abformulations
Legend
Let's get it rolling Brundel lol. Any info on this? 
Pre workout info
- Thread starter abformulations
- Start date
abformulations
Legend
I was told it's going to be something very different. Can't wait to see the writeup and ingredient panel
wolfpack893
Member
Any update on the preworkout Brundel?
abformulations
Legend
He has some stuff up his sleeve. I for one know a few but can't mention. Def something different than what's out there
brundel
Board Sponsor
Sorry I didnt see this.
OK....so for obvious reasons I cant divulge the ingredient profile. I cant risk it being cloned before release and well its not even close to finalized.
1. My approach is very different from the normal approach taken by most companies currently.
2. I wont release it unless I firmly believe it is superior to products currently available. I dont EVER want to be a company that just replicates others products.
3. The current incarnation is very interesting. It has several, multi ingredient components each with a specific role to play.
4. So far there is no- creatine, beta a, arginine, caffeine, ampc. So...since this<< is pretty much standard we are forging a new path.
5. As such....its taking alot longer than expected in R&D. This is because we are using new science, novel ingredients and combinations and as you guys know I dont just slap a product together because I read some abstract or because someone else has it in their product. I extensively test each ingredient solo and in concert with the particular component combo as well as the entire blend. This takes time but its worth it IMHO. I want you guys to be excited to take it.
6. When this comes out itll set a new standard. If it wont...Ill can the project.
OK....so for obvious reasons I cant divulge the ingredient profile. I cant risk it being cloned before release and well its not even close to finalized.
1. My approach is very different from the normal approach taken by most companies currently.
2. I wont release it unless I firmly believe it is superior to products currently available. I dont EVER want to be a company that just replicates others products.
3. The current incarnation is very interesting. It has several, multi ingredient components each with a specific role to play.
4. So far there is no- creatine, beta a, arginine, caffeine, ampc. So...since this<< is pretty much standard we are forging a new path.
5. As such....its taking alot longer than expected in R&D. This is because we are using new science, novel ingredients and combinations and as you guys know I dont just slap a product together because I read some abstract or because someone else has it in their product. I extensively test each ingredient solo and in concert with the particular component combo as well as the entire blend. This takes time but its worth it IMHO. I want you guys to be excited to take it.
6. When this comes out itll set a new standard. If it wont...Ill can the project.
wolfpack893
Member
No worries I know you're a busy guy haha. Definitely excited for a stim free preworkout because I often workout late in evening thanks to school and work. And I do much prefer innovative products rather than the run of the mill supps so I don't mind waiting. Keep up the good work bud
wolfpack893
Member
Sorry I mean caffeine free. Which is nice so I can decide how much if any to add to it.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Caffeine is like 5$ a kilo or something like that. So if people want it they can buy in bulk. What I want to offer is something that you normally won't find. I'm working on a new Stim but it's hard to find new stims these days. I have some tricks up my sleeve though.
ahh123
Active member
Will this pre workout come in form of a powder or capsules?
If it will be in form of a powder could it be free of food color dyes like FD&C blue, red... cause this dyes are all found to be "potentially toxic" which is the reason I'm opening capsules and not swallow them daily?
I know most will say amount of this dyes are small but think of people swallowing 10 capsules or more daily and in a year that's over 3,000 capsules swallowed each containing this harmful additives and it adds up.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Im not sure. I can tell you that it will likely taste Fn horrible.
Even if we try to mask it. THere are alot of ingredients. Some of which are very bitter or sour or just downright unpleasant.
So...we can make it a powder but itll take ALOT of sucralose or something to mask the taste.
I wouldnt add a dye unless it was absolutely necessary. With capsules people just cont like clear caps so....you get titanium dioxide or other dyes.
Even if we try to mask it. THere are alot of ingredients. Some of which are very bitter or sour or just downright unpleasant.
So...we can make it a powder but itll take ALOT of sucralose or something to mask the taste.
I wouldnt add a dye unless it was absolutely necessary. With capsules people just cont like clear caps so....you get titanium dioxide or other dyes.
ahh123
Active member
Don't see why people would care about colour of capsules if it's more healthier option for them.
Some natural brands even advertise their capsules to be all vegan and kosher and not containing any food dyes.
It's weird that same people that look for healthier lifestyle and fit body would prefer coloured capsules that contain toxic dyes hmm.
But OK what ever you decide it's OK - I for last 2 years open all capsules and don't care how ingredients taste but that product works.
I even open Incinderine capsules that taste bitter.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Im working on it. Again new stims are VERY hard to find. Testing one this weekend.
From a rare plant. Looks very promising its just hard to source.
If the stuff works though we will work on sourcing until I find it.
Even if I have to fly to the country of origin and source it myself.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Ill certainly consider it.
ELROCK
Well-known member
I thought the PWO you are working on was geared more toward an ergogenic (strength & endurance) boost? Or is it going to be a stim heavy PWO like the garbage Craze product others are mentioning?
Auslifter
Well-known member
lol no ergogen would out perform craze, because it contained an illegal stim. it dosen't get much better than stims for performance, and strength. i would buy craze over anything sold right now just because it worked. "oh its bad for you" "meth/10" pls go
abformulations
Legend
Ima try that tomm ;-) haven't had the chance. The past two weeks have been sh!ty kids were very sick. Smh
ELROCK
Well-known member
LOL at no ergogenic would out perform Craze. That sh1t just leaves me feeling cracked out and actually hurt my performance on a number of occasions. Give me -epi, Amentoflavone, creatine, CM, COP, agmatine & beta alanine and your cracked out Craze wouldn't come close to providing the strength & endurance boost.
brundel
Board Sponsor
It will NOT be just a stim package.
THere are 5 components currently each with a few ingredients. They work together to form one amazing product.
I cant tell you more because Now more than ever companies will be scratching for new products to steal formulations. This is because the anabolic steroid act passed congress so.....lots of DS/PH companies will be going under unless they learn to formulate real legal supps.
I formulated the PWO after something specific. When you see youll understand why for sure. Not sure why EVERYONE doesnt do this already.
But oh well.
This will outperform a stim pack for sure because it will be more than that.
Halfhuman is helping me test one potential option. We have to go slow in testing but I think Im on to something.
This is only 1 of 3 potential new or mostly unused stim options.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Everyone liked craze but it was a meth analogue. IM not gonna scold people about taking things like that but I will say that I wont use such things because its HIGHLY illegal. I cant afford the law suits and jail time and negative branding. Just not worth it. Some companies make their money doing pretty much illegal ****. Im not looking to be one of them. I think we can make something with a big enough hit though. Stay tuned. Im working hard on this.
One thing I can promise. You wont be disappointed.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Take your time with it brother. Let me know how things go each time you try it.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Endurance.x10
Pump.x10
Strength-x5 normal probably for a PWO. Its not intended to increase strength. No PWO is really.
Focus-10
Again I cant say much because it will reveal too much of the plan.
We will be testing alpha batches soon. Ill likely send some off to AM guys to try as we work on formulation.
This takes alot of time because we have to try different combos to see what works best.
Im hoping for early 2015.
Looks like we will have another natty anabolic within 60 days.
Auslifter
Well-known member
if you ever need a beta tester il play guinea pig for this. plus im sick of frenzy/ (amp citrate) all pre's atm. surprisingly haven't gained tolerance at all to it for 8 weeks straight use now. but gradually it's gotten less effective but was never that amazing. i miss being able to lift for like 4 hours straight with tunnel vision lol wanting to do every exercise i felt like for which ever bodypart i was doing.
I have tried everything you just listed pre workout. and more. all of them don't out perform craze lol. infact have used it with all of those to. but just saying everyone responds differently, i personally always got the most out of it even at 1 scoop and 45 serves made it very cost effective for what i got from it. and all those ergogens are not going beat it cost wise in the long term.
squirtguns89
Member
bumping to see if theres any news on how the pre is coming along BLR folks.
also, might as well take a shot at part of the novel stim blend, my guess: a form of kratom strain/alkaloid.
how did i do?
inb4 wrong.
inb4 wouldnt say even if i wasnt wrong.
also, might as well take a shot at part of the novel stim blend, my guess: a form of kratom strain/alkaloid.
how did i do?
inb4 wrong.
inb4 wouldnt say even if i wasnt wrong.
brundel
Board Sponsor
We have 5 products in testing so we will be needing testers.
The Pre has more than one new ingredient that nobody has ever used. This takes alot of testing to be certain it does what we want.
So we will be testing in phases.
Say we have components
1
2
3
4
5
We will test each solo for effect, strength and to assess dose requirements.
Then we will combine and test as one.
Understand that we will not be able to tell testers what they are taking.
With regards to stimulants we are still uncertain which direction we are going to go. Testing several things.
The goal is not to make it like a meth analogue (craze)
The goal is to give you the absolute best increase in performance possible.
Ive tried several things. Keep in mind that many stimulants are vasoconstrictors which are the opposite of what we want in a pre workout supp. Companies include them because people like the stimulant feeling and well if your all cracked out you may train harder, however, this is not necessarily good because it restricts nutrient and hormone delivery as well as oxygen.
Also as a side note our PWO is also anabolic
We have a novel ingredient (EVERYONE is going to be surprised at this one)
brundel
Board Sponsor
Im working on it hard everyday. One of the ingredients I want to use is very rare and may take months to make or we have to make a derivative because the stuff is 100000$ a kg lol. Literally.
We can make a derivative but its gonna take some time, or, I have to go another route. Working on it.
We are not using anything related to kratom
Afi140
Legend
just source itIm working on it hard everyday. One of the ingredients I want to use is very rare and may take months to make or we have to make a derivative because the stuff is 100000$ a kg lol. Literally. We can make a derivative but its gonna take some time, or, I have to go another route. Working on it. We are not using anything related to kratom
lol. Usplabs and ds made hand over fist once their pres took off. No but in all honesty I hope you guys get one out and I hope it's like nothing else out there.
brundel
Board Sponsor
just source it
If you look around youll notice preworkout supps are pretty much all the same. Not much change in many years. Its basically about who can put the strongest stimulant drug in their product. Then there are all these new questionable stimulants that china is pushing. Ultimately we need a change. My opinion is companies should be focused on how to improve performance not the best way to get you high. I know people like things like that but frankly who wouldnt like the feeling of a narcotic stimulant. Most do hence all the drug addicts worldwide.
Im trying to take a new approach to an old problem.
Trying to look at it from a different angle and as a result create something that is not only unique and fresh but also will be far superior to anything else created thus far.
Auslifter
Well-known member
We have 5 products in testing so we will be needing testers.
The Pre has more than one new ingredient that nobody has ever used. This takes alot of testing to be certain it does what we want.
So we will be testing in phases.
Say we have components
1
2
3
4
5
We will test each solo for effect, strength and to assess dose requirements.
Then we will combine and test as one.
Understand that we will not be able to tell testers what they are taking.
With regards to stimulants we are still uncertain which direction we are going to go. Testing several things.
The goal is not to make it like a meth analogue (craze)
The goal is to give you the absolute best increase in performance possible.
Ive tried several things. Keep in mind that many stimulants are vasoconstrictors which are the opposite of what we want in a pre workout supp. Companies include them because people like the stimulant feeling and well if your all cracked out you may train harder, however, this is not necessarily good because it restricts nutrient and hormone delivery as well as oxygen.
Also as a side note our PWO is also anabolic
Im really excited. performance and energy and how you feel is all that matters in a pre, i for sure don't want to feel cracked out, the way i felt on craze was more like hyper euphoric type energy to where every set i wanted to fist pump after and break a PR. and it had the focus to it. not like a huge energy rush of big dose of caffeine and 1,3 dmma or yohimbine where the energy was dirty to the point you couldn't focus and you ended up just doing everything in a rush without any control or thought to it.
but i would love to help provide as much feedback on your pre as i can, and help perfect it. i enjoy and love using them and im actually glad craze is gone just because i have now been off it for so long, along with everything else, that now i can train fine with nothing at all and just food. but i never did take them before to rely on, just became a habit lol. so hopefully what you have will fit the bill for me and be sustainable for long term use (with breaks in moderation), and be something i can know everything it will WORK and not have to take having doubts it will have some mild run of the mill energy, or focus to where it's nothing exciting or getting your mindset on that next level along with allowing you to train on another level than if you had not taken one. which is what i will be looking for if i do test it
Afi140
Legend
I agree. I would love to see something totally new (As long as it still packs a nice punch) and I look forward to the updates
squirtguns89
Member
Im working on it hard everyday. One of the ingredients I want to use is very rare and may take months to make or we have to make a derivative because the stuff is 100000$ a kg lol. Literally.
We can make a derivative but its gonna take some time, or, I have to go another route. Working on it.
We are not using anything related to kratom
thats insane. brb 100 dollar a month pre workout, lol i imagine it would be a micro dose to limit costs. i wont be buying any pres for a couple months anyways so im not rushing, just keen on tid bits you care to share since youre trying to do something different. was reading about people taking different strains of kratom pre and made me think of some off the wall schit you might put into it. have you have messed around with white vein kratom or any of the more stimulating ones?
also as far as vaso restricters, isnt that balanced out somewhat with the addition of vasodialators like citrulline, nitrates ect? but i suppose your intention is more to maximize performance rather than balancing out one with another.
would love to be a tester on your pre, but im so carb depleted right now, i wouldnt be able to give a fair assessment on endurance/pumps.
jimbuick
Legend
We have 5 products in testing so we will be needing testers.
The Pre has more than one new ingredient that nobody has ever used. This takes alot of testing to be certain it does what we want.
So we will be testing in phases.
Say we have components
1
2
3
4
5
We will test each solo for effect, strength and to assess dose requirements.
Then we will combine and test as one.
Understand that we will not be able to tell testers what they are taking.
With regards to stimulants we are still uncertain which direction we are going to go. Testing several things.
The goal is not to make it like a meth analogue (craze)
The goal is to give you the absolute best increase in performance possible.
Ive tried several things. Keep in mind that many stimulants are vasoconstrictors which are the opposite of what we want in a pre workout supp. Companies include them because people like the stimulant feeling and well if your all cracked out you may train harder, however, this is not necessarily good because it restricts nutrient and hormone delivery as well as oxygen.
Also as a side note our PWO is also anabolic
Referring to what stimulants, exactly?
Are the ones you're referring vasoconstrictors in all tissues, or only certain tissues? Because that makes a huge difference.
I know caffeine is both a vasodilator and vasoconstrictor, depending on which tissues you're talking about.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Right whats the point of taking a vasodilator to make you normal
The goal is to have abnormally wide blood vessels in order to shuttle more blood/oxygen and nutrients to the muscles.
If I can get away with it I wont use anything that constricts the blood vessels but Im not sure if this is possible because everyone wants a stim feeling.
Working on alternatives. We will see.
I cant say how or what but there are other ways.
The goal is to have abnormally wide blood vessels in order to shuttle more blood/oxygen and nutrients to the muscles.
If I can get away with it I wont use anything that constricts the blood vessels but Im not sure if this is possible because everyone wants a stim feeling.
Working on alternatives. We will see.
I cant say how or what but there are other ways.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Caffeine will be in the pre but not necessarily as a stimulant or not for that purpose. (more on that later)
Caffeine does constrict blood flow to the brain but this can be reduced with the addition of another ingredient.
Id like to see studies on how AMP, norcoclaurine etc etc effect blood flow.
"Caffeine is a commonly used neurostimulant that also produces cerebral vasoconstriction by antagonizing adenosine receptors"
Invalid Link Removed
jimbuick
Legend
I am aware.
"Caffeine is a xanthine with various effects and mechanisms of action in vascular tissue. In endothelial cells, it increases intracellular calcium stimulating the production of nitric oxide through the expression of the endothelial nitric oxide synthase enzyme. Nitric oxide is diffused to the vascular smooth muscle cell to produce vasodilation. In vascular smooth muscle cells its effect is predominantly a competitive inhibition of phosphodiesterase, producing an accumulation of cAMP and vasodilation"
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"Caffeine is a xanthine with various effects and mechanisms of action in vascular tissue. In endothelial cells, it increases intracellular calcium stimulating the production of nitric oxide through the expression of the endothelial nitric oxide synthase enzyme. Nitric oxide is diffused to the vascular smooth muscle cell to produce vasodilation. In vascular smooth muscle cells its effect is predominantly a competitive inhibition of phosphodiesterase, producing an accumulation of cAMP and vasodilation"
Invalid Link Removed
Miss Q
Active member
White Vein, Green Vein and Maeng-Da Kratom strains all work great in conjunction with a pre-workout or alone. Good stuff!
digitalducki
Well-known member
Waiting for the "help us name" thread. I want to win one of those lol
rosemont83
Active member
Super excited for this. I keep logging in to check on the status of your pre brundel!
I haven't had a preworkout blow me away since the original jack3d and even that fizzled off after a little bit.
Right now I've only average pre workouts.. Hoping that this new, different, preworkout will have what I've been wanting. Sounds more than promising.
I haven't had a preworkout blow me away since the original jack3d and even that fizzled off after a little bit.
Right now I've only average pre workouts.. Hoping that this new, different, preworkout will have what I've been wanting. Sounds more than promising.
brundel
Board Sponsor
You have my word this will be the best pre in existance. Period.
It change the way companies formulate pres.
Auslifter
Well-known member
how do you think tolerance will be, as long as its good for 6-8 weeks before a soild break would be alright. amp citrate pre's die after 2-4 days lol
brundel
Board Sponsor
For certain this product will get progressively stronger and more effective over time. Acute effects but also effects that take a few days to a week or so to start really working st max capacity. This is again not like any other pre. Different ingredients, different goals. No amp.
It will be mildly anabolic and i would throw it in the ring with anything as a performance enhancer.
Its not just stims.
Its not modeled after anyone elses product.
It has a different moa than anything else.
A whole new bag brother and one thing i know...consumers will love it and competitors are gonna hate it...or try to clone it.
Either way this will be the top dog pre is my honest assessment.
Auslifter
Well-known member
awesome sounds innovative, glad to see something targeting pre's from a new angle. always wanted a product that you could run consistently with gradual improved effects even if it still has to be cycled that would be great unlike other where it gradually declines over time even after 5 days or so, i could think of it being like a week or so of epic stim + performance, then the weeks after less stim > but more strength and endurance build up coming via the other ingredients, then increase your dose slightly to keep the main stimulant working well, even at 3-4 days use per week then take your stim break as usual.
brundel
Board Sponsor
Man I wish I could just tell you everything.....
This is the culmination of years of work in this product.
I gave 2 of 13 ingredients to testers recently and they all said it was a great pre...Missing 90% of the ingredients. Literally we were just testing one ingredient plus I added a little caffeine. ****s gonna get real bro.
all kinds of novel and interesting ingredients....I cant wait.....
This is the culmination of years of work in this product.
I gave 2 of 13 ingredients to testers recently and they all said it was a great pre...Missing 90% of the ingredients. Literally we were just testing one ingredient plus I added a little caffeine. ****s gonna get real bro.
all kinds of novel and interesting ingredients....I cant wait.....
cubs1987
Well-known member
hell. ya. That is all.
Afi140
Legend
me either! Any eta or even approximation?
stoked about this.
brundel
Board Sponsor
me either! Any eta or even approximation?
90% of the formula should be ready for testing in about 2 weeks.
Still need to work on flavoring and some other things but we are at full speed with testing. I have to test EVERY ingredient before we include it.