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Renew1

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Anyone here know the mechanism of action as to why some people experience lethargy on cycle?

Personally, I’ve never had trouble with it.

There are many possible reasons: liver toxicity, low Test, sugar fluctuations, sleep issues, possible direct side effect to a certain compound, etc ....
 
ValiantThor08

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If you can get blood glucose, liver value, and test levels in check, one could mitigate lethargy. IMO
 

saderboy80

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There are many possible reasons: liver toxicity, low Test, sugar fluctuations, sleep issues, possible direct side effect to a certain compound, etc ....
All good reasons, I didn’t think about those.

So are you saying some compounds are predisposed to lethargy?
 

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Vector by BLR

Think about including peptides like GHRP2 and modGRF. Will substantially increase IGF, to the point where you will be anabolic during PCT and after.
Never played around with peptides. What are the proposed benefits and subsequently the risks?


I have some learning to do on this topic.
 
Renew1

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All good reasons, I didn’t think about those.

So are you saying some compounds are predisposed to lethargy?

Yep.
People are different, so there are exceptions.
But SD is a good example for most.
MOST People experience lethargy on SD.
 
ValiantThor08

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Never played around with peptides. What are the proposed benefits and subsequently the risks?


I have some learning to do on this topic.
For GH peptides, one can get Ipamorelin and modGRF prescribed to them. It is very clean. The only side effects are temporary, and that include mild flushing, and the benefits are better sleep, and youthful IGF levels. GHRP2 is a stronger peptide, but not as selective, so it does increase cortisol, prolactin, and can make you hungry.
 

saderboy80

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Yep.
People are different, so there are exceptions.
But SD is a good example for most.
MOST People experience lethargy on SD.
I guess I was the lucky one who feels great on superdrol. If it didn’t effect my cholesterol levels and liver enzymes....I would take it year round.
 

saderboy80

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For GH peptides, one can get Ipamorelin and modGRF prescribed to them. It is very clean. The only side effects are temporary, and that include mild flushing, and the benefits are better sleep, and youthful IGF levels. GHRP2 is a stronger peptide, but not as selective, so it does increase cortisol, prolactin, and can make you hungry.
How does one go about getting these prescribed?
For reference I’m a fairly healthy 26yr old.
 
Renew1

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I guess I was the lucky one who feels great on superdrol. If it didn’t effect my cholesterol levels and liver enzymes....I would take it year round.

That's extremely rare.

Some guys get EXTREME lethargy on SD.
Some guys can't even take it.
 
ValiantThor08

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Easy enough.

What if I actually wanted a real prescription though?
Find a local natural path Doctor, or hit up viking alternative medicine, it's Sam Ridgeway live like a viking, and they prescribe that stuff. Getting it prescribed is substantially more than research grade.
 

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Find a local natural path Doctor, or hit up viking alternative medicine, it's Sam Ridgeway live like a viking, and they prescribe that stuff. Getting it prescribed is substantially more than research grade.
I suppose you mean substantially more expensive?
 
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Yeah that was the goal for including M1T in the cycle.

I feel like maybe we've talked about this before, but I can't remember for sure.

.... If you didn't experience any undesirable sides from SD, and you are now hunting something stronger than SD ...
There's a good chance that what you ran wasn't SD, or was extremely underdosed.

SD is the Strongest anabolic I've ever taken (over decades of steroid use ... errr ... Research. :) ).

And it gives the vast majority of users strong sides (myself included).
 

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I feel like maybe we've talked about this before, but I can't remember for sure.

.... If you didn't experience any undesirable sides from SD, and you are now hunting something stronger than SD ...
There's a good chance that what you ran wasn't SD, or was extremely underdosed.

SD is the Strongest anabolic I've ever taken (over decades of steroid use ... errr ... Research. :) ).

And it gives the vast majority of users strong sides (myself included).
I put on 20lbs and increased my bench 90lbs while on SD for 30days.
Crazy back pumps, sometimes headaches or nosebleeds. I would say it was real sd.
 
Renew1

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I put on 20lbs and increased my bench 90lbs while on SD for 30days.
Crazy back pumps, sometimes headaches or nosebleeds. I would say it was real sd.

Ahhh...
When you said that you felt great on SD, I of course assumed you meant you didn't get harsh sides.
But with those lackluster results, I can't blame you for moving on.

:)
 

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Ahhh...
When you said that you felt great on SD, I of course assumed you meant you didn't get harsh sides.
But with those lackluster results, I can't blame you for moving on.

:)
Basically was from high blood pressure. Back pumps were nothing some intra-workout taurine could fix.
Although the bloody noses happened every time I showered, which was more of an annoyance then anything.

You could say the gains were minimal at best on just superdrol
 

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What do you guys think about front loading the test E?
 

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What do you guys think about front loading the test E?
How long are you going to run it for?




Dont do it. You can grow off lower doses in the beginning and need to increase as cycle progress.

If i were to do my cycle again, i wouldnt do 500 from start, i would do 350 first 5 weeks and increase to 500 last 5 weeks

Make your cycle a pyramid up scheme if its anything longer than 6 weeks.
 

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How long are you going to run it for?




Dont do it. You can grow off lower doses in the beginning and need to increase as cycle progress.

If i were to do my cycle again, i wouldnt do 500 from start, i would do 350 first 5 weeks and increase to 500 last 5 weeks

Make your cycle a pyramid up scheme if its anything longer than 6 weeks.
Yeah that makes sense. So the concept that you should grow on the lowest doses before bumping it up.


12 week cycle. I just wanted it to get in my system faster.
 
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Yeah that makes sense. So the concept that you should grow on the lowest doses before bumping it up.


12 week cycle. I just wanted it to get in my system faster.
Maybe use a sustanon
 

CroLifter

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Yeah that makes sense. So the concept that you should grow on the lowest doses before bumping it up.


12 week cycle. I just wanted it to get in my system faster.
It is in your system fast. Test e injection peaks in about 24 hours.

Peak plasma levels take some time of course but thats good since you want to get the most out of the lower dose in the beginning since you can

2nd of all you will ge tthe test flu the faster your levels climb


I have sh1t natural levels, around 300 and a single 90mg shot of E gave me test flu for few days afterwards since even that small shot probably tripled my levelsl
 

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It is in your system fast. Test e injection peaks in about 24 hours.

Peak plasma levels take some time of course but thats good since you want to get the most out of the lower dose in the beginning since you can

2nd of all you will ge tthe test flu the faster your levels climb


I have sh1t natural levels, around 300 and a single 90mg shot of E gave me test flu for few days afterwards since even that small shot probably tripled my levelsl
Yes, I realize it’s in your system 24hrs after your injection. However it takes time to cleave off the ester chains, so that the testosterone molecule can bind to its androgen receptors.

I’m not familiar with the term “test flu” care to explain?
 

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Yes, I realize it’s in your system 24hrs after your injection. However it takes time to cleave off the ester chains, so that the testosterone molecule can bind to its androgen receptors.

I’m not familiar with the term “test flu” care to explain?
Testosterone itself, bioactive hormone peaks within 24 hours look at the charts.

PicsArt_08-07-04.47.23.png



Test flu is experiencing flu like symptoms, mainly elevated temperature and feeling run down due to your own immune system reacting to a unnatural surge of hormones.
 

saderboy80

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Testosterone itself, bioactive hormone peaks within 24 hours look at the charts.

View attachment 196344


Test flu is experiencing flu like symptoms, mainly elevated temperature and feeling run down due to your own immune system reacting to a unnatural surge of hormones.
That’s interesting, I always seem to find the opposite in my research. Care to share the article?

Not saying I don’t believe you. Just like to learn.
 

CroLifter

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That’s interesting, I always seem to find the opposite in my research. Care to share the article?

Not saying I don’t believe you. Just like to learn.
Lol there is no study its a fact that all testosterone esters except perhaps nebido produce a peak in testosterone levels 12 - 48 hours post administration as the sole act of inj3cting breaks up some of the ester.

Prop may peak in 12 hours, E in 24 hr, cyp in 48... of course prop has the highest peak and drops off the fastest, E less so etc etc

But they all peak pretty soon and if you are running low and pin a good amount you can feel it the same day, i couod feel enanthate sometimes that evening if i pinned like 200mg


Acetate (trenbolone) i definitely feel that day
 

saderboy80

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Lol there is no study its a fact that all testosterone esters except perhaps nebido produce a peak in testosterone levels 12 - 48 hours post administration as the sole act of inj3cting breaks up some of the ester.

Prop may peak in 12 hours, E in 24 hr, cyp in 48... of course prop has the highest peak and drops off the fastest, E less so etc etc

But they all peak pretty soon and if you are running low and pin a good amount you can feel it the same day, i couod feel enanthate sometimes that evening if i pinned like 200mg


Acetate (trenbolone) i definitely feel that day
Honestly I’ve never felt a difference that day..

And no “post administration as the sole act of injecting breaks up some of the ester.”

That’s not how it works...
Esterases break down the ester chains making the testosterone molecule bioavailable. Hence when longer esters have longer half lives.
 

saderboy80

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Anyways my source for HCG you have to spend a minimum of $200.

Can anyone PM a source for HCG?

Everything else is already in the mail!
 
Jinsun

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I previously listed my stats as 5’10”, 185 lbs and 15% body fat.

After straining/small tears to my left pec twice in the last 2 months. I have been lazy with my training, cardio and diet. II will be starting this cycle closer to 190lbs and 20% BF.

So it should be interesting to see the type of weight I put on. Because some of the weight gained will be the lost muscle mass over the past 2 months, and will be easier to gain back. Some fat loss/weight loss since I am now 20% BF. Obviously water, glycogen storage and more muscle mass will all attribute to weight gain.

It will be interesting to see how my weight fluctuates.
Dude, you have torn pecs, you aren't sleeping (you need 1g of quetiapine) ... and you are 20% body fat. Look, I am not the one to judge, but from an objective perspective; you are not in a position to mess with your hormones/do a cycle. Your sleep will worsen, you cant train hard bc of your pec and you have at least 5% of bf to loose before you can start worrying abput loosing muscle mass on a cut.

Honestly, get your diet in check, get your training protocol in check and most of all get your sleep sorted or at least improved. And let your pec heal. Don't rely on aas to improve your diet and training. You should already have that in check.
 

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Dude, you have torn pecs, you aren't sleeping (you need 1g of quetiapine) ... and you are 20% body fat. Look, I am not the one to judge, but from an objective perspective; you are not in a position to mess with your hormones/do a cycle. Your sleep will worsen, you cant train hard bc of your pec and you have at least 5% of bf to loose before you can start worrying abput loosing muscle mass on a cut.

Honestly, get your diet in check, get your training protocol in check and most of all get your sleep sorted or at least improved. And let your pec heal. Don't rely on aas to improve your diet and training. You should already have that in check.
My sleep is the best it has been in 8yrs. I explained this in another thread and yes I am on a lot of meds for sleep.

As far as my pecs go only 1 has been strained twice., maybe some micro tears.. This is the reason I took time off from working out. Hence gaining 5% fat and looking like sh*t. So yes I am letting my pec heal. I completely went all out bum status and got fat.

I have my diet all sorted out. I eat whole foods, high protein, high fiber and lots of vegetables. Carbs I eat 1/2cup of oatmeal prior to training, then I have an intra-workout drink (BCAA’s, carbs and some sodium). Post workout protein shake and the rest of my meals are protein and vegetables. With the occasional apple or banana. Otherwise no carb meals unless I feel really depleted. Which then I eat rice. I plan on going only on a 200cal surplus on cycle.

I have restarted cardio 30min 6x/week. Haven’t started back lifting yet.

My plan is to this Monday reincorporate weight lifting and gauge where my pec is at. As it will have been 3 weeks from the date I re-hurt my pec. Leave my ego at the door, because that is how a stained my pec. I was shooting for a 1 rep max.

I also never stated when I’m starting this cycle. I don’t have everything planned to a T yet. I’m very meticulous about my cycles.

When I am fully healed and back training regularly, I will stay that way for a couple of weeks. Get back down to 15% BF.

I also don’t have all my gear and ancillaries yet.

For me that means 30min of cardio x6/week and weight training a 4 day split with 1 rest day and then restart the 4 day split. I would like to think I train fairly hard. With supersets, drop sets , occasionally partials and then I do 1-2 sets of a body part to complete failure.

Day1 Legs
Day 2 chest and biceps
Day 3 back and triceps
Day 4 shoulders
Rest 1 day and restart cycle
I do 30 min of moderate intensity cardio 6x per week and abs every day.

I have a fairly strong foundation to work with despite taking time off.

I appreciate your concern and motivation to improve substantially before starting my cycle. I hope I addressed everything you are concerned with and appreciate you telling my straight how it is.
 
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Jinsun

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My sleep is the best it has been in 8yrs. I explained this in another thread and yes I am on a lot of meds for sleep.

As far as my pecs go only 1 has been strained twice., maybe some micro tears.. This is the reason I took time off from working out. Hence gaining 5% fat and looking like sh*t. So yes I am letting my pec heal. I completely went all out bum status and got fat.

I have my diet all sorted out. I eat whole foods, high protein, high fiber and lots of vegetables. Carbs I eat 1/2cup of oatmeal prior to training, then I have an intra-workout drink (BCAA’s, carbs and some sodium). Post workout protein shake and the rest of my meals are protein and vegetables. With the occasional apple or banana. Otherwise no carb meals unless I feel really depleted. Which then I eat rice. I plan on going only on a 200cal surplus on cycle.

I have restarted cardio 30min 6x/week. Haven’t started back lifting yet.

My plan is to this Monday reincorporate weight lifting and gauge where my pec is at. As it will have been 3 weeks from the date I re-hurt my pec. Leave my ego at the door, because that is how a stained my pec. I was shooting for a 1 rep max.

I also never stated when I’m starting this cycle. I don’t have everything planned to a T yet. I’m very meticulous about my cycles.

When I am fully healed and back training regularly, I will stay that way for a couple of weeks. Get back down to 15% BF.

I also don’t have all my gear and ancillaries yet.

For me that means 30min of cardio x6/week and weight training a 4 day split with 1 rest day and then restart the 4 day split. I would like to think I train fairly hard. With supersets, drop sets , occasionally partials and then I do 1-2 sets of a body part to complete failure.

Day1 Legs
Day 2 chest and biceps
Day 3 back and triceps
Day 4 shoulders
Rest 1 day and restart cycle
I do 30 min of moderate intensity cardio 6x per week and abs every day.

I have a fairly strong foundation to work with despite taking time off.

I appreciate your concern and motivation to improve substantially before starting my cycle. I hope I addressed everything you are concerned with and appreciate you telling my straight how it is.
So, you wont cycle right now, you didn't mention that or I must have missed it. Good. Get your chit in order and then do it. But honestly, for such severe insomniacs, cycling wont bring anything good to the table. How do you even function day to day, can you keep a job, do you have a life, will cycling help with those things? Sleep is really the number one thing that is going to make or break your progress in the gym - I know, I'm speaking from personal experience. And if you get to a point where your sleep is improved and you're off your sleeping meds, that's a big achievement, and you need to nurture that state - adding aas to the mix would just unbalance the whole thing and you'd be back to square one. Don't know what's the reason you aren't sleeping and when the problem started but again, sleeping is #1 and if you took sleeping as your #1 priority and it started to improve, your fitness goals would start to improve. Cycling is a band aid, you could probably get half way to where you want to come with your cycle, if you just started sleeping like a "normal" human being. And then when you get there, then start using aas.

Regarding the pec injury and cycling in general, you could do a peptides stack for some time and add bpc157 to that. If anything, peptides will improve your sleep. Also check epitalon, it helps restore melatonin production and reduces plaque. There's a thread on meso called "A must for those who use Trenabolone ...", check it. Anyway, restore your pec health b4 you start cycling. Pec tears take a long time to heal. You might think it's ok, but then in a few months time it happens again.

Regarding your programming, it is very sub optimal. You are training each body part 1x a week. Train each body part at least 2x a week if not 3x. Your legs for instance, on cycle, by wednesday, they will be fully recovered, but you wont train them till next week, same with other body parts. You are missing on a lot of growth this way. Also, if you squeeze all your training volume in to one day, you are again, wasting a lot of volume. There is a volume threshold, where you wont get more growth, but are basically just fatiguing yourself. And you are probably doing that on every single training day. You've got no business training legs for a whole session, same goes with back, arms, chest, etc. Check out Mike Israetels explanation's about MRV - maximal recoverable volume. Check out SRA curves, check out how much volume do you actually need for a specific body part to stimulate hypertrophy and how much rest is needed before you can hit it again. Hint: it's 1 to max 3 days. Big and heavy compound moves like DL's will tax your CNS a lot, requiring more rest ... Anyway, adjust your training routine.

What do you want to achieve with your cycle? Cut, recomp, bulk? I see you stated a 200kcal surplus, but on a cycle that wont be a bulk but a recomp. So you plan on going from 15% bf down to 12% and gaining some muscle mass? How is your cycle plan looking for that? Recomp is the hardest to achieve and you need the strongest aas to do that. SD would be the perfect choice for that. Test isn't good enough, you need DHB or Primo or Tren (don't do tren you wont sleep at all), ... etc. You need high/effective dosages for that. You still got some thinking to do imo.
 
Jinsun

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Fitness/bodybuilding is a life style, that is supposed to compliment your life not hinder it. And fitness in general is meant to be a balance act. You achieve your greatest fitness goal when you are sleeping, training and eating properly. Taking care of those variables is the game and not stuffing yourself with drugs. That's just addict behavior. Taking care of programming, nutrition, and again, sleeping : ), is what should be the challenge/fun and not how many drugs can you stuff your face with and ruin your life for the sake of some temporary gains. I know drugs are fun, but they are also dangerous, and I don't mean in the "you'll clog your arteries or you'll end up on TRT" kind of dangerous, but on creating addictive patterns of behavior that mess up your life.

If you take fitness as I mentioned, it will bring order and balance to your life. But if you are just pushing drugs in an already unbalanced equation, that is destructive.
 

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Damn @Jinsun getting poetic up in this b1tch


I am eager to know reasoning behind your recent bashing of test only? I mean yeah, of course that adding tren is going to be better but that isnt an option in all cases.

Having done some tren and while it is on another level, i still think test only is very very effective. Add some peptides alongside and thats a great cycle right there.
 
Jinsun

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Damn @Jinsun getting poetic up in this b1tch


I am eager to know reasoning behind your recent bashing of test only? I mean yeah, of course that adding tren is going to be better but that isnt an option in all cases.

Having done some tren and while it is on another level, i still think test only is very very effective. Add some peptides alongside and thats a great cycle right there.
In this case I said it's not enough for a proper recomp. 15% bf is a lot of fat to lose. Just 400 test would be enough to help keep muscle mass at that stage but not for a recomp. I mean dont get me wrong, it's enough for a recomp if your cycle will be 6 months long.
 

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So, you wont cycle right now, you didn't mention that or I must have missed it. Good. Get your chit in order and then do it. But honestly, for such severe insomniacs, cycling wont bring anything good to the table. How do you even function day to day, can you keep a job, do you have a life, will cycling help with those things? Sleep is really the number one thing that is going to make or break your progress in the gym - I know, I'm speaking from personal experience. And if you get to a point where your sleep is improved and you're off your sleeping meds, that's a big achievement, and you need to nurture that state - adding aas to the mix would just unbalance the whole thing and you'd be back to square one. Don't know what's the reason you aren't sleeping and when the problem started but again, sleeping is #1 and if you took sleeping as your #1 priority and it started to improve, your fitness goals would start to improve. Cycling is a band aid, you could probably get half way to where you want to come with your cycle, if you just started sleeping like a "normal" human being. And then when you get there, then start using aas.

Regarding the pec injury and cycling in general, you could do a peptides stack for some time and add bpc157 to that. If anything, peptides will improve your sleep. Also check epitalon, it helps restore melatonin production and reduces plaque. There's a thread on meso called "A must for those who use Trenabolone ...", check it. Anyway, restore your pec health b4 you start cycling. Pec tears take a long time to heal. You might think it's ok, but then in a few months time it happens again.

Regarding your programming, it is very sub optimal. You are training each body part 1x a week. Train each body part at least 2x a week if not 3x. Your legs for instance, on cycle, by wednesday, they will be fully recovered, but you wont train them till next week, same with other body parts. You are missing on a lot of growth this way. Also, if you squeeze all your training volume in to one day, you are again, wasting a lot of volume. There is a volume threshold, where you wont get more growth, but are basically just fatiguing yourself. And you are probably doing that on every single training day. You've got no business training legs for a whole session, same goes with back, arms, chest, etc. Check out Mike Israetels explanation's about MRV - maximal recoverable volume. Check out SRA curves, check out how much volume do you actually need for a specific body part to stimulate hypertrophy and how much rest is needed before you can hit it again. Hint: it's 1 to max 3 days. Big and heavy compound moves like DL's will tax your CNS a lot, requiring more rest ... Anyway, adjust your training routine.

What do you want to achieve with your cycle? Cut, recomp, bulk? I see you stated a 200kcal surplus, but on a cycle that wont be a bulk but a recomp. So you plan on going from 15% bf down to 12% and gaining some muscle mass? How is your cycle plan looking for that? Recomp is the hardest to achieve and you need the strongest aas to do that. SD would be the perfect choice for that. Test isn't good enough, you need DHB or Primo or Tren (don't do tren you wont sleep at all), ... etc. You need high/effective dosages for that. You still got some thinking to do imo.
Yes, I can keep a full time job. While simultaneously being close to finishing my Masters degree in Biomedical Science. As I previously have said my sleep is the best it’s ever been. I’ve seen world renowned psychiatrists (Cleveland clinic, Rush in Chicago and Mayo Clinic), neurologists, sleep psychologists, regular therapists, psychologists. I’ve done over night sleep studies hooked up to an EEG, EkG, pulse ox and video monitored. Just about any other test or bloodwork you can do. I get bloodwork done every 3 months because of this. They have collected spinal fluid, blood samples, urine samples, ran genetic tests etc. No, I cannot sleep without heavy sedation and trust me I have tried to wean off medications, tried many medications and combinations of medications (all supervised by a psychiatrist), tried more natural alternatives: melatonin, zma, CBD oil, and even a short stint of kratom. So we can drop that topic.

Only recently from quarantine and pec injuries have I let myself go. I’ve been down to 8% BF, benched 315, squatted 450, deadlift 450, overhead pressed 225lbs for reps (all at 185lbs). I have a solid foundation and I know how to train. At my level of intensity there is no way I could train x3/week per body part. Right now I train them 1 1/2 times per week. Maybe I could up it to 2 times per week per body part, while on cycle I could probably get away with it.

I will however look into the programming you stated. I am always happy to learn more about fitness, training and nutrition. And I’ll look up epitalon.

Yes, I’m looking to recomp. Hence the 200kcal surplus. The goal is to cut down to 10% BF, while slowly increasing muscle mass.

My cycle:
Week 1-4 Sustanon 250mg
Week 1-4 test E 250mg
Week 1-4 Cardarine (haven’t decided dose yet)
Week 1-4 M1T 20mg (May up it to 40 if sides aren’t bad), if sides are too terrible I have sdrol as a backup

Week 5-12 test E 500mg
Week 9-12 Anavar 50mg
Week 9-12 Epistane start at 30mg May go up to 60mg (again depends on the side effects)
Week 1-12 mk677 25mg

Some other guys have also recommended peptides and bpc157. I’m still researching them, as I’ve never used anything but mk677.

Besides letting myself go because of gyms being closed and injuries I know how to diet and train.

Yes, I have more to learn and that’s why I’m on this forum and seeking help.

I agree with most everything you are saying but you are suggesting I am a total newbie to fitness/training/dieting. That’s not the case.


You also will probably bag on me for trying M1T but as I said I get bloodwork done every 3 months. My psychiatrist and sleep psychologist both know I’m taking gear. They are okay with it unless it effects my sleep.

Really I’m just here to learn and receive feedback from more experienced users. I’m not here to log my cycle.
 

saderboy80

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Fitness/bodybuilding is a life style, that is supposed to compliment your life not hinder it. And fitness in general is meant to be a balance act. You achieve your greatest fitness goal when you are sleeping, training and eating properly. Taking care of those variables is the game and not stuffing yourself with drugs. That's just addict behavior. Taking care of programming, nutrition, and again, sleeping : ), is what should be the challenge/fun and not how many drugs can you stuff your face with and ruin your life for the sake of some temporary gains. I know drugs are fun, but they are also dangerous, and I don't mean in the "you'll clog your arteries or you'll end up on TRT" kind of dangerous, but on creating addictive patterns of behavior that mess up your life.

If you take fitness as I mentioned, it will bring order and balance to your life. But if you are just pushing drugs in an already unbalanced equation, that is destructive.
I’m not destructive or addicted with my cycles. I might be addicted to improving my aesthetics and have some body dysmorphia. My dieting and training both help with my sleep. Plus I just plain love and enjoy the lifestyle.

I realize you are trying to help and I appreciate it. But some constructive criticism and help planning my cycle or helping me learn about HCG, peptides and bpc157 would be much more helpful.


I already know everything you are spewing out at me. I don’t plan on just running a cycle and getting a bunch of side effects, then losing all I gained and go back to where I was pre-cycle.
 

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Damn @Jinsun getting poetic up in this b1tch


I am eager to know reasoning behind your recent bashing of test only? I mean yeah, of course that adding tren is going to be better but that isnt an option in all cases.

Having done some tren and while it is on another level, i still think test only is very very effective. Add some peptides alongside and thats a great cycle right there.
I don’t plan on running tren, it would hinder my sleep even more. I plan on running test with some orals.

What peptides would be most beneficial? I’m not well educated on the topic yet.
 
Jinsun

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Yes, I can keep a full time job. While simultaneously being close to finishing my Masters degree in Biomedical Science. As I previously have said my sleep is the best it’s ever been. I’ve seen world renowned psychiatrists (Cleveland clinic, Rush in Chicago and Mayo Clinic), neurologists, sleep psychologists, regular therapists, psychologists. I’ve done over night sleep studies hooked up to an EEG, EkG, pulse ox and video monitored. Just about any other test or bloodwork you can do. I get bloodwork done every 3 months because of this. They have collected spinal fluid, blood samples, urine samples, ran genetic tests etc. No, I cannot sleep without heavy sedation and trust me I have tried to wean off medications, tried many medications and combinations of medications (all supervised by a psychiatrist), tried more natural alternatives: melatonin, zma, CBD oil, and even a short stint of kratom. So we can drop that topic.

Only recently from quarantine and pec injuries have I let myself go. I’ve been down to 8% BF, benched 315, squatted 450, deadlift 450, overhead pressed 225lbs for reps (all at 185lbs). I have a solid foundation and I know how to train. At my level of intensity there is no way I could train x3/week per body part. Right now I train them 1 1/2 times per week. Maybe I could up it to 2 times per week per body part, while on cycle I could probably get away with it.

I will however look into the programming you stated. I am always happy to learn more about fitness, training and nutrition. And I’ll look up epitalon.

Yes, I’m looking to recomp. Hence the 200kcal surplus. The goal is to cut down to 10% BF, while slowly increasing muscle mass.

My cycle:
Week 1-4 Sustanon 250mg
Week 1-4 test E 250mg
Week 1-4 Cardarine (haven’t decided dose yet)
Week 1-4 M1T 20mg (May up it to 40 if sides aren’t bad), if sides are too terrible I have sdrol as a backup

Week 5-12 test E 500mg
Week 9-12 Anavar 50mg
Week 9-12 Epistane start at 30mg May go up to 60mg (again depends on the side effects)
Week 1-12 mk677 25mg

Some other guys have also recommended peptides and bpc157. I’m still researching them, as I’ve never used anything but mk677.

Besides letting myself go because of gyms being closed and injuries I know how to diet and train.

Yes, I have more to learn and that’s why I’m on this forum and seeking help.

I agree with most everything you are saying but you are suggesting I am a total newbie to fitness/training/dieting. That’s not the case.


You also will probably bag on me for trying M1T but as I said I get bloodwork done every 3 months. My psychiatrist and sleep psychologist both know I’m taking gear. They are okay with it unless it effects my sleep.

Really I’m just here to learn and receive feedback from more experienced users. I’m not here to log my cycle.
Lot's of orals. If that's your thing do it. Is it enough to lose 5% bf on a recomp, I don't think so. It wouldn't be enough for me. Adding a nother injectable would be my suggestion. Doesn't need to be dosed that high seeing as you have a good amount of orals already planned. 5% bf, what is that for you? 15 pounds?

Regarding sleep; if you function normally that's a nother story. That's why I asked. But still, messing with cycles is not a good idea. But I've said me peace so ... I wont bother you any more with it.

Training protocol geard towards hypetrophy will yield best results when you take into account the sra curve combined with the necessary volume needed to induce growth. You are saying you train intensive? That again just sounds like you have to high of a volume. I'm repeating my self here but let me say it again: you do not need to "kill" your legs on monday in order for them to grow. You are, again; overextending your volume. The amount of work you put into your legs on monday is overkill. At a certain point of volume (sets taken near or to failure) you are only fatiguing your self and not contributing to growth. For instance; you do 24 sets of for legs on monday, but anything beyond 12 is very low yield and beyond 18 is only fatiguing. Understand? You would get more out of growth if you did 8 sets on monday, 4 on wednesday and 8 on friday. Just spitting some numbers here but you get the point. What you have going on there is basically a bro split.

Look, I realise you are not a totall newb, but you still don't know, for example, what hcg is, you don't know much about volume and training periodisation, etc. All of this are pretty noob stuff. No pun intended. I'm not bashing you, but you said you arent a noob but shure do sound like one.

You've been given ton of advice by me thus far so no reason on insinuatig that all I'm doing is unconstructively criticising you. I had no idea about the details of your life/sleep. And as for other stuff: cycle isn't the best for a recomp and neither is training protocol. But I'm sure you'll get there.

Dont know if you explained this already but why use sust?
 

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Lot's of orals. If that's your thing do it. Is it enough to lose 5% bf on a recomp, I don't think so. It wouldn't be enough for me. Adding a nother injectable would be my suggestion. Doesn't need to be dosed that high seeing as you have a good amount of orals already planned. 5% bf, what is that for you? 15 pounds?

Regarding sleep; if you function normally that's a nother story. That's why I asked. But still, messing with cycles is not a good idea. But I've said me peace so ... I wont bother you any more with it.

Training protocol geard towards hypetrophy will yield best results when you take into account the sra curve combined with the necessary volume needed to induce growth. You are saying you train intensive? That again just sounds like you have to high of a volume. I'm repeating my self here but let me say it again: you do not need to "kill" your legs on monday in order for them to grow. You are, again; overextending your volume. The amount of work you put into your legs on monday is overkill. At a certain point of volume (sets taken near or to failure) you are only fatiguing your self and not contributing to growth. For instance; you do 24 sets of for legs on monday, but anything beyond 12 is very low yield and beyond 18 is only fatiguing. Understand? You would get more out of growth if you did 8 sets on monday, 4 on wednesday and 8 on friday. Just spitting some numbers here but you get the point. What you have going on there is basically a bro split.

Look, I realise you are not a totall newb, but you still don't know, for example, what hcg is, you don't know much about volume and training periodisation, etc. All of this are pretty noob stuff. No pun intended. I'm not bashing you, but you said you arent a noob but shure do sound like one.

You've been given ton of advice by me thus far so no reason on insinuatig that all I'm doing is unconstructively criticising you. I had no idea about the details of your life/sleep. And as for other stuff: cycle isn't the best for a recomp and neither is training protocol. But I'm sure you'll get there.

Dont know if you explained this already but why use sust?
I just went through the MRV protocol and it seems like a load of bullsh*t to me... He’s just utilizing new dialect for things Ive already implemented. I don’t believe in overextending your volume. I train both with volume and intensity and that’s how I grow best. I’d much rather train to at or near failure and feel like I had an intense workout. Then training enough to stimulate the muscle but not over-reach. The only way you can over train is if you under recover (not enough sleep or enough calories).
I prefer to train more like Greg Doucette or Tom Platz. Train to failure then do partials or drop sets until you can’t squeeze out anymore. Then next session increase volume or increase weight (or both).

So saying I’m a newbie to training is also a load of sh*t...
 

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I just went through the MRV protocol and it seems like a load of bullsh*t to me... He’s just utilizing new dialect for things Ive already implemented. I don’t believe in overextending your volume. I train both with volume and intensity and that’s how I grow best. I’d much rather train to at or near failure and feel like I had an intense workout. Then training enough to stimulate the muscle but not over-reach. The only way you can over train is if you under recover (not enough sleep or enough calories).
I prefer to train more like Greg Doucette or Tom Platz. Train to failure then do partials or drop sets until you can’t squeeze out anymore. Then next session increase volume or increase weight (or both).

So saying I’m a newbie to training is also a load of sh*t...
I find that off cycle my best bet is to train for strength and ON gear i do better off with absoluteely annihilating muscles and also doing a bunch of isolations, going for the feel and the pump.



But i am not a big fan of cutting cycles on gear. If i was you i would run some peptides till i got to the bf i wanna be at (if you are on trt bump it up to 200-250 of test a week)

And then do this cycle you outlined but in a caloric surplus. Imo m1t man, thats simply a waste on a caloric deficit, it has so much mass gaining potential.
 
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saderboy80

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I find that off cycle my best bet is to train for strength and ON gear i do better off with absoluteely annihilating muscles and also doing a bunch of isolations, going for the feel and the pump.



But i am not a big fan of cutting cycles on gear. If i was you i would run some peptides till i got to the bf i wanna be at (if you are on trt bump it up to 200-250 of test a week)

And then do this cycle you outlined but in a caloric surplus. Imo m1t man, thats simply a waste on a caloric deficit, it has so much mass gaining potential.
What do you think of using M1T on a recomp with 200kcal surplus?


I train with a strong mind muscle connection, lots of time under tension, and heavy weight.
 

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What do you think of using M1T on a recomp with 200kcal surplus?
Ehh i just think its better suited for an all out bulk


I think that the closest t to yourgoals is sth like this

250- 300 test
200 tren or 600 + primo if you got the money
4 iu gh per day

That would be my dream cycle, 250-300 test, 150 - 200 tren ace and 4 iu gh per day. And i reckon your bloodwork wpuld more or less stay ok on this compared to on even 40mg of anavar

And lots of food and creatine 😀
 

saderboy80

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Ehh i just think its better suited for an all out bulk


I think that the closest t to yourgoals is sth like this

250- 300 test
200 tren or 600 + primo if you got the money
4 iu gh per day

That would be my dream cycle, 250-300 test, 150 - 200 tren ace and 4 iu gh per day. And i reckon your bloodwork wpuld more or less stay ok on this compared to on even 40mg of anavar

And lots of food and creatine
What about a bulk for 4 weeks on M1T ?
Then recomp on just test for 4 weeks. Then recomp on test,anavar and epistane?
 

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Lot's of orals. If that's your thing do it. Is it enough to lose 5% bf on a recomp, I don't think so. It wouldn't be enough for me. Adding a nother injectable would be my suggestion. Doesn't need to be dosed that high seeing as you have a good amount of orals already planned. 5% bf, what is that for you? 15 pounds?

Regarding sleep; if you function normally that's a nother story. That's why I asked. But still, messing with cycles is not a good idea. But I've said me peace so ... I wont bother you any more with it.

Training protocol geard towards hypetrophy will yield best results when you take into account the sra curve combined with the necessary volume needed to induce growth. You are saying you train intensive? That again just sounds like you have to high of a volume. I'm repeating my self here but let me say it again: you do not need to "kill" your legs on monday in order for them to grow. You are, again; overextending your volume. The amount of work you put into your legs on monday is overkill. At a certain point of volume (sets taken near or to failure) you are only fatiguing your self and not contributing to growth. For instance; you do 24 sets of for legs on monday, but anything beyond 12 is very low yield and beyond 18 is only fatiguing. Understand? You would get more out of growth if you did 8 sets on monday, 4 on wednesday and 8 on friday. Just spitting some numbers here but you get the point. What you have going on there is basically a bro split.

Look, I realise you are not a totall newb, but you still don't know, for example, what hcg is, you don't know much about volume and training periodisation, etc. All of this are pretty noob stuff. No pun intended. I'm not bashing you, but you said you arent a noob but shure do sound like one.

You've been given ton of advice by me thus far so no reason on insinuatig that all I'm doing is unconstructively criticising you. I had no idea about the details of your life/sleep. And as for other stuff: cycle isn't the best for a recomp and neither is training protocol. But I'm sure you'll get there.

Dont know if you explained this already but why use sust?
I know what HCG is and what it does. Just didn’t know the proper protocol for it. It was recommended that I inject 250iu every other day with slin pins and subQ during the whole cycle

Yes you have given a lot of solid advice and are looking out for my health. Which I do appreciate, so I don’t mean to argue with you. It just grinds my gears when people tell me to fix my training or talk about my sleep (as if I haven’t done everything possible to maximize my sleep).

What other injectable would you u recommend alongside 500mg/week test E and the orals?

Previously I had asked about EQ or NPP but was given advice not to run them. What do you think then? Maybe some primo or masteron?

As far as the sustanon goes I like that it has the 2 shorter esters. So it would be in my system and working before the test E starts to shine. Yeah I realize peak levels of test E are around 24hrs but last time I ran test e it took a couple of weeks to feel anything.

Like I’ve said on other threads, I am just trying to learn and meticulously plan out my cycles to maximize the results. Hence why I ask so many questions.
 
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