POLICE STATE 2011: 6 year old girl groped then drug tested by TSA

drinkyboy said:
First of all, he boarded the plane in Amsterdam. They dont just hire anybody...there are all kinds of background checks and im sure if they had some kind of sexual offense against a child on their recoed, they wouldnt hire them. Somebody posted that they ARE pedofiles so that was geared more towards THAT person. There is NO way of predicting someones future actions PERIOD! So for those saying there rights are being violated, what do you suggest they do? Let people come and go as they please? So they quit doing these security checks and the moment something goes wrong, everyone acts surprised. What do you expect? I am almost positive that ANY COMMON IDIOT CANNOT FIND A WAY TO PENETRATE THAT IMPENETRATABLE SECURITY! Nice try though. I too enjoy my freedom, thats why I WILL let them grab me wherever they please, as long as I get from point A to point B in one piece.
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There you go... you just found a way to penetrate that security... board in another country, TSA just became useless and you weren't even thinking about it, thanks for making my point for me.
 
hackos123 said:
Be careful how much "Safety" we demand from our government or allow it to impose on us. Complete freedom is anarchy, but complete control is totalitarianism. In the middle somewhere is the balance where we maintain our personal freedoms in relative safety. I for one, am willing to risk a little of the safety aspect not to risk my personal freedoms related to privacy. Once we lose or give up our freedom in the name of safety and security, we will not get it back.
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Take it somewhere else, that logic doesn't seem to sit well here.

How long exactly before 911? And what type of "Security" controls were there back then?

But yeah... we are much safer now.
 
drinkyboy said:
First of all, he boarded the plane in Amsterdam. They dont just hire anybody...there are all kinds of background checks and im sure if they had some kind of sexual offense against a child on their recoed, they wouldnt hire them. Somebody posted that they ARE pedofiles so that was geared more towards THAT person. There is NO way of predicting someones future actions PERIOD! So for those saying there rights are being violated, what do you suggest they do? Let people come and go as they please? So they quit doing these security checks and the moment something goes wrong, everyone acts surprised. What do you expect? I am almost positive that ANY COMMON IDIOT CANNOT FIND A WAY TO PENETRATE THAT IMPENETRATABLE SECURITY! Nice try though. I too enjoy my freedom, thats why I WILL let them grab me wherever they please, as long as I get from point A to point B in one piece.
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no one is saying come and go willy nilly. Quite the contrary. The issue at hand is with an offensive pat down of a 6 year old. The TSA has been shown ineffective, these are just gratuitous and unnecessary.
 
I understand what your saying but they DO use children for this stuff and just because someone has a child does not mean that they play the role of a parent. Some people have their kids hold there stash or whatever they are trying to hide. And to DAdams...but we are safe arent we? No one was hurt. You guys do realize that there is NOTHING anyone can say on this board that will be an "end all" solution to this right? When I was in the military, I was flying back to Korea in uniform and they pulled me aside to search me. I wasnt mad because I know the person you would least expect is the person that has something to hide.
 
I will say that everyone on here has a valid point. Im not hating on anyone for their views....just to be clear.
 
Also, TSA and Homeland Security are both scrutinized for profiling. So, for every search of a person fitting "the profile" of a terrorist, they have to search kids, little old ladies, and even men and women in uniform.
 
drinkyboy said:
And to DAdams...but we are safe arent we? No one was hurt.
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If your are referring to the underwear bomber, then again, the TSA did NOTHING to avert that attack. My point was that the TSA is a corporate private money grab from the Federal government that doesn't protect us anymore than prior to 911 attack. Every last security measure we have instituted has been a knee jerk reaction to something had happened.

As I stated earlier, we do not look at people, we scan bodies and touch clothes, until we have trained officers looking people in the eyes, we are just waiting for the next attack, no more, no less. Take a look at isreals air port security, they don't violate personal space for flyers, yet are very successful in stopping terrorism even though they have 10x more attempts than here in the US.

There is no reason to reinvent the wheel when the process has been tried and true out there.
 
specmike said:
Also, TSA and Homeland Security are both scrutinized for profiling. So, for every search of a person fitting "the profile" of a terrorist, they have to search kids, little old ladies, and even men and women in uniform.
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Profiling has proven not to work, Bruce hits that one hard. You profile muslims, the goal post will be moved.

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DAdams91982 said:
Profiling has proven not to work, Bruce hits that one hard. You profile muslims, the goal post will be moved.

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That still does not change the fact that they do in fact vary their "random" searches across all lines to avoid even the appearance of profiling or any form of discrimination.
 
specmike said:
That still does not change the fact that they do in fact vary their "random" searches across all lines to avoid even the appearance of profiling or any form of discrimination.
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Did you not read what I just posted?

I just stated profiling does not work in the native way of thinking. No use in profiling.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Did you not read what I just posted?

I just stated profiling does not work in the native way of thinking. No use in profiling.
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YES. I READ WHAT YOU POSTED. I am NOT arguing the point of whether or not profiling works.

I am saying that both TSA and Homeland Security have been accused of or come under scrutiny for the appearance of profiling. Now, read carefully......

They may or may not be profiling. It may or may not work. I don't give a sh1t. The point is that they both have in fact been accused of it and have adopted tactics or techniques to avoid being accused of it again.
 
specmike said:
YES. I READ WHAT YOU POSTED. I am NOT arguing the point of whether or not profiling works.

I am saying that both TSA and Homeland Security have been accused of or come under scrutiny for the appearance of profiling. Now, read carefully......

They may or may not be profiling. It may or may not work. I don't give a sh1t. The point is that they both have in fact been accused of it and have adopted tactics or techniques to avoid being accused of it again.
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Okay, I am done. Your response makes no point at all to the article I posted from bruce schniere and you responded in less than a minute of me posting it so there is no way you could have read it.

So feel free to carry on defending the unnecessary TSA as I believe our debate has officially ended.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Even though it is known to be useless, I could care less about profiling... just keep your 60 year old paws off my baby maker!
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I'm 99 and if I wanna give you a reach around you're gonna like it or get tazed

Sorry it seems my sense of humor is out of control again :)
 
DAdams91982 said:
Okay, I am done. Your response makes no point at all to the article I posted from bruce schniere and you responded in less than a minute of me posting it so there is no way you could have read it.

So feel free to carry on defending the unnecessary TSA as I believe our debate has officially ended.
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I think you are confused. I'm not defending the TSA and no, I have not had time to read any articles or books by anyone. I am making a statement based on my own personal knowledge from my law enf career.

specmike said:
Also, TSA and Homeland Security are both scrutinized for profiling. So, for every search of a person fitting "the profile" of a terrorist, they have to search kids, little old ladies, and even men and women in uniform.
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All I said was those 2 entities have been forced to change tactics because they were accused of profiling. I don't see how you can conclude that I am defending TSA based on that statement. I have also not said ANYTHING about the effectiveness of profiling or the lack thereof. You either misread or I mistyped something above.

Again, I am not saying profiling works. I am not defending the TSA. They suck at times. I got on a plane last year with another persons boarding pass so yeah, they have holes in their plan.
 
ax1 said:
On another note...Israel doesnt subject their passengers to offensive pat downs and naked body checks and they get terrorism all the time. Havent seen any issues on their airplanes either..
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And, just so we all are aware, what the Israeli's do is the epitome of profiling. And they are REALLY good at it. :yup:
 
specmike said:
And, just so we all are aware, what the Israeli's do is the epitome of profiling. And they are REALLY good at it. :yup:
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Ill have to look into that more....but I know they use a system of interviewing. A form of psychology and mind/body reading.
 
specmike said:
And, just so we all are aware, what the Israeli's do is the epitome of profiling. And they are REALLY good at it. :yup:
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Depends on how you define profiling. The way it is tossed around today is via race, sex, religion...etc. Which is what you are alluding to in your previous post.

Israel does none of these things. In that article it talks about behavioral awareness training, which is what Israel performs along with a defense in depth tactics. All of which we in the USA do not do. We have one line defense, nothing in depth, and we do not look anyone in the eyes. The only thing in the US we must beat, is a computer, something easily done.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Depends on how you define profiling. The way it is tossed around today is via race, sex, religion...etc. Which is what you are alluding to in your previous post.

Israel does none of these things. In that article it talks about behavioral awareness training, which is what Israel performs along with a defense in depth tactics. All of which we in the USA do not do. We have one line defense, nothing in depth, and we do not look anyone in the eyes. The only thing in the US we must beat, is a computer, something easily done.
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ax1 said:
Ill have to look into that more....but I know they use a system of interviewing. A form of psychology and mind/body reading.
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Israel’s approach allows most travelers to pass through airport security with relative ease. But Israeli personnel do single out small numbers of passengers for extensive searches and screening, based on profiling methods that have so far been rejected in the United States, subjecting Arabs and, in some cases, other foreign nationals to an extensive screening that comes with a steep civil liberties price.
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“The profiling system is good,” Merari said. “But it has to be done with more sensitivity.”
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“They began with my hair, even though it is only two centimeters long. They began feeling through it, then examining behind my ears, the neck, the shoulders. They began feeling me under my bra, and then continued on to my tummy. I felt as though I was under a sexual assault,” Hunaida Ghanem, an Israeli Arab resident of Jerusalem who has a PhD from Hebrew University in sociology and a postdoctoral degree from Harvard, said as she recalled an incident at the airport in June 2009.

*

“I have been through searches in the U.S. But what they did here was very different. It was very humiliating,” she added.

Since then, Ghanem has declined six invitations to attend conferences abroad, saying she finds it emotionally difficult to go to the airport.
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ax1 said:
Ill have to look into that more....but I know they use a system of interviewing. A form of psychology and mind/body reading.
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They never even talk to people. I listened to the director of security in Israel doing an interview and they look for human factors, high emotions, quirky behavior, they look into peoples eyes as they walk by. There is no emphasis on the common "Profiling" factors of sex, race, religion...
 
DAdams91982 said:
Seriously man... you read that article to refute someone, but you refuse to read one from one of the most respected security professionals in the world.

Good grief.
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Gimme a link, I'll read it.

DAdams91982 said:
They never even talk to people. I listened to the director of security in Israel doing an interview and they look for human factors, high emotions, quirky behavior, they look into peoples eyes as they walk by. There is no emphasis on the common "Profiling" factors of sex, race, religion...
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You can't seriously believe that this security director is going to actually reveal their techniques on public TV can you? Good grief.

It's profiling in the most classic sense. First you say profiling does not work. Now you are saying that it depends on how you define profiling.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Seriously man... you read that article to refute someone, but you refuse to read one from one of the most respected security professionals in the world.

Good grief.
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And I question anything coming from "Ya Libnan"

specmike said:
Gimme a link, I'll read it.
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I think he gave you a link already....it took a while to read but somehow you responded in 60 seconds.

specmike said:
You can't seriously believe that this security director is going to actually reveal their techniques on public TV can you? Good grief.
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Thats actually a potentially a very valid statement.
 
specmike said:
Gimme a link, I'll read it.



You can't seriously believe that this security director is going to actually reveal their techniques on public TV can you? Good grief.

It's profiling in the most classic sense. First you say profiling does not work. Now you are saying that it depends on how you define profiling.
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I do apologize that I assumed you like everyone one else in this country terms profiling as the media is when they try to vilify it. Let me rephrase since you seem to understand what I am attempting to allude to over text. Profiling in the media terms does not work, such as appearance, race, religion, sex, creed, whatever. Performing "behavioral assessment" profiling does.

Take that as me making an assumption I shouldn't have.
 
ax1 said:
Thats actually a potentially a very valid statement.
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The inner 3 depths he did not discuss, as I wouldn't expect them to. But the first line depths he said he would talk about openly, for the sheer fact... you cannot change hinky behavior, you cannot unstress yourself... just like a lie detector, you know how one can beat it, but it just isn't possible. Behavior assessment is a trained skill, not exactly something you can just circumvent.
 
DAdams91982 said:
I do apologize that I assumed you like everyone one else in this country terms profiling as the media is when they try to vilify it. Let me rephrase since you seem to understand what I am attempting to allude to over text. Profiling in the media terms does not work, such as appearance, race, religion, sex, creed, whatever. Performing "behavioral assessment" profiling does.

Take that as me making an assumption I shouldn't have.
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I'm passionate about certain subjects. I have been accused of racial profiling in the past. I have had a good bit of training in this general area although very little on terrorism specifically.

It boils down to this. As Americans with close to 500 international airports we have 2 choices. 1 is the current system. The other is to migrate to the Israeli way of doing things but, American's won't accept any form of profiling either.

So, do you want to be scanned by machines and groped under the current system? Or would you prefer to take your chances on being profiled and randomly pulled out of the crowd and interrogated for 3 hours, have your belongings taken, and then physically groped and scanned?

The man power to have skilled profilers at that many airports is staggering. Not just anyone can do that well. It's a lot like drug interdiction and narcotics work.
 
DAdams91982 said:
The inner 3 depths he did not discuss, as I wouldn't expect them to. But the first line depths he said he would talk about openly, for the sheer fact... you cannot change hinky behavior, you cannot unstress yourself... just like a lie detector, you know how one can beat it, but it just isn't possible. Behavior assessment is a trained skill, not exactly something you can just circumvent.
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And its something I wouldnt be offended if it was going on in the airport. Life can go back to normal. Its effective...proven track record. Is it a guarantee? no...nothing is but to me this is the solution Id like to see in the airports in america, not groping, naked body scanners, public humiliation, etc....
 
specmike said:
I'm passionate about certain subjects. I have been accused of racial profiling in the past. I have had a good bit of training in this general area although very little on terrorism specifically.

It boils down to this. As Americans with close to 500 international airports we have 2 choices. 1 is the current system. The other is to migrate to the Israeli way of doing things but, American's won't accept any form of profiling either.

So, do you want to be scanned by machines and groped under the current system? Or would you prefer to take your chances on being profiled and randomly pulled out of the crowd and interrogated for 3 hours, have your belongings taken, and then physically groped and scanned?

The man power to have skilled profilers at that many airports is staggering. Not just anyone can do that well. It's a lot like drug interdiction and narcotics work.
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Those are the only two options YOU are suggesting, there are plenty more out there than these two.

Second, your little outcome of being profiled then interrogated for 3 hours, belonging taken, groped, scanned... please tell me you are not trying to make a serious generalization here.

If we are attempting to make genralizations, then here we go.

1 Behavioral Assessor can take the place of 2 security lines... so 8 people.

2 Xray watchers
2 people to watch you walk through the machines
2 people for pat downs when it wont stop beeping
2 people to pick up the empty plastic buckets and put them to the front of the line.

There... Man power problem... SOLVED.
 
ax1 said:
And its something I wouldnt be offended if it was going on in the airport. Life can go back to normal. Its effective...proven track record. Is it a guarantee? no...nothing is but to me this is the solution Id like to see in the airports in america, not groping, naked body scanners, public humiliation, etc....
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I agree.. how long before 911 did we got without hijacked planes being flown into buildings?

Was it a tragedy? Yes... was it necessary to completely disrupt America's way of life for? No.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Those are the only two options YOU are suggesting, there are plenty more out there than these two.

Second, your little outcome of being profiled then interrogated for 3 hours, belonging taken, groped, scanned... please tell me you are not trying to make a serious generalization here.

If we are attempting to make genralizations, then here we go.

1 Behavioral Assessor can take the place of 2 security lines... so 8 people.

2 Xray watchers
2 people to watch you walk through the machines
2 people for pat downs when it wont stop beeping
2 people to pick up the empty plastic buckets and put them to the front of the line.

There... Man power problem... SOLVED.
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I was making a gross generalization of the only 2 realistic options that have been mentioned in this thread. Just a bit of levity if you will. This thread seems to have gotten a bit tense for some.

And, do some more reading. It's not uncommon AT ALL at Ben Gurion for people to be detained and interrogated. That's why I used an exaggerated example of that.

As far as your behavioral assesor, 1 skilled and qualified person can in fact do that. But, I don't think you realize what it takes to be good at that sort of thing. It's a rare skill and to be great at it takes a measure of natural talent and instinct that cannot be taught. It's one of those things that not just anyone can do. Coming up with enough of them to man close to 500 airports 24 hours a day, 365 days a year might be impossible. Remember, Israel has only 1 international airport and it's not that busy so their example may not be feasible for the USA.

If you know any cops, go find someone who does interstate drug interdiction that is good at it. I used to work with one of the best in the USA (R.I.P. Officer Robby Bishop). It was almost like he was psychic. Other guys that were "good" at it talked about him as if he were a magician. He trained others around the nation. THAT'S the kind of talent you need when you have a person sitting in an airport looking for terrorists.

As for the 8 TSA employees, you could in fact train a chimp to do some of those tasks. In some cases, the chimp may do a better job. But, the skill level is nowhere close to that of a trained and skilled behavioral assessor or trained and skilled profiler.
 
Flaw said:
This is very sad but if a person can stick a weapon up their butt they will use a child in a heart beat to traffic things through security. It's one of those things that is very offensive, yet if a terrorist straped a weapon to their child and got through security everyone would be mad they got through and say security failed. Where's the balance? It's extremely hard to balance.
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We just had a 10 yr old, last week, walk into a classroom and shoot his teacher in the stomach with a 25cali. Syht happens, there are very few ways of balancing it.
 
hardknock said:
We just had a 10 yr old, last week, walk into a classroom and shoot his teacher in the stomach with a 25cali. Syht happens, there are very few ways of balancing it.
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Yup shiiiit happens plain and simple. No one can save the world from itself.
 
you guys got ballz to talk about politics and the government in an Anabolic website when they can easily track your ass down and bust you for your cycles lol
 
Markusrulezzz said:
you guys got ballz to talk about politics and the government in an Anabolic website when they can easily track your ass down and bust you for your cycles lol
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you do realize that a few of the people in this thread talking about the govt, WORK for the govt?
 
This isnt big-bro

This is all about big-sis Janet Napolitano. Dont we all love how our TSA Overlord is expanding to your local supermarket and is creating a snitch and tell society here in america just like they did in nazi germany?

She has video messages at checkout lines installing at wallmarts and targets across the country conditioning all the serfs to snitch on each other.

This is the new "See something, Say something" campaign.



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My TSA Adventure

Last year, I had a trip from GA to CA for work. The person in CA that was supposed to book my ticket screwed up and did not actually book the flight I requested. So, I show up at the ATL airport and go to curb side check in. They check my ID, hand me a boarding pass, and off I go. Keep in mind, that I was NOT booked on this flight but of course, I did not know that.

From that point, 3 different TSA people looked at both my boarding pass and my drivers license. I sat in the terminal and boarded when my zone was called. I went to my seat, secured my carry on, and sat down.

After a few minutes, a fellow came up and discovered that I was in his seat. We compared boarding passes and only looked at the seat number, not the names on our passes. So, I went to a flight attendant and she sent me back to the boarding desk.

Long story short, me and this other guy had the same last name except his ended in "son". Sort of like Smith and Smithson. So, Mike Smith gave a baggage handler a drivers license and recieved George Smithson's boarding pass. With this pass AND a drivers license in tow, I passed thru 3 TSA points, passed the boarding agent, and got onto a plane.

Of course I had no weapons or bombs and no ill intent. Oddly enough, they did not seem to care. Some TSA dude came and looked at my pass, shrugged, and took me back out to the ticketing area. So, yes, TSA does have it's issues.
 
Full interview with mother of 6 year old girl!

"Selena Drexel, Mother of Groped 6 yr old Girl: TSA Sexual Abuse Must STOP!"



 
America TSA Sexually Abuse Baby at Airport

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TSA Agents Check Babies Diaper for Poop Bombs!

 
Soon they'll be checking mothers who are pregnant to see if that is really a fetus inside of them or if it's really a big bomb implanted into the stomach.

Seriously, Al-Qaeda didn't win in the sense that they took our country down, but they did put a big dent in our liberties and our ability to enjoy life without going through body scanners and being groped.
 
MisterRoboto said:
.

Seriously, Al-Qaeda didn't win in the sense that they took our country down, but they did put a big dent in our liberties and our ability to enjoy life without going through body scanners and being groped.
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LOL...they did not win. All they have done is invite hell to visit them daily since that date. :firedevil:

And, the alleged groping and scanning only applies if you make the choice to fly. I've flown 8 times this year and my colon is intact.
 
specmike said:
LOL...they did not win. All they have done is invite hell to visit them daily since that date. :firedevil:

And, the alleged groping and scanning only applies if you make the choice to fly. I've flown 8 times this year and my colon is intact.
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They will be expanding it to trains soon (actually they already started, I posted a video of pat downs AFTER the passengers were getting off a train) and they will be expanding it at roadside check-points, malls, stadiums, etc....

Also..in regards to the "they did not win" well, our government let us down...the governments philosophy is:
"They attacked us because they hate our freedom, so now we will give you Americans less freedom to keep you safe" which means they won.

10 years later, trillions of dollars later the "security" is quickly clamping down harder than ever before. 10 years from now what pattern should be expect based off of the last 10?
 
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