PA vs ARA

[koi1214]

I Did that..still lost lol

Google Fearn soy lecithin granules

 

[Marvolousj]

Thanks bro i find some..and you take this pre or post

 

[Grayson]

Thanks bro i find some..and you take this pre or post

Both.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

What type of dosage did you use?

 

[Grayson]

What type of dosage did you use?

2.3-2.5g pre+post w/3g creatine in each serving.

 

[Kickstart7]

Currently using ARA.. Should I dose away from ARA. Pumps are excruciating and with PA added pre-workout also idk if I'll be able to bend my arms lol

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Thats sounds solid to me. Are you responding well to it?

 

[koi1214]

Currently using ARA.. Should I dose away from ARA. Pumps are excruciating and with PA added pre-workout also idk if I'll be able to bend my arms lol

How many caps of ArA do you use?

 

[Kickstart7]

How many caps of ArA do you use?

1.5 grams on upper body day
1 gram on lower body because my legs burned horribly but in a good way. Just a but too sore.

I don't take GMS or anything with then. Just those alone pre workout.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Currently using ARA.. Should I dose away from ARA. Pumps are excruciating and with PA added pre-workout also idk if I'll be able to bend my arms lol

Are you getting PA via soyl granules? PA, especially via soyl granules, should be synergistic with ArA and assist with its delivery/absorption. Dose both prewo.

 

[Kickstart7]

Are you getting PA via soyl granules? PA, especially via soyl granules, should be synergistic with ArA and assist with its delivery/absorption. Dose both prewo.

yes, I'm gonna buy the link that was posted last page. 7.98 I believe for 16 oz. sounds great!

 

[kissdadookie]

For folks looking at either for PCT use (granted, that's not the main topic of this thread and at best a sub topic for this thread), IMHO, PA is way more effective in PCT than ArA (from what I get from them).

For those wishing to use something to boost themselves in PCT, I would recommend PA whilst leaving ArA for its own cycle or even possibly on-cycle (supposed ArA can help increase AR).

 

[RecompMan]

All PA did was make me fat and bloated (if you like a bloated pump...go for it). In no way at all does it compare to ARA lol...

no but increases pla2 which is good for ara

And emulsion and protein synthesis

Most everyone uses too much

750mg pa is enough

 

[SwolenONE]

I've never heard of PA making anybody fat... but your feedback does echoe the masses in terms of PA not being quite as powerful of a muscle builder as ArA.

 

[Contaygious]

Pa bloates me but my arms are huge. Wonder if i should stay on it during cycle? I'm used to putting it into my conq3r, but I'm doing a cutting cycle...

 

[Kickstart7]

Just bro science but it is soy which can cause estrogen. Maybe those that bloat used high dosages and caused some estrogen sides and held some water? Idk lol bro science

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Just bro science but it is soy which can cause estrogen. Maybe those that bloat used high dosages and caused some estrogen sides and held some water? Idk lol bro science

According to the USDA, soy lecithin contains an average of 15.7mg isoflavones per 100g.
http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/80400525/Data/isoflav/Isoflav_R2.pdf

and this if from examine.com

Soy does not appear to significantly affect testosterone levels in moderation (1-2 servings of soy food daily, less than 25g of soy protein from non-concentrate sources), and seems to be able to adversely affect testosterone levels when superloaded (enough so that the equol issue is moot; around 100mg isoflavones daily). Between moderation and excess, there is a grey area that is dependent on whether or not one is able to produce equol from daidzein. These numbers do not apply to soy protein concentrate, which has negligible isoflavone content from ethanol extraction.

A lot of people, myself included, seem to find 3 tbsp of lecithin granules (1.8 g PA) to be a good amount. That's 22.5 grams of soy lecithin, which should only contain around 3.5mg isoflavone, much, much less than the 100mg number examine mentioned.

 

[Contaygious]

I do 3 tbs pwo. I been on pa so long now though maybe i should do a break on cycle just to see how it goes. Unless i want to challenge myself to see if i can get ripped again while still on the pa.

 

[Kickstart7]

According to the USDA, soy lecithin contains an average of 15.7mg isoflavones per 100g. http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Place/80400525/Data/isoflav/Isoflav_R2.pdf and this if from examine.com A lot of people, myself included, seem to find 3 tbsp of lecithin granules (1.8 g PA) to be a good amount. That's 22.5 grams of soy lecithin, which should only contain around 3.5mg isoflavone, much, much less than the 100mg number examine mentioned.

good info right there!!

 

[Kickstart7]

So before I order, if the granule say they have 1200mg per serving they're good to go ?!

 

[NewAgeMayan]

sounds good, what product? Fearn?

 

[Kickstart7]

http://www.vitacost.com/fearn-lecithin-granules

Rocket linked them but they look good

 

[NewAgeMayan]

All good, got 4 of those myself

 

[muscleupcrohn]

So before I order, if the granule say they have 1200mg per serving they're good to go ?!

Yeah. I think some people are even going with lecithin granules that don't specify the PA content. It seems like most people, myself included, are taking Fearn, but Optima also specifes the PA content, and it's even a higher % of PA than Fearn, and it's non-GMO, but it's a bit more expensive, but I forget how much.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Yeah depending on where you shop Optima can be up to twice as expensive

 

[Danes]

I use optima. 12.38% PA

 

[uwotmate]

this issue of bloating.. its from people taking the SL right? if i take King then i will have no problems with this issue?

 

[Contaygious]

Cuz king has hardly any pa in it. I still have like 8 bottles left sitting there hah

 

[ELROCK]

this issue of bloating.. its from people taking the SL right? if i take King then i will have no problems with this issue?

Yes, but the pa dose in King is to low. My sweet spot seems to be 1200-1800 mg of pa. Others on here like a bigger dose like 2-4 grams. So, you may have to double or even triple dose the King. You will save yourself a good amount of money going with SL over King.

 

[kissdadookie]

Yes, but the pa dose in King is to low. My sweet spot seems to be 1200-1800 mg of pa. Others on here like a bigger dose like 2-4 grams. So, you may have to double or even triple dose the King. You will save yourself a good amount of money going with SL over King.

Tbh, 750 mg of PA from Mediator seems to work very very very well. Epiq which I'm running now is comparable to the Micro-PA I had been running for ~8 months straight.

I didn't notice a change using lecithin, but then again, I also didn't feel a change using OG King, but when I went back to Micro-PA from after King, I felt muscle fullness increase, take from that what you will. Drop offs are not very noticeable when you stop use of PA, if at all.

My standard for comparison of PA products to see if they are good or not is still IMHO, Micro-PA.

 

[Danes]

Tbh, 750 mg of PA from Mediator seems to work very very very well. Epiq which I'm running now is comparable to the Micro-PA I had been running for ~8 months straight.

I didn't notice a change using lecithin, but then again, I also didn't feel a change using OG King, but when I went back to Micro-PA from after King, I felt muscle fullness increase, take from that what you will. Drop offs are not very noticeable when you stop use of PA, if at all.

My standard for comparison of PA products to see if they are good or not is still IMHO, Micro-PA.

Have been running Micro-PA since April.
Tried KING v1 and V2 And i did not liked at aaaall. Went back to Micro-PA and BAMmm!

Gonna try EPIQ and i believe its good product since its mediator in it.
King v1 had it too but v1 and v2 gave me diarrhea. Could be niagen

Soy lecithin was good. Gave me high PA dosages easy but i need to admit, the strong aftertaste is beginning to bother me

Still have 12 boxes of Micro PA so i will take 6 caps pre and 6 after workout

 

[kissdadookie]

Have been running Micro-PA since April.
Tried KING v1 and V2 And i did not liked at aaaall. Went back to Micro-PA and BAMmm!

Gonna try EPIQ and i believe its good product since its mediator in it.
King v1 had it too but v1 and v2 gave me diarrhea. Could be niagen

Soy lecithin was good. Gave me high PA dosages easy but i need to admit, the strong aftertaste is beginning to bother me

Still have 12 boxes of Micro PA so i will take 6 caps pre and 6 after workout

Yeah, that taste that lingers, very annoying. Sometimes it sits heavy in my gut as well, which is not fun either when I'm in the gym.

Just to note for full disclosure: I haven't personally gone out to buy more PA products, the Micro-PA I have left is what I bought like 8 months ago (I obviously bought A LOT of it). The Epiq I received to try. I also received Fuel:One to try. NOW lecithin I bought and used, along with OG King. So my comments/opinions are strictly in terms of effectiveness sans price value regardless if these are products I've purchased or received to test out.

 

[Danes]

Yeah, that taste that lingers, very annoying. Sometimes it sits heavy in my gut as well, which is not fun either when I'm in the gym.

Just to note for full disclosure: I haven't personally gone out to buy more PA products, the Micro-PA I have left is what I bought like 8 months ago (I obviously bought A LOT of it). The Epiq I received to try. I also received Fuel:One to try. NOW lecithin I bought and used, along with OG King. So my comments/opinions are strictly in terms of effectiveness sans price value regardless if these are products I've purchased or received to test out.

From now i really prefer Micro PA.
Rather lower PA doses than horrible aftertaste lol

 

[muscleupcrohn]

How are you guys taking the lecithin granules again? I've found that if I let them dissolve in a glass of water for a while, probably 10-15 minutes, the granules dissolve almost completely, and it's really easy to drink. It doesn't sit heavy in my stomach at all, and the aftertaste isn't an issue, but I do usually swish around a mouthful of hot water from my sink after drinking the lecithin, and then I chase it with a flavored pre-workout, but I have been known to not have a problem with the taste of some absolutely horrible bulk powders. I think it's sort of ironic that I had a lot of stomach problems when I was little, but now I have no problems with the lecithin granules, 10% forskolin, or bacopa, which all seem to give some people problems. So, for me anyway, there really isn't any reason to look elsewhere for a source of PA, since I find the lecithin to be cheap and effective, although I do like to have some King on hand, for times when I'm not home to mix the lecithin, or if I don't have time to let it dissolve in water for whatever reason.

 

[Wafflestomped]

I've been taking SL granules for the past 2 weeks to get 1.2g PA about 45min preworkout. Are there any benefits/drawbacks to taking -(-epi) (EP1C) at the same time? Dose them 30min apart? Not sure if i'm missing anything...

I'll also be using Anabeta elite with my pre and post workout meal

 

[NewAgeMayan]

theoretically the soy will assist with absorption, but to what extent it can do this with epi is a bioavailability-can-of-worms I do not wish to open...I doubt the soy will 'hinder' the epi, put it that way

 

[Danes]

How are you guys taking the lecithin granules again? I've found that if I let them dissolve in a glass of water for a while, probably 10-15 minutes, the granules dissolve almost completely, and it's really easy to drink. It doesn't sit heavy in my stomach at all, and the aftertaste isn't an issue, but I do usually swish around a mouthful of hot water from my sink after drinking the lecithin, and then I chase it with a flavored pre-workout, but I have been known to not have a problem with the taste of some absolutely horrible bulk powders. I think it's sort of ironic that I had a lot of stomach problems when I was little, but now I have no problems with the lecithin granules, 10% forskolin, or bacopa, which all seem to give some people problems. So, for me anyway, there really isn't any reason to look elsewhere for a source of PA, since I find the lecithin to be cheap and effective, although I do like to have some King on hand, for times when I'm not home to mix the lecithin, or if I don't have time to let it dissolve in water for whatever reason.

I am throwing 6 teaspoons in my mouth,chew little bit and swallow while drinking water

 

[kissdadookie]

theoretically the soy will assist with absorption, but to what extent it can do this with epi is a bioavailability-can-of-worms I do not wish to open...I doubt the soy will 'hinder' the epi, put it that way

It will help with digestion of other fats (the lecithin). However, IIRC, if one wishes to increase bioavailibility of other compounds via liposomal delivery, the compound needs to be complexed with the phospholipids, not just simply mixed together with them.

 

[Wafflestomped]

Thanks for the insight. kissdadookie, iirc you were taking PA with Follidrone, did you ever take the PA in the form of soy lecithin? and if so how did you dose it with Folli?

 

[kissdadookie]

Thanks for the insight. kissdadookie, iirc you were taking PA with Follidrone, did you ever take the PA in the form of soy lecithin? and if so how did you dose it with Folli?

Never used follidrone in my life. I have used Now Soy Lecithin. Personally, I like the capped concentrated products, just easier to deal with first thing in the morning before the gym. Cost is of course an issue with those products.

 

[Wafflestomped]

Never used follidrone in my life.

oops lol, I am mistaken then

 

[NewAgeMayan]

It will help with digestion of other fats (the lecithin). However, IIRC, if one wishes to increase bioavailibility of other compounds via liposomal delivery, the compound needs to be complexed with the phospholipids, not just simply mixed together with them.

heh, yeah I suspected I was being overly optimistic here

 

[young4life]

Well after reading about how good this PA stuff is I decided to buy a couple from this place - http://m.vitacost.com/products/fearn-lecithin-granules

I know this question has probably been asked before but here it is. Do you have to cycle this or can it be taken continuously like creatine?

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Well after reading about how good this PA stuff is I decided to buy a couple from this place - http://m.vitacost.com/products/fearn-lecithin-granules

I know this question has probably been asked before but here it is. Do you have to cycle this or can it be taken continuously like creatine?

consensus seems to be that it is not necessary to cycle this stuff, so whether you do or not is up to you and your own philosophy regarding supp cycling. As far as we know, it dosnt fall obviously into the "should be cycled" category like other supps/ingredients do.

 

[kissdadookie]

consensus seems to be that it is not necessary to cycle this stuff, so whether you do or not is up to you and your own philosophy regarding supp cycling. As far as we know, it dosnt fall obviously into the "should be cycled" category like other supps/ingredients do.

I would say, if one is running anabolics, drop it on cycle and bring it back in for PCT. Other than that, stuff can be taken for an indefinite length of time. I've used PA for ~8 months straight.

 

[Danes]

Well after reading about how good this PA stuff is I decided to buy a couple from this place - http://m.vitacost.com/products/fearn-lecithin-granules

I know this question has probably been asked before but here it is. Do you have to cycle this or can it be taken continuously like creatine?

There is no need to be cycled but it is not bad idea either

 

[NewAgeMayan]

I would say, if one is running anabolics, drop it on cycle and bring it back in for PCT.

I saw you mention this earlier, whats your reasoning for it?

 

[kissdadookie]

I saw you mention this earlier, whats your reasoning for it?

The anabolics will overshadow any natty product you toss in so it's better to save it for PCT as the benefits, especially muscle fullness, occurs relatively quickly IMO for PA thus it will aid in trying to retain the on cycle "feel"/gains.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I still haven't tried PA lol.

Is there any research on soy lecithin and athletes/humans? I've never looked but perhaps there are some older papers that had not considered the PA relationship.

 

[young4life]

consensus seems to be that it is not necessary to cycle this stuff, so whether you do or not is up to you and your own philosophy regarding supp cycling. As far as we know, it dosnt fall obviously into the "should be cycled" category like other supps/ingredients do.

I would say, if one is running anabolics, drop it on cycle and bring it back in for PCT. Other than that, stuff can be taken for an indefinite length of time. I've used PA for ~8 months straight.

I only use stuff like Anabeta, Amentomax, and natty products so I should be good to go?