OraTropin cycle log

Thats a good point SJA. My question is this. Over at IBE i beleive these are 60 dollars a box correct which lasts 15 days? Not to sure i just think i read this somewhere, and info is appreciated and what is the diff between IGF and GH or HGH? Havnt done much research on this either. Also you would have to keep this refrigerated correct?

Thanks guys for the answers, always helpful here and this is my new board as well! :-D Dont mean to impeed on ur post either, good log btw though.

Nvm on edit i went to the IBE website and found out the GH released peptides are 60 dollars and the Oratropin kits are 130 a piece. My bad guys.
 
I have seen numerous different references that recommend 4 weeks on followed by 4 weeks off.
What I do not understand is why so many want to use this during PCT. I would much rather take full advantage of the cell splitting benefits during a period where I am also experiencing chemically enhanced cell growth. The results obtained in this manner are just plain crazy.
A cycle lasting for 8 weeks or so would allow one to use IGF-1 for 30 days during cycle, and also resume use 30 days later sometime during PCT.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat. :thumbsup:
 
good point, mm. That is another interesting idea. Hopefully some others will chime in similarly. Seems to make some sense.
 
I'd like to run an 8 week cycle with short esters. Run the ortropin for weeks 1-4. Run the last 4 weeks of my cycle, and then hit up PCT with oratropin and nolva. THat would probably be a crazy ass, but very succesful SHORT cycle that will be PLENTY worth it IMO. Less sides and everything. :cool:

Like this:
weeks 1-8: 750mg test prop + 500mg bold prop/NPP....or whatever anabolic.
weeks 1-4: 80-100mcgs' oratropin
PCT weeks 9-12: 80-100mcgs' oratropin.

Hell yeah, I might actually do this come summer.
 
mmorpheuss said:
I have seen numerous different references that recommend 4 weeks on followed by 4 weeks off.
What I do not understand is why so many want to use this during PCT. I would much rather take full advantage of the cell splitting benefits during a period where I am also experiencing chemically enhanced cell growth. The results obtained in this manner are just plain crazy.
A cycle lasting for 8 weeks or so would allow one to use IGF-1 for 30 days during cycle, and also resume use 30 days later sometime during PCT.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat. :thumbsup:
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This is my plan but I'm going 3weeks begining of cycle, three weeks just AS, then 2 more weeks AS and 3 more weeks IGF. I might put an extra week in the middle so it goes further into post cycle.

The idea of being able to lose fat and keep making gains at the end of a cycle instead of gaining fat and losing muscle is what attract people to PCT. I think its well worth it. Because you can keep growing all year round. No determental stages of post cycle to get you down.
 
lifted said:
weeks 1-4: 80-100mcgs' oratropin
PCT weeks 9-12: 80-100mcgs' oratropin
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Granted, we've little actual info to go by - but if I understand the nature of the 'cell-mediation', there would be no point to doing more than 1 syringe per day. Since the state of the receptors seems to drive the release of the IGF-1 from the carrier (yes, I could be totally talking out of my ass here) - allowing the 24-48hr sustained availability that IBE claims - it would seem that high-dosing would simply increase the amount of "suspended" IGF-1 that's waiting for available receptors, rather than gaining any increased-dosage effectiveness.

Maybe IBE will say a word on the question.
 
Lean One said:
Not doubting your knowledge, but that's the first time I've ever heard anything like that. Then again, My research on IGF-1 is limited 'cuz I never thought I would ever use it. Can anyone verify that? :blink:
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I got it from the sticky, no offense taken,


"3. Use- Usage should not exceed 4-5 weeks, and an OFF period should be about the same. Daily dosages work best (split up into 2 seems to make little difference in the Long R3 version) Most people see results at about 40mcg/day, some use as low as 30mcg/day, and some folks even use 80-100mcg. I SUGGEST to ALL first time users no matter what level, to start at about 40-50mcg/day."

"The most effective length for a cycle of IGF is 50 days on and 20-40 days off. The most controversy surrounding Long R3 IGF-1 is the effective dosage. The most used dosages range between 20mcg/day to 120+mcg/day. IGF is only available by the milligram, one mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 20mcg/day, 2mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 40mcg/day, 3mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 60mcg/day, 4mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 80mcg/day and so on. The dosage issue mainly revolves around how much money you have to spend, plenty of people use the minimum dosage of 20mcg/day and are happy with the results, and in fact several top bodybuilders use the 20mcg/day dosage and are pleased with the results. IGF is most effective when administered subcutaneously and injected once or twice daily at your current dosage. The best time for injections is either in the morning and/or immediately after weight training. "

"The conversion rate of GH is more like 1 iu gh = 4-6 mcg of igf-1.

If this is true (and let's pick 5mcg for an avg), 30mcg of igf = 6ius of GH. I've done enough GH to comment that it may be slightly better than this. The only bad thing is that it stops working in 4-6 weeks. Then you have to take the same time off as you were on before starting again. It has something to do with how the IGF was modified to produce the "long" version and your body eventually figures it out."
 
mmorpheuss said:
I have seen numerous different references that recommend 4 weeks on followed by 4 weeks off.
What I do not understand is why so many want to use this during PCT. I would much rather take full advantage of the cell splitting benefits during a period where I am also experiencing chemically enhanced cell growth. The results obtained in this manner are just plain crazy.
A cycle lasting for 8 weeks or so would allow one to use IGF-1 for 30 days during cycle, and also resume use 30 days later sometime during PCT.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...


That is a great idea. If the price comes down, I'll be giving this a whirl. But right now, at $130 for two weeks + whatever else you are taking, that would be an assload of money.
 
Ahh yes the picture is becoming clearer now. The feedback from everyone is awesome. :box: What a fucking kickass board we have here. :thumbsup:

BTW, where the hell is riskbarb? :blink:
 
Riskarb's probably sleeping. :lol:
Before I started taking this stuff, I was waking up and my wife was still tired. Now, my wife is getting up, meanwhile, i'm zonked out in a pool of sweat even though the temperature in the house is turned down to 60.

I'm past the point of wondering whether or not this stuff works. now I'm sort of selfishly hoping that IBE going mainstream doesn't hurt the life of this product. I know it costs a decent amount of cash, but this stuff has officially been put at the top of the list with food, toothpaste, soap, and toilet paper. :thumbsup:
 
mmorpheuss said:
Riskarb's probably sleeping. :lol:
Before I started taking this stuff, I was waking up and my wife was still tired. Now, my wife is getting up, meanwhile, i'm zonked out in a pool of sweat even though the temperature in the house is turned down to 60.

I'm past the point of wondering whether or not this stuff works. now I'm sort of selfishly hoping that IBE going mainstream doesn't hurt the life of this product. I know it costs a decent amount of cash, but this stuff has officially been put at the top of the list with food, toothpaste, soap, and toilet paper. :thumbsup:
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Don't forget Deoderant!! :icon_lol: :run:
 
BodyWizard said:
Granted, we've little actual info to go by - but if I understand the nature of the 'cell-mediation', there would be no point to doing more than 1 syringe per day. Since the state of the receptors seems to drive the release of the IGF-1 from the carrier (yes, I could be totally talking out of my ass here) - allowing the 24-48hr sustained availability that IBE claims - it would seem that high-dosing would simply increase the amount of "suspended" IGF-1 that's waiting for available receptors, rather than gaining any increased-dosage effectiveness.

Maybe IBE will say a word on the question.
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oops, yeah you're right. I actually meant 40mcg's ED. I was thinking of those other peptides IBE sells and the dosing regimen for them (GHRP-agonists/antagonists). 80-100mcgs ED would be EXPENSIVE!!!
 
It's riskARB, bitches! [In my best Samuel L. Jackson voice]

Almost done with the first kit; face is noticeably thinner, weight is static at -1lb since cycle began. I've been at maintenance calories and haven't done a lick of cardio since the cycle began -- it was impossible to run with my head cold. The weight loss is not statistically significant, but I look better, sorry for the anecdotes. I imagine I'll have relevant data by the time I finish the second kit.

Nothing to report on sides, there are none. The rash has not reappeared.

I will say that I am in the hyper-responder camp with regards to gear/supps... I lost a ton of weight and maintained LBM while on inj-IGF[igtropin], this is certainly more subtle.

F*ck Morpheus, you're clairvoyant... I was taking a 3hour nap when you posted.
 
man, the guns at Avant are just shelling this stuff as the biggest ripoff since I dunno, whatever the biggest ripoff was. No chance, no-how it can possibly work, etc. etc. I don't doubt the scientific expertise of these critics, and am a consumer of their products as well. However, I am very curious to see how the results of Oratropin pan out. IBE, have you seen the commentary?
 
Yeah, I and many respect what PA has to say... and certainly I did find it hard to believe in the oral availability of IGF, not to mention the cell-mediation claims. I own the stuff so I will see it through, but I seriously doubt I'd buy another kit -- unless I see objective-gains by end of cycle. Either way, I'd likely go with igtropin for my next IGF cycle; the results were undeniable.
 
for the sake of those in the peanut gallery, could you quantify the objective gains you want to see, that you would expect from an injectable cycle? Do you feel you are off-track for meeting your expectations?
 
BodyWizard said:
for the sake of those in the peanut gallery, could you quantify the objective gains you want to see, that you would expect from an injectable cycle? Do you feel you are off-track for meeting your expectations?
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Sure, I keep a very strict[static] diet and w/o when on any cycle, in an attempt to isolate the gains. My 25d cycle of IGF saw my bf drop from 12% to 10% and a corresponding weight loss of 6 pounds -- going from a peak of 228 to a trough of 222 on day 25 of the igtropin cycle.

There very well may be active IGF in these kits, and it may be orally-active, but I won't be going to oral route[again] unless I see comparable results.
 
Well for what it's worth, I don't trust PA as far as I could throw him. He's a scumbag IMO and he does whatever he can so he can sabotage other's products, etc. Everybody says that he's so much nicer in person....well ya know what? I would be too if a 300lb. monster was the other player in the conversation. THis guy has proven time and time again that he's a true hypocrite.

Riskarb, please don't let outside influences distract you from giving an honest log here. I find it funny how other people on an internet message board need other "vets" approval so they can take a liking to them. Not saying that this is the case with you now, but keep in mind thsi is the internet, if you have nothing more to gain than helping out other members that are interested in your trials, then the hell with everybody else and what their "cliques" think and do.

With that being said, good luck with the rest of your analysis.
 
This technology is way past his level of an organic chemist such as PA, we couldn't even begin to be able to explain the science behind it to where he would comprehend or agree that it is plausible.
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That sounds like a massive cop-out.
 
Instead of open discussion and reasoning it has been a lot of fancy/commical dialogue to distract the members from the true subject matter that he cannot and will not try to explain. I understand why he is backing down from explaining why it won't work,nobody in his place (being a well-respected man of science) would want to admit that they don't understand it, but instead insults anyone for believing that it could work. The fact of the matter remains, the scientific reasoning and publications are exist and because we have to protect the product before patents are published, we are getting riduculed.
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How about you just kind of 'intimate' comprehensive answers to the following reasons I'm skeptical of this product:

- How are you imparting your IGF-1 with adequate lipid solubility to make it through the oral mucosa?

- How, explicitly, is it escaping enzyme degredation in the gut? are you using enteric peptidases? a CMC-inhibitor? Is the delivery system encorporating polymethacrylate?

- Have you done tracer studies on this product? Please explain how "pulsatile" delivery is achieved.

- How are you ensuring intact portal-passage of the growth factor?

- Has this IGF-1 been reconstituted. If so, how? And please elaborate on the storage conditions.

- What in the product ensures biological activity? Insulin-like Invalid Link Removed needs to be bound to BP3 for it to have targeted activity. How have you upregulated affinity for BP3 to prevent proteolyzation of your compound? (Because it seems to me like you're insinuating that you somehow have...)

- Also, if the delivery method is hypothetically effective, how is this not inducing skeletal muscular insulin resistance in 'target tissues'? Are you? Please explain in detail.

- Is the product a bound complex? If so, what is the IGF-1 bound to?
 
IBE said:
Since you are in the supplement industry as well and you are obviously trying to get us to tell you how it works so that you can attempt to recreate it.....this sounds like a cop-out from you. The clock is ticking on you. We gave you the hint, we are not going to spoon feed it to you, it is not our job. You think that you are so smart, go figure it out and get back to us.
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Bullshit. You can't even begin to answer my questions...

I have no vested interest in research chemicals. It has become abundantly clear to me that your shroud of "secrecy" is nothing but an attempt to hoodwink honest athletes and capitalize on the void left by banned pro-hormones. Your conduct, your posts, your lack of any peer-reviewed data or studies that even remotely insinuate that you have the kind of molecular biology understanding that would lead me to conclude that you could in fact make this a viable product, do not shine favorably upon you good sir.

When Elzi Volk talks about IGF-1 and says "I don't want to give things away" I believe her because she has research credentials and every single post she makes intimates that she thoroughly understands this subject matter. Your posts indicate nothing of the sort. Why don't you tell me a little bit about the stability or percentages of ternary or binary complexes, SOMETHING that makes me feel like you are actually well-educated in terms of temporal and spatial regulation of growth factors within the human body. Because right now you are showing no one in this forum anything but smoke and a mirror-shiny serum...
 
Lowki said:
How about you just kind of 'intimate' comprehensive answers to the following reasons I'm skeptical of this product:

- How are you imparting your IGF-1 with adequate lipid solubility to make it through the oral mucosa?

- How, explicitly, is it escaping enzyme degredation in the gut? are you using enteric peptidases? a CMC-inhibitor? Is the delivery system encorporating polymethacrylate?

- Have you done tracer studies on this product? Please explain how "pulsatile" delivery is achieved.

- How are you ensuring intact portal-passage of the growth factor?

- Has this IGF-1 been reconstituted. If so, how? And please elaborate on the storage conditions.

- What in the product ensures biological activity? Insulin-like Invalid Link Removed needs to be bound to BP3 for it to have targeted activity. How have you upregulated affinity for BP3 to prevent proteolyzation of your compound? (Because it seems to me like you're insinuating that you somehow have...)

- Also, if the delivery method is hypothetically effective, how is this not inducing skeletal muscular insulin resistance in 'target tissues'? Are you? Please explain in detail.

- Is the product a bound complex? If so, what is the IGF-1 bound to?
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Um so you want him to specifically answer questions that would basically give you a good idea on how to duplicate it? Also, if you read his replies he already answered the second question. He said it never reaches the gut. How can you argue with someone and not even read and try to understand their responses? If you're skeptical then just wait and time will tell if his product is valid. I mean really I don't know if I'm willing to buy Oratropin yet, but I understand the reality that it would be stupid to divulge how it's made and destroy your own profits. With any new process there is a window when profit is maximized until other companies can figure out how to duplicate it.
 
I'm all for debate. It is healthy and necessarry (to a point). That said, I hope this will not become a name-calling bitch-session a la BB.com. This place is different, and as much fun as it is sometimes to read that banter, it seems that it generally brings the quality of the conversation down.
 
Foster said:
Um so you want him to specifically answer questions that would basically give you a good idea on how to duplicate it? Also, if you read his replies he already answered the second question. He said it never reaches the gut. How can you argue with someone and not even read and try to understand their responses? If you're skeptical then just wait and time will tell if his product is valid. I mean really I don't know if I'm willing to buy Oratropin yet, but I understand the reality that it would be stupid to divulge how it's made and destroy your own profits. With any new process there is a window when profit is maximized until other companies can figure out how to duplicate it.
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You misunderstand. He doesn't need to give away anything. I do not consider him a competitor (we are practically in different businesses), and if he has indeed made an effective oral IGF-1 supplement, than I will congradulate him readily. But I have seen nothing that even gives me a shread of credible evidence that would indicate he can make IGF-1 orally bioavailable. All I ask to see is some direct response, something that will at least assuage my skepticism. So far I have gotten nothing.
 
:sad: Everyones getting a free kit but me :lol:


Its alright though. Seeing as how my kit is obviously working, its only fair that I pay for it :thumbsup:
 
For one thing, you can't seem to understand that it is not IBE that created this technology and remarkable discovery, but it is IBE that is utilizing it. Another thing, we do have to be secretive and protective of this technology because it will be used for pharmacuetical products in the near future. It is not in our hands when and to who to disclose the answers you are searching for. We will give you one more hint and if you cannot figure it out from there then you are just being a jealous dick. I mean really, who's interest are you protecting? One more hint, try to think about how a virus works.....hint, hint.
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Cute. You asked our admin if you could explain the science on our site. He gave you his permission. Then you post these little vague intimations, trying to send us off on PubMed wild-goose chases. Cut with the mysticism and actually say something credible. I'm not going to be swayed by this sort of deception. It's your product, not mine.

How about IBE donating a kit to you to try, to see for yourself that it works, or to test even. If you don't accept a kit, then you are simply out to get us.
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Wondergul way to phrase it. I really do appreciate you making it seem like some vast conspiracy or vendetta against your product. And I am not going to play lab-rat for your designer drug, especially given the fact that you have still not provided me with anything reasonable to make me even begin to think it would do me more good than harm.
 
IBE, this loky character doesn't have his training/diet down anyways. This KID is a 145lb. stringbean.
 
lifted said:
IBE, this loky character doesn't have his training/diet down anyways. This KID is a 145lb. stringbean.
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I weight 215, so let's dispense with the ad hominem attacks.

And are you trying to intimate that there's a correlation between size and knowledge?? I'm sure that theory's gonna' fly...
 
Damn Lowky if you and the Yahoos over at Avant are so brilliant why on earth would you have to orally ingest the product to analyze it?
 
Lowki said:
I weight 215, so let's dispense with the ad hominem attacks.

And are you trying to intimate that there's a correlation between size and knowledge?? I'm sure that theory's gonna' fly...
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From the pics I've seen over at avant, you don't weigh anywhere near 210lbs. If you've actually gained 60 some lbs. of muscle since the time you posted your pics, then please accept my apologies.

And if a person doesn't have his diet/training down to a T, then how the hell do you expect an honest controlled trial of a new product to be deemed useless/worthy?

I think that knowledge is attainable for anyone, as long as they put their minds to it and work at it. But I was speaking of testing out products, you misunderstood.

Invalid Link Removed
 
From the pics I've seen over at avant, you don't weigh anywhere near 210lbs. If you've actually gained 60 some lbs. of muscle since the time you posted your pics, then please accept my apologies.
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No harm no foul.
 
Now we all see what you are about. You won't even accept a free product to try to prove that it doesn't work.
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Even if I wanted to use it (I really don't), it would not be possible given personal circumstances (travel) that will make it extremely possibly for me to train and log regularly until the start of April. If you are willing to raincheck me until April 3, I am tempted to take you at your word, but obviously this puts you in a bind, and does little good as far as tester feedback is concerned. Such is my state, and it cannot be changed.


We gave you 2 very key hints as to how this product can work and it does not require a PubMed goose chase, but a simple understanding on the area of science (one search necessary) to piece together the general idea. What you can't figure it out? I would suggest you leave this post alone.
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No, I've figured out what the delivery method is. The peptide is small enough that it could potentially pass through, assuming its not degraded by salivary enzymes and you have a miracle carrier. Why not just have us snort it though? Intranasal insulin seems promising from the clinical trials I've seen.
 
Time will tell if OraTropin is effective as the injectable igf-1 ,having said that the few bro`s that are using this product some of them respected mods and it appears to be given positive results so far in the early stages.I look forward to having a good 30 day run of OraTropin when i recieve hopefully soon.IBE answer you emails at the OraTropin web page mate ive sent a couple over the weekend ....
 
You won't even accept a free product to try to prove that it doesn't work.
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I have done 2 cycles of IGF, I would be glad to accecpt his kit and log in every day :P

Anyway I feel this thread is becoming incressingly useless. The only way to prove one way or another if this works and get real info and facts on this stuff is to read what those that have used it have to say about it and report.

Enough of the BS, wait for a good number of people to post logs then make your claims. Some people on here are ready to hang IBE before even sending him to trial.
 
IBE -- not meant to slam the product... I should've elaborated that I've had a nasty bug for 10 days and dropping weight, albeit slight, first appears in my face. These aren't 2x blind clinical trials; it's difficult to determine the vector.

In any event -- I did enter into this log with the best intentions. ****, I paid $296 for the product!
 
the anapolack said:
so can it be used with say 40 mcg media grade lr3 or not?

and yeah....penile injections are not a joke i want to get into porn
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That would just be 80mcgs of IGF.

If you want penis enlargement look in to Topical DHT. It is used as a treatment for micropenis.
 
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