Post your E...max Results so far...

[Dwight Schrute]

Actually, 1-AD has pretty good bioavailability. It's oral 1-T that didn't quite work, hence the carrier.

It was only 10% which was better than the usual 4-6% but nothing compared to todays orals. Plus Par's formula was MUCH better than anythinh PA came up with (15% tops as he stated) and was the first product to really reach the 20%+ range as far as delivery not to mention increase the bioavailibilty due to the delivery.

As far as Author's statements, they are true in terms of bioavailibility. He had the same viewpoint with Impact as he had Formestane in there wihch has a horrible bioavailibility. It doens't mean it didn't work, but just adding other substances helped enhance the overall effect. But people will see his comments as bashing others even though he is correct.....

 

[bigblank69]

damn this has become such a damn witch hunt. Why can't we wait on the logs to finish before jumping down the throats of each other, hell wait for PA's test results... JEEZ WAIT FOR FRIGGIN ANYTHING! It looks like we're all just waiting to be screwed, hell I think everyone lost there minds just seeing the bottle has changed and already made up there mind that this isn't the same. Personally I'm going to hold off my reservations until I try my E-max, I've seen a few good logs in regards to E-max, and I've seen a couple not so good ones. Bobo made a good point if everytime you did a AAS cycle, Ergo Cycle, S-Drol Cycle, etc... and gained 15lbs plus, you would see gains of 50lbs per year and everyone would be challenging Ronnie Coleman at the olympia in the matter of months....I look at it this way, I bought a ton of bottles of E-max (And dominator) and a couple prostan bottles, if I don't get any results, shame on me for buying into the hype, HYPE mind you that we all created. I don't remember ALR promising 10-15lbs of pure muscle GUARANTEED FOR EVERY USER without question. Some people are non responders, or respond only slightly to certain things, so let's just sit tight and wait for more results to come in. The re-release only shipped 2 weeks ago..............

 

[Ghosting]

Ok bobo, that was in one post my quotes, but you do realize its from another thread in a different forum... I think you could found a better quote from something more on topic dont you?

So what are you saying? We should look at all your posts before passing judgement? You already made an accusation that ALR was dishonest, and DS is the company to be trusted. But that post shouldnt count as much due to other positive posts elsewhere about ALRI.

 

[pu12en12g]

In other words, create the same condition in wihch you gained a good amuont on the first cycle then compare results. If you don't gain, its not the product.

The point is... switching BACK TO THE ORIGINAL BOTTLE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO CHANGE A THING... because it's supposed to be the EXACT same compound.

So that logic makes no sense... at least not the way he worded it.

BTW, I am a big fan of ALRI, and I hope 100% that E...Max LMG is indeed PROVED to be the exact same as Ergomax LMG.

 

[jmh80]

Pu - ALR is saying that if you switch to the old bottle, which you got gains from, and DO NOT see the gains this time, it is likely AR saturation.

Just a way to test the new vs. the old EMax for all the crazies running around here.

 

[Yjyankee]

damn this has become such a damn witch hunt. Why can't we wait on the logs to finish before jumping down the throats of each other, hell wait for PA's test results... JEEZ WAIT FOR FRIGGIN ANYTHING! It looks like we're all just waiting to be screwed, hell I think everyone lost there minds just seeing the bottle has changed and already made up there mind that this isn't the same. Personally I'm going to hold off my reservations until I try my E-max, I've seen a few good logs in regards to E-max, and I've seen a couple not so good ones. Bobo made a good point if everytime you did a AAS cycle, Ergo Cycle, S-Drol Cycle, etc... and gained 15lbs plus, you would see gains of 50lbs per year and everyone would be challenging Ronnie Coleman at the olympia in the matter of months....I look at it this way, I bought a ton of bottles of E-max (And dominator) and a couple prostan bottles, if I don't get any results, shame on me for buying into the hype, HYPE mind you that we all created. I don't remember ALR promising 10-15lbs of pure muscle GUARANTEED FOR EVERY USER without question. Some people are non responders, or respond only slightly to certain things, so let's just sit tight and wait for more results to come in. The re-release only shipped 2 weeks ago..............

:goodpost:

 

[diplomats]

So so true. This same senerio happend to me. I ran a M14ADD, 1-TEST, FINIGENX cycle and gained 23 pounds, took about 3-4 months off came back and ran thesame cycle and gained olny 12-15 pounds. I got so pissed of that i did not gain as much as the first cycle, until some roid guru in my gym explained it to me. Some times you just need to increase your calories as you gain the mass. If you gained 10 pounds in three weeks and hit a plateau, you will need to increase you calories for the fourth week in order to keep seeing good gains. If that does not work then slightly increase the dosage and see what happens.

 

[stalemate]

good post diplomats....from first hand experience. :thumbsup: i'm just not so sure i can increase my cals much more unless i added in a serving of N-Large 2 i've still got 1/2 of a bucket left of. that would put me at close to 5K, but i hate all that damn sugar in there! 23 grams! :frustrate

and i wanna add one more thing. i also agree with PU12 in hoping this stuff is the real deal. for the record. :thumbsup:

 

[Ghosting]

Because there is already a [ / QUOTE] above.

 

[Ghosting]

Because there is already a [ / QUOTE] above.

NM. :lol:

 

[SilentScream27]

Then somone post his diet.

Taking androgens doesn't break the laws of thermodynamics. If he is taking 1000 calories over maintenance, he should be gaining SOMETHING and no PPAR-AA is going to negate those effects.

No, they don't alter the laws of thermodynamics, they just utilize them in ways we wouldn't expect. This is fact: ceteris paribum, on a 5000 calorie diet, you will gain less weight than you would when using PPAR-AAs, and you will gain more using anabolic steroids. Since the energy intake hasn't changed, the way the energy is utilized must obviously be the side of the equation that has been altered.

So why not just eat more? rate limiting factors come into play. Hunger, "fedness", insulin levels, and numerous other factors start to break down the technically correct, yet practically flawed, point that you have put forth.

Its so funny that people will dismiss those that are having positive results but a report from a "friend" is taken more serisously.

People aren't happy with 5lbs per week? **** its not even muscle anyway its most likely intramuscular water retention from increased aldosterone production. Depending on body strucutre and weight that could anywhere from 3 to 10lbs!

you are right that there are some people getting decent results on e...max. The problem, possibly "our" (the AM regular)'s fault, is that we did not hear of barely any true non-responders to ergo; nobody didn't have increased libido, nobody didn't gain at least 10 lbs (and up to 15-20) if they wanted to in 3-6 weeks, and nobody didn't have dramatically improved strength. This may not be the case though... if users of the original ergomax who did NOT experience any of these things (on a bulk) could chime in, it would be of benefit. likewise, those that are on e...max and who have also used ergomax in the past would be a GREAT benefit in shining light on this situation.

How many logs are on here with people that didn't get results form M1T? Quite a bit.

I remember Dante at Avant took 70-80mg and he didn't much in terms of results. So is M1T bunk?

You are right, there are idiosyncratic responses to certain compounds. Our only concern is the "apparent' (may be real, may be not, as described above) disparity between the qualitative and quantitative effects of Ergo and E... if they are the same, there should have been these idiosyncracies distrubuted throughout users of both. Possibly not enough reports on the original. I think I'll make a poll right now actually in addition to anyone who wants to post here.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

It's the superdrol "bunk batch" all over again...

:lol:

 

[Dwight Schrute]

No, they don't alter the laws of thermodynamics, they just utilize them in ways we wouldn't expect. This is fact: ceteris paribum, on a 5000 calorie diet, you will gain less weight than you would when using PPAR-AAs, and you will gain more using anabolic steroids. Since the energy intake hasn't changed, the way the energy is utilized must obviously be the side of the equation that has been altered.

So why not just eat more? rate limiting factors come into play. Hunger, "fedness", insulin levels, and numerous other factors start to break down the technically correct, yet practically flawed, point that you have put forth.


you are right that there are some people getting decent results on e...max. The problem, possibly "our" (the AM regular)'s fault, is that we did not hear of barely any true non-responders to ergo; nobody didn't have increased libido, nobody didn't gain at least 10 lbs (and up to 15-20) if they wanted to in 3-6 weeks, and nobody didn't have dramatically improved strength. This may not be the case though... if users of the original ergomax who did NOT experience any of these things (on a bulk) could chime in, it would be of benefit. likewise, those that are on e...max and who have also used ergomax in the past would be a GREAT benefit in shining light on this situation.


You are right, there are idiosyncratic responses to certain compounds. Our only concern is the "apparent' (may be real, may be not, as described above) disparity between the qualitative and quantitative effects of Ergo and E... if they are the same, there should have been these idiosyncracies distrubuted throughout users of both. Possibly not enough reports on the original. I think I'll make a poll right now actually in addition to anyone who wants to post here.

Of course you will gain less weight, the rate of FFA oxidation and the thermogenic properties will alter metabolic rate somewhat but not by 1000 calories. (a 25% increase in metabolic rate). The point being he should be gaining weight regardless of any PPAR-AA. Androgens in general will have a more favorable effect on nutrient dispersal through increased mRNA translocation and gene expression than any PPAR-AA. The point being those calories will be used for the purpose intended and if he isn't gaining any weight at all, then his diet is not adequate regardless of what he is taking.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

The point is... switching BACK TO THE ORIGINAL BOTTLE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO CHANGE A THING... because it's supposed to be the EXACT same compound.

So that logic makes no sense... at least not the way he worded it.

BTW, I am a big fan of ALRI, and I hope 100% that E...Max LMG is indeed PROVED to be the exact same as Ergomax LMG.

Are you kidding me? THATS THE POINT! It makes perfect sense.

If someone questions the validity of the 2nd bottle, you tell that perons to use the 1st bottle as to prove they are the SAME THING. If he doesn't see results then Author's explanation of downregulation is valid therefore you KNOW you purchased a valid product.

Other than taking that bottle an testing it against the first its is the only way you will know in your mind that both products are valid.

How hard is this to understand?

And PU, about the board going down the tubes, I can easily give you an explanation why people might think but I feel its fairly obvious just by reading this thread.

 

[size]

ceteris paribum

ceteris paribus

nobody didn't have increased libido, nobody didn't gain at least 10 lbs (and up to 15-20) if they wanted to in 3-6 weeks, and nobody didn't have dramatically improved strength. This may not be the case though... if users of the original ergomax who did NOT experience any of these things (on a bulk) could chime in, it would be of benefit.

I remarked on this earlier. A mate of mine on gained 4-5 pounds on 1 botttle of Ergomax LMG in 30days. I do not recall him mentioning any changes (+/-) in libido.

 

[NO MERCY]

Oh the drama....

 

[thanatopsis]

Bobo,

I guess I wasn't crazy for thinking he might have meant it that way in the back of my mind... that makes perfect sense. I'm sure alot of other people, like myself, got distracted by the way everyone else was interpreting Author's statement and took it the wrong way. Pretty easy to run with the crowd especially when you are worried you may have been duped. I was definatly starting to get worried myself.

Hopefully he'll chime back in and confirm this is EXACTLY what he meant so the conspiracy theory can be, at least partially, put to rest. IMHO, I don't think ALRI would pull something like that on purpose -- IF something IS wrong I can only imagine it would be like the DS issue and be a defective raw material that slipped through.

I mentioned earlier that I'll be using the new E...Max shortly, and I will have a log like I did for my 3-week SD cycle. So you all will be the first to know about my results. Cycle starting Monday, and the next Monday after that is when E...Max is coming into play.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

....
And PU, about the board going down the tubes, I can easily give you an explanation why people might think but I feel its fairly obvious just by reading this thread.

LOL....Yeah, PU, this is just what you start to think right before the ban-fest takes place and all goes back to normal

:lol:

On another note, I can't believe this thread is still up.

That's the problem with uneducated gym-newbs using good products. When they don't look like they belong on the cover of M&F withing 3 cycles, this **** is bunk

 

[stalemate]

May I ask what your off period was in between your 30 day protocol and the current one? Also, what, if anything, did you employ for PCT or bridge?

I would suggest that you switch to an old bottle but use the same dosages. When you expose tissue and receptors to a given plasma level of any substance there is a series of adaptations that occur: The number of stimulated receptors or sensitivity decreases as example, meaning that a lessor dosage would have not only reduced tissue results/activity profiles, but also less active material to work with. Consider the lad on a high protein diet that gains 2-3lbs of lean mass then decreases total protein by 20 or more %. The result would be loss of nitrogen.

Or try this analogy: If you put 3 teaspoons of sugar in your coffee then reduce to only 2, do you expect the same taste effects? The loss is due to desensitized receptors that take time to.

I do hope this makes sense lad. And please let us know your results if you opt to take this path.

Personally I have used both about 2 months apart and notice no difference.

Thanks for the input. I like lots of feed back and appreciate you taking the time to do so.

hey bobo you and everyone else finally cumbered up in your head a decent argument about why Author made the statement about switching but it is seriously flawed. look above at the 2nd to last line where he states he used both products 2 months apart and noticed no difference. SO, he would be implying that there should be no difference theoretically speaking, or at least i'd want to translate that into 25-50% of people should feel no difference/see no difference from the first bottle(as with 40 yeard dash). BUT, 90% of logs ARE noticing a difference which won't be explained. he speaks of desensitized receptors which take time to ???? to what?? to get back to normal? his only took 2 months or less. sorry but your argument doesn't work Bobo/others. he was clearly stating that i should switch to an old bottle and try it, then he followed it by saying, personally i used both products with no differences. if you conclude from both of those things together that i'm desensitized and he's trying to get me to waste MORE Money on using up old stock to prove the point that it will be no different, you're sorely mistaken. he's making it clear that there should be no difference in using the new product after the old. I AM FEELING/NOTING A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

 

[pu12en12g]

...taking that bottle an testing it against the first its is the only way you will know in your mind that both products are valid.

Yeah.. I guess that would be interesting.. for the rare few that (for whatever reason) have both versions...

 

[LCSULLA]

hey bobo you and everyone else finally cumbered up in your head a decent argument about why Author made the statement about switching but it is seriously flawed. look above at the 2nd to last line where he states he used both products 2 months apart and noticed no difference. SO, he would be implying that there should be no difference theoretically speaking, or at least i'd want to translate that into 25-50% of people should feel no difference/see no difference from the first bottle(as with 40 yeard dash). BUT, 90% of logs ARE noticing a difference which won't be explained. he speaks of desensitized receptors which take time to ???? to what?? to get back to normal? his only took 2 months or less. sorry but your argument doesn't work Bobo/others. he was clearly stating that i should switch to an old bottle and try it, then he followed it by saying, personally i used both products with no differences. if you conclude from both of those things together that i'm desensitized and he's trying to get me to waste MORE Money on using up old stock to prove the point that it will be no different, you're sorely mistaken. he's making it clear that there should be no difference in using the new product after the old. I AM FEELING/NOTING A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Then stop using it. And just because Author was able to use it two months apart means nothing. Everybody is diffrent.

 

[size]

BUT, 90% of logs ARE noticing a difference which won't be explained.

First, where do you get the 90% figure? Here is an example that E...Max is certainly working.
Invalid Link Removed

I feel as though many are missing a key point. Accrument of of lean body mass is not linear; as unfortunate as this may be, it is a reality.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

God, you are unbelievable.

First, where are you getting all these numbers from.

Seconds, almost 90% of the logs are using in different situations. One they used while bulking, the other they used for cutting and don't forget the guy who was eating Mcdonalds and candy reporting he wasn't getting reuslts here but reported getting results over at bb.com. Yeah base your numbers off of THOSE logs.

Desensitised receptors means you won't get the SAMER RESULTS THE SECOND TIME AROUND! SOME EXPERIENCE THIS, SOME DON'T. HORMONE USE IS COMPLETEY UNPREDICTABLE FOR EVERYONE. CHECK THE LOGS FOR M1T, SD, etc... AND YOU WILL FIND EFFECTS ALL OVER THE CHART!


Post your diet from what you used the last time to this time. I want to see EXACT numbers. Also post all the supplements you used this time and last time. Lets just see how much is the same now compared to then.

I mean you are really dense if you actually think he is telling you the two bottles are different. Yeah its all a conspiracy and they are fooling everyone. Oh I forget Raven said both were from the same batch then Author came out and said they were different (your interpretatio). Yeah they are THAT stupid. They create a conspriacy by using two different compouds, then say its the same, then go back and say its different (you interpretation) all within 2 days.


Yes he is saying that there should no difference WITH YOU! If you change to the old bottle and are still having the SAME RESULTS AND/OR LACK OF RESULTS the problem isn't the substance, BUT YOU AND HOW YOU REACT. THATS WHY HE GAVE THE EXPLANATION ABOUT AR DOWNREGULATION!!!!!!!!


How can people be this dense?!!?!?!?!

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Pu - ALR is saying that if you switch to the old bottle, which you got gains from, and DO NOT see the gains this time, it is likely AR saturation.

Just a way to test the new vs. the old EMax for all the crazies running around here.

It really is THAT simple.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

First, where do you get the 90% figure? Here is an example that E...Max is certainly working.
Invalid Link Removed

I feel as though many are missing a key point. Accrument of of lean body mass is not linear; as unfortunate as this may be, it is a reality.

And it is reality in wihch many of these new users (people that have been using for less than a year) don't understand.

Then they cry "bunk".

 

[Dwight Schrute]

BTW for those that wondering,

There have been 7 votes in the poll thread with 4 people using it and all 4 people have had different results WITH THE OLD FORMULA.

 

[stalemate]

Post your diet from what you used the last time to this time. I want to see EXACT numbers. Also post all the supplements you used this time and last time. Lets just see how much is the same now compared to then.

I mean you are really dense if you actually think he is telling you the two bottles are different. Yeah its all a conspiracy and they are fooling everyone. Oh I forget Raven said both were from the same batch then Author came out and said they were different (your interpretatio). Yeah they are THAT stupid. They create a conspriacy by using two different compouds, then say its the same, then go back and say its different (you interpretation) all within 2 days.


Yes he is saying that there should no difference WITH YOU! If you change to the old bottle and are still having the SAME RESULTS AND/OR LACK OF RESULTS the problem isn't the substance, BUT YOU AND HOW YOU REACT. THATS WHY HE GAVE THE EXPLANATION ABOUT AR DOWNREGULATION!!!!!!!!


How can people be this dense?!!?!?!?!

i'm not gonna waste my time posting EXACT numbers because compared to you, my diet would not be good enough lol. seriously though, i can tell you this, my previous diet for my first cycle included much N-Large 2, hot pockets, canned green beans, many bowls of oats w/brown sugar and honey(i couldn't stand oats). the only supps besides N-Large 2 and WPI was cycle regulars such as Fish oil(year round), Flax oil, etc. i really cannot remember 100% but PCT was Milk Thistle, NAC, RXT, etc.

this time around diet is extremely clean by my definition, trying to keep sodium as low as possible(isn't too easy), lean meats(mainly fish, tuna, ground beef, chicken breasts) tons of veggies(50/50 fresh:steamed), 2 salads/day(romaine-light on the ranch), SOME fruit(mainly banans 1 in morning, 1 Post-WO, nothing else is in season it seems), alot of oats(w/a Tbsp honey, splenda, banana or blueberries), whole grain bread/bagels, NATURAL P.B.(yeah, i'm an abuser), "some" brown rice-hate the ****, 4-6 eggs/day, whey shakes w/water OR big PWO shake w/skim milk, P.B., banana, blueberries, ice. supps i'm using this time around include:

E...MAX
Multi
Hawthorn Berries
Celery Seed Extract
Omega Flex Support
Fish Oil
Flax Oil
NAC
SESATHIN

so far to date: 2 gained lbs., 1% BF dropped.

in regard to your 2nd paragraph, i don't think the man knows what he's saying half the time.

edit: my diet for first cycle was fitday.commed at 3950 cals/day. approx. 40P/40C/20F
this time around i'm at 4400 cals/day approx. the same 40/40/20, sometimes i splurge on the fats(P.B.-what can i say, i'm addicted, i've got 10 jars in the cupboard right now).
it's no "Bobo diet", but i think it's pretty good and clean.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

So in other words your diet the first time around wasa horrible and included a shitload of empty calories (which would cause a significant weight increase)

....and your second diet is much more clean, hence less calories, hence less weight gain. The use os Sesathin isn't helping either.


So you tihnk the problem is with the product?????????


If Author didn't know what he was saying half the time he wouldn't develop the products he does. I love how people say he's full of **** or doens't know what he is talking about but if you ask them to describe the simple metabolic pathways of cholesterol they wouldn't have a clue. In other words, those who don't understand endocrinology on a basic level shouldn't be telling anyone who actually designs hormonal products they are full of **** (at least about endocrinology).

 

[stalemate]

BTW for those that wondering,

There have been 7 votes in the poll thread with 4 people using it and all 4 people have had different results WITH THE OLD FORMULA.

i thought the argument was new vs. old, so then you'd have to find out from each of those 4, now 5 have used the new and how much different/same their experience was, as opposed to ALR who used 2 months apart and felt NO difference. but yeah, people are different, but that's the easy argument. i'm switching to an old bottle starting later this week after i see the true effects of 30mg/day on the E...MAX. so we will see starting week 4 at 30mg/day on the old bottle, since supposably we won't be getting any lab results...and if we do, they won't be good enough for anyone. :lol:

 

[Dwight Schrute]

....and your vote stalemate just made it 5 for 5. 5 people used the old Ergomax, and 5 people had different results.


Yeah, I see the logic in this arguement.

 

[Bionic]

God, you are unbelievable.

How can people be this dense?!!?!?!?!

C'mon Bobo, we're both around the same age and have been around the proverbial block. Does this REALLY surprise you?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

i thought the argument was new vs. old, so then you'd have to find out from each of those 4, now 5 have used the new and how much different/same their experience was, as opposed to ALR who used 2 months apart and felt NO difference. but yeah, people are different, but that's the easy argument. i'm switching to an old bottle starting later this week after i see the true effects of 30mg/day on the E...MAX. so we will see starting week 4 at 30mg/day on the old bottle, since supposably we won't be getting any lab results...and if we do, they won't be good enough for anyone. :lol:

The arguement was based on people previous results or don't you remember all these people fueling the fire by stating they gained a huge amount of weight, huige amount of strenght and libido went nuts.

The voting you now see bascially destroys the reference point for those making those accusations and we can see by the results of the new one that they are relatively the SAME as the old reults. ALL OVER THE PLACE!


And your results are very normal since your diet is completely different, you are usng a PPAR-AA and the fact you used the same thing before. In other words, its normal.

I gained 18lbs on my first test cycle. If I used the same diet and the same amounts I MIGHT get 4-6lbs now. Anyone who has used androgens for an extened period of time knows these things.

 

[stalemate]

So in other words your diet the first time around wasa horrible and included a shitload of empty calories (which would cause a significant weight increase)

....and your second diet is much more clean, hence less calories, hence less weight gain. The use os Sesathin isn't helping either.


So you tihnk the problem is with the product?????????


If Author didn't know what he was saying half the time he wouldn't develop the products he does. I love how people say he's full of **** or doens't know what he is talking about but if you ask them to describe the simple metabolic pathways of cholesterol they wouldn't have a clue. In other words, those who don't understand endocrinology on a basic level shouldn't be telling anyone who actually designs hormonal products they are full of **** (at least about endocrinology).

well if you would like to get technical, i put on 22 lbs. my first cycle, 16 was LBM which i kept. so i gained the extra weight you were referring to, yes, but then i lost it when i tried to. No, the sesathin doesn't help for gaining "weight", but that's not what i wanted from this 2nd cycle, i want strength and LBM(6-10 lbs.) SO, that being the case, i have no strength gains above the norm, just decent pumps, and a few lbs. LBM. also, there are some people who KNOW about the **** he talks about, and they too are constantly telling people that it makes no sense. also, on a side note, who uses Prostanazol for gyno?!?! ROFL!!! poor kid!

 

[Ghosting]

2 questions Stalemate.

1) How long have you been on this cycle?

2) What does 1% equal in pounds for you?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

LBM. also, there are some people who KNOW about the **** he talks about, and they too are constantly telling people that it makes no sense. also, on a side note, who uses Prostanazol for gyno?!?! ROFL!!! poor kid!

Oh really? And who are these people? PA? Gee, that opinion isn't biased at all. The experst at bb.com? Let me pause a minute as I chuckle...


I have read most of what he posts and 90% of it makes sense and the other 10% is theoretical.

 

[Ghosting]

who uses Prostanazol for gyno?!?! ROFL!!! poor kid!

Maybe Skillz is giving him advice.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

well if you would like to get technical, i put on 22 lbs. my first cycle, 16 was LBM which i kept. so i gained the extra weight you were referring to, yes, but then i lost it when i tried to. No, the sesathin doesn't help for gaining "weight", but that's not what i wanted from this 2nd cycle, i want strength and LBM(6-10 lbs.) SO, that being the case, i have no strength gains above the norm, just decent pumps, and a few lbs. LBM. also, there are some people who KNOW about the **** he talks about, and they too are constantly telling people that it makes no sense. also, on a side note, who uses Prostanazol for gyno?!?! ROFL!!! poor kid!

Prostanozol is similar to Winstrol which often has been reported to cause anti-progesteron activity and also since its a DHT derivative people beleive it to be an anti-estrogen.

In both cases there is no documented proof so its another myth.

 

[stalemate]

....and your vote stalemate just made it 5 for 5. 5 people used the old Ergomax, and 5 people had different results.


Yeah, I see the logic in this arguement.

everyone had diff. results, of course they did, but shouldn't they correspond to the new product NOW??(those that have done a cycle of each product?) for instance, if i had a huge libido increase and huge strength gains, shouldn't i have a portion of it say mild libido increase and mild strength gains? thus less weight, but comparable? say maybe 10 lbs. this time around instead of 16 LBM?? i just don't understand how a product can act COMPLETELY opposite the 2nd time using it? same product, different effect. and don't say that someone could cut, and someone could bulk, that would be different. i'm talking both about a bulk and a bulk.

we'll see when i switch bottles i guess huh?

 

[stalemate]

Maybe Skillz is giving him advice.

actually it was Author who gave him this advice.

 

[stalemate]

2 questions Stalemate.

1) How long have you been on this cycle?

2) What does 1% equal in pounds for you?

1) i've been on for....today is day 18.

2) 1% = 1.92 lbs. - i believe that would be the way of doing it.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

.... i just don't understand how a product can act COMPLETELY opposite the 2nd time using it? same product, different effect.....

Well, its already been explained a few times in this thread.

If you don't believe it, go read a few logs from serious lifters and BBers. I don't have experience, but I'm more than prepared to see this type of result based on the material I "educated myself" with and logs I've read.

You'll come back tot his thread in a year or two and go....WTF was I thinking :lol:

 

[kwyckemynd00]

STALEMATE:
What are your stats bud? B/C at 192lbs NOW and if you're of average height, then its obvious why you gained 20lbs your first cycle.....:rofl:

 

[Dwight Schrute]

actually it was Author who gave him this advice.

Then I disgree although the reasoning is psoted above. Its a DHT derivative and many DHT derivatives show anti-estrogenic, anti-gyno properties. There is no documented proof to show this so that is why I wouldn't recommend it.

Oh no, I disgreed with Author. I better ban myself becaus everyone knows its a nazi boot camp aorund here.

 

[stalemate]

So in other words your diet the first time around wasa horrible and included a shitload of empty calories (which would cause a significant weight increase)

....and your second diet is much more clean, hence less calories, hence less weight gain. The use os Sesathin isn't helping either.


So you tihnk the problem is with the product?????????


If Author didn't know what he was saying half the time he wouldn't develop the products he does. I love how people say he's full of **** or doens't know what he is talking about but if you ask them to describe the simple metabolic pathways of cholesterol they wouldn't have a clue. In other words, those who don't understand endocrinology on a basic level shouldn't be telling anyone who actually designs hormonal products they are full of **** (at least about endocrinology).

i guess i always though better, cleaner foods reported better results. isn't this what you preach? isn't this FACT? maybe i better start eatin my anabolic hot pockets again. :think:

 

[Yagman]

1) i've been on for....today is day 18.

2) 1% = 1.92 lbs. - i believe that would be the way of doing it.

Wow, that sucks, you could easily put that on with just food. Are you showing any signs of being shut down?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

i guess i always though better, cleaner foods reported better results. isn't this what you preach? isn't this FACT? maybe i better start eatin my anabolic hot pockets again. :think:

You'll gain more WEIGHT if you eat more cals.

You'll gain more quality mass and less BF if you eat well.

Its obvious bro....lol

 

[stalemate]

Well, its already been explained a few times in this thread.

If you don't believe it, go read a few logs from serious lifters and BBers. I don't have experience, but I'm more than prepared to see this type of result based on the material I "educated myself" with and logs I've read.

You'll come back tot his thread in a year or two and go....WTF was I thinking :lol:

i very much hope that i will.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Well, its already been explained a few times in this thread.

If you don't believe it, go read a few logs from serious lifters and BBers. I don't have experience, but I'm more than prepared to see this type of result based on the material I "educated myself" with and logs I've read.

You'll come back tot his thread in a year or two and go....WTF was I thinking :lol:

I don't even think that is the reason. Its his diet.

How anyone can make a honest review withouth actually having calorie and macronutrient numbers is beyond me.


Not to mention he is using supplements that would promote increased thermogenic activity.

IMO its a classic example of how unreliable much of the information you see from reports is.

 

[Yagman]

Then I disgree although the reasoning is psoted above. Its a DHT derivative and many DHT derivatives show anti-estrogenic, anti-gyno properties. There is no documented proof to show this so that is why I wouldn't recommend it.

Oh no, I disgreed with Author. I better ban myself becaus everyone knows its a nazi boot camp aorund here.

Could you stop using the word nazi please.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Wow, that sucks, you could easily put that on with just food. Are you showing any signs of being shut down?

Umm, he lost that amount in FAT while gaining 2lbs.