Peptopro for daily shakes too much?

[JN230]

yes ive taken an anatomy class my degree is in nutrition. im jsut curious as to why i wouldnt want to take a protein that absorbs at a GREATER degree than whey, say i take 50g whey, and after all is said and done i get 16g of active aminos in my blood stream....
OR OR OR

i take 25g peptopro to get more like 20-24g aminos in my blood stream?

ust curious...... as i have a back hand knowledge i just got i would love to hear you;re best argument here poison.........

 

[funkd0c]

That peptopro is the shiz yo! I just don't see any point in taking it at any other time than workout time.

 

[tnubs]

yes ive taken an anatomy class my degree is in nutrition. im jsut curious as to why i wouldnt want to take a protein that absorbs at a GREATER degree than whey, say i take 50g whey, and after all is said and done i get 16g of active aminos in my blood stream....
OR OR OR

i take 25g peptopro to get more like 20-24g aminos in my blood stream?

ust curious...... as i have a back hand knowledge i just got i would love to hear you;re best argument here poison.........

i took 2 nutrition classes in college the past year... i disagreed with a lot of what they were saying.

i think the best answer to ur question is on layne norton's website, just google it. there was a bunch of stuff on protein that might help point u in the right direction. im pretty sure i read something on there that answered this, if not u will definitely learn something either way

 

[poison]

yes ive taken an anatomy class my degree is in nutrition. im jsut curious as to why i wouldnt want to take a protein that absorbs at a GREATER degree than whey, say i take 50g whey, and after all is said and done i get 16g of active aminos in my blood stream....
OR OR OR

i take 25g peptopro to get more like 20-24g aminos in my blood stream?

ust curious...... as i have a back hand knowledge i just got i would love to hear you;re best argument here poison.........

1) peptopro's benefit is the fastest absorbtion of nearly anything, faster than bcaa's. It's high in bcaa's. This makes it ideal for when your body is under extreme stress, ie pre, inta, post event or workout.

It's drawbacks are cost; it lacks beneficial microfractions present in 'cruder' forms of dairy protein; and fast absorbtion is NOT BENEFICIAL for overall nutrition, growth, and muscle repair. Your body can only use so much at once; anything beyond this is burned for fuel, or stored as fat. So say you take 25gr peptopro and absorb 22gr, which are circulating simultaneously. These aminos have the same 'half life' as any other aminos from any other source. So once your body uses them or disposes of them, what's left? If you had eaten a steak, you'd have a constant supply of aminos going to muscles that need it, as they need it. With peptopro, they're there, then they're gone. Your body doesn't stop needing aminos for repair.


It's like the concentrate vs isolate debate. Isolate is inferior, and people in the whey industry agree with me: 50gr protein from concentrate has valuable nutrition that is distilled out of isolate. In other words, concentrate has everything isolate does, and then some, for less cost. Petopro is an even more extreme product than isolate, and the same rules apply.

So why use peptopro or isolate?

Peptopro - pre and intra it will provide the nutrition your body needs to perform at 100%, without drawing a lot of blood away from working muscles to the stomach, it's less likely to cause cramping, it provides aminos which can be used as glycogen, it increases anabolism, reduces cortisol, etc. Outside the event/workout, it provides absolutely no advantage over other sources, in fact it's inferior because it'll leave you without a source of protein in your system. The speed of absorbtion, which is it's most beneficial aspect in an event, is its downfall outside the event.

Isolate- isolate is good if you have stomach issues with regular concentrate. That's it, the only benefit. It has LESS nutrition than concentrate, and it costs more.

Do the math.

 

[funkd0c]

Crickets..... Where is the retort?

 

[tnubs]

Poison won!

 

[iForce Dave]

1) peptopro's benefit is the fastest absorbtion of nearly anything, faster than bcaa's. It's high in bcaa's. This makes it ideal for when your body is under extreme stress, ie pre, inta, post event or workout.

It's drawbacks are cost; it lacks beneficial microfractions present in 'cruder' forms of dairy protein; and fast absorbtion is NOT BENEFICIAL for overall nutrition, growth, and muscle repair. Your body can only use so much at once; anything beyond this is burned for fuel, or stored as fat. So say you take 25gr peptopro and absorb 22gr, which are circulating simultaneously. These aminos have the same 'half life' as any other aminos from any other source. So once your body uses them or disposes of them, what's left? If you had eaten a steak, you'd have a constant supply of aminos going to muscles that need it, as they need it. With peptopro, they're there, then they're gone. Your body doesn't stop needing aminos for repair.


It's like the concentrate vs isolate debate. Isolate is inferior, and people in the whey industry agree with me: 50gr protein from concentrate has valuable nutrition that is distilled out of isolate. In other words, concentrate has everything isolate does, and then some, for less cost. Petopro is an even more extreme product than isolate, and the same rules apply.

So why use peptopro or isolate?

Peptopro - pre and intra it will provide the nutrition your body needs to perform at 100%, without drawing a lot of blood away from working muscles to the stomach, it's less likely to cause cramping, it provides aminos which can be used as glycogen, it increases anabolism, reduces cortisol, etc. Outside the event/workout, it provides absolutely no advantage over other sources, in fact it's inferior because it'll leave you without a source of protein in your system. The speed of absorbtion, which is it's most beneficial aspect in an event, is its downfall outside the event.

Isolate- isolate is good if you have stomach issues with regular concentrate. That's it, the only benefit. It has LESS nutrition than concentrate, and it costs more.

Do the math.

Theres nothing wrong with having a high protein intake IMO, its the fastest way to muscle gains

"A study examining bodybuilders with protein intakes of 2.8g/kg vs. well trained athletes with moderate protein intakes revealed no significant differences in kidney function between the groups.1 Additionally, a review of the scientific literature on protein intake and renal function concluded that "there is no reason to restrict protein in healthy individuals." "


Isolate is typically void of fats and lactose, that alone is a good reason to use it. The reason being more of the powder you are ingesting is protein. that means more BCAA's, more EAAs and more NEAA's.

Simple math - 90% protein per scoop or 60-70% protein per scoop... why pay for milk sugar and fat?

That means that to maximize MPS via amino acid blood levels, it would require less from WPI than WPC

Also, the manufacturing process of WPI is important, low temperature cross flow microfiltration will keep proteins intact and not degrade them in any way. ION-exchange on the other hand I would not use.

I would never use a concentrate, i prefer isolate. More protein, no lactose, no fats, pretty much the same price.

And I also dont think that food sources are neccessarily any better. In the end its the amount of amino acids that are available for the body to use. Unless you are taking your shake completely solo (which I wouldnt advise) the digestion rate would be staggered with the other foods you are eating. I always reccommend having WPI as part of a meal, whether it be liquid or whole foods.

Lastly, WPIs superior absorption and low fat is a much better option for PWO especially when combined with high GI carbs, more insulin response from the combination and no fats to slow down the digestion.

 

[tnubs]

Theres nothing wrong with having a high protein intake IMO, its the fastest way to muscle gains

"A study examining bodybuilders with protein intakes of 2.8g/kg vs. well trained athletes with moderate protein intakes revealed no significant differences in kidney function between the groups.1 Additionally, a review of the scientific literature on protein intake and renal function concluded that "there is no reason to restrict protein in healthy individuals." "


Isolate is typically void of fats and lactose, that alone is a good reason to use it. The reason being more of the powder you are ingesting is protein. that means more BCAA's, more EAAs and more NEAA's.

Simple math - 90% protein per scoop or 60-70% protein per scoop... why pay for milk sugar and fat?

That means that to maximize MPS via amino acid blood levels, it would require less from WPI than WPC

Also, the manufacturing process of WPI is important, low temperature cross flow microfiltration will keep proteins intact and not degrade them in any way. ION-exchange on the other hand I would not use.

I would never use a concentrate, i prefer isolate. More protein, no lactose, no fats, pretty much the same price.

And I also dont think that food sources are neccessarily any better. In the end its the amount of amino acids that are available for the body to use. Unless you are taking your shake completely solo (which I wouldnt advise) the digestion rate would be staggered with the other foods you are eating. I always reccommend having WPI as part of a meal, whether it be liquid or whole foods.

Lastly, WPIs superior absorption and low fat is a much better option for PWO especially when combined with high GI carbs, more insulin response from the combination and no fats to slow down the digestion.

where is isolate the same price as concentrate? you said your paying for 70% protein per scoop vs 90% but the price of concentrate is significantly lower so your not "paying" for that. what you are paying for is the purity of isolate, which boosts the price up. the amount of lactose is concentrate is very low, so is fat(under a gram per scoop). performance wise nobody could convince me that isolate is any better. a gram of fat is 9 cals, if you really need to take that out of your diet, i feel sad for you. even ppl who are lactose intolerant, a lot of them arnt bothered by concentrate (me included)

 

[iForce Dave]

where is isolate the same price as concentrate? you said your paying for 70% protein per scoop vs 90% but the price of concentrate is significantly lower so your not "paying" for that. what you are paying for is the purity of isolate, which boosts the price up. the amount of lactose is concentrate is very low, so is fat(under a gram per scoop). performance wise nobody could convince me that isolate is any better. a gram of fat is 9 cals, if you really need to take that out of your diet, i feel sad for you. even ppl who are lactose intolerant, a lot of them arnt bothered by concentrate (me included)

an isolate will be 90-95% protein per scoop (if it is indeed a high quality isolate)

a concentrate will be roughly 70% per scoop.

so assuming 20-25% more protein total, the isolate is obviously a better choice.

And no the lactose content isnt very low.. most powders are 4-6 grams per scoop. Assuming you do 2-3 scoops thats anywhere from 8-18g of lactose, just as much as drinking milk... and you wonder why it tastes good... FAT AND SUGAR TASTES GOOD

As for finding cheap isolates, most 5 pounders are 40 bucks ish. Assuming you get a concentrate for 30, in my opinion you are better off spending a little bit more for 20-25% more protein, and better digestion, less fat and less lactose.

to each his own, im just saying to dismiss WPI is dumb. Its one of the best supplements ever made. If spending an extra $5-$10 bucks on the most important supplement anyone can take (protein) isnt important, than keep buying cheap low quality protein.

 

[funkd0c]

WPI CFM
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WPC
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now look at the price difference and the % of the WPC. Looks like concentrate wins to me.

But granted, I do like a blend of both for mixabilty purposes.

 

[poison]

Lactose is a carb, and will count under the carb rating on your label. The concentrate linked above has 2gr carbs per 30gr scoop, and 24gr protein. That's hardly 4-6gr per scoop.

You simply can't call a protein inferior because it's a concentrate, or superior because it's an isolate. That's simply wrong. 25gr of protein from concentrate has everything 25gr from isolate has, PLUS valuable microfractions and peptides that are highly beneficial for health, at a significantly lower cost per gram.

But since we can agree that protein is very important, and you believe that spending more for a more 'pure' or high-quality source is better, it begs the question: why aren't you using the purest, most high quality source of protein available at the moment, Peptopro, for daily use?

 

[JN230]

i took 2 nutrition classes in college the past year... i disagreed with a lot of what they were saying.

i think the best answer to ur question is on layne norton's website, just google it. there was a bunch of stuff on protein that might help point u in the right direction. im pretty sure i read something on there that answered this, if not u will definitely learn something either way

thats awesome but i even facebooked layne about peptopro, and hes never heard of it, after seeing the site, he said that it was basically equivalent to whey, but no better or worse, ust more expensive

Poison won!

no even, its called 40HR A WEEK JOB, MOVING, BREAK P WITH GF, AND TRAINING MY DAD AT 530AM EACH DAY!

Lactose is a carb, and will count under the carb rating on your label. The concentrate linked above has 2gr carbs per 30gr scoop, and 24gr protein. That's hardly 4-6gr per scoop.

You simply can't call a protein inferior because it's a concentrate, or superior because it's an isolate. That's simply wrong. 25gr of protein from concentrate has everything 25gr from isolate has, PLUS valuable microfractions and peptides that are highly beneficial for health, at a significantly lower cost per gram.

But since we can agree that protein is very important, and you believe that spending more for a more 'pure' or high-quality source is better, it begs the question: why aren't you using the purest, most high quality source of protein available at the moment, Peptopro, for daily use?

i believe that paying for the superior absoprtion, and ease of digestion, if you tihnk back to chemistry and the difference in MIXTURES AND SOLUTIONS, and seeing that peptopro is a solution when it mixes you will already see my benefit!

 

[funkd0c]

Why did you even ask the question if you had already made your mind up on which protein you are going to use???!

 

[JN230]

i didnt, did u realize that its been over a week?
i have researched a lot and talked to a lot of peple about it, including trueportein,com staff...

 

[Frequency]

i didnt, did u realize that its been over a week?
i have researched a lot and talked to a lot of peple about it, including trueportein,com staff...

I am pretty much mr anti peptopro and only because i have yet to see a study showing that it is 2-3x more effective than standard whey to justify that 30 dollar a lb price. Have you read any studies supporting di/tri peptides besides faster absorption. Hell ill rather deal with masking the slight bitter taste, having to use a blender ( if thats what it takes to get the clumps out i dunno if they are that bad just going with the worst possible case), get more leucine per serving, and save like 12 bucks a lb by going with hydrolized whey ultra grade.

 

[funkd0c]

i didnt, did u realize that its been over a week?
i have researched a lot and talked to a lot of peple about it, including trueportein,com staff...

So then what's your consensus so far?

 

[JN230]

so far its still peptopro, for me, less overall protein intake with same effects should be interresting, i havent seen any strong anti-peptopro evidence thus far, just poison ushing whey....

 

[Frequency]

so far its still peptopro, for me, less overall protein intake with same effects should be interresting, i havent seen any strong anti-peptopro evidence thus far, just poison ushing whey....

.....shouldnt you be looking for strong pro-peptopro evidence. Nothing ive seen shows that it is more effective than standard whey beside typical marketing which has your reeled in nicely.

 

[JN230]

except that i have connections to pure pepto...................so if its equal or better, which is true in my educated opinion thus far, i will go with the pepto, im not looking to stress my body anymore than i already am

 

[tnubs]

except that i have connections to pure pepto...................so if its equal or better, which is true in my educated opinion thus far, i will go with the pepto, im not looking to stress my body anymore than i already am

just try it and log it

 

[Frequency]

benefit i see is that my kidneys will love me because of it

High protein diets don’t damage fully functional kidneys. They damage already damaged kidneys. Proteins back up in the kidneys when the kidney is damaged by things like, diabetes(most common) and high blood pressure. Protein readily reabsorbs into the blood stream but when the kidneys are damage it hinders absorption causing a backup called proteinuria. That’s when your kidneys start taking damage from the proteins and I think at that point your pee is noticeably different like frothy.

i had been told that although the pepto is taken up quick the aminos are actually disperesed slowly over hours.....

This maybe true but that would apply to all proteins you intake and really would negate the advantage of peptopro as they advertise it.

Not cooked, "charred meat", there is a difference. Also note that is RED meat, yes dairy unless it raw like not pasturized, its not the best for the body. So arguing with me aint going to change the facts that have been documented, sorry to be the burden of the news.

Actually there was a study that showed high temps cause a chemical change in, I believe, creatine that creates a carcinogen. I don’t have the study on hand but if I have time to search for it ill post it for ****s and giggles. Really everything is eventually shown to contribute to cancer to some degree but if it were that big a deal we would not have a continually growing number of centurions in the world

but how is having a mass of aminos trickling off your body from a ball of goo, good?

and if the pepto is absorbed fast does that inheritly mean that it is brokendown fast? or is it still casin after all? just not in the stomach as long? i really need input from someone with professional experience and opinion on Peptopro, and possibly a serum blood amino level test for hours after ingestion

Where are you getting slow digestion is harsh on the body from because I would like to expand my knowledge and this is news to me. Its like saying fitness stress is harsh on the body. Peptopro is predigested casein protein so why do you think the di/tri peptides are any different than the di/tri peptides your body breaks whole proteins down into? Casein is slow digesting because it gels in your stomach. The only difference between di/tri peptides from hydrolyzed whey and hydrolyzed casein is their concentrations. Once in the blood they both act the same.

just because peptopro gets into the bloodstream fast doesnt mean that it isnt there for a long time.... think pharmaceutical drugs man..... they are in your system for a long ass time and they can be oral....

There is no comparison between man made chemicals and natural peptides. Those drugs are made to avoid being pulled out of the blood stream. Think of it like steroids. Oral steroids work best when they are methylated because the methylation protects the steroid from your liver thus allowing it to stay in the blood longer. These peptides arnt methylated or any different from any other di/tri peptide

whos to say that even tho peptopro is taken out of the digestive tract quickly that it isnt in your blood stream for a few hrs.......

Its possible but if that’s the case then whey protein would eventually match the peptide/ amino concentrations of Peptopro leaving the only benfit for Peptopro being post workout

i believe that paying for the superior absoprtion, and ease of digestion, if you tihnk back to chemistry and the difference in MIXTURES AND SOLUTIONS, and seeing that peptopro is a solution when it mixes you will already see my benefit!

Huh? 80% of peptopro is absorbed almost immediately so this solution/mixture jargon is just nonsense to sell the products. I don’t care if the **** sank like a turd on the bottom of your glass di/tri-peptides absorb rapidly and that’s all you need to know. As far as absorption is concerned its fast not better. Whey protein is as bioavailable as protein comes so show me the “better”. They also say that you should take MAP 30-60 minutes before workout? Why? So all the di/tri peptide are broken down into aminos before your workout? Free form aminos only take up to 20 minutes to be absorbed and don’t require being broken down. Im really missing their point and to me it negates taking hydrolyzed protein all together. Also peptopro has been out for quite a while now and still no studies showing comparisons between di/tri peptide intake versus whole protein intake?


Most of your opinions are not very well educated but I helped you out buddy! Don’t worry we all get blinded by hype at some point.:fing02:

 

[Frequency]

Hmm stumble upon this article in my bookmarks.
Invalid Link Removed

 

[crazyfool405]

Not cooked, "charred meat", there is a difference. Also note that is RED meat, yes dairy unless it raw like not pasturized, its not the best for the body. So arguing with me aint going to change the facts that have been documented, sorry to be the burden of the news.

i drank 2 liters of 100% pure cows milk, non pasturized in jamaca for 7 days straight, best thing ever! no stomach issues like i get here.

 

[Frequency]

i drank 2 liters of 100% pure cows milk, non pasturized in jamaca for 7 days straight, best thing ever! no stomach issues like i get here.

Man milk has never done me wrong but ive never had it straight from the cow.

 

[OnTheRoadTo]

I bought some casein hydrolysate after reading this study

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I didn't gain anything extraordinary. I suspect that the faster absorption probably activates some pathways a little better than whey, but who knows. I started gaining a lot more strength and size when I switched to 32oz chocolate milk +15g whey + 7g creatine after workouts. Seriously.


I'll bet quite alot that it won't matter either way which protein you choose. We're talking about like 100 calories of daily intake. I'm convinced that meal frequency is more or less a myth.