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p-plex havoc cycle

FitModel

FitModel

Active member
I think i'm gonna do this cycle...


week 1 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 2 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 3 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 4 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs

Nizoral 2% EOD

PCT : Lean Xtreme 2, Powerfull, Fenugreek, Drive, Creatine *during and PCT(Mono, NO shotgun, Neovar),
Torem (liquid)

how do I dose the liquid torm?

I am prone to gyno, do u think the 20mgs of havoc throughout will keep gyno non existent.
 
FitModel said:
I think i'm gonna do this cycle...


week 1 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 2 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 3 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 4 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs

Nizoral 2% EOD

PCT : Lean Xtreme 2, Powerfull, Fenugreek, Drive, Creatine *during and PCT(Mono, NO shotgun, Neovar),
Torem (liquid)

how do I dose the liquid torm?

I am prone to gyno, do u think the 20mgs of havoc throughout will keep gyno non existent.
Click to expand...


No do not use havoc to prevent gyno thats a massive mistake. If you wanna use havoc/phera then bridge them, with phera first then havoc to dry the gains out.

dose torem 120/90/60/30 for that cycle IMO.
 
tnick7 said:
No do not use havoc to prevent gyno thats a massive mistake. If you wanna use havoc/phera then bridge them, with phera first then havoc to dry the gains out.

dose torem 120/90/60/30 for that cycle IMO.
Click to expand...

I agree if your going to do both bridge them not really a good idea to be running 2 methyls at the same time for 4 weeks. Are you going to be running support supps?:dance:
 
yeah, i'll be running support supps...

how about

week 1 phera 30mgs
week 2 phera 30mgs (havoc 10mgs?)
week 3 havoc 20mgs
week 4 havoc 20-30mgs

?


yeah I'll be running support supps...I don't want to do phera alone because I think I'll get gyno symptoms after a week or two of use...that is one of my main concerns...
 
FitModel said:
yeah, i'll be running support supps...

how about

week 1 phera 30mgs
week 2 phera 30mgs (havoc 10mgs?)
week 3 havoc 20mgs
week 4 havoc 20-30mgs

?


yeah I'll be running support supps...I don't want to do phera alone because I think I'll get gyno symptoms after a week or two of use...that is one of my main concerns...
Click to expand...

If that is your concern why do you want to run it in the first place? Which support supplements are you gonna run? Cycle support?
 
GMG760 said:
If that is your concern why do you want to run it in the first place? Which support supplements are you gonna run? Cycle support?
Click to expand...

cause I want to get some gains..

first let's address what I have questions about (the actual cycle)...then we can address my cycle support if your so interested, which i already have handled.
 
FitModel said:
yeah, i'll be running support supps...

how about

week 1 phera 30mgs
week 2 phera 30mgs (havoc 10mgs?)
week 3 havoc 20mgs
week 4 havoc 20-30mgs

?


yeah I'll be running support supps...I don't want to do phera alone because I think I'll get gyno symptoms after a week or two of use...that is one of my main concerns...
Click to expand...


If your concerned about gyno from the phera then I would not run it at all. I do not think it is wise to run both of these together IMO.
 
FitModel said:
cause I want to get some gains..

first let's address what I have questions about (the actual cycle)...then we can address my cycle support if your so interested, which i already have handled.
Click to expand...

Yea, you are taking PS to get some gains. That is usually why people take PS. :rofl:

I was asking why you want to take so much if you are concerned with side effects. You'll get gains from either compound by itself. How much weight are you expecting to gain? and to keep? Your name is fitness model... how wet of gains do you really want? Is that gonna effect your career as a model? Is it worth chancing gyno if you are going to be modeling?

Epistane is supposed to give some pretty good gains by itself, and will have a lot less side effects than running two methyls at once, or even bridging them. Why not try Epistane and a non methylated compound? I bet you see good results.

I'm not knocking you bro, I am just trying to figure out what you have going on for your cycle so I might be of some assistance, and your cycle support and PCS will have a lot to do with the side effects that you experience.

BTW, if you want some serious gains with less sides, you might want to just consider the real deal. Big gains with orals usually = big sides. I'm not suggesting the real deal in anyway shape or form, but facts are facts, and it might be something that YOU would want to consider.
 
FitModel said:
I think i'm gonna do this cycle...


week 1 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 2 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 3 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs
week 4 Havoc 20mgs P Plex 30mgs

Nizoral 2% EOD

PCT : Lean Xtreme 2, Powerfull, Fenugreek, Drive, Creatine *during and PCT(Mono, NO shotgun, Neovar),
Torem (liquid)

how do I dose the liquid torm?

I am prone to gyno, do u think the 20mgs of havoc throughout will keep gyno non existent.
Click to expand...

Both of these compounds are known to cause shedding and especially PP. Be mindful that you will more than likely shed a bit even if you are not prone to MPB. I would think that could hinder your career as well.
 
yes, shedding and gyno are definitly my main concerns

I did a cycle of havoc before 20, 30, 40, 40 and suffered some mild shedding the 3rd week and it got progressively worse

hence the low dose of havoc...however I got good gains (10lbs) and I got good gains with phera too, but I havn't done phera since it came out, maybe 2 years ago?

anyways, maybe I'll just run havoc for 3-4 weeks at 20-30mgs, maybe I'll stack with some H-Drol instead?

most stuff I read about proa and furaza and 3ad is that's it's garbage...

any other ideas?
 
While Gyno and balding shouldn't be your main concerns, it is understandable why they are, but they won't kill you. First and foremost, make sure that your internals are covered with support supps and then you may want to think about running something rx for the hairline issues.

You should try an h-drol solo cycle. It has been especially kind to many people's hairlines.
 
Did you end up running this cycle? If so, how did it go?

I'm thinking about running a similar one in a few weeks
PP 30/30/30/45
Hvc 30/30/30/30
 
I don't see why you would stack more stuff in less time. The problem with oral cycles is that the duration is so limited that gains are difficult to maintain, which is why people say NO to dbol only cycles. So running multiple compounds for 4 weeks isn't as good, IMO, as say a bridge of the two compounds for 6 weeks. When it's spread out more, it should be more maintainable. Also i don't think there is much synergy between most steroids, most of the anabolic effect of one overlaps the other, it doesn't become "twice as strong" or anything.

Run the phera first and bridge to Havoc

PP 20/30/30
Havoc 0/0/20/30/30/40

that should be fun
 
UnrealMachine said:
I don't see why you would stack more stuff in less time. The problem with oral cycles is that the duration is so limited that gains are difficult to maintain, which is why people say NO to dbol only cycles. So running multiple compounds for 4 weeks isn't as good, IMO, as say a bridge of the two compounds for 6 weeks. When it's spread out more, it should be more maintainable. Also i don't think there is much synergy between most steroids, most of the anabolic effect of one overlaps the other, it doesn't become "twice as strong" or anything.

Run the phera first and bridge to Havoc

PP 20/30/30
Havoc 0/0/20/30/30/40

that should be fun
Click to expand...

Agreed. This is the cycle I'm planning on running in January.
 
I was thinking about running 4 week stack of epi/phera.

I know everyone says to bridge them. However, epistane is far to dry for my joints at the effective 40mg dose by itself. I dont really see gains until 40mgs and it kills my elbows.

I figured, since pheraplex is wet and powerful, Id stack epistane with it at a low dose of 20mg to assist in drying out the pheraplex and adding some additional anabolism.

I may just run a 5 week cycle with a two week bridge.
PP-20/20/30/30
Epi-0/0/30/30/30

Epi starts at week 3 and kicks in at week 5 to dry up/provide extra week of support after pheraplex to help keep gains without enough time to really dry up joints.
 
monsterbox said:
I was thinking about running 4 week stack of epi/phera.

I know everyone says to bridge them. However, epistane is far to dry for my joints at the effective 40mg dose by itself. I dont really see gains until 40mgs and it kills my elbows.

I figured, since pheraplex is wet and powerful, Id stack epistane with it at a low dose of 20mg to assist in drying out the pheraplex and adding some additional anabolism.

I may just run a 5 week cycle with a two week bridge.
PP-20/20/30/30
Epi-0/0/30/30/30

Epi starts at week 3 and kicks in at week 5 to dry up/provide extra week of support after pheraplex to help keep gains without enough time to really dry up joints.
Click to expand...

I'm halfway through a 4 week Epi at 30 mgs, but I really want to try 40 mgs, but would have to buy another bottle. I'm thinking of just continuing this cycle the way it is and then doing more of a bulker in January with the Phera/Epistane bridge. I can feel the dryness in my joints at 30 but its nothing bad.
 
thegodfather said:
I'm halfway through a 4 week Epi at 30 mgs, but I really want to try 40 mgs, but would have to buy another bottle. I'm thinking of just continuing this cycle the way it is and then doing more of a bulker in January with the Phera/Epistane bridge. I can feel the dryness in my joints at 30 but its nothing bad.
Click to expand...


The dryness at 40mg is unbearable for my elbow. I have cartlidge damage in my elbow and epistane causes it to swell up inside and become immobile above 20-30mg range.

I have to run phera w/ epi or something wet with epi.


Lets run that ***** together! Let me know what date u plan to start. We are the same weight. This should be fun.
 
monsterbox said:
The dryness at 40mg is unbearable for my elbow. I have cartlidge damage in my elbow and epistane causes it to swell up inside and become immobile above 20-30mg range.

I have to run phera w/ epi or something wet with epi.


Lets run that ***** together! Let me know what date u plan to start. We are the same weight. This should be fun.
Click to expand...

Will do bro.
 
monsterbox said:
I was thinking about running 4 week stack of epi/phera.

I know everyone says to bridge them. However, epistane is far to dry for my joints at the effective 40mg dose by itself. I dont really see gains until 40mgs and it kills my elbows.

I figured, since pheraplex is wet and powerful, Id stack epistane with it at a low dose of 20mg to assist in drying out the pheraplex and adding some additional anabolism.

I may just run a 5 week cycle with a two week bridge.
PP-20/20/30/30
Epi-0/0/30/30/30

Epi starts at week 3 and kicks in at week 5 to dry up/provide extra week of support after pheraplex to help keep gains without enough time to really dry up joints.
Click to expand...
You will blow up on this big time and so will your strength. Be careful with PP though, gave me gyno very quickly. Have some caber on hand.
 
Australian made said:
You will blow up on this big time and so will your strength. Be careful with PP though, gave me gyno very quickly. Have some caber on hand.
Click to expand...

are you speaking of prolactin gyno? Gyno on cycle or off? What were the symptoms?

I figure that epistane will provide enough anti-estrogenic effects that I wont need to run some kind of AI on cycle. Considering the fact that on paper PP isn't support to aromatize, an AI isn't needed anyhow. However alot of people choose to use one and I'd like some anti-estrogenic support.

I plan to run L-Dopa and P-5-P to counteract prolactin. Is Caber really necessary or will these work. I was thinking about using L-Dopa bulk powder on cycle and ramping up the dosage during PCT.

Will be using Toremifene Citrate afterwards as well.

Comments? Thoughts? Concerns?
 
hey fellas....say you didnt want to deal with the gyno from pp and like the really dry gains in havoc. other than large doses of fish oils what would be a suitable remedy (or at least some relief) from the terrible joint pain that comes with good dry gains from havoc. p.s.-great to be on here finally. ive gotten so much good info from this site in the past :clean:
 
monsterbox said:
are you speaking of prolactin gyno? Gyno on cycle or off? What were the symptoms?

I figure that epistane will provide enough anti-estrogenic effects that I wont need to run some kind of AI on cycle. Considering the fact that on paper PP isn't support to aromatize, an AI isn't needed anyhow. However alot of people choose to use one and I'd like some anti-estrogenic support.

I plan to run L-Dopa and P-5-P to counteract prolactin. Is Caber really necessary or will these work. I was thinking about using L-Dopa bulk powder on cycle and ramping up the dosage during PCT.

Will be using Toremifene Citrate afterwards as well.

Comments? Thoughts? Concerns?
Click to expand...
Gyno on cycle. L-Dopa and p5p should be enough but i dont think Nolva will do anything if you start getting gyno symptons from PP. I could be completely wrong but thats my nuderstanding on it. Caber from a research site is cheap so its worth having on hand.
 
UnrealMachine said:
I don't see why you would stack more stuff in less time. The problem with oral cycles is that the duration is so limited that gains are difficult to maintain, which is why people say NO to dbol only cycles. So running multiple compounds for 4 weeks isn't as good, IMO, as say a bridge of the two compounds for 6 weeks. When it's spread out more, it should be more maintainable. Also i don't think there is much synergy between most steroids, most of the anabolic effect of one overlaps the other, it doesn't become "twice as strong" or anything.

Run the phera first and bridge to Havoc

PP 20/30/30
Havoc 0/0/20/30/30/40

that should be fun
Click to expand...

Precisely! i know everyone on this board is for these 3-4 week cycles. but the gains on a 6 weeker(for oral) tends to stay on my body much longer even if there is alot less weight gain after the 4rth week. it seems to solidfy your gains. if you stay on a bit longer.
 
Australian made said:
Gyno on cycle. L-Dopa and p5p should be enough but i dont think Nolva will do anything if you start getting gyno symptons from PP. I could be completely wrong but thats my nuderstanding on it. Caber from a research site is cheap so its worth having on hand.
Click to expand...

Once again it depends on what type of gyno it is developing. Prolactin induced use Caber, p5p, etc, otherwise use Nolva.
 
there really needs to be a sticky about pp and controlling prolactin gyno and estro gyno and the differences between the two
 
monsterbox said:
there really needs to be a sticky about pp and controlling prolactin gyno and estro gyno and the differences between the two
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I'm thinking of going with M1/4ADD instead. Seems to be a good bulker, not as strong as PP but still good. I'm so damn undecided.
 
thegodfather said:
Totally agree. I'm thinking of going with M1/4ADD instead. Seems to be a good bulker, not as strong as PP but still good. I'm so damn undecided.
Click to expand...

Well I just finished a 4 weeker of PP and Havoc and everything looks/feels good so far (2.5 weeks into PCT). But of course last time I got delayed gyno, though I think my PCT is more on point this time.

I wouldn't waste my time with anything weaker than PP or SD, and definitely not by itself. The trade off is not good enough.
 
ajensen11 said:
Well I just finished a 4 weeker of PP and Havoc and everything looks/feels good so far (2.5 weeks into PCT). But of course last time I got delayed gyno, though I think my PCT is more on point this time.

I wouldn't waste my time with anything weaker than PP or SD, and definitely not by itself. The trade off is not good enough.
Click to expand...

you did the same cycle last time?

what was your pct last time and this time?

how bad was the delayed gyno...was it actually lumps forming?
 
monsterbox said:
you did the same cycle last time?

what was your pct last time and this time?

how bad was the delayed gyno...was it actually lumps forming?
Click to expand...

Last Time

PP 30/30/30/45

Nolva 60/60/30/30
ATD 3/3/3/3
DTH 0/6/6/6

This Time
PP 30/30/45/45
Havoc 20/30/40/40

Clomid 150/100/100/50 (not exactly 7 days each)
Nolva 30/30/30/30
DTH 0/6/6/6


Yes, it was real lumps that formed about 2 weeks after PCT. ATD, Nolva, and Letro didnt really help, but a Havoc cycle got rid of it.
 
ajensen11 said:
Last Time

PP 30/30/30/45

Nolva 60/60/30/30
ATD 3/3/3/3
DTH 0/6/6/6

This Time
PP 30/30/45/45
Havoc 20/30/40/40

Clomid 150/100/100/50 (not exactly 7 days each)
Nolva 30/30/30/30
DTH 0/6/6/6


Yes, it was real lumps that formed about 2 weeks after PCT. ATD, Nolva, and Letro didnt really help, but a Havoc cycle got rid of it.
Click to expand...


anyone care to comment on this...

this sounds like massive estrogen rebound for not tapering your ATD down properly or your nolva

The first time, you should have run nolva at no more than 40mg/20mg/20mg/10mg while ramping up the ATD 0/0/2/3 then tapering back down 3/2/2/1

ATD murders estrogen, and then you have major rebound if you don't taper.




You need to taper down that nolva 30/20/20/10 or something....this way you can judge your body's responsiveness to the estrogen thats circulating and input an AI to eliminate any aromatase that occurs upon exiting the SERM. The whole reason of ATD is to block aromatase....with a SERM in use, aromatase doesn't matter. As you come off the SERM you need to enter an AI for safety incase the SERM didn't bring you back fast enough. But you must taper off the AI because if you quit at full dosage you'll be left with squelched estrogen and higher test....the estrogen will overshoot the test and cause gyno.

BTW 150mg Clomid sounds high to me and so does 30 nolva for more than 1 week...more doesn't help, your receptors are already blocked at a lower dose, in fact you'll inhibit gains with too much nolva

Anyhow what gains did you make how did you run the cycle...Im guessing a stack..how did this compare to pp alone?
 
monsterbox said:
anyone care to comment on this...

this sounds like massive estrogen rebound for not tapering your ATD down properly or your nolva

The first time, you should have run nolva at no more than 40mg/20mg/20mg/10mg while ramping up the ATD 0/0/2/3 then tapering back down 3/2/2/1

ATD murders estrogen, and then you have major rebound if you don't taper.




You need to taper down that nolva 30/20/20/10 or something....this way you can judge your body's responsiveness to the estrogen thats circulating and input an AI to eliminate any aromatase that occurs upon exiting the SERM. The whole reason of ATD is to block aromatase....with a SERM in use, aromatase doesn't matter. As you come off the SERM you need to enter an AI for safety incase the SERM didn't bring you back fast enough. But you must taper off the AI because if you quit at full dosage you'll be left with squelched estrogen and higher test....the estrogen will overshoot the test and cause gyno.

BTW 150mg Clomid sounds high to me and so does 30 nolva for more than 1 week...more doesn't help, your receptors are already blocked at a lower dose, in fact you'll inhibit gains with too much nolva

Anyhow what gains did you make how did you run the cycle...Im guessing a stack..how did this compare to pp alone?
Click to expand...


Yeah, I am thinking that the ATD is to blame for the gyno since I didnt read up enough about it, tsk tsk. But now I am using E-Form, which I forgot to add to the list, and am going to ramp up and back down. I actually ran Clomid at 150 the first day and then 100 for the next 13 days and I'm now on 50 till it's gone, up to 2 weeks. As per the Nolva and clomid, I'm using the clomid, for the first time, to see if it brings back the boys faster than Nolva or Torem since I tend to get shut down HARD off of PHs, and Nolva is for gyno prevention.

Yes, too much Nolva will inhibit gains, but in PCT I'm more worried about keeping the gains I've made, not making any. If you bring that up than you should bring up that clomid increases SHBG, which I think the DTH will help with.

Well I dont think you can compare your first cycle to your 5th or 6th, which is what is shown. But DB flat and incline bench, and bent-over DB row went up ~10lbs per DB this time, though I've lost some strength since. And I think it was about the same gains last time, though you cant really compare DB bench to BB bench.
 
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