Pre workout info

brundel said:
90% of the formula should be ready for testing in about 2 weeks.
Still need to work on flavoring and some other things but we are at full speed with testing. I have to test EVERY ingredient before we include it.
Click to expand...

If it's not to much to post to Aus, im stoked to do a log or help test anything out for you to make sure it's perfected. flavoring is always nice as long as it's drinkable haha, candy grape craze tasted like sh#t but i still downed it every day lol
 
I have a feeling we may have some issues with AU customs but we will see.
ALOT new ingredients or new forms of certain ingredients.
 
brundel said:
I have a feeling we may have some issues with AU customs but we will see.
ALOT new ingredients or new forms of certain ingredients.
Click to expand...

Usually all fine as long as its declared and not left blank or suspicious, as long as not using fed ex either usps is always gtg
 
Auslifter said:
If it's not to much to post to Aus, im stoked to do a log or help test anything out for you to make sure it's perfected. flavoring is always nice as long as it's drinkable haha, candy grape craze tasted like sh#t but i still downed it every day lol
Click to expand...

Same here. We can compare. Plus I can use it for crossfit to see how it holds up
 
Giving you guys an update

We're in great place right now with the pre workout.

I will say you guys are def in for a crazy treat. Nothing like it period.

Loving so far.
 
didnt brundel mention its only like 60% done?

i know ingredients arnt going to disclosed, but it would be interesting to see a little write up about what made you interested in choosing the ingredients that you did at some point.
 
It IS only approx 60% of the formula. IN fact hes testing only a portion of the 60%. More will be added today.
The goal is to test each ingredient. No point in adding something for nothing right?
So Im making sure each and every ingredient serves a purpose and packs a punch.

The writeup for the pre will be extensive. It will have to be.
We plan on using a couple of ingredients never used before plus some that you would not think would be in a pre so we will explain why we used each ingredient,
how it performed in testing, and what you can expect from it.

For example we are using a new type of vasodilator....well a new twist on known compounds. So far the results have been awesome. SERIOUS pump from it.
Ultimately the goal is to increase performance so once we have tested the ingredients we will test them combined to see specifically how they effect performance.
I also want you to know you took it so we are hoping to be able to use some novel stims.
 
I don't remember this being discussed but no y or any form of y correct? Pretty please lol
 
Afi140 said:
I don't remember this being discussed but no y or any form of y correct? Pretty please lol
Click to expand...

Assuming yohimbine, no. We are planning on potentially using a new stim. Nobody will have heard of it. But we need to test it well first. So...well see how that goes. Either way no yohimbine.
 
brundel said:
Assuming yohimbine, no. We are planning on potentially using a new stim. Nobody will have heard of it. But we need to test it well first. So...well see how that goes. Either way no yohimbine.
Click to expand...

nice, and it will mean i won't miss out to haha (or have to order it in discreetly
 
Auslifter said:
nice, and it will mean i won't miss out to haha (or have to order it in discreetly
Click to expand...

Im doing my best to make this product relatively unique.
No creatine
Beta a
Arg
citrulline
Yohimbine

I want there to not be a comparison to other products.
Also i want to introduce new things not follow old tired trends. So far testing is going well. I had expected possible blood pressure issues with one of the new ingredients and thankfully we havnt see it in any testers which is good.

Soon we will have a full beta version for public testing.

Also on a side note the oral ai is looking very strong. We might be able to go to production soon if everything goes well.
 
brundel said:
Im doing my best to make this product relatively unique.
No creatine
Beta a
Arg
citrulline
Yohimbine

I want there to not be a comparison to other products.
Also i want to introduce new things not follow old tired trends. So far testing is going well. I had expected possible blood pressure issues with one of the new ingredients and thankfully we havnt see it in any testers which is good.

Soon we will have a full beta version for public testing.

Also on a side note the oral ai is looking very strong. We might be able to go to production soon if everything goes well.
Click to expand...

yeah glad, most of those everyone has bulks of nowdays anyway, and i hate beta alanine. side note the meth is back lol. hope that stim you got is good haha. im sure craze v2 will be a bad blend with some controversial ingredient as a hidden substance. but im sure yours will out shine it with the ergogens + whatever stim you got. and not get banned after a year

Invalid Link Removed
 
brundel said:
Im doing my best to make this product relatively unique. No creatine Beta a Arg citrulline Yohimbine I want there to not be a comparison to other products. Also i want to introduce new things not follow old tired trends. So far testing is going well. I had expected possible blood pressure issues with one of the new ingredients and thankfully we havnt see it in any testers which is good. Soon we will have a full beta version for public testing. Also on a side note the oral ai is looking very strong. We might be able to go to production soon if everything goes well.
Click to expand...

Did you try the combination of ingredients without the vasodilator? Maybe that's what is keeping bp stable.
 
brundel said:
It IS only approx 60% of the formula. IN fact hes testing only a portion of the 60%. More will be added today.
The goal is to test each ingredient. No point in adding something for nothing right?
So Im making sure each and every ingredient serves a purpose and packs a punch.

The writeup for the pre will be extensive. It will have to be.
We plan on using a couple of ingredients never used before plus some that you would not think would be in a pre so we will explain why we used each ingredient,
how it performed in testing, and what you can expect from it.

For example we are using a new type of vasodilator....well a new twist on known compounds. So far the results have been awesome. SERIOUS pump from it.
Ultimately the goal is to increase performance so once we have tested the ingredients we will test them combined to see specifically how they effect performance.
I also want you to know you took it so we are hoping to be able to use some novel stims.
Click to expand...

i want to guess what you could be using but i know you wont answer lol. Pumps from certain less popular aminos? Not that theres a "right" answer, but are you doing something different to just simply do something different yet still effective, or do you believe the pathway youre using is more efficient?

Sometimes i question whether labels are loaded with all these different ingredients is even worth it. On paper using traditional NO pathways, it seems to make sense, but at the same time are we missing some practical aspects of using supplements. is dosing all these different popular aminos/pump products complimentary, What about aminos fighting for absorption ya know, are we throwing a bunch into the mix like a dirty alcoholic beverage for no reason other than knowing youre going to get drunk from something.

i am essentially rambling, but wondering if any of that makes sense, or if anything similar has crossed your mind when developing this.
 
brundel said:
Im doing my best to make this product relatively unique.
No creatine
Beta a
Arg
citrulline
Yohimbine

I want there to not be a comparison to other products.
Also i want to introduce new things not follow old tired trends. So far testing is going well. I had expected possible blood pressure issues with one of the new ingredients and thankfully we havnt see it in any testers which is good.

Soon we will have a full beta version for public testing.

Also on a side note the oral ai is looking very strong. We might be able to go to production soon if everything goes well.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Literally every pre contains those these days.

Excited to see what follows!!
 
squirtguns89 said:
i want to guess what you could be using but i know you wont answer lol. Pumps from certain less popular aminos? Not that theres a "right" answer, but are you doing something different to just simply do something different yet still effective, or do you believe the pathway youre using is more efficient?

Sometimes i question whether labels are loaded with all these different ingredients is even worth it. On paper using traditional NO pathways, it seems to make sense, but at the same time are we missing some practical aspects of using supplements. is dosing all these different popular aminos/pump products complimentary, What about aminos fighting for absorption ya know, are we throwing a bunch into the mix like a dirty alcoholic beverage for no reason other than knowing youre going to get drunk from something.

i am essentially rambling, but wondering if any of that makes sense, or if anything similar has crossed your mind when developing this.
Click to expand...

Most use differing pathways or work on seperate enzymes to compliment rather than contradict. But we need something new
 
Jiigzz said:
Most use differing pathways or work on seperate enzymes to compliment rather than contradict. But we need something new
Click to expand...

in theory. How many studies has there been done on exercise performance combining multiple different pump products. how do we know combining different aminos in our pre + drinking bcaas/eaas isnt going to be conflict with amino acid uptake causing diminishing returns? what benefit is there from all these products containing gms, flooding extra and intra musclular water retention when you want most of it intra muscular do you not?

this isnt meant to be contradictory, merely opening up discussion. I think by and large, theres a large discrepancy of knowledge in the supplement industry between the top and the consumers. im naturally skeptical if what companies are selling are because it is optimal, or because it is what they know will sell the best without sacrificing decent results.
 
squirtguns89 said:
in theory. How many studies has there been done on exercise performance combining multiple different pump products. how do we know combining different aminos in our pre + drinking bcaas/eaas isnt going to be conflict with amino acid uptake causing diminishing returns? what benefit is there from all these products containing gms, flooding extra and intra musclular water retention when you want most of it intra muscular do you not?

this isnt meant to be contradictory, merely opening up discussion. I think by and large, theres a large discrepancy of knowledge in the supplement industry between the top and the consumers. im naturally skeptical if what companies are selling are because it is optimal, or because it is what they know will sell the best without sacrificing decent results.
Click to expand...

You dont need a specific training study to understand pathways in which things work or the transporters they use to shuttle through to where they are needed. Its not in theory; these things have been well studied in people.

Exercise wont change the transporters, only make the environment either more or less receptive/ move the transports or activate receptors/ release enzymes etc

You can read more on examine if you like. It goes into a lot of depth and in the biochemistry.

In any case, I wont derail further :D

Im just excited for new stuff
 
Jiigzz said:
You dont need a specific training study to understand pathways in which things work or the transporters they use to shuttle through to where they are needed. Its not in theory; these things have been well studied in people.

Exercise wont change the transporters, only make the environment either more or less receptive.

You can read more on examine if you like. It goes into a lot of depth and in the boochemistry
Click to expand...

im quite familiar with examine and im not sure how that applies to what im saying. and although im not a self proclaimed scientist, but certain aminos inhibit absorption, certain ones slow eachothers absorption do they not. and the general fact that just because you throw in 10 different ingredients, doesnt mean you will optimally digest them all.

Perhaps this is redundant to worry about ill fully acknowledge that possibility, but i dont think saying its irrelevant because everything gets shuttled/end of story, is the whole picture, well perhaps it is if all you care about is a pump, such as the gms fans, something im failing to see how it is genuinely beneficial without a strong stretching of technical wordplay.

edit: and plus my post isnt about whether or not these things work, sure most evidence as you pointed out will show these things work to some extent, im saying is it optimal. examine nor anything in your post says anything refuting that.
 
Auslifter said:
yeah glad, most of those everyone has bulks of nowdays anyway, and i hate beta alanine. side note the meth is back lol. hope that stim you got is good haha. im sure craze v2 will be a bad blend with some controversial ingredient as a hidden substance. but im sure yours will out shine it with the ergogens + whatever stim you got. and not get banned after a year

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...



Meth before training?
Not even once.
 
todd muelheim said:
Did you try the combination of ingredients without the vasodilator? Maybe that's what is keeping bp stable.
Click to expand...

It is possible. We will likely test it solo just to be certain. So long as it doesnt cause a giant BP spike Im happy.
 
squirtguns89 said:
i want to guess what you could be using but i know you wont answer lol. Pumps from certain less popular aminos? Not that theres a "right" answer, but are you doing something different to just simply do something different yet still effective, or do you believe the pathway youre using is more efficient?

Sometimes i question whether labels are loaded with all these different ingredients is even worth it. On paper using traditional NO pathways, it seems to make sense, but at the same time are we missing some practical aspects of using supplements. is dosing all these different popular aminos/pump products complimentary, What about aminos fighting for absorption ya know, are we throwing a bunch into the mix like a dirty alcoholic beverage for no reason other than knowing youre going to get drunk from something.

i am essentially rambling, but wondering if any of that makes sense, or if anything similar has crossed your mind when developing this.
Click to expand...

The pump is not from an amino or protein. Not arg or cit or agm.
Sometimes youll see 30 ingredients in a pre or any product...then its a 2 cap or 5g scoop. Where is it all?
Its in there in trace amounts so you see it on the label but its basically worthless.
Like adding 1g citrulline or 1-2g creatine etc. WHats the point. Is the user supposed to go buy several other products to supplement the pre? Is this a joke?
My thought is dump all that and use things that really crank up performance. Well see how things go in testing. We are def not just throwing a bunch of stuff together though. Every single ingredient has a purpose and is included at the proper dose.
 
Jiigzz said:
Thank you. Literally every pre contains those these days.

Excited to see what follows!!
Click to expand...

Im not saying creatine doesnt have its place.
Im not saying citrulline isnt decent stuff.

Im saying its in every single product on earth, often in lower than required doses.
Why buy ours if its the same as everything else? I dont understand the theory behind this. I understand why people clone things like Follidrone because its new and different and selling well and nobody else has it. But why copy a product that there are already 1000000000 copies of lol. I dont understand.
I think maybe alot of companies dont have the capacity to do R&D. So..they just put out whatever they see other companies doing that looks like its selling well.
It really stagnates the industry though.

The current version we are testing has 3 ingredients never before used in a supplement. This list will likely grow before we are done including (i hope) a new type of stim. Exotic, exciting...plant based so not 100% synthetic.


Also we are going to be starting testing on a new type of anabolic in about 2 weeks. Cant wait to see how this pans out.
It would be awesome to be able to give you guys something new. On paper it looks solid.
Its not a test booster or steroid or epi.
Nobody has ever done this before so its exciting just for that alone. Maybe 2 weeks testers will be trying it.
 
I think for us the deal is we are not going to add a bunch of things just because they are on other companies labels.
I dumped the whole thing and started from scratch assuming no previous knowledge of other companies formulas.
In doing this I approached from a totally different angle. THere are new twists and turns.
So far there are 0 aminos or proteins in our formula and I dont have plans for any.

You will see some surprising things and some not so much.
Some known and some alien.
Some contradictory to current ingredients ...almost an antagonist compared to current pre ingredients.
One thing I know for sure. So far its testing strong and its only partial. The full version is gonna be an ass kicker.
 
brundel said:
Im not saying creatine doesnt have its place.
Im not saying citrulline isnt decent stuff.

Im saying its in every single product on earth, often in lower than required doses.
Why buy ours if its the same as everything else? I dont understand the theory behind this. I understand why people clone things like Follidrone because its new and different and selling well and nobody else has it. But why copy a product that there are already 1000000000 copies of lol. I dont understand.
I think maybe alot of companies dont have the capacity to do R&D. So..they just put out whatever they see other companies doing that looks like its selling well.
It really stagnates the industry though.

The current version we are testing has 3 ingredients never before used in a supplement. This list will likely grow before we are done including (i hope) a new type of stim. Exotic, exciting...plant based so not 100% synthetic.


Also we are going to be starting testing on a new type of anabolic in about 2 weeks. Cant wait to see how this pans out.
It would be awesome to be able to give you guys something new. On paper it looks solid.
Its not a test booster or steroid or epi.
Nobody has ever done this before so its exciting just for that alone. Maybe 2 weeks testers will be trying it.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. There are so many Cit mal/ Citrulline/ Agmatine based products that standing out is hard (most have betaine, Creatine and BA as well).

So I'm looking forward to something new and refreshing and will buy on that alone.
 
brundel said:
Knowing that these guys have pretty much spiked all of their products with illegal narcotics, some untested in humans, I would steer clear.
You could literally die from taking something like this. There is a reason these versions are not sold in the US only UK. Because the US has already got them in the crosshairs.


Meth before training?
Not even once.
Click to expand...

i don't know what they put inside frenzy (the one that's not sold in US) but, it's very hit or miss. once you gain tolerance to that its worthless, and did 2 scoops once the crash is fkd and NMT (N-methly-tyramine) that tangerine extract, makes you feel like utter ****, you legit feel like your on drugs walking around in the gym lol and it makes you feel worried to train harder or push it kind of, yet your strength is still good which is weird, but you have virtually no focus and energy comes and goes, overall it's nothing special.

and i agree, which is why Im fingers crossed i can try some of your pre and PES's new pre soon that way im using company's i trust haven't loaded me full of amphetamine analogs lol
 
You have my word nothing harmful or illegal will be in there.
The quality control on the PRE is going to be super strict. We bought all the hardware to run it ourselves. So I dont have to think about wait times on manufacturing. We just run it at the lab. You would be surprised how expensive mixers are lol. Or I was anyways.
 
Auslifter said:
i don't know what they put inside frenzy (the one that's not sold in US) but, it's very hit or miss. once you gain tolerance to that its worthless, and did 2 scoops once the crash is fkd and NMT (N-methly-tyramine) that tangerine extract, makes you feel like utter ****, you legit feel like your on drugs walking around in the gym lol and it makes you feel worried to train harder or push it kind of, yet your strength is still good which is weird, but you have virtually no focus and energy comes and goes, overall it's nothing special.

and i agree, which is why Im fingers crossed i can try some of your pre and PES's new pre soon that way im using company's i trust haven't loaded me full of amphetamine analogs lol
Click to expand...

NMT, not even once since i tried Ergoshred years ago. Yuck
 
NoAddedHmones said:
NMT, not even once since i tried Ergoshred years ago. Yuck
Click to expand...

it made me super downer for some reason and extremely hungry, googled it to figure out why and found it increases gastrin which stimulates appetite, so combine your frenzy crash (AMP Citrate) after a high volume sesh, with depression feels and hunger lol on cutting macros makes it a horrid idea for cutting. seemed like a perfect pre use during a cut to help keep strength and maintain intensity but, it's far from it. I won't be getting the new alphamine either until i see positive feedback cause i don't wan't those feels again lol i will probably avoid all NMT products from now on.
 
Im gonna do my best to make sure this is feel good stuff.
If you feel like ish after you take it why would you continue to buy it?
 
brundel said:
Im gonna do my best to make sure this is feel good stuff.
If you feel like ish after you take it why would you continue to buy it?
Click to expand...

you only feel like **** once the workouts over and the amp crash sets in. it's very hit or miss, they basically tried to make a craze replacement out of synethic amp and nmt lol which dosen't do **** all after a weeks use, at first it feels good but continuous use is what makes you feel like ****, and it only gets worse the longer you keep using lol, which is why it's only good a few times a month IMO. but even then hell knows whats else could be in it so not worth buying, which is why i won't be.

quote from an article about NMT

It also has a short half-life, and it must pass through a conversion step in body before it causes the release of noradrenaline. N-methyltyramine breaks down to octopamine, an inactive analogue of noradrenaline. Octopamine is packaged in the synaptic vesicles in place of noradrenaline, reducing the amount of this excitatory neurotransmitter that is released, therefore heavy, frequent dosage with N-methyltyramine may cause a decrease in the normal noradrenaline response.
Click to expand...
 
brundel said:
The pump is not from an amino or protein. Not arg or cit or agm.
Sometimes youll see 30 ingredients in a pre or any product...then its a 2 cap or 5g scoop. Where is it all?
Its in there in trace amounts so you see it on the label but its basically worthless.
Like adding 1g citrulline or 1-2g creatine etc. WHats the point. Is the user supposed to go buy several other products to supplement the pre? Is this a joke?
My thought is dump all that and use things that really crank up performance. Well see how things go in testing. We are def not just throwing a bunch of stuff together though. Every single ingredient has a purpose and is included at the proper dose.
Click to expand...

interesting stuff. Im not trying to set you up to bash traditional products and not implying you agree but I really dont think some of these formulas makes sense, and think its cool youre doing something different. a lot of attention goes towards acute pumps, and less on overall benefits. but admittedly, perhaps im just not a huge fan of the pump category in general. it will be interesting to see how you balance this out, especially with no forms of aminos.
 
I look at it like this. Say you get a pump while your training and it doesnt = anything but that. Just a pump.
If this is the case your not gaining anything. Nothing except for a pump while training.
What I want is something that improves performance. You train harder and longer and stronger so you gain more muscle or lose more fat or reach whatever goal you have more efficiently. This is what a pre should do. Improve performance...IMHO.

Youll get a pump from it but it is secondary. The goal of the ingredients that will give you the pump is to open the capillaries so more oxygen rich blood gets to the muscles. Sure youll get a wicked pump but blood flow is the goal.
There are things that cause pump that dont promote blood flow.
 
Is this going to be a one scoop preworkout? That is, one scoop will provide the full effective dose for each ingredient. Also, how many servings per tub?
 
looks like you shouldn't have any trouble selling your pre this year, craze v2 turned out to be a flop. i ordered 1 tub to give a review encase it would be good but as i predicted they would be dumb to spike it again. going to sell my tub once it arrives on ebay here for a profit lol. will be saving for something i can count on instead haha

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

obvious money grab iv obvious
 
Hockeyaus33 said:
Is this going to be a one scoop preworkout? That is, one scoop will provide the full effective dose for each ingredient. Also, how many servings per tub?
Click to expand...

Yes one scoop. I never understood why you need 3 of most pre workout supps. Well...i know why...money. if you go through it 3x faster a company makes 3x more off you. Shady...scammy.
Ours will be one scoop.
If its too strong you can start lower and titrate up but every ingredient will be in there at the dose needed for full effect. Nothing in there for fluff. Like when companies use 1g creatine...for example. Just leave it out cause its worthless anyways.

Also while there will be stims in it we are not designing around the stim.
We are testing it without the stim so we know it works well without it.
We are testing some cool new stuff as well. A new type of vasodilator for example. The product will also have effects not common in todays products. Unique. Strong. Effective at 1 scoop.
Working very hard to get this ready for you guys.

2 new products coming within a month.
3 more in testing.
 
Auslifter said:
looks like you shouldn't have any trouble selling your pre this year, craze v2 turned out to be a flop. i ordered 1 tub to give a review encase it would be good but as i predicted they would be dumb to spike it again. going to sell my tub once it arrives on ebay here for a profit lol. will be saving for something i can count on instead haha

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

obvious money grab iv obvious
Click to expand...

Without the stim its just not a really phenom formula. Im surprised they didnt reformulate. Good for me though lol.
 
brundel said:
Without the stim its just not a really phenom formula. Im surprised they didnt reformulate. Good for me though lol.
Click to expand...

exactly. i can tell how it will be, the formula on its own is pretty poor, underdosed and without the stims i can tell it will cashing in on the "focus" aspect the old craze had with basic nootropics and some L-Dopa lol with mild energy that's nothing special that dosen't even come close to the hidden stimulant while they keep selling frenzy as there "energy" pre with the synthetic amp citrate (dmba) outside of the US.
 
Auslifter said:
exactly. i can tell how it will be, the formula on its own is pretty poor, underdosed and without the stims i can tell it will cashing in on the "focus" aspect the old craze had with basic nootropics and some L-Dopa lol with mild energy that's nothing special that dosen't even come close to the hidden stimulant while they keep selling frenzy as there "energy" pre with the synthetic amp citrate (dmba) outside of the US.
Click to expand...

Just want to ask.....how, if there is a 4.75g scoop, does it have creatine, citrulline, tmg, ldopa and a handful of other ingredients in viable doses?
All require multi grsm dosing. 5g is a good dose for cre mono and there isnt even 5g total product... smh.
 
brundel said:
Just want to ask.....how, if there is a 4.75g scoop, does it have creatine, citrulline, tmg, ldopa and a handful of other ingredients in viable doses?
All require multi grsm dosing. 5g is a good dose for cre mono and there isnt even 5g total product... smh.
Click to expand...

exactly its a money grab, cause they know everyone will buy into the hype. only informed consumers will understand that it's underdosed, i bought it knowing it would probably be crap, only wanted to see if it was spiked lol but seeing reviews i dun goofed. still got ergonine which i planned to use with it to replace the underdosed ergogens and use it for the stims only.
 
Auslifter said:
exactly its a money grab, cause they know everyone will buy into the hype. only informed consumers will understand that it's underdosed, i bought it knowing it would probably be crap, only wanted to see if it was spiked lol but seeing reviews i dun goofed. still got ergonine which i planned to use with it to replace the underdosed ergogens and use it for the stims only.
Click to expand...

aside from my high horse opinion about supporting crappy companies. in regards to hoping he spikes the products.. have you read about him at all, do you believe hes at all qualified to assess whats ok for your health?
 
squirtguns89 said:
aside from my high horse opinion about supporting crappy companies. in regards to hoping he spikes the products.. have you read about him at all, do you believe hes at all qualified to assess whats ok for your health?
Click to expand...

no not at all. i was just hoping he would push his luck again and bring back the eth under a new product lol. not to mention theres another fat burner they have coming called "super stim" which if craze v2 isn't this could be.
 
Auslifter said:
no not at all. i was just hoping he would push his luck again and bring back the eth under a new product lol. not to mention theres another fat burner they have coming called "super stim" which if craze v2 isn't this could be.
Click to expand...

fair enough. id rather die from taking things to be jacked, than from a sketchy stim but im not going to judge based on those merits lol. of course, not implying you will croak early, certainly i hope i wont either haha.


anyways. in4 more info on soon to be released products. not a huge fan of transdermals, too paranoid with having a kid around but im interested in learning more about different things none the less.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top