecting to "feel" something like other supps, or they simply have no business taking it because they are expecting a miracle. I'd go so far as to say, Anabeta is the perfect supplement because it relies on you doing the right things, and then it fills in all the gaps that diet and training don't.

There is a reason that I, being a non supplement person, will pimp PES and BPS products. They are using either time tested ingredients that I have used for years before they were ever added to a supplement and/or they are simple and you know just what you are getting. For me, I don't care about a laundry list of junk that I have no idea how it is interacting with one another and no idea what is or isn't working.

 

[AutoKal47]

I use to use a ton of sups, I look at my old stash pictures and I get shivers..

Like some other said already I think 90% of sups are useless, meaning, the difference they make
are not worth the money they cost, for those that actually do something.

One thing i think is very important to mention tho', I think most people training
and diet are whacked, hence they will not see any benefit from supplements, that lil
% that they might add is canceled out by dirty diet, and not optimal training.

In the past year I cut pretty much all the sups I use to use, doing that tho'
I've been able to really spot those 3 or 4 products that *really* work for me,
that really made a difference and helped my performance in the gym and/or my body comp.
They became a staple for me and I don't "experiment" anymore (which is what the sups industry
count on, look how many new products come out every month, they don't care if they don't last,
but if most of us at least *try* them once, that's good enough money..)
I stick to what I KNOW it works and invest my money on those, and for the same reason
I believe it's important to be vocal about those ones that we know are effective.

Quick example: BCAAs have been one of my staples for almost 10 years,
because of my diet and my training habits. I couldn't live without them (notice I'm not listing brands)
When the higher leucine ratio madness came out, I was very very skeptical and since studies
were all over the place whether it was better or not, I kept using the regular ratio which I knew it was working for me.
For me, without trying it, the higher leucine dose was a marketing move.

Then recently I decided to test it myself and got bulk leucine along with BCAAs and EAAs and goddamn
the difference I am experiencing is crazy.. such an improvement.
I started a thread about it because, well, I was wrong. For once I got very - and positively - surprised
and I wanted others to know.

Now I use only 3 or 4 products aside from the basic (multi, bcaa/eaas, whey, fish oil),
creatine, beta ala which I buy bulk, Recompadrol and Craze. These, I use daily.
I know they work on me, they work with my style of training, my diet and my body.

Sups can give you an edge, but I agree very few of them really work and most important
you *need* to know your body very well and you need to have a solid diet and know how to train first.

 

[Mafesto31]

I've spent so much money over the past 5yrs on junk supplements. I no longer look at test boosters and other herbal products anymore besides daa and anabeta. Pre wo, creatine, and protein are all that's needed if u have a good diet. Oh and steroids work. Bcaas are complete Crap.

 

[OrganicShadow]

Food, water, and shelter are necessity. Everything else is a nicety.

As for those associated with fitness and exercise? There's a few proven given's: BCAA's, whey, omega fatty acids, creatine.

Often I find that the reason other supplementation yields poor results is that the individual has a bogus diet and weak training. Myself included. Leading to the second conclusion: diet and training is everything. Even then, its more about diet. I'm not saying all supplements are placebos, I'm saying that the effectiveness is dependent on the primary source. Also, if your on 100 different products somethings wrong. I see no reason to stack 3 fat burners, not drinking soda might help a bit more (and save money).

Going on what AutoKal said, over time you try things here and there and find your own personal staples. A creatine you really like, a pre-workout, a fat burner/energy pill. A preworkout is never necessary but it does provide benefit. Do your homework before buying - know what your ingesting and understand why.

 

[AaronJP1]

Food, water, and shelter are necessity. Everything else is a nicety.

As for those associated with fitness and exercise? There's a few proven given's: BCAA's, whey, omega fatty acids, creatine.

Often I find that the reason other supplementation yields poor results is that the individual has a bogus diet and weak training. Myself included. Leading to the second conclusion: diet and training is everything. Even then, its more about diet. I'm not saying all supplements are placebos, I'm saying that the effectiveness is dependent on the primary source. Also, if your on 100 different products somethings wrong. I see no reason to stack 3 fat burners, not drinking soda might help a bit more (and save money).

Going on what AutoKal said, over time you try things here and there and find your own personal staples. A creatine you really like, a pre-workout, a fat burner/energy pill. A preworkout is never necessary but it does provide benefit. Do your homework before buying - know what your ingesting and understand why.

How long u been with app nut? Just saw the sig

 

[BPjohn123]

Food, water, and shelter are necessity. Everything else is a nicety.

As for those associated with fitness and exercise? There's a few proven given's: BCAA's, whey, omega fatty acids, creatine.

Often I find that the reason other supplementation yields poor results is that the individual has a bogus diet and weak training. Myself included. Leading to the second conclusion: diet and training is everything. Even then, its more about diet. I'm not saying all supplements are placebos, I'm saying that the effectiveness is dependent on the primary source. Also, if your on 100 different products somethings wrong. I see no reason to stack 3 fat burners, not drinking soda might help a bit more (and save money).

Going on what AutoKal said, over time you try things here and there and find your own personal staples. A creatine you really like, a pre-workout, a fat burner/energy pill. A preworkout is never necessary but it does provide benefit. Do your homework before buying - know what your ingesting and understand why.

Good post

 

[grngoloco]

I believe your theory is accurate for the vast majority of supplements. They don't work or those that do something are marginal at best. I do have positive things to say about Formestane, Toco-8, and in one case, Sustain Alpha but only the TD version not the oral.

Otherwise, the only things that seem to work are methylated in nature, if you get my drift.

There is also another industry that seems to be following in the footsteps of the phony supps companies as well - research chem companies. Watering down or selling fake stuff. Granted, I can think of ONE research company that has legit stuff for sale in which the prices reflect such!

Exactly!! If you're paying $25 for soemthing that HAS to be bought from a research company,, it's probably fake!! HA!

 

[breezy11]

Big believer in diet and training when it come to results. Perdue, Quaker Oats, and Poland Springs are 3 companies that have provided me greater results than any supplement company ever will.

 

[AaronJP1]

Big believer in diet and training when it come to results. Perdue, Quaker Oats, and Poland Springs are 3 companies that have provided me greater results than any supplement company ever will.

Chicken, oats, & water!!! :lol:

:thumbsup:

 

[grngoloco]

My supplement list is mostly individual vitamins, aminos and herbal extracts,,,, I've found most companies don't have the ratios I've read are most desirable,,, also proprietary blends are meant for people not smart enough to know that quantities and ratios matter!!
I pay more buying these things individually,, but at least I know what I'm getting and I know the ratios I take are optimal,,, not MINIMUL!!!!

 

[jminis]

there are a lot of kitchen sink formula's out there but there are also a lot of supps that help. It really comes down to which company you trust. For example USP Labs has made great product that actually work. Now I haven't taken all of them but one of my favorites is the Super Cissus. I've tried Glucosamine/Chondrot ... stuf and it didn't ZERO for my joints. The Cissus on the other hand worked like a charm. Told my Doc about it and he even uses it lol. So it goes back to doing your homework.

 

[Torobestia]

Pretty much the only supplements I take are my staples (things like vitamins, minerals, and ergogenic supplements with substantial amounts of human research), with very few exceptions.

 

[OrganicShadow]

You should buy this product because... blah, blah, blah let me read the label and I'll decide from there. I know enough of the science to draw my own conclusion.

Oh another thought: I find that many start using supplementation as an excuse to not work so hard. I don't have to do cardio or I can have some pizza because Im on _______. Totally false.

 

[Torobestia]

You should buy this product because... blah, blah, blah let me read the label and I'll decide from there. I know enough of the science to draw my own conclusion.

I definitely do that, too. That's basically what it takes.

 

[R1balla]

A while back I posted how I took Triazole and got nothing (or worse) from it. Now I just did 28 days of Erase Pro and can't say it did me a lick of good. I've also read a lot of user's logs, and I can't help but think that (at least for the most part) this supp game is just one big sham. The logs are filled with things like "I felt harder" and "My libido increased" and "I got a dryer look" and all kinds of abstract notions. I thought I may have had some of those symptoms too, but come on. Would any of us swear over our mother's or kids' lives that these supps have actually done anything for us? It's easy to convince yourself that some supp did something for you, because you're looking for that to be true, but beyond thermogenics making my heartrate zoom, I have no idea if any supp has done jack for me.

There is a faction out there who tell the world that the supp co's are ripping us off, and I'm starting to see their point. Most supp co's don't tell us anything concrete about their product's results. Those that do, offer us studies that are flawed or purposely vague. Let's look at test-boosters and anti-e's. Did a supp rep ever come out and say "My T was (#) before taking this product, and now my T is (#)"? I can't remember reading anything like that. They just sell us fantasies of "hard" "dry" "lean", etc.

I also love how a lot of the dudes logging **** on this board are usually taking 5,6,7 other products on and off simultaneously. They stop and start various supps at the drop of a hat and think that their log of one particular product holds water.

I know I haven't read everything on this board. There may be exceptions. But so far I've taken two supposedly powerful test boosters and have not felt ****. Feel free to PM me (if I'm not banned) if you think there is real product out there. If you agree with me, then stop feeding their machine. Keep your money in your pocket for a while, and maybe somebody somewhere will actually come up with a product that works instead of one that makes us say "I think it's working; I think I'm making gains (blah blah blah)".

actually yes, and I am one of them.

 

[OrganicShadow]

Big believer in diet and training when it come to results. Perdue, Quaker Oats, and Poland Springs are 3 companies that have provided me greater results than any supplement company ever will.

You ever try anything from Certa? They make these stuff called Mattress. Helps with sleep, it's awesome. If you want, stack it with GABA.

 

[hyperCat]

For me, staples = fish oil, niacin, magnesium taurate, vitamin c and d, coq10, taurine and protein.

Herbs that I at least perceive do something, but nothing earth shattering = maca, testofen and fadogia

Other coumpounds that seem to work rather well for me: daa, i3c, agmatine, phenibut, and, of course, many of the hormonals.

 

[grngoloco]

I'm a big fan of competitive edge labs,,, they list each ingredient's quantity and concentration as well as being properly ratiod for the.most part,, I add in a.little of this and that to make up the difference.... only thing is, I know light and air are the biggest enemies to supplements,,, and I can't think of one single bb specific company that uses brown glass with metal lids like solgar does,, or even brown glass and hard plastic lids like twinlab does

 

[grngoloco]

For me, staples = fish oil, niacin, magnesium taurate, vitamin c and d, coq10, taurine and protein.

Herbs that I at least perceive do something, but nothing earth shattering = maca, testofen and fadogia

Other coumpounds that seem to work rather well for me: daa, i3c, agmatine, phenibut, and, of course, many of the hormonals.

You know one of the overall most powerful herbs rarely if ever mentioned on here is ginseng!!

 

[breezy11]

You ever try anything from Certa? They make these stuff called Mattress. Helps with sleep, it's awesome. If you want, stack it with GABA.

I've seen improved results when stacked with pillow. Sometimes 2...I'm pretty pillow tolerant.

 

[miniarnold]

Imo I believe if one has better than average genetics dosed with commitment effort and consistency in training and diet then no supplements are needed for success in physique building, aside from the use of protein powders to ensure adequate protein in diet and for convienience (even powders are not needed)
It can be those people with below average genetics who dont put all the pieces together to get success naturally, look for answers why and search for hopefull shortcutts and solutions via supplement use

 

[grngoloco]

An analogy I like is AASs make the car faster and stronger,,, everyday overall health vitamins and nutrients make the road smoother ....... a healthy body responds better to exercise and AASs

 

[Profion]

Just wonna say that your totally right!
But remember, some of the products are ment to be used by people who are running steroids or prohormones

also its always clever to read about the ingridience in products, problem is that some times they priority blends and dont tell how much, it could be a fraction and would not yield any results..

 

[grngoloco]

Just wonna say that your totally right!
But remember, some of the products are ment to be used by people who are running steroids or prohormones

also its always clever to read about the ingridience in products, problem is that some times they priority blends and dont tell how much, it could be a fraction and would not yield any results..

Proprietary blends are for the idiots

 

[rb624]

Great replies, folks. I thought for sure I'd be tarred and feathered and run out of town. I'm glad to see that not everyone is believing the hype. I think what really irked me about Erase Pro is that I saw a lot of reviews (here and elsewhere) about original Erase and a few reviews about Erase Pro. So many people were saying how they felt a surge of energy right off the bat. I was a little skeptical, especially since so many reviewers, and the co itself, were suggesting that you stack it (why do they always push a stack when they claim a product works in and of itself?), but I wanted to believe it worked. I wanted to take something that was non-stim and actually notice SOMETHING concrete.

I said to myself I'll give it 28 or 29 days, and then return the last pill or two to the retailer if I can't say for sure it worked. And that's exactly what I did. My workouts were actually better, but I have no reason to believe it was down to anything beyond a placebo effect. For instance, I ate better too. Did Erase Pro make me eat better? Of course not. It just gave me better focus for 28 days, because I wanted it to work. These products focus your attention because you're making an extra effort to see if they work. You have a little extra invested in training right and eating right, because you think you may have something that's going to help you to the next level. Then after the run, you sit back and wonder if the pill changed you or if you just changed yourself for the pill, hoping it would work.

I guess you can argue that I'm just being negative and automatically dismissing everything positive as placebo. Maybe that is a possibility. All I know is that users talked up Erase and Erase Pro like it was magic, and at the end of (now) 29 days, I am left uncertain whether it did anything for me at all. Much the same story after my Triazole run, although with that I also had a blood test to back up my doubt. Although I didn't get my levels tested beforehand, I tested them after 40 days of Triazole to find myself in the abnormally low range for total and free T. So if Triazole didn't necessarily hurt me, I sure as hell can't say it helped me.

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in on this topic. I appreciate the feedback.