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powerfull vs Bulk 1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzo

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USPLabs said:
Maybe because doctors need to study disease or surgery. I'm sure they have time to read the recent issue of MD or FLEX. Such a whack arguement.

You should order steamed vegetables and walk before buying a weight loss supplement...makes perfect unsarcastic sense.

But You think PA knows his chemicals because you do not know any better nor should you. I'm would not expect an accountant to understand organic bio chemistry. In the eyes of the consumer, PA is the "Sh*t" becuase he designed a few steroids and made Costas live.

When I talk Doctorates degree in India, I'm speaking in Chemistry.
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:toofunny:
 
Let's try to walk on the lighter side in this thread. It is currently overflowing with a lot of animosity and aggression. Not a very conducive environment for gaining great insights.
 
strategicmove said:
Let's try to walk on the lighter side in this thread. It is currently overflowing with a lot of animosity and aggression. Not a very conducive environment for gaining great insights.
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:goodpost:

You bring order to a lot of chaos on this forum, my friend. Appreciated. Have no fear..... this won't escalate at all as far as I am concerned. Others.... I can't speak for.
 
Lanbane; said:
:goodpost:

You bring order to a lot of chaos on this forum, my friend. Appreciated. Have no fear..... this won't escalate at all as far as I am concerned. Others.... I can't speak for.
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Thanks, Lanbane. I trust you would stay cool!
 
Lanbane said:
:goodpost:

You bring order to a lot of chaos on this forum, my friend. Appreciated. Have no fear..... this won't escalate at all as far as I am concerned. Others.... I can't speak for.
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I made an oath not to tell anymore goat jokes, so I think we're safe :)
 
USPLabs said:
Maybe because doctors need to study disease or surgery. I'm sure they have time to read the recent issue of MD or FLEX. Such a whack arguement.

You should order steamed vegetables and walk before buying a weight loss supplement...makes perfect unsarcastic sense.

But You think PA knows his chemicals because you do not know any better nor should you. I'm would not expect an accountant to understand organic bio chemistry. In the eyes of the consumer, PA is the "Sh*t" becuase he designed a few steroids and made Costas live.

When I talk Doctorates degree in India, I'm speaking in Chemistry.
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nothing i have ever seen you write, or written on behalf of your company, has demonstrated any technical competence in chemistry
 
Patrick Arnold said:
nothing i have ever seen you write, or written on behalf of your company, has demonstrated any technical competence in chemistry
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You also have to recognize that his consumers don't have any technical competence in chemistry either. What's the point in talking something up in terms which the person buying it wouldn't understand?
 
thesinner said:
You also have to recognize that his consumers don't have any technical competence in chemistry either. What's the point in talking something up in terms which the person buying it wouldn't understand?
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i wasn't just talking about the advertisements but even if you are talking about the advertisements how do you defend him saying that L-dopa does not cross the blood brain barrier? Its as though he did not understand how the stuff functions in the first place yet he is claiming to sell some technologically advanced form of it
 
Actually thats what it reads here

Invalid Link Removed

New and Improved PowerFULL caps available at NutraPlanet!
“Discover Best-Selling Supplement That’s Taking The Bodybuilding Underground By Storm…”

And How It Can Help You Quickly…

Double Growth Hormone Production **
Increase Natural Testosterone Production By 53% **
Slash Recovery In Half **
Throbbing, Rock-Hard Erections That Last **
Improve Complexion – Clear, Glowing Skin **
Sleep Like A Baby **

What More Can You Ask For?
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EasyEJL said:
I still have never gotten "Throbbing, Rock-Hard Erections That Last" either btw
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I did get that effect from the old powerfull.
And that at only 2 caps twice a day.
And it did give me better rest becasue I work graveyard and on that old pfull I could sleep a straight eight hours in the daytime.
Have not tried the new formula yet.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i wasn't just talking about the advertisements but even if you are talking about the advertisements how do you defend him saying that L-dopa does not cross the blood brain barrier? Its as though he did not understand how the stuff functions in the first place yet he is claiming to sell some technologically advanced form of it
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THe PHD's from India told him that....
 
JPM said:
THe PHD's from India told him that....
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indians are an incredible pain in the ass to do business with. i don't mean that as a racist comment. its a cultural comment

not that this has anything to do with this thread
 
Patrick Arnold said:
nothing i have ever seen you write, or written on behalf of your company, has demonstrated any technical competence in chemistry
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Well they sent over the study that showed quercertin did not increase resveratrols bio-availability, but you claim it dose. You seem to avoid the direct questions and attack others.

I'll ask once MORE time. Can I post our test on your Cissus product?

Science based articles may sale to 1% of the consumer base.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
indians are an incredible pain in the ass to do business with. i don't mean that as a racist comment. its a cultural comment

not that this has anything to do with this thread
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Maybe it's you not the indians. You display a bitter personality. Complaing about others will not increase your sales.
 
USPLabs said:
Well they sent over the study that showed quercertin did not increase resveratrols bio-availability, but you claim it dose. You seem to avoid the direct questions and attack others.

I'll ask once MORE time. Can I post our test on your Cissus product?

Science based articles may sale to 1% of the consumer base.
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Are you referring to Giant's Cissus?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
indians are an incredible pain in the ass to do business with. i don't mean that as a racist comment. its a cultural comment

not that this has anything to do with this thread
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my mother was an indian, watch what you say or you'll have a lawsuit on your hands

i think it's you who's the pain in the rectum
 
Patrick Arnold said:
indians are an incredible pain in the ass to do business with. i don't mean that as a racist comment. its a cultural comment

not that this has anything to do with this thread
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You should said that **** on costas. Can I quote you in my next write up..serious question.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
i wasn't just talking about the advertisements but even if you are talking about the advertisements how do you defend him saying that L-dopa does not cross the blood brain barrier? Its as though he did not understand how the stuff functions in the first place yet he is claiming to sell some technologically advanced form of it
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The problem is that other tissus like muscle absorb l-dopa (I'm not sure why or what its used for in other tissues) before sufficient amounts can reach the brain.
 
USPLabs said:
Well they sent over the study that showed quercertin did not increase resveratrols bio-availability, but you claim it dose. You seem to avoid the direct questions and attack others.
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there's been a few studies which have shown quercetin to inhibit the estrone sulfase enzyme. There's also been many studies showing that resveratrol is readily suflonated by this enzyme. I would imagine this is what PA is going off of.

There's also been thought that the resveratrol metabolites might still be active to some degree.

Another key word to note is "showed". You can "show" but that doesn't necessarily "prove".

I'm not trying to take sides. USPLabs and ErgoPharm are both great companies and I enjoy their products. This thread is starting to turn into a
"Your product sucks."
"Oh yeah, well your product sucks worse." type of thread.

I mean, I don't really understand what (if anything) you guys are trying to prove at this point, but it just makes both your companies look bad.
 
USPLabs said:
Well they sent over the study that showed quercertin did not increase resveratrols bio-availability, but you claim it dose. You seem to avoid the direct questions and attack others.

I'll ask once MORE time. Can I post our test on your Cissus product?

Science based articles may sale to 1% of the consumer base.
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what study are you talking about with quercetin

you may not post any test on cissus. i answered this pages ago. you may forward the results to us privately for us to review, that is if you have anything at all
 
USPLabs said:
The problem is that other tissus like muscle absorb l-dopa (I'm not sure why or what its used for in other tissues) before sufficient amounts can reach the brain.
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muscles "absorb" L-dopa

are you for real?

you idiot, its called peripheral decarboxylation
 
Patrick Arnold said:
what study are you talking about with quercetin

you may not post any test on cissus. i answered this pages ago. you may forward the results to us privately for us to review, that is if you have anything at all
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Can someone (hopefully you PA), explain what is going on here with cissus.




please, PM me if need be anyways.
 
thesinner said:
there's been a few studies which have shown quercetin to inhibit the estrone sulfase enzyme. There's also been many studies showing that resveratrol is readily suflonated by this enzyme. I would imagine this is what PA is going off of.
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going more of this and other studies.

oh, and stop being so sensitive. let us fight


Xenobiotica. 2000 Sep;30(9):857-66.Links
Sulphation of resveratrol, a natural compound present in wine, and its inhibition by natural flavonoids.De Santi C, Pietrabissa A, Spisni R, Mosca F, Pacifici GM.
Department of Neurosciences, Medical School, Pisa, Italy.

1. Resveratrol, a polyphenolic compound present in grape and wine, has beneficial effects against cancer and protective effects on the cardiovascular system. Resveratrol is sulphated, and the hepatic and duodenal sulphation might limit the bioavailability of this compound. The aim of this study was to see whether natural flavonoids present in wine, fruits and vegetables inhibit the sulphation of resveratrol in the human liver and duodenum. 2. In the liver, IC50 for the inhibition of resveratrol sulphation was 12+/-2 pM (quercetin), 1.0+/-0.04 microM (fisetin), 1.4+/-0.1 microM (myricetin), 2.2+/-0.1 microM (kaempferol) and 2.8+/-0.2 microM (apigenin). Similarly, in the duodenum, IC50 was 15+/-2 pM (quercetin), 1.3+/-0.1 microM (apigenin), 1.3+/-0.5 microM (fisetin), 2.3+/-0.1 microM (kaempferol) and 2.5+/-0.3 microM (myricetin). 3. The type of inhibition of quercetin on resveratrol sulphation was studied in three liver samples and was determined to be non-competitive and mixed in nature. Km (mean+/-SD; microM) was 0.23+/-0.07 (control), 0.40+/-0.08 (5 pM quercetin) and 0.56+/-0.09 (10 pM quercetin). Vmax (mean+/-SD; pmol min(-1) x mg(-1)) was 99+/-11 (control), 73+/-15 (5 pM quercetin) and 57 +/- 10 (10 pM quercetin). Kj and Kies estimates (mean+/-SD) were 3.7+/-1.8 pM and 12.1+/-1.7 pM respectively (p = 0.010). 4. Chrysin was a substrate for the sulphotransferase(s) and an assay was developed for measuring the chrysin sulphation rate in human liver. The enzyme followed Michaelis-Menten kinetics and Km and Vmax (mean+/-SD) measured in four livers were 0.29+/-0.07 microM and 43.1+/-1.9 pmol x min(-1) x mg(-1) respectively. 5. Catechin was neither an inhibitor of resveratrol sulphation nor a substrate of sulphotransferase. 6. These results are consistent with the view that many, but not all, flavonoids inhibit the hepatic and duodenal sulphation of resveratrol, and such inhibition might improve the bioavailability of this compound.

PMID: 11055264 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
johnyq said:
Can someone (hopefully you PA), explain what is going on here with cissus.




please, PM me if need be anyways.
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i have no clue what he is talking about. i told him that if he has anything then he should reveal the information to me privately and he has not.
 
Funny thing that all USP has done is evade questions, change his answers daily and attack PA. his statements on L-Dopa were moronic at best.

PS I use bulk powerfull and love it, although it does make me get up at nights several times.
 
I'm wondering...

If L-Dopa stimulates dopamine (sometimes dubbed as PIH, or prolactin inhibiting hormone), if it is taken before bed in conjunction with GHB, which is shown to inhibit dopamine pathways and increases prolactin secretion... Will L-Dopa stimulate enough dopamine to stop the prolactin from negating the HGH benefits from GHB?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
muscles "absorb" L-dopa

are you for real?

you idiot, its called peripheral decarboxylation
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Muscle cells...whatever. I'm not the scientist (A BA in chemistry dose not make you a scientist) nor ever claimed to be.

Can this idiot post the test on your Cissus? Answer the QUESTION PA. If anyone would be open to testing it should be you so not sure why you skip over the question or pretend it's not asked.
 
USPLabs said:
Muscle cells...whatever. I'm not the scientist (A BA in chemistry dose not make you a scientist) nor ever claimed to be.

Can this idiot post the test on your Cissus? Answer the QUESTION PA. If anyone would be open to testing it should be you so not sure why you skip over the question or pretend it's not asked.
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he has answered it twice now.....he said YOU WILL NOT release anything or you will get a lawsuit.
 
judge-mental said:
Funny thing that all USP has done is evade questions, change his answers daily and attack PA. his statements on L-Dopa were moronic at best.

PS I use bulk powerfull and love it, although it does make me get up at nights several times.
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Why is my statement moroninc at best? Please explain.

I clearly answered the question. Here it is again since you can not grasp onto it. 1-carboxy is L-Dopa with natural decarboxylase inhibitors native to the herb and this is the reason you get an effect from our product(Unlike your idiol PA who claims it's useless) compared to previous or current L-dopa products on the market.

Now I want my question answered from PA.

Can I post the Cissus test? Before posting, I will test in 3 more times to validate the initial findings.

PA stop avoiding the question.
 
Lanbane said:
While degrees and formal education are important........ we must always bear in mind that many (perhaps the majority?) of MD's and PhD's say supplements do not work. And proceed to tell you the best way to lose weight is to park further away and walk...... on your way into a restaurant, where you are to order steamed vegetables.

Sarcastically, is my point made? So what if PA has a BA.... he knows his chemicals.
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That is actually incredibly sound advice from a a doctor. Also, very few supplements have been proven to do jack all in placebo controlled, double blind studies. A few supplements do work, but no where near to the claims put forward by the supplement companies. Also, a person does not need a PHD in an area of study to be knowledgeable in that subject, anyone who knows how to read can educate themselves on a topic.

Here is my take on what PAT is doing. Pat has felt the heat of the feds come down on him firsthand and knows what they can do if they so choose. The supplement industry is one piece of legislation away form extinction and the supplement companies with their unethical business practices and insane and irresponsible claims are practically drafting the legislation themselves by their reckless and self-serving actions. Yes it is a business and yes it is cut throat, but more and more companies are entering this area every day and are desperate to make as much money as they can, by whatever methods they can, and then cash out. PA i believe really loves this industry and Ergopharm is his passion in life and he sees this industry about to be destroyed. Now PA has a bit of blame in this as 1-ad was what captured the feds attention, but there were so many other companies that made so much more dangerous compounds that he feels somewhat martyred by his experiences. There is a a bit of self pity going on with PA, but I also believe that he does not want to see this industry regulated out of existence.
 
I'd like to see these tests posted, because I'm confused on what you're challenging in regards to his Cissus.
 
USPLabs said:
Lame....

The man who tests everthing is becoming hypocritical...weak.
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He has asked for the opportunity to review them first. He gave ALRI the same courtesy with JW and his GC test after that controversy. If you would like to make them open record, is there a problem with sending him a copy first?

Its such a pity egos and personalities get so tied up with the science. I guess its always the case when you really love what you do and are passionate about it. Hate + Love are flip sides of the same coin.
 
EasyEJL said:
He has asked for the opportunity to review them first. He gave ALRI the same courtesy with JW and his GC test after that controversy. If you would like to make them open record, is there a problem with sending him a copy first?

Its such a pity egos and personalities get so tied up with the science. I guess its always the case when you really love what you do and are passionate about it. Hate + Love are flip sides of the same coin.
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He dose not make the rules. I will not fabricate a test. With his permission, I will test it 3 more times before posting. He can even send the new samples to India. But he may refuse to send to India due to his racist nature against Indians that he claims is cultural.

He can review them when it's posted on the forums..ofcourse if permission is granted
 
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