PHs vs STEROIDS - Shutdown, Sides, etc etc

[gabe666]

Stay away from prohormones, the gains are not as good as a steroid cycle, also test should be the base of every cycle if you want to be able to function as a man while you are on cycle, if you are worried about shut down and sperm count, stick with a short ester of test, like test prop, and do 10 week cycles, also if you use peptides in pct, you can keep much more of your gains. Everyone i know that has done all oral cycles, has lost at least 80% of there gains, and for that i would rather stick with sarms, you can do long cycles, and you will lose less after cycle because there is very little suppresion of hpta.

 

[Kickstart7]

Stay away from prohormones, the gains are not as good as a steroid cycle, also test should be the base of every cycle if you want to be able to function as a man while you are on cycle, if you are worried about shut down and sperm count, stick with a short ester of test, like test prop, and do 10 week cycles, also if you use peptides in pct, you can keep much more of your gains. Everyone i know that has done all oral cycles, has lost at least 80% of there gains, and for that i would rather stick with sarms, you can do long cycles, and you will lose less after cycle because there is very little suppresion of hpta.

with all do respect I have built on my gains from a DMZ cycle, I'm as big and strong as I've ever been and I've consistently weight 201 pounds every single day since the end of my pct. I started the cycle at 183. Everyone I know Is commenting asking me what I'm on and all that. Also I think any water weight I have would be gone by now since it's about 2-3 weeks after my pct and I've been using products to lean out a little more.

There's not enough studies on healthy young men to prove either or . It's always on the elderly or those with serious health issues. I'm not saying you're wrong in general, but I'm saying there are exceptions and it is very individualistic.

 

[yates84]

with all do respect I have built on my gains from a DMZ cycle, I'm as big and strong as I've ever been and I've consistently weight 201 pounds every single day since the end of my pct. I started the cycle at 183. Everyone I know Is commenting asking me what I'm on and all that. Also I think any water weight I have would be gone by now since it's about 2-3 weeks after my pct and I've been using products to lean out a little more.

There's not enough studies on healthy young men to prove either or . It's always on the elderly or those with serious health issues. I'm not saying you're wrong in general, but I'm saying there are exceptions and it is very individualistic.

This^^^
Ph gains are keepable if you cycle and pct properly

 

[gabe666]

How long ago did you finish your pct?
Also you may be able to keep your gains after a cycle like that, and thats great, but it is not the reality for most people. The other thing that you have not taken into account is that at 6ft and 201lb you have not yet passed your natural potential, the gains are much easier to keep. If you do another cycle and you get to lets say 220lb, you will see that it is nearly impossible to keep those gains with a short all oral cycle.

 

[CATdiesel76]

with all do respect I have built on my gains from a DMZ cycle, I'm as big and strong as I've ever been and I've consistently weight 201 pounds every single day since the end of my pct. I started the cycle at 183. Everyone I know Is commenting asking me what I'm on and all that. Also I think any water weight I have would be gone by now since it's about 2-3 weeks after my pct and I've been using products to lean out a little more.

There's not enough studies on healthy young men to prove either or . It's always on the elderly or those with serious health issues. I'm not saying you're wrong in general, but I'm saying there are exceptions and it is very individualistic.

It's not the two weeks after pct to be worried about. It's the coming months ahead. If you can keep it through the next few months then that will be impressive.

 

[gabe666]

^^^exactly

 

[Kickstart7]

It's not the two weeks after pct to be worried about. It's the coming months ahead. If you can keep it through the next few months then that will be impressive.

I will let you know, most likely will drop a few pounds do to practice, Conditioning, and lifting . But so far through rigorous conditioning I'ved maintained. Will update though!

 

[CATdiesel76]

I will let you know, most likely will drop a few pounds do to practice ? Conditioning Nd lifting . But so far through rigorous conditioning I'ved maintained. Will update though!

Best of luck Man. If it's your first cycle and you keep lifting hard you should keep a good bit. My only suggestion would be try not to lean out or over diet too much at this point. Keep calories up and hold on to that new mass on as much as you can.

 

[Kickstart7]

Best of luck Man. If it's your first cycle and you keep lifting hard you should keep a good bit. My only suggestion would be try not to lean out or over diet too much at this point. Keep calories up and hold on to that new mass on as much as you can.

will do thank you, I'm eating everything in sight. I think I'm seeing leaning effects due to the running bc it's hard to gauge how many cals I burn with that type of running, will deff update this every month. It'll be in interesting self experiment .

 

[jbryand101b]

Stay away from prohormones, the gains are not as good as a steroid cycle, also test should be the base of every cycle if you want to be able to function as a man while you are on cycle, if you are worried about shut down and sperm count, stick with a short ester of test, like test prop, and do 10 week cycles, also if you use peptides in pct, you can keep much more of your gains. Everyone i know that has done all oral cycles, has lost at least 80% of there gains, and for that i would rather stick with sarms, you can do long cycles, and you will lose less after cycle because there is very little suppresion of hpta.

Another bro scientist has entered the discussion!

 

[jbryand101b]

at 6ft and 201lb you have not yet passed your natural potential

Really? Now you are able to magically see and read his genetic code and decipher that about him?
Amazing.

 

[yates84]

Really? Now you are able to magically see and read his genetic code and decipher that about him?
Amazing.

I guess everyone magically starts out at 165, must be nice

 

[Kickstart7]

Really? Now you are able to magically see and read his genetic code and decipher that about him? Amazing.

deff couldn't get where I am with genetics. Could stay cut though probably lol.

 

[gabe666]

Most people at 6ft are able to get to 200lb naturally, and generally even on this board everyone recommends to get around that weight before first cycle, i am not saying it is the case for everyone, but for alot yes. Also as a general rule gains get harder to keep the bigger you are. Once you get passed a certain point you have to blast and cruise to keep the gains you make on cycle.

 

[jbryand101b]

Most people at 6ft are able to get to 200lb naturally, and generally even on this board everyone recommends to get around that weight before first cycle, i am not saying it is the case for everyone, but for alot yes. Also as a general rule gains get harder to keep the bigger you are. Once you get passed a certain point you have to blast and cruise to keep the gains you make on cycle.

#facepalm

You really sound like the idiots that frequented the bb.com forum back when they allowed steroid talk.

It's like taking a trip back in time. Only I don't have the patience or drive to school you like I did them back then.

However, you can use discount code jbry5 to save 5% off your order at tgbsupplements.com
:smoker:

 

[gabe666]

I am just giving advice based on my own personal experience, research, med school and from what the doc that controls my cycles has told me. i am also here to learn more if you say that i am wrong please atleast say why and where you disagree with me.

 

[jbryand101b]

I am just giving advice based on my own personal experience, research, med school and from what the doc that controls my cycles has told me. i am also here to learn more if you say that i am wrong please atleast say why and where you disagree with me.

I have a link to cycle info. Start reading on page 1.

It's your job as one making claims, to post the evidence backing up your claims. Not the person calling you out on them.

If I come out saying something like you need to run an ai to prevent winni from aromatizing and causing bloat, I should probably have some links to credible sources backing up my claim.
As an example.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Stay away from prohormones, the gains are not as good as a steroid cycle, also test should be the base of every cycle if you want to be able to function as a man while you are on cycle, if you are worried about shut down and sperm count, stick with a short ester of test, like test prop, and do 10 week cycles, also if you use peptides in pct, you can keep much more of your gains. Everyone i know that has done all oral cycles, has lost at least 80% of there gains, and for that i would rather stick with sarms, you can do long cycles, and you will lose less after cycle because there is very little suppresion of hpta.

1. AAS of any kind induce permanent biochemical changes in skeletal muscle tissue that progressively allow sustainability of gains.

2. Shutdown is related to total exposure (dose x duration) and to the compound itself.

3. Peptides don't help maintain gains. They, at best, provide a very, very mild boost in fat loss.

4. Nothing you learn in med school helps with this topic. So don't cite your education or doctor.

5. A lot of "losses of gains" during PCT is just glycogen and water weight. Losing actual muscle tissue, much like losing fat, is a slower process.

 

[JRSOLDJA]

Why are you still posting here? Your posts are literally the worst thing i've seen since Hurricane Katrina.

^ HAHAHAAHA! Not to mention that bull$hi#$# answer he provided...

 

[JRSOLDJA]

But from personal experirence I had the worst shutdown of my life on a test only cycle (post cycle) compared to any prohormones I was on. From what i'm told...most compounds in prohormones dont shut you down 100% (thats to the average healthy male) like steriods do. It's more of a mild shutdown.

 

[matt21irby21]

I get shot down by my fiancé whenever I piss her off, and then try to have a round of coitus. Idk how that relates to "shutdown" but they sound pretty scary

 

[vujade]

The other thing that you have not taken into account is that at 6ft and 201lb you have not yet passed your natural potential,

Tell that to my super lean 5'11" friend who weighs 145lbs, maybe 150 on a good day. He's never going to be a muscular 200lbs naturally.!

Really? Now you are able to magically see and read his genetic code and decipher that about him?
Amazing.

^^^this :clap2:

 

[DR.D]

I get shot down by my fiancé whenever I piss her off, and then try to have a round of coitus. Idk how that relates to "shutdown" but they sound pretty scary

It's completely unrelated. Except for the scary part.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

First of all, injectable does not mean non liver toxic. The compound dictates liver toxicity. Second, 6 week cycles IMO are a waste. Sure you can make progress etc. but the only reason people do them is because they didn't have access to injectables or didn't want to pin due to fear/legality. You can take an oral for 6 weeks and blow up but even with the best pct in the world they will be much harder to keep. A 20 week cycle of test will yield more gains, be more enjoyable, probably healthier, and you will keep your gains longer. I have done enough short and long cycles to know from experience. As far as shutdown, I noticed no difference in recovery between 6 week oh cycles and up to 14 week test cycles. Now a 1.5 year blast and cruise was a completely different story. Took a few months to feel right after that but it was worth it

You came off after 1.5 years? I bet it was more of a mind **** than anything just not pumped all the time, weights drop a bit? That's interesting though. What did u do for pct?

 

[SquatsAndOats]

The longer you are on the more desensitized your testicles become to the effects if Lh & fsh Hcg! You then scream. Great, problem solved. Though, for how long is anyone's guess. Can't use hcg forever. Now for the other unknown number of problems supraphysiological dosages of synthetic androgens will cause. The longer you are on the more at risk you are for a number of things, not just being infertile an impotent. To argue or think different is ignorant. /thread. Lastly, this: Invalid Link Removed

First time I'm seeing the testes being desensitized thing. You'd think the opposite would be true cause they aren't producing any LH or FSH. Do you have any studies for this? If so have you seen that it's reservable? Part of the reason I got into aas is because of how fascinated I am with physiology and anatomy. You can pm me if you feel like debating this or if it's not relevant too.

 

[SquatsAndOats]

1. AAS of any kind induce permanent biochemical changes in skeletal muscle tissue that progressively allow sustainability of gains. 2. Shutdown is related to total exposure (dose x duration) and to the compound itself. 3. Peptides don't help maintain gains. They, at best, provide a very, very mild boost in fat loss. 4. Nothing you learn in med school helps with this topic. So don't cite your education or doctor. 5. A lot of "losses of gains" during PCT is just glycogen and water weight. Losing actual muscle tissue, much like losing fat, is a slower process.

To quote number 5, (idk how to quote mobile, wouldn't pct or slightly after when you're recovering be a beneficial enviornment to lose muscle mass. I read a study that steroids not only increase muscle size, but they create new muscle cell satellite nuclei. Wouldn't those be easy to lose as they aren't mature cells? I'm not positive on this at all. I just have a basic understanding of anatomy and a little bit if physio but I'm trying to learn

 

[DR.D]

First time I'm seeing the testes being desensitized thing. ...

This is common knowledge. hCG inhibits LH/FSH pulsing while increasing T and E2 levels. This keeps your testicles on life support, but acts as additional negative feedback on the HPTA. That means upon cessation there will be a crash proportional to the time and intensity of the regimen, and pituitary rebound may likely be the primary obstacle with subsequent testicular recovery as the secondary.

 

[CATdiesel76]

You came off after 1.5 years? I bet it was more of a mind **** than anything just not pumped all the time, weights drop a bit? That's interesting though. What did u do for pct?

Yeah honestly after awhile you forget you are really on. The longer I was on, the less dramatic everything was if that makes sense. I put on 20lbs but after that I never gained anymore weight but the muscle became more defined and quality. Probably because some of the initial 20lbs was a lot of water and glycogen and by the end it was more solid muscle is what I figure

But even while cruising, it was always nice knowing I was on. J never had to worry about things lowering my test levels because they were always stable and high synthetically. I could cut calories for a bit if I put on too much fat and not worry about losing muscle. Things like that are the parts that messed with me most coming off.

Pct consisted of hcg, then clomid, nolva and exemastane at the 3 week mark, a variety of natural test boosters, and cialis

 

[Abe Lincoln]

You made the claim; it's your responsibility to support your claim. You CANNOT make a blanket statement regarding HPTA suppression as it completely disregards dose, duration, compound, etc. Shutdown, and using this term shows a lack of comprehension of the HPTA, is not a light switch. This is why is should be called suppression because it varies depending on what is used, how much, and how long.

How about one of those dimmer switches for lights?

 

[mr.cooper69]

To quote number 5, (idk how to quote mobile, wouldn't pct or slightly after when you're recovering be a beneficial enviornment to lose muscle mass. I read a study that steroids not only increase muscle size, but they create new muscle cell satellite nuclei. Wouldn't those be easy to lose as they aren't mature cells? I'm not positive on this at all. I just have a basic understanding of anatomy and a little bit if physio but I'm trying to learn

Well, they create new satellite cell nuclei because pre-existing satellite cells undergo myonuclear accretion. So no, you won't lose the leftover stem cell population