Oratropin 1 Info

I've done the regular R3 IGF injectible (at 40 and 20) and liked it..but measuring it out in the slin pins is a pain! I'm waiting on some Oratropin right now and will start it as soon as possible...whiiich might be awhile.
 
workin2005 said:
how much oratrophin-1 are you all taking? the 40mcgs it cones in seems to low of a does. seems like you would need to take at least 2 (total of 80mcgs) per day to n=make it worth it and that would run a pretty penny!!!!:frustrate
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That is the way I would like to run it too. But damn it gets expensive. :D

For the injectable I definitely notice quite a difference in 40mcgs and 80/100mcgs. I would assume the same will be true for OT.
 
I notice a huge difference between a 40mcg dose vs a 80-100mcg dose. I really didnt notice much off 40mcgs, but at 100mcgs it was great!
There are guys on other boards running the injectable r3igf-1 at 200mcgs per day and LOVING IT!
I think this compound is going to eventually be used at much higher dosages than most are currently running. Its just so new and so expensive that safety and cost are a big issue right now.
 
Neuromancer said:
That is the way I would like to run it too. But damn it gets expensive. :D

For the injectable I definitely notice quite a difference in 40mcgs and 80/100mcgs. I would assume the same will be true for OT.
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First let me say that I believe OT is a proven effective supp-in spite of all early contrary speculation. That said,
I am also of the mind that higher dosing is needed for max results. I posted such a suggestion some time ago because it was (and still is) my feeling that if 40mcg is a reasonable dose (inj) then there is no way that oral dosing at 40 is equivalent. Others pointed out that the "oral" dosing of OT is not your normal oral/stomach/digestion route, but oral absorbtion, per se. Even so, if you swish it around your mouth then swallow it, it still isn't gonna compare to injected. Anyone else feel this makes sense? And if so, shouldn't OT be dosed according to the comparable oral absorbtion rate?
 
If it were cheap Id love to experiment with highter doses, who knows maybe amazing things can occur with 80-100mcg's + per day.

Question: Have any of you guys mixed OT or injectable Lr3 w/ AAS and slin together? If yes, how did it go? and what kind of adjustments (if any) to dosages and dietary intake do you make?
 
milwood said:
First let me say that I believe OT is a proven effective supp-in spite of all early contrary speculation. That said,
I am also of the mind that higher dosing is needed for max results. I posted such a suggestion some time ago because it was (and still is) my feeling that if 40mcg is a reasonable dose (inj) then there is no way that oral dosing at 40 is equivalent. Others pointed out that the "oral" dosing of OT is not your normal oral/stomach/digestion route, but oral absorbtion, per se. Even so, if you swish it around your mouth then swallow it, it still isn't gonna compare to injected. Anyone else feel this makes sense? And if so, shouldn't OT be dosed according to the comparable oral absorbtion rate?
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Thats a good point, unfortunately I don't know enough about the mechanisim of absorbtion to really have any usfull input one way or the other that this may or may not be true.

But just from my experience with the injectable lr3, I can tell you I don't want to run the OT at 40mcgs. More like 80. They do say that it has a sustained release so that could play a role in the dosing, but I will certainly let you know when I try. :D
 
workin2005 said:
I notice a huge difference between a 40mcg dose vs a 80-100mcg dose. I really didnt notice much off 40mcgs, but at 100mcgs it was great!
There are guys on other boards running the injectable r3igf-1 at 200mcgs per day and LOVING IT!
I think this compound is going to eventually be used at much higher dosages than most are currently running. Its just so new and so expensive that safety and cost are a big issue right now.
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I agree. I liked it at 40mcgs, but it jsut wasn't what everyone seemed to report. But at 80mcgs to 100mcgs, I really liked it. Got what others had been describing plus some.

I have seen the huge dosages being used, the big problem is the price. Wow 200mcgs would be expensive.
 
UnicronSpawn said:
If it were cheap Id love to experiment with highter doses, who knows maybe amazing things can occur with 80-100mcg's + per day.

Question: Have any of you guys mixed OT or injectable Lr3 w/ AAS and slin together? If yes, how did it go? and what kind of adjustments (if any) to dosages and dietary intake do you make?
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bump
 
I fear some of yall are neglecting the risk to reward ration of these higher dosages. Why not look at what more qualified and experienced users report effective and "safer" dosages to be?
 
I just think it unwise to run high doses of this stuff. You have to remember that when HGH came out, people toyed with excessive doses and reported good results as well. Years down the road they regretted it. This stuff bears too many similarities to HGH..organ growth, appendage growth et cetera, for me to want to OD on it. I feel it's plenty potent at 20-40mcg but that's just me.
 
bioman said:
I just think it unwise to run high doses of this stuff. You have to remember that when HGH came out, people toyed with excessive doses and reported good results as well. Years down the road they regretted it. This stuff bears too many similarities to HGH..organ growth, appendage growth et cetera, for me to want to OD on it. I feel it's plenty potent at 20-40mcg but that's just me.
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amen! I would not run either the oratropin or inj. versions above 40 (or 20 bilaterally)
 
i agree! once you start to reach higher doses the receptor sites are used up and you have igf just floating around looking to attach itself somewhere which is where you start to experience everything bad associated with igf. while the 40mcg dose wont make your results on cycle outstanding you have to remember that you just created a bunch of new muscle cells that are waiting to grow. this is definitely a case where more is NOT better, just more dangerous. i remember a conversation with IBE, it might've been on here where they were discussing the sustained release of their oratropin. They said that the technology of the delivery system allows it to keep the receptor sites full and it will keep circulating until one opens up. which, if true, makes it very low risk and pretty much unnecessary to up the dosage. but it's your decision.
 
As to the comments regarding anabolism - I didn't find that at all when I ran oratropin. I found it increased vascularity and gave my muscles a full feeling, also increased my appetite like no other, yet I lost weight and kept strength. I used it as a bridge between cycles during my PCT.
 
SecretOfSteel said:
As to the comments regarding anabolism - I didn't find that at all when I ran oratropin. I found it increased vascularity and gave my muscles a full feeling, also increased my appetite like no other, yet I lost weight and kept strength. I used it as a bridge between cycles during my PCT.
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give it time. the new cells need time to grow. i ran it in april/may and just now am beginning to see the real benefits of it.
 
LuckyBoy said:
give it time. the new cells need time to grow. i ran it in april/may and just now am beginning to see the real benefits of it.
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my point is that I truly don't think it is anabolic, and none of the literature suggests it would be either. Any gains in strength would be from hyperplasia and more cells, not more efficient cell function or larger cells.

I think the best combination would be 40mg ed for 25 days (or possibly 20mg ed for 50 days . . . interested in trying this) plus a non-aromatizing steroid like trenbolone/parabolan, winstrol, turanabol, or anavar - you would get incredible body recomposition effects.

This way the anabolic compounds can accelerate the maturation of the newly formed cells and give them a predisposition to become muscle cells.
 
SecretOfSteel said:
my point is that I truly don't think it is anabolic, and none of the literature suggests it would be either. Any gains in strength would be from hyperplasia and more cells, not more efficient cell function or larger cells.

I think the best combination would be 40mg ed for 25 days (or possibly 20mg ed for 50 days . . . interested in trying this) plus a non-aromatizing steroid like trenbolone/parabolan, winstrol, turanabol, or anavar - you would get incredible body recomposition effects.

This way the anabolic compounds can accelerate the maturation of the newly formed cells and give them a predisposition to become muscle cells.
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oh, ok. then i agree completely! i thought you were saying since you didnt receive anything besides pumps and looked better on that it didnt do anything for you. i wouldve liked to have been on while, well, on but i was one of the first ones to try oratropin out and wanted to see the effects of it by itself, if it was worth the $. next time i will definitely be running something along side to speedc up the process.
 
I know this may be a touchy subject comparing sponsors, but do we have anybody who has used equal doses of Oratropin-1 and Muscle Research's injectable IGF-1?
 
SecretOfSteel said:
I know this may be a touchy subject comparing sponsors, but do we have anybody who has used equal doses of Oratropin-1 and Muscle Research's injectable IGF-1?
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something I have been quite curious of myself...hell, I was thinking of using one front end and one back end into pct
 
I am on day 19 of the OT and my pumps have been great. My muscles are much fuller and I have only taken the 40mcg per day. My appetite has been excellent. I will run another cycle in about 2 months and I plan on staying at 40mcg. Anybody who is injecting this stuff at 100-200mcg per day is really taking some serious risks...,and for what..., a bigger calve. 40mcg per day seems to be where the MD's and sports scientists feel IGF is safe and effective. I am going with the research from educated qualified people..., and not the Bubbas who live in a mobile home and who could care less about tomorrow. Be as safe as possible and live a long healthy life.
 
Hello IBE!!

Hello IBE! I am done with my first round of Oratropin and I am totally impressed. I plan on competing in the Mr Georgia and Mr Florida in 2006 and I feel your product will make a tremendous difference in my physique . I plan on running AAS and Oratropin at the same time in about a month. Cant wait! I plan on starting a thread for that cycle as well. My goal is to try and save enough money for 2 boxes..., but it is going to be very difficult to pay for this plus school..., but I will find a way to work it out (hopefully). Thanks for a great product and I have already told many of my friends that this is the best product ever! Thank you.
 
IBE said:
nothing will go to your stomach it will stick to your mouth only. you know how you can tell if the oratropin is being absorbed fast and crossing the BBB? this might sound funny but trust me you will see. try drinking a glass of wine before bed and right when you lay down take a dose of the oratropin it will knock you out and fast as if you took a sleeping pill. and no it is not the wine doing this it is the IGF stimulating something in the CNS. the injectable will not to this. remember the IGF receptors are located in the brain. also oratropin is being absorbed closes to the brain then the injectable so that should tell you something....just a thought
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Thanks, IBE. That's the kind of stuff I'm interested in learning, 'cause I'm not a scientist nor am I particularly knowledgable about any of these mechanisms. I can say for sure, however (as previously stated) that OT appears to be proven effective, and certainly is revolutionary in terms of effective oral absorbtion. I have found Hexatropin to be an excellent supp as well. So all I can say is keep this stuff coming!
 
I'm not entirely sure how the IGF could cross the blood brain barrier when only molecules with a molecular weight under 500 daltons can cross the blood brain barrier (Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed), and LR3 IGF-I has a molecular weight of approximately 9110 daltons (Invalid Link Removed).
 
jrkarp said:
I'm not entirely sure how the IGF could cross the blood brain barrier

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here's a few more stating it does, epecially regarding intranasal or mucosal/buccal mucosal:
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Here's a good one suggesting the mechanism involves receptor mediated endocytosis from blood to brain (across the BBB):
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You need to read that one a bit better.

CONCLUSION: While IGF-I does not cross the BBB efficiently, it can be delivered to the brain directly from the nasal cavity following IN administration, bypassing the BBB.

Bypassing the BBB is not the same thing as crossing it.

Also, it says nothing about buccal administration.
 
OT is cell-mediated, not normal oral administration, and its means of propagation / dissemination throughout the organism is completely different from what you will get out of oral, nasal or injected. IOW it may very well bypass the BBB even though it is "orally" administered.
 
IBE we have a good question here. Maybe you can help?

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It would be very appreciated.
 
IBE you should have an oratropin sale soon or a discount of some sort, i want this stuff sooo bad but my budget isn't allowing it right now
 
IBE said:
it also says that GHRP-6 does not cross the BBB either but with our technology it does because if it did cross the BBB then we would not see results with hexatropin...enough said
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Not really. Your technology might allow it to bypass it (I'm not sure, because we don't really know how it works). Bypassing and crossing are two completely different things.
 
IBE said:
remember the IGF receptors are located in the brain. also oratropin is being absorbed closes to the brain then the injectable so that should tell you something....just a thought
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First off, there are IGF receptors in many places in the body besides the brain. Actually, IGF receptors have been identified in all nearly all tissues besides the liver.

Secondly, things that are injected act systematically. The drug travels through the blood stream.
 
IBE said:
Insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1 and IGF-2, may be important regulatory molecules in the CNS. Possible origins of IGFs in brain include either de novo synthesis or transport of circulating IGFs from blood into brain via receptor mediated transcytosis mechanisms at the brain capillary endothelial wall, ie, the blood-brain barrier (BBB)...

enough said again..LOL
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Well, not really, since the part in red bold indicates that they aren't sure if the IGF is synthesized in the brain or if it crosses the BBB.
 
IBE said:
well your dream will come through in 1-2 weeks we will have a sale on all the tropin products
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For the record, I'm probably going to buy some to try out. I'm a little skeptical, but enough people are reporting results that I think it might be worth a try. My statements in this thread do not indicate that I don't think that Oratropin works; I just don't like seeing seriously flawed science being disseminated to people.
 
IBE said:
well here you go...that is right they are not sure so your not sure either and probabaly no one is sure. so why try to say you are.
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Well, basically then, neither of us is sure. I'm ok with that. But earlier you said it did cross the BBB.
 
IBE said:
yes maybe without a carrier but ours has a carrier. if you knew what kind of carrier then you would see my point and how it would get through the BBB.. these kind of carriers are very slick and sneaky so you better watch out they can get through any part of your body...(HINT)
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That may be true. We still don't know how the cell-mediated technology works, but if it works as you say it does, great. Even then, most of the effects that we want from IGF come from its action on muscle cells, not the brain, so the BBB argument is more or less academic anyway.
 
IBE said:
well your dream will come true in 1-2 weeks we will have a sale on all the tropin products
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I've been waiting a long time for this one!!!:woohoo:
 
WOOOOOOHOOOOOO TROPIN SALE! TROPIN SALE! HELL YEA!

If the discount is good enough I might have to just buy 4 kits instead of 2.
yummm my mouth is watering at the thought.
 
So with the talk about people pinning 20 mcg as an effective dose, and since OT is 40 mcg to the pre-measured syringe, would you just squirt half of it if you went with OT? Or do you have to do the whole 40mcg at once if you go the OT route? Assuming two 15 day cycles, it's a 600 mcg difference (the cost of one OT kit) over the 30 days. Anyone have an opinion on this from experience either way?
 
what about using one oral syringe ED with an extra one EOD if the dose on your first cycle is found to be too low? would this work out alright?
 
Hot diggety :jaw: . IBE, how long will this sale last hopefully till Dec. 16 when i get paid. plz let it last till then. I need oratropin-1 for my pct in February 06.
 
I held a dose of Oratropin under my tongue for several minutes the other night. It did seem to have some impact on the brain..that can best be summed up as a mildly relaxing feeling. What that means.. I dunno, just an observation.
 
welp I ordered 30 servings . . . but they didn't give me their advertised $100 /15Holiday price - they charged me full price of $130/15 - I got in touch but they haven't fixed the problem yet and refunded my $60 - I'll let you guys know if they do.
 
With alcohol, perhaps it is exerting an insulin-like effect by shuttling the ethanol more quickly into the brain?

I'll officially start my Oratropin cycle in a few weeks and report the observations. I just took a couple doses to help heal an injury..which it did very quickly :woohoo:

I may also toy with the dosing to see if EOD will be effective. IMO, I think it will be as I can see/feel the pump from just one dose for a couple of days afterward..albeit smaller than daily IGF injections. If this is the case, I'll use one kit prior to my 4AD/19 Nor/1 Test cycle and one kit during PCT. In this way, I can potentially maximize the satellite cell growth and maturity along with having the PCT benefits.
 
IBE said:
I seem to be right along about our oratropin getting into the CNS it looks to be either bypassing the BBB or go passing through the BBB check this acticle

Intranasal delivery provides a practical, noninvasive method of bypassing the blood-brain barrier (BBB) to deliver therapeutic agents to the brain and spinal cord. This method allows drugs that do not cross the blood-brain barrier to be rapidly delivered to the central nervous system (CNS). It also directly targets drugs that do cross the blood-brain barrier to the CNS, eliminating the need for systemic delivery and thereby reducing unwanted systemic side effects. This method works because of the unique connection that the olfactory and trigeminal nerves, involved in sensing odors and chemicals, provide between the brain and external environment. Intranasal delivery does not require any modification of therapeutic agents and does not require that drugs be coupled to any carrier. A wide variety of therapeutic agents, including both small molecules and macromolecules can be rapidly delivered to the CNS using this intranasal method.

INTRODUCTION
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IBE, this article has nothing to do with your technology whatsoever. Read the sentence I have in red. It deals with delivery via nerves that exist in the nose, not the mouth or throat.
 
IBE said:
here is another artical saying IGF can be delieverd to the brain passing the BBB


A number of protein therapeutic agents have been successfully delivered to the CNS using intranasal delivery in a variety of species. Neurotrophic factors, such as NGF,5-7 IGF-I,8 FGF13 (aFGF and bFGF), and ADNF12 (including ADNF-9 and NAP) have been intranasally delivered to the CNS in rodents as has a VIP analog.11 CNS concentrations of intranasally delivered NGF (26,500 daltons) varied from about 0.1 to 4.0 nM.5-7 Studies in humans with proteins, such as AVP,19 a CCK analog,20 MSH/ACTH,21,22 and insulin16 have concluded that they are also delivered directly to the brain from the nasal cavity along the olfactory neural pathway. Thorne and Frey have recently reviewed intranasal delivery of neurotrophic factors and other proteins to the CNS.1
Delivery of protein therapeutic agents to the CNS clearly involves extraneuronal transport as it occurs within minutes rather than hours.1, 4-8 While a number of protein therapeutic agents have been found in CNS tissues following intranasal administration, significant amounts of proteins with molecular weights above about 10 kDa have not been reported as yet in the CSF.1,8 Thus, there may be a size barrier to CSF entry following intranasal administration.
Studies in rodents have examined the effects of intranasally administered CNS therapeutic agents. The therapeutic benefit of intranasal delivery of proteins has been demonstrated by Liu et al. in stroke studies. Liu et al.9, 10 have shown that intranasal IGF-I reduces infarct volume and improves neurologic function in rats with middle cerebral artery occlusion (MCAO). A preliminary report indicates that intranasal treatment is effective even when delayed for 4 hours after the onset of MCAO.37 Kucheryanu et al.13 have demonstrated that intranasal bFGF in an MPTP-induced mouse model of Parkinson’s disease suppressed rigidity and increased motor activity. They also reported that intranasal aFGF reduced tremors and increased striatal dopamine, DOPAC, and HVA in the animals.13 Gozes et al.11 have shown that intranasal administration of a VIP analog (28 amino acids) prevented learning and memory impairments resulting from cholinergic blockade in rats treated with aziridium. Gozes et al.12 also demonstrated that a nine amino acid fragment of ADNF (ADNF-9) and an ANDF-like peptide (NAP) also protected against short-term memory loss in this same animal model.
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Once again, this study deals with transmission from the nose to the brain. It has nothing to do with your technology, unless you are developing a nasal spray. You need to read the articles carefully before you post them.

EDIT: Yes, IGF can bypass the BBB. However, there is no connection between this method of bypassing the BBB and your technology.
 
IBE said:
our technology is way better than nasal delievery and goes strait to the brain. you are forgetting that the nose and mouth are connected and have the same passage. how do you think a virus gets in to your body. through the nose and mouth. untill you know how our technology works I would not say anything
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You have got to be kidding.

First, while the nose and mouth are connected by the same passage, the nerves involved in the transmission that you posted are in the nose only. The substance you are trying to administer has to come in contact with the nasal passages and then goes to the olfactory and trigeminal nerves.

Second, yes, most viruses are inhaled through the nose and mouth. From there they go into the lungs and from the lungs go into the bloodstream, or they cause local infections in the respiratory tract. In any case, they are NOT absorbed through the mouth in the same way as your product.

Finally, you have been caught passing completely bogus and baseless claims in this thread. Don't try to cover that up by talking about how I don't understand your technology. The claims you have been making are insulting to my intelligence and to the intelligence of the other members here.
 
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IBE said:
one more thing is that insulin when injected will not bross the BBB but with our technology it does and there is researching backing that up. so the same goes for IGF since they are almost the same and bind to the same receptors
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IGF's molecular weight is about 50% larger than that of Insulin, so I would hardly say that they are almost the same.
 
Oratropin has been working though, correct? Just as well as inj? This seems to be a big issue. I have a thread on igf-1 dosing, and there is really NO opinion as far as I can tell... I want to order something, but would like some experienced ppl to input on it before I lay out the $$$...
 
It appears to be working. I haven't tried it, but there is a lot of positive feedback. IBE offered me a kit to try, I accepted, and offered to report my results. I haven't heard back from him about it, however.

My point in this thread is not to question the efficacy of his product. I hope it does work.
 
jrkarp said:
IBE, this article has nothing to do with your technology whatsoever. Read the sentence I have in red. It deals with delivery via nerves that exist in the nose, not the mouth or throat.
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Delivering a peptide drug intranasaly would require receptor mediated endo/transcytosis which nerves are receptor mediated. Also, the nose and mouth are all part of the buccal mucosa.
 
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