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PES GTFIH

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Less about effectiveness of products and more about the shadiness of it all if both sides have been diligently denying it all this time. Thought I hold nothing against the reps as I doubt companies tell reps all the nitty gritty details of the business.

I've met a couple of the PES reps in person, and talked about this topic before.


If they are truly affiliated, I am willing to bet there is not a single forum rep for them that knows it. If it's such a big secret that can't be let out, then I doubt they tell forum reps.
 
Maybe so.


But, even if they are affiliated (and I've heard athletix could be affiliated with USP as well) I don't really see why it's such a big deal. Does them being affiliated make the products that used to work before people knew about the affiliation less effective?

I think the issue here may be that because USPlabs is having a few issues with Oxyelite Pro (which may or may not be related to aegeine) and then the companies are sharing raws, then contamination issues may exist between the two companies.

Nothing wrong with the affiliation per se; a lot of companies are owned by one parent company, but I think the issue is with the contaminated product.
 
I think the issue here may be that because USPlabs is having a few issues with Oxyelite Pro (which may or may not be related to aegeine) and then the companies are sharing raws, then contamination issues may exist between the two companies.

Nothing wrong with the affiliation per se; a lot of companies are owned by one parent company, but I think the issue is with the contaminated product.

I doubt it man.

People have been bringing this topic up long before the hepatitis issues, and long before aegeline was even in supplements. Always with this kind of response.
 
Less about effectiveness of products and more about the shadiness of it all if both sides have been diligently denying it all this time. Thought I hold nothing against the reps as I doubt companies tell reps all the nitty gritty details of the business.

I've met a couple of the PES reps in person, and talked about this topic before.


If they are truly affiliated, I am willing to bet there is not a single forum rep for them that knows it. If it's such a big secret that can't be let out, then I doubt they tell forum reps.
I can guarantee you some reps knew
 
Well whatever the case, at least PES doesn't push their products like USPLabs does with all the gimmick crap.
 
We will have to wait and see what they say- If they want to deny then I will post how they knew;)

What I want to know is why you care so much.

You've been posting stuff like this for a long time, why does it matter so much to you if they're affiliated?
 
What I want to know is why you care so much.

You've been posting stuff like this for a long time, why does it matter so much to you if they're affiliated?
I doesn't matter to me except for the fact that I was bashed by PES and USP reps when I brought it up
 
I doesn't matter to me except for the fact that I was bashed by PES and USP reps when I brought it up

How can you really say it doesn't matter to you? You claim to have inside sources, you bring it up all the time, etc.


I can say it doesn't matter to me (even though I was bashed by you for saying I didn't particularly believe it) because I'm not sitting here calling USA Today looking for inside info about it.

What could you possibly gain from all of this effort?
 
How can you really say it doesn't matter to you? You claim to have inside sources, you bring it up all the time, etc.


I can say it doesn't matter to me (even though I was bashed by you for saying I didn't particularly believe it) because I'm not sitting here calling USA Today looking for inside info about it.

What could you possibly gain from all of this effort?
If its no concern to you then move along
 
I could say the same to you, since you literally just said it doesn't matter to you.
It doesn't or I would have been in these threads days ago when it was first brought up. You apparently just want to argue and I really don't have time for this petty shyt.
 
What's the big deal about USPLabs owning or being affiliated with PES?

I understand people are slightly rustled because they were mislead by their reps, but really, does it change anything? !

I'm amazed people would see PES's quality differently now. I know USPLabs is not held in high regard around here, but people were more than willing to put their trust in a company with no known owner(s) and no published QA reports. The only reason why people liked them is because they believed PES formulates "effective'' products and because they have some good bros pushing their products.

So again, lets assume USPLabs indeed owns PES, how does that change their de facto (and not perceived) quality? It doesn't. The products are still the same - good or ****ty.

The thing is, many people do view PES's quality differently now. Which is a shame but it is the truth on other boards.

Edit: PES have earnt peoples trust for a reason and they will continue to put good products out
 
What's the big deal about USPLabs owning or being affiliated with PES?

I understand people are slightly rustled because they were mislead by their reps, but really, does it change anything? !

I'm amazed people would see PES's quality differently now. I know USPLabs is not held in high regard around here, but people were more than willing to put their trust in a company with no known owner(s) and no published QA reports. The only reason why people liked them is because they believed PES formulates "effective'' products and because they have some good bros pushing their products.

So again, lets assume USPLabs indeed owns PES, how does that change their de facto (and not perceived) quality? It doesn't. The products are still the same - good or ****ty.
Maybe the fact that USP had quality issues with some of their raws and they both admitted they shared the same source
...and apparently shared employees
Invalid Link Removed
 
What's the big deal about USPLabs owning or being affiliated with PES?

I understand people are slightly rustled because they were mislead by their reps, but really, does it change anything? !

I'm amazed people would see PES's quality differently now. I know USPLabs is not held in high regard around here, but people were more than willing to put their trust in a company with no known owner(s) and no published QA reports. The only reason why people liked them is because they believed PES formulates "effective'' products and because they have some good bros pushing their products.

So again, lets assume USPLabs indeed owns PES, how does that change their de facto (and not perceived) quality? It doesn't. The products are still the same - good or ****ty.
I completely agree.

The thing is, many people do view PES's quality differently now. Which is a shame but it is the truth on other boards.

Edit: PES have earnt peoples trust for a reason and they will continue to put good products out
I was just reading that whole thing. It's ridiculous that people are seriously saying they aren't going to use PES/AS supps because of a possible affiliation with USP. They've been using them for a long time, and now, all of a sudden the products are no good.
 
I completely agree.


I was just reading that whole thing. It's ridiculous that people are seriously saying they aren't going to use PES/AS supps because of a possible affiliation with USP. They've been using them for a long time, and now, all of a sudden the products are no good.

I think jim owns both companies on the secret
 
Maybe the fact that USP had quality issues with some of their raws and they both admitted they shared the same source
...and apparently shared employees
Invalid Link Removed

Lol, seriously? That's what you throw out here?

I know a guy who was a cashier at Wal-Mart and eventually quit, he later started working for Kroger as a cashier. Guess Wal-Mart and Kroger are the same company because they had the same employee. /Sarcasm
 
Lol, seriously? That's what you throw out here?

I know a guy who was a cashier at Wal-Mart and eventually quit, he later started working for Kroger as a cashier. Guess Wal-Mart and Kroger are the same company because they had the same employee. /Sarcasm
Apparently you just ennjoy arguing with people and I seriously have better things to do today than go back and forth.
You are free to support what ever products or companies you choose .
I have nothing against pes at all. They have some good products that I have used several times over the years and I hold them in higher regards than usp.
Pes tries to put out products that work while usp only cares about taking money
 
Apparently you just ennjoy arguing with people and I seriously have better things to do today than go back and forth.
You are free to support what ever products or companies you choose .
I have nothing against pes at all. They have some good products that I have used several times over the years and I hold them in higher regards than usp.
Pes tries to put out products that work while usp only cares about taking money

For someone who "has better things to do" you certainly post in this thread a lot.

Like, finding and posting a LinkedIn page from someone who worked for both companies.
 
The pesticide issue was pointed out to demonstrate that USPLabs was being very careless in regards to scrutinizing their COAs. When the FDA inspected them a while back, the FDA noticed that in the COA for a raw ingredient which USPLabs provided to them, stated that the raws may contain traces of pesticides. Needless to say, someone dropped the ball at USPLabs in regards to crossing their T's and dotting their i's. It does not instill a great deal of confidence in USPLab's QC.

So basically the point of that was, if USPLabs let that COA slip through, goodness knows what else they have allowed slip through due to a lack of diligence in checking their raws. I'm not claiming that USPLabs is consistently negligent but issues like this are obvious not good things to let slip.

Honest on serous note is disconcerting noone that companies speaking to these pesticides problems. I take four the their cissus on the daily but big issue for me that I think is if are their pesticides other things problems are they not negligent on who will know what else it is uncomfortable to feel secure taking the cissus for quality I worry
 
For someone who "has better things to do" you certainly post in this thread a lot.

Like, finding and posting a LinkedIn page from someone who worked for both companies.

You have posted like 10 times JUST on this page.

Why do you care so much bro?
 
Honest on serous note is disconcerting noone that companies speaking to these pesticides problems. I take four the their cissus on the daily but big issue for me that I think is if are their pesticides other things problems are they not negligent on who will know what else it is uncomfortable to feel secure taking the cissus for quality I worry

I feel as though it were a few years ago, maybe more recently than that but I'm pretty sure it wasn't this year.

FDA sent them a warning letter or something.


Jack3d OG, OG Oxy Elite Pro, and Super Cissus were the ones in question IIRC.
 
Lol, I never claimed to have anything better to do, did I?

I'm laying in my bed, with my Netflix not working, surfing the forums. You mad bro?

Not at all.

If you like to spend you time arguing with people about why they care about something, when your actions show that you care a lot, it is your decision. Power to you if that gets you off.
 
Not at all.

If you like to spend you time arguing with people about why they care about something, when your actions show that you care a lot, it is your decision. Power to you if that gets you off.

I like to argue with people about anything and everything.

You have anything of value to add to the thread or is that all you came for?
 
I like to argue with people about anything and everything.

You have anything of value to add to the thread or is that all you came for?

Sounds fun. Please keep contributing meaningful material to this thread.
 
The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
-Joseph Joubert
 
I think the heart of this argument comes from PES sourcing some raws from USP. Not to mention you often see their products sold together in a stack. The marketing and approach is completely opposite of one another. While it could very well be possible that they are affiliated with one another, I won't stop using PES supplements. Not one supplement from USP has done anything for me. However PES products have all been amazing.

As a side note to one of the arguments, just because PES sources their Aegiline from USP does not make them affiliated. If we followed that type of logic then many of the products we all love could be traced back to similar sources. Example: Prolensis is a patent held by Matt Cahill. IIRC Matt Cahill is still owner of Driven Sports. Many won't use Driven Sports products because of Cahill's questionable past. SNS sells prolensis Bulbine caps, but no one is questioning them about an affiliation
 
Isn't it a little bit odd to own two companies, both of which make preworkout concentrates, both of which are then recommended by your salespeople as top preworkout products?

Or...both USPLabs(Modern BCAA), USPowders(Bulk unflavored aminos), and now PES (Amino IV) sell an amino product...they all claim to be awesome...so which one is actually the best?

--

That said, here's some devils advocate points in favor of brand diversification.

Obviously there are significant business perks to horizontal brand expansion and it's something you see in all industries. You can target one set of your products to the mass market (USPLabs), another to forum bros (PES), another to price-conscious people (USPowders).

Another big reason for brand diversification is differences in product run size. A USPLabs product is going to be ordered and stocked at WAY higher volumes at WAY more retailers than a PES product ever will. So to manufacture and distribute a USPLabs product requires a way bigger initial investment, and as a consequence limits the amount of risk you can take.

On the contrary, and especially if you're a player as big as USPLabs and can afford small-scale trial and error, if you have a smaller brand and want to trial-run an ingredient and see what feedback is, you can distribute a product through PES, which requires way less investment to do so. Additionally, and we don't know specifics here so this is a possibility, if a smaller brand has some financial backing from a larger company with more cash, they are able to afford risk other companies can't with ingredients that wouldn't be financially feasible otherwise.

In the end, (IMO) companies should just be open with their brand diversification and own their brands publicly. It avoids drama over company ownership like we're seeing here.

Also, people on the forums need to understand the market and why bigger brands do what they have to do, and why smaller brands are able to do what they do.

Just my opinion.
 
It's not just a case of same source. USP claimed they have/had a patent pending on Aegeline. (I can't find it on the USPTO, but it may have been submitted within the past 18 months)

PES would be stupid to use it without entering into licensing negotiations, buying it directly from USP or being a part of USP. Otherwise they would be risking a large patent infringement suit.

It would seem there may be a connection, but the companies are very different: USP is mostly hype and crappy products whereas PES has been mostly great. All I know is, I wants money back for the enhanced I just got, because I am not taking the risk.
 
I like to argue with people about anything and everything.

You have anything of value to add to the thread or is that all you came for?

Here's the problem people are having Jim - Many people on here view USPLabs in an incredibly negative light. If PES a very trusted company is owned by the same people it will have a negative affect on their reputation also. I for one have refused to support USP in any way like many others and as consumers we have the right to choose who we do and don't buy from/support. If PES were affiliated with USP then as a personal choice I would not want to give any money to PES because ultimately it would fund USP.
 
Here's the problem people are having Jim - Many people on here view USPLabs in an incredibly negative light. If PES a very trusted company is owned by the same people it will have a negative affect on their reputation also. I for one have refused to support USP in any way like many others and as consumers we have the right to choose who we do and don't buy from/support. If PES were affiliated with USP then as a personal choice I would not want to give any money to PES because ultimately it would fund USP.

I do not think the Spaniard is unreasonable nor trouble maker just truth seeker it his money so he shall spend it as he sees is fit as all consumers
 
Well, a thorough look around tells me the schitz is hitting the fan. Complete radio silence, sigs disappearing...man.
 
I do not think the Spaniard is unreasonable nor trouble maker just truth seeker it his money so he shall spend it as he sees is fit as all consumers

Touey language second english or first? Grammar confusing not familiar of language seen most normally familiar I am with.

Modeled reference after something not recognizing I am with?
 
Touey language second english or first? Grammar confusing not familiar of language seen most normally familiar I am with.

Modeled reference after something not recognizing I am with?

He's the Yoda of AM
 
It's not just a case of same source. USP claimed they have/had a patent pending on Aegeline. (I can't find it on the USPTO, but it may have been submitted within the past 18 months)

PES would be stupid to use it without entering into licensing negotiations, buying it directly from USP or being a part of USP. Otherwise they would be risking a large patent infringement suit.

It would seem there may be a connection, but the companies are very different: USP is mostly hype and crappy products whereas PES has been mostly great. All I know is, I wants money back for the enhanced I just got, because I am not taking the risk.


What risk?. Aegeline is being recalled because the FDA deemed it "non-natural". It doesn't comply with DSHEA. Same thing as with 1,3-dimethylamylamine.
 
Isn't it a little bit odd to own two companies, both of which make preworkout concentrates, both of which are then recommended by your salespeople as top preworkout products?

Or...both USPLabs(Modern BCAA), USPowders(Bulk unflavored aminos), and now PES (Amino IV) sell an amino product...they all claim to be awesome...so which one is actually the best?

--

That said, here's some devils advocate points in favor of brand diversification.

Obviously there are significant business perks to horizontal brand expansion and it's something you see in all industries. You can target one set of your products to the mass market (USPLabs), another to forum bros (PES), another to price-conscious people (USPowders).

Another big reason for brand diversification is differences in product run size. A USPLabs product is going to be ordered and stocked at WAY higher volumes at WAY more retailers than a PES product ever will. So to manufacture and distribute a USPLabs product requires a way bigger initial investment, and as a consequence limits the amount of risk you can take.

On the contrary, and especially if you're a player as big as USPLabs and can afford small-scale trial and error, if you have a smaller brand and want to trial-run an ingredient and see what feedback is, you can distribute a product through PES, which requires way less investment to do so. Additionally, and we don't know specifics here so this is a possibility, if a smaller brand has some financial backing from a larger company with more cash, they are able to afford risk other companies can't with ingredients that wouldn't be financially feasible otherwise.

In the end, (IMO) companies should just be open with their brand diversification and own their brands publicly. It avoids drama over company ownership like we're seeing here.

Also, people on the forums need to understand the market and why bigger brands do what they have to do, and why smaller brands are able to do what they do.

Just my opinion.

Agree

Also, this shared ownership (if true) could be very recente and that is why many PES reps while ago were denying
 
What sigs are disappearing?

Coops. Its off on here and BB. Might not be due to this though, lots of things can be going on at once and just compounding issues.
 
Coops. Its off on here and BB. Might not be due to this though, lots of things can be going on at once and just compounding issues.

Maybe people are just reading way too much into it. He could have just deleted for now and is planning on putting it back up in a more creative way or something.
 
Maybe people are just reading way too much into it. He could have just deleted for now and is planning on putting it back up in a more creative way or something.

Oh yeah, I hardly doubt he's left PES. I mean obviously I don't know for certain or anything but it seems highly unlikely. They've got big things in the pipeline
 
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