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CroLifter

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Feeling wise it's like dbol only better. Felt like a god on only 250 ... I couldn'y sleep on it as it really elevated my heart rate. So when it was time to sleep I was still to energetic. Seeing as you have severe insomnia, worse then me, I would advise against it. But I would advise against any hormone manipulation tbh. All aas will mess with your head and make things worse. If you can't sleep you cant live. Throwing aas in to the mix is imo playing with your life ...
Fuk it, you gotta try it to know

You cant live in fear 😀

I used to have terrible bouts of insomnia as a teenager, i would not sleep for 3 days, at all

But even during the height of my test and masteron cycle (800mg total for less than 2 weeks brfore i couldnt take no more haha), even though i was getting SEVERE anxiety and panic attacks, i slept without a problem.

A cup of lavender tea, some relaxing music, a bit of magnesium...it helps.


But i generally am a person who finds it hard to doze off..its not that i cant...but i dont want to haha, always thinking about sth, want to watch another video etc

But gear doesnt mess with my sleep at all.


Oh i forgot. Mk677... amazing sleep, it may help if you got insomnia.
 
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Mathb33

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Feeling wise it's like dbol only better. Felt like a god on only 250 ... I couldn'y sleep on it as it really elevated my heart rate. So when it was time to sleep I was still to energetic. Seeing as you have severe insomnia, worse then me, I would advise against it. But I would advise against any hormone manipulation tbh. All aas will mess with your head and make things worse. If you can't sleep you cant live. Throwing aas in to the mix is imo playing with your life ...
Did you stop taking AAS or something? You sound like someone that’s super against it now
 

CroLifter

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@Jinsun you say you felt like a god on npp

19 nors seem to mess with the dopamine system

Even on this extremely low dose of tren ace i sporadically get hit throughout the day with these weird, euphoria like moments where i just feel insanely good for no reason

Stacking with 240mg of test (weird ass number i know) but still test never put me into this euphoria like state outside of the gym.

and this euphoria seems to be predictable, happens that evening on the injection day, so rpughly 12 hours post test e and tren a injection
 
Mathb33

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You guys lucky lol. I don’t feel this euphoria or this dopamine boost-type effect. Obviously the reason being I’m never completely "off". I do remember it though.
 
Ironpirate

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SD of course, haven’t ran m1t because I don’t see why a bodybuilder would use this drug. I’ve seen many friends, many people in my private groups run it and at the end of the day it was mostly getting big, full of water. Once all of that was gone not that much muscle was actually built. Not more than any other strong oral would.
That was my exact experience the one time I ran it for 3 weeks. The strength and recovery was insane though. It's such a drastic physical change that people will think you have some sort of illness when it's all said and done.
 

saderboy80

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Feeling wise it's like dbol only better. Felt like a god on only 250 ... I couldn'y sleep on it as it really elevated my heart rate. So when it was time to sleep I was still to energetic. Seeing as you have severe insomnia, worse then me, I would advise against it. But I would advise against any hormone manipulation tbh. All aas will mess with your head and make things worse. If you can't sleep you cant live. Throwing aas in to the mix is imo playing with your life ...
Yeah definitely not trying to mess with my sleep!
 
Mathb33

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That was my exact experience the one time I ran it for 3 weeks. The strength and recovery was insane though. It's such a drastic physical change that people will think you have some sort of illness when it's all said and done.
Yep! The reality of m1t is pretty much that and that’s why you don’t see it used at all in the bodybuilding world.
 
Jinsun

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Did you stop taking AAS or something? You sound like someone that’s super against it now
I'm against stupid cycling heh. And I'm against cycling all the time. It just messes you up to much. It's a bit different for those that bc, but for us that cycle ... it's feeling like god for 3 months, then it's feeling like chit, no agression, no libido, self image goes down, bad sleep, etc. for at least 4 weeks plus the time serms clear out you system. Then you have to wait a month or more to get your libido fully back and then you have to wait a month more to get back to 100%. And even then you still might have some hormone fluctuations. So the recovery is long as hell. And by the time you are finally normal, you cycle again b/c it's time on + pct right? Stupid rule, it should be one cycle per year, period. And even that should be really smartly integrated in the training routine. B/c if you cycle like once per year, you are going to drop down to your natty limit. And if you mess up your sleep, your natty limit is going to be even lower. Ok, rant over : )
 

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I'm against stupid cycling heh. And I'm against cycling all the time. It just messes you up to much. It's a bit different for those that bc, but for us that cycle ... it's feeling like god for 3 months, then it's feeling like chit, no agression, no libido, self image goes down, bad sleep, etc. for at least 4 weeks plus the time serms clear out you system. Then you have to wait a month or more to get your libido fully back and then you have to wait a month more to get back to 100%. And even then you still might have some hormone fluctuations. So the recovery is long as hell. And by the time you are finally normal, you cycle again b/c it's time on + pct right? Stupid rule, it should be one cycle per year, period. And even that should be really smartly integrated in the training routine. B/c if you cycle like once per year, you are going to drop down to your natty limit. And if you mess up your sleep, your natty limit is going to be even lower. Ok, rant over : )
When you start to cycle...you either feel normal, or you are off cycle.
 
Mathb33

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I'm against stupid cycling heh. And I'm against cycling all the time. It just messes you up to much. It's a bit different for those that bc, but for us that cycle ... it's feeling like god for 3 months, then it's feeling like chit, no agression, no libido, self image goes down, bad sleep, etc. for at least 4 weeks plus the time serms clear out you system. Then you have to wait a month or more to get your libido fully back and then you have to wait a month more to get back to 100%. And even then you still might have some hormone fluctuations. So the recovery is long as hell. And by the time you are finally normal, you cycle again b/c it's time on + pct right? Stupid rule, it should be one cycle per year, period. And even that should be really smartly integrated in the training routine. B/c if you cycle like once per year, you are going to drop down to your natty limit. And if you mess up your sleep, your natty limit is going to be even lower. Ok, rant over : )
You explained so well why doing steroids is even more stupid when you’re PCTING. your explanation of it was perfect. Am I saying everyone should blast and cruise? Absolutely not. I think both are stupid. I did a couple PH cycle when I was younger and stuff and that was it. I came back 7 years later to this world because I was getting on trt and I was like now that I’m already committed to this, NOW might as well cycle. So yeah I think PCT is an awful idea because of how you’ll basically be yo-yoing all year round except if you do ONE cycle a year. ONE. Ideally people who cycle would be people already on TRT or with low test willing to be on trt. Anything else in my eyes is bad moves and is eventually going to end up on trt.
 

CroLifter

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You explained so well why doing steroids is even more stupid when you’re PCTING. your explanation of it was perfect. Am I saying everyone should blast and cruise? Absolutely not. I think both are stupid. I did a couple PH cycle when I was younger and stuff and that was it. I came back 7 years later to this world because I was getting on trt and I was like now that I’m already committed to this, NOW might as well cycle. So yeah I think PCT is an awful idea because of how you’ll basically be yo-yoing all year round except if you do ONE cycle a year. ONE. Ideally people who cycle would be people already on TRT or with low test willing to be on trt. Anything else in my eyes is bad moves and is eventually going to end up on trt.
There is a catch, as far as being on trt a prerequisite for gear.

Most want to cycle in their prime, in their 20s and majority isnt on trt in their 20s

If every9ne first waited for natty test to drop and then start roing gear they would be starting put in their 40s or 50s, and imho, a lot more things can go wrong when you start pushing 50 being a risk factor for heart disease in itself, and then you add tons of androgens on top of it.

Any kind of competitions you can forget abput if you start that lste, except recreational or amateur level.
 
Jinsun

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You explained so well why doing steroids is even more stupid when you’re PCTING. your explanation of it was perfect. Am I saying everyone should blast and cruise? Absolutely not. I think both are stupid. I did a couple PH cycle when I was younger and stuff and that was it. I came back 7 years later to this world because I was getting on trt and I was like now that I’m already committed to this, NOW might as well cycle. So yeah I think PCT is an awful idea because of how you’ll basically be yo-yoing all year round except if you do ONE cycle a year. ONE. Ideally people who cycle would be people already on TRT or with low test willing to be on trt. Anything else in my eyes is bad moves and is eventually going to end up on trt.
Yeah, actually imo high trt with a bit of primo or deca, year long, with an eye on organ health and bloods, is the way to go. Like 250 test + 100 primo . Or 150 test + 200 primo maybe better ... maybe add some peps or gh to the mix.
 
Mathb33

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Yeah, actually imo high trt with a bit of primo or deca, year long, with an eye on organ health and bloods, is the way to go. Like 250 test + 100 primo . Or 150 test + 200 primo maybe better ... maybe add some peps or gh to the mix.
It really is. As you said with a close look to your diet, good supps, close look into your blood works and organs, I definitely believe it is a lot less damaging than some things we can do. Of course I would be lying if I said I was folowing that idea right now, as I have certain goals and plan to compete possibly, but one thing is sure in 2-3 years I am done with big blasts and will fully switch to some type of protocols like you said and prioritize health and longitivity.
 
Smont

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Yeah, actually imo high trt with a bit of primo or deca, year long, with an eye on organ health and bloods, is the way to go. Like 250 test + 100 primo . Or 150 test + 200 primo maybe better ... maybe add some peps or gh to the mix.
Lots of guys take this approach after there done with bodybuilding or done with all out bulking trying to get huge. They take there trt, 2iu of gh and a little insulin. They add stuff like primo and the very occasional oral for fun. At least that's what I've read and heard some people like John meadows and a few older guys talk about
 
Mathb33

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Lots of guys take this approach after there done with bodybuilding or done with all out bulking trying to get huge. They take there trt, 2iu of gh and a little insulin. They add stuff like primo and the very occasional oral for fun. At least that's what I've read and heard some people like John meadows and a few older guys talk about
Yup. In reality once you got the size you wanted you really don’t have to take risks anymore and these guys mostly all abused steroids for a few years to reach their crazy ass size so it makes sense that once it’s reached they play safe, just keep their size.
 
Smont

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Yup. In reality once you got the size you wanted you really don’t have to take risks anymore and these guys mostly all abused steroids for a few years to reach their crazy ass size so it makes sense that once it’s reached they play safe, just keep their size.
I believe it was meadows who likes to use that approach for the offseasons and kick up the cycle for contest prep only. This was later in his career tho, not the early years
 

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Yeah, actually imo high trt with a bit of primo or deca, year long, with an eye on organ health and bloods, is the way to go. Like 250 test + 100 primo . Or 150 test + 200 primo maybe better ... maybe add some peps or gh to the mix.
Honestly i would rather be on a true trt, not that high or high normal stuff, minimum dose that lets me feel normal and not have to us ean ai and then have a proper blast like once a year, or 2 very short 6 week blasts per year.

Just my opinion, but i think that it is ridicoulous to think that 400mg of test will kill us while 250 will not. On 400 deleterious effects will show sooner, sure, but still both doses contain the same compound causing the same sides

There is a range of test levels where human body like to function optimally and i dont think staying at the very top all the time is necssarily good. Not saying it will kill you, it may not, but so 400mg maybe wouldnt kill you, same as 250.

So i would keep my test levels mid range if i was on trt and ESPECIALLY if i knew i wanted to blast (and lets be real, who here wont blast once he doesnt have to worry about shutdown, come on).
Doesnt mean i need to be 900 if i am on trt if i feel completely fine on 500 ng/dl.

But, like i said, just my opinion. Anyone can and will do whatever the f they want to.


Those with performance in mind of course are going to cruise on higher but again, they are doing it for the gains, not to avoid low t.
 
Smont

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Honestly i would rather be on a true trt, not that high or high normal stuff, minimum dose that lets me feel normal and not have to us ean ai and then have a proper blast like once a year, or 2 very short 6 week blasts per year.

Just my opinion, but i think that it is ridicoulous to think that 400mg of test will kill us while 250 will not. On 400 deleterious effects will show sooner, sure, but still both doses contain the same compound causing the same sides

There is a range of test levels where human body like to function optimally and i dont think staying at the very top all the time is necssarily good. Not saying it will kill you, it may not, but so 400mg maybe wouldnt kill you, same as 250.

So i would keep my test levels mid range if i was on trt and ESPECIALLY if i knew i wanted to blast (and lets be real, who here wont blast once he doesnt have to worry about shutdown, come on).
Doesnt mean i need to be 900 if i am on trt if i feel completely fine on 500 ng/dl.

But, like i said, just my opinion. Anyone can and will do whatever the f they want to.


Those with performance in mind of course are going to cruise on higher but again, they are doing it for the gains, not to avoid low t.
I separate the words trt and cruise, trt is a replacement dose, there is no high trt. If your above the reference range your not replacing, your cruising at superphysiological testosterone levels.
Now I dont personally care what anyone does. If you wanna stay on 250 or 500 year round and add more to call it a cycle, go for it. But dont dont call your 250+ mg doses trt. It's one of my stupid pet peeves heading a high or hefty dose of trt. At the same time I know ppl have just become accustomed to saying it.

Like hgh, there is no hgh anymore. Human growth hormone comes from cadavers. What we have access to is gh, growth hormone. Lol if I only cared as much about things that are actually important 😁
 
Jinsun

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Everything has sides. Even gh at 4iu gives many users colon polyps. We were discussing this on meso the other time, and people are like, yeah I bave a colonoscopy once a year and they remove any polyps I might have. And then a nother users say yeah me to ... etc. And I'm like, mkey ... no thank you. I mean in the end there are a lot of hoops you have to jump through that you might not have though of beforehand.

But yeah, 250 test, some primo/deca and 2 iu gh is somewhat of a norm for a cruise. I think, if I was able to sleep and function normally on this, I'd be a millionaire in a 2 or 3 years time. It's just the drive and confidence that you get from it. Similar with benzos. So many successful people wouldn't be there without them. But there is a price to pay. Look at Jordan Peterson. He was on SSRI's and benzos for the last 3 years, basically when he became most prominent. But look at the price he had to pay afterwards. It's either a long life or a shorter but more "lived" one. Cruising will shorten your life, let's not kid ourselfs here.
 

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Thoughts on needing HCG for PCT? M1T is pretty suppressive to say the least.

M1T came yesterday. All the other goodies are in the mail!
 

saderboy80

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Thoughts on needing HCG for PCT. M1T is pretty suppressive to say the last.

M1T came yesterday. All the other goodies are in the mail!
 

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Thoughts on needing HCG for PCT. M1T is pretty suppressive to say the last.

M1T came yesterday. All the other goodies are in the mail!
Well if you blast some hcg before starting a serm you will avoid that initial feeling like sh1t period while your testes are waking up.

At least from my experience.
 
Smont

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Well if you blast some hcg before starting a serm you will avoid that initial feeling like sh1t period while your testes are waking up.

At least from my experience.
If you got HCG I'd blast like 750-1000 iu eod while the test is clearing then start your serm. After some trial and error over the years I think HCG is the most important part of pct
 

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If you got HCG I'd blast like 750-1000 iu eod while the test is clearing then start your serm. After some trial and error over the years I think HCG is the most important part of pct
Yeah I’ve never actually used HCG, but this will be my most suppressive cycle I’ve done.

Sounds good to me.
 

CroLifter

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If you got HCG I'd blast like 750-1000 iu eod while the test is clearing then start your serm. After some trial and error over the years I think HCG is the most important part of pct
Because hpta switches on pretty fast once we artificially create low estrogen environment with serms.

testes take some time to get up and running and imho, running a pct without hcg, unless its like a 2-4 week cycle, is torture.
 

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Can anyone here direct me towards an HCG protocol thread? Or perhaps lay everything out for me.

I’m talking:
Dose
Frequency
Type of injection
Spot for injection
Needle size
Side effects
 
Jinsun

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Can anyone here direct me towards an HCG protocol thread? Or perhaps lay everything out for me.

I’m talking:
Dose
Frequency
Type of injection
Spot for injection
Needle size
Side effects
Hcg should be taken throughout the whole cycle. 250IU eod up until the end of first week of pct. Pin it subQ anywhere.
 
Smont

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Can anyone here direct me towards an HCG protocol thread? Or perhaps lay everything out for me.

I’m talking:
Dose
Frequency
Type of injection
Spot for injection
Needle size
Side effects
750-1000mcg eod for 5-7 total pins. Sub q with slinpins
 

saderboy80

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Hcg should be taken throughout the whole cycle. 250IU eod up until the end of first week of pct. Pin it subQ anywhere.
What is the reasoning behind taking HCG during the cycle? Is it advantageous to take it during the cycle to lighten the load on your pct
 
Smont

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Can anyone here direct me towards an HCG protocol thread? Or perhaps lay everything out for me.

I’m talking:
Dose
Frequency
Type of injection
Spot for injection
Needle size
Side effects
750-1000mcg eod for 5-7 total pins. Sub q with slinpins
What is the reasoning behind taking HCG during the cycle? Is it advantageous to take it during the cycle to lighten the load on your pct
I think its personal preference but you can make a strong case for why it should be used all cycle.

I've tried it both ways and I like it right before pct. But I gotta add that my nutz dont shrink on cycle, and my pct always went smooth, didn't matter if it was HCG on cycle, after cycle or no HCG and only a serm. so maybe I just recovered easy or didn't get shutdown as hard as other ppl. Even right now I've been either on a blast or trt back and forth the past year, no HCG and testicles are still same size. I always wondered if that plays a role in why recovery was easy. I never had low test when off, I always came back to high normal. I put myself on "trt" when I started cycling again last year
 

saderboy80

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750-1000mcg eod for 5-7 total pins. Sub q with slinpins

I think its personal preference but you can make a strong case for why it should be used all cycle.

I've tried it both ways and I like it right before pct. But I gotta add that my nutz dont shrink on cycle, and my pct always went smooth, didn't matter if it was HCG on cycle, after cycle or no HCG and only a serm. so maybe I just recovered easy or didn't get shutdown as hard as other ppl. Even right now I've been either on a blast or trt back and forth the past year, no HCG and testicles are still same size. I always wondered if that plays a role in why recovery was easy. I never had low test when off, I always came back to high normal. I put myself on "trt" when I started cycling again last year
So what exactly is the strong case to to utilize HCG during the cycle?
 
Smont

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So what exactly is the strong case to to utilize HCG during the cycle?
Keeping your testicles functional throughout your cycle. Preserve your spermcount. Make recovery easier. Then there's the opposite where they say taking HCG too long can do the total opposite but I dont know exactly how long is too long.
 

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Keeping your testicles functional throughout your cycle. Preserve your spermcount. Make recovery easier. Then there's the opposite where they say taking HCG too long can do the total opposite but I dont know exactly how long is too long.
That makes complete sense to me.

Will run low dose during cycle, blast it for a few days before dropping test e, blast 3 days post last test injection. Then I’ll take clomid and nolvadex.

^that along with Mtest and another test booster for my pct.


Go ahead and comment on things I over looked when planning PCT!!
 
Smont

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I could be wrong here, but I would think if you were taking 250iu 2x week or something along those lines during the cycle, then you wouldn't need to blast it at the end, I'd "think" you take your last shot of test, continue the same HCG dose for about 2 weeks longer then start your serm. I say think because I've done something like that before tho its been like 7 years so I dont recall exactly how did it. I just think if you kept testicles functional throughout then you probably wouldn't need that blast to wake them up for lack of a better way to put it. I'm sure someone else has a more definitive answer
 

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I could be wrong here, but I would think if you were taking 250iu 2x week or something along those lines during the cycle, then you wouldn't need to blast it at the end, I'd "think" you take your last shot of test, continue the same HCG dose for about 2 weeks longer then start your serm. I say think because I've done something like that before tho its been like 7 years so I dont recall exactly how did it. I just think if you kept testicles functional throughout then you probably wouldn't need that blast to wake them up for lack of a better way to put it. I'm sure someone else has a more definitive answer
Yeah I would rather be safe and blast HCG for a few days after the last test E pin, then be sorry and have an ineffective PCT. Just want to get at my normal test range as quickly as possible after the cycle. Not only that keeping most of your gains but also returning to a normal psychological level.
 
Smont

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Yeah I would rather be safe and blast HCG for a few days after the last test E pin, then be sorry and have an ineffective PCT. Just want to get at my normal test range as quickly as possible after the cycle. Not only that keeping most of your gains but also returning to a normal psychological level.
I guess I'm lucky in that regard too, never had any issues other then feeling mentally lethargic. Like no motivation but it was always short lived. 2-3 weeks and gtg.

I'm just not sure there's any benefit to th
Yeah I would rather be safe and blast HCG for a few days after the last test E pin, then be sorry and have an ineffective PCT. Just want to get at my normal test range as quickly as possible after the cycle. Not only that keeping most of your gains but also returning to a normal psychological level.
Just curious what you mean by normal psych levels. Agression or depression? I've never had any negative mental sides other then maybe slightly more anxiety. Normally I just feel like a better me on cycle. Dont feel obligated to talk about it if you dont want to
 

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I guess I'm lucky in that regard too, never had any issues other then feeling mentally lethargic. Like no motivation but it was always short lived. 2-3 weeks and gtg.

I'm just not sure there's any benefit to th

Just curious what you mean by normal psych levels. Agression or depression? I've never had any negative mental sides other then maybe slightly more anxiety. Normally I just feel like a better me on cycle. Dont feel obligated to talk about it if you dont want to
yeah I’m pretty prone on getting “roid rage” and sort of depressed when I come OFF a cycle, no libido
On cycle my libido Is high, less aggressive and feel like a god on cycle. Kind of just feel good overall mentally while on.
 
Jinsun

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Hcg at 250iu eod produces intratesticular testosterone levels in the same range as baseline. No need to dose more than that. And in this case I would not blast hcg before pct either. You are just asking for something to go wrong. Use it up until the end of first week of pct. Any longer then that you are geting in the way of your natural LH coming up.
 

saderboy80

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Hcg at 250iu eod produces intratesticular testosterone levels in the same range as baseline. No need to dose more than that. And in this case I would not blast hcg before pct either. You are just asking for something to go wrong. Use it up until the end of first week of pct. Any longer then that you are geting in the way of your natural LH coming up.
So it looks like you and @Smont both agree not to blast HCG. Just slow and steady throughout the cycle.

Given that I don’t know much about HCG, I will take your guys word for it!
 

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Getting antsy to start! But I only have the M1T, ancillaries, arimidex and pct (clomid/nolva).


Everything else is in the mail, on its way!
 
Jinsun

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Yes, hcg is there to prevent your balls from permanent damage due to shutdown. But it also helps with mood and libido during cycle. So even if you dont care about your balls health, it's still beneficial to use it.

What did you end up ordering?
 

saderboy80

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Yes, hcg is there to prevent your balls from permanent damage due to shutdown. But it also helps with mood and libido during cycle. So even if you dont care about your balls health, it's still beneficial to use it.

What did you end up ordering?
Definitely care about my balls coming back after pct. I’m not trying to get anyone pregnant haha. But would like to have kids down the road.

Already have M1T, epistane, mk677, ancillaries, arimidex, clomid, and nolva

Test E
Sustanon 250
Anavar
Cardarine


YK11
Lgd (both for future run, they were both on sale)


Some slinpins (note I am not doing insulin!)

Chaos and Pain predator (was BOGO)
 
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saderboy80

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Will start pre-loading ancillaries pretty soon here!

5% Nutrition Liver and Organ
TUDCA
Multivitamin
Vit B complex
Vit E
Vit D
Turmeric
Resveratrol
Glucosamine and Chondroitin
Cissus quadrangularis
Collagen and vit C
Red Rice Yeast
Fish Oil

Extras: chaos and pain predator, beriberine, chromium, inhibit P, inhibit E, Reduce XT, X gels


PCT: HCG, Nolva, Clomid and then MTest, Grit Test booster and just ordered another natural t booster, DAA, ZMA




I ordered some Carnitine after reviewing some literature about it upregulating androgen receptors and increasing receptor density.

Can anyone speak if it actually does this?
 
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BloodManor

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What brand red yeast rice are you using? I have high cholesterol naturally so I used to take it and it lowered it. Now I hear most companies are making cheap ryr
 

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