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One of the Reasons Great Supplements are Banned and or Discontinued

What is the likleyhood of not getting gyno when abusing steroids?

I don't know much about steroids but I know 2 guys who go on regular cycles and don't appear to know much about PCT at all. I asked them about Nolva and Clomid but neither of had even heard of them.

Are just lucky they havn't got gyno?
I know they would atleast be ****ing up their body in other ways.
 
Kavinsky said:
What is the likleyhood of not getting gyno when abusing steroids?

I don't know much about steroids but I know 2 guys who go on regular cycles and don't appear to know much about PCT at all. I asked them about Nolva and Clomid but neither of had even heard of them.

Are just lucky they havn't got gyno?
I know they would atleast be ****ing up their body in other ways.
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They may need a lifetime supply of Levitra, Prozac, and also HRT for life. But other than that they should be fine.
 
DreamWeaver said:
I remember when whey first came out. It was the biggest thing to hit the market to that point. Designer protein was one of the first if not the first. You should have seen the crap we used to have to try to digest. Used to stick like cement to the blades of the blender. My stomach cringes just thinking about it.
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joe weider products come to mind. haha, remember some shiit called hot stuff, i actually seen some at vitamin shoppe. legal bb supps have come a long way. damn, i almost forgot pre-digested liquid protein, yuck, yuck, yuck.
 
lol...dont knock that hot stuff, not the original anyways...they actuallly had to strip it from the market, haha.


But, I think that if supps didn't get discontinued then there would be VERY LITTLE PROGRESS in the ph area. Just face facts, who would want to only know that SD or PP exist?

I do not LIKE the fact of how things work, but I do enjoy the fact of knowing that newer, cleaner, better, supps always come out...it's like natural selection in reverse. If m1t never died, we'd still be sitting in phase 1...that would surely suck.

Now look what we have? Prime coming out, 3-ad, anadraulic state, mmv2, jungle warfare(did i type that??), but you guys get my point.

supps do not ONLY get discontinued because of idiots using them, they also get the boot because better supps come out...

As far as the kids that use and have no idea, there should be this disclaimer on the bottle..

"if you have not EVER taken a supp that can make you bigger, stronger, faster, etc, etc, and if you have NEVER read up on this XXX or researched it, or talked to someone with common sense to help you research it, then put this 'ish down and carry your ass to the weight room, eat, sleep, and grow your nuts out first"
 
hardknock said:
lol...dont knock that hot stuff, not the original anyways...they actuallly had to strip it from the market, haha.


But, I think that if supps didn't get discontinued then there would be VERY LITTLE PROGRESS in the ph area. Just face facts, who would want to only know that SD or PP exist?

I do not LIKE the fact of how things work, but I do enjoy the fact of knowing that newer, cleaner, better, supps always come out...it's like natural selection in reverse. If m1t never died, we'd still be sitting in phase 1...that would surely suck.

Now look what we have? Prime coming out, 3-ad, anadraulic state, mmv2, jungle warfare(did i type that??), but you guys get my point.

supps do not ONLY get discontinued because of idiots using them, they also get the boot because better supps come out...

As far as the kids that use and have no idea, there should be this disclaimer on the bottle..

"if you have not EVER taken a supp that can make you bigger, stronger, faster, etc, etc, and if you have NEVER read up on this XXX or researched it, or talked to someone with common sense to help you research it, then put this 'ish down and carry your ass to the weight room, eat, sleep, and grow your nuts out first"
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And get to your full natural potential first...:clap2:
 
hardknock said:
lol...dont knock that hot stuff, not the original anyways...they actuallly had to strip it from the market, haha.


But, I think that if supps didn't get discontinued then there would be VERY LITTLE PROGRESS in the ph area. Just face facts, who would want to only know that SD or PP exist?

I do not LIKE the fact of how things work, but I do enjoy the fact of knowing that newer, cleaner, better, supps always come out...it's like natural selection in reverse. If m1t never died, we'd still be sitting in phase 1...that would surely suck.

Now look what we have? Prime coming out, 3-ad, anadraulic state, mmv2, jungle warfare(did i type that??), but you guys get my point.

supps do not ONLY get discontinued because of idiots using them, they also get the boot because better supps come out...

As far as the kids that use and have no idea, there should be this disclaimer on the bottle..

"if you have not EVER taken a supp that can make you bigger, stronger, faster, etc, etc, and if you have NEVER read up on this XXX or researched it, or talked to someone with common sense to help you research it, then put this 'ish down and carry your ass to the weight room, eat, sleep, and grow your nuts out first"
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But, companies are not looking for safer alternatives, they are looking for compounds that will fly under the radar that they find in a text that is 40 years old (Vida). Safety is not what is driving this process, it is legality or at least the appearance of it.
If you think PP and others are getting removed from the market because of safety i have a bridge to sell you.
 
there are a lot of good supplements on the market today that work very well. AX discontinued it's whole line of designers, so did gaspari, but you can still find them in generic versions. 20 years ago legal supplements that worked were very, very limited. my only concern is that competition is driving many companies to do things they know are not the right thing to do. this is an unregulated industry, in order for it to stay that way the big companies need to make a stand against the bad actions that are occuring. more complete and accurate labeling would be a good place to start.
 
thebigt said:
joe weider products come to mind. haha, remember some shiit called hot stuff, i actually seen some at vitamin shoppe. legal bb supps have come a long way. damn, i almost forgot pre-digested liquid protein, yuck, yuck, yuck.
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Weider the original sheister in this market. Even amongst a miriad of crap weider stood on it's own as the worst bullshit crap that ever came on the market. And don't get me started on Hot Stuff they used that fatass strongman as their modo, yah genius everybody can't wait to look like that.
 
thebigt said:
there are a lot of good supplements on the market today that work very well. AX discontinued it's whole line of designers, so did gaspari, but you can still find them in generic versions. 20 years ago legal supplements that worked were very, very limited. my only concern is that competition is driving many companies to do things they know are not the right thing to do. this is an unregulated industry, in order for it to stay that way the big companies need to make a stand against the bad actions that are occuring. more complete and accurate labeling would be a good place to start.
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This is true. When the OP talked about products being removed from the market he was referring to PH's.
 
sethroberts said:
This is true. When the OP talked about products being removed from the market he was referring to PH's.
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my point is they come back in updated versions. sd,pp, and halodrol were discontinued long ago, but you can still buy the chemical equivalent. patrick arnold is said to be ressurecting 1ad. old ph's just fade away, they never die.
 
thebigt said:
my point is they come back in updated versions. sd,pp, and halodrol were discontinued long ago, but you can still buy the chemical equivalent. patrick arnold is said to be ressurecting 1ad. old ph's just fade away, they never die.
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I applaud those companies that have chosen to take a hit in sales rather than sell products that are risky from an safety and legal perspective. This recent move by the DEA should wake some companies up, but I doubt it will.
 
sethroberts said:
But, companies are not looking for safer alternatives, they are looking for compounds that will fly under the radar that they find in a text that is 40 years old (Vida). Safety is not what is driving this process, it is legality or at least the appearance of it.
If you think PP and others are getting removed from the market because of safety i have a bridge to sell you.
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I can only agree partially...the new phs that came out, compared to m1t, were extremely mild from my own perspective. you're right about reasoning not being for safety, however, safer phs being born because of banning, has been the results. I mean why try and jump over a moving car when u can just side step it?
 
sethroberts said:
I applaud those companies that have chosen to take a hit in sales rather than sell products that are risky from an safety and legal perspective. This recent move by the DEA should wake some companies up, but I doubt it will.
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in the 60's LSD was made in bathtubs, today it is meth. if there is a demand, there will always be a supply. even on this board there are enough chem majors to be able to change a chemical enough to slip detection by fda and still be effective. what the fda is doing is taking somewhat safe chemicals, and causing them to be altered into something that is unproven. as usual government good intentions always seem to backfire. as long as there is enough money to be made on performance enhancers they will be available in one form or another.
 
Conagher said:
Very true.Most of the supplement companies in body building rely on the naivete or the outright apathy on the individual consumers part to make the majority of their money.
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it is naivete and apathy they are counting on. btw does anyone else find it odd that muscletech and bsn choose not to have representation on any forum that i know of.
 
Rodja said:
I want to feel sympathy for these people, but everyone is responsible for their own actions. If they choose to use a product without researching it, then they run the risk of having some negative sides from it.
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You are correct.Thus,the individuals who own the companies
which put potentially harmful ingredients in their products for the sake of making a dollar,are also responsible for their actions.It goes both ways.
Personally,I research everything I knowingly put in my body,whether it be a prescribed medication from my doctor or
a supplement that I choose to take.
Unfortunately,the majority of people lack the concern or are just to trusting to do the same.
I do not necessarily consider these people stupid,just naive.
 
thebigt said:
it is naivete and apathy they are counting on. btw does anyone else find it odd that muscletech and bsn choose not to have representation on any forum that i know of.
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With their ads and pro bb'rs who claim to use their supps they don't need to.They get plenty of buyers from their ads in mags.I have seen people who aren't serious about training using MT or BSN.
 
pantera101 said:
With their ads and pro bb'rs who claim to use their supps they don't need to.They get plenty of buyers from their ads in mags.I have seen people who aren't serious about training using MT or BSN.
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it's not that they have to. i just feel they are fearful of being exposed. lots of people on this forum would tear em a new one.
 
thebigt said:
it's not that they have to. i just feel they are fearful of being exposed. lots of people on this forum would tear em a new one.
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Oh yah they want to stay away from knowledgable people, there marketing is aimed at the ignorant.
 
thebigt said:
it's not that they have to. i just feel they are fearful of being exposed. lots of people on this forum would tear em a new one.
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Definately,and I see what you mean.I'm just saying their ads and then "boys" telling their "boyfriends" about what they read and seeing the endless supply in supplement stores with high prices that tell you they must work get them plenty of sales.I'm sure they don't sit around thinking of how they can sell more supps by making people happy on forums.They just hype the sh!t out of 'em and newbies will buy.Think of all the peole who start lifting for a month or two.Those are the people they're after.Not experienced knowledgeable dedicated people.People who have no clue about working out,diet,or supps.Know what I mean?
 
thebigt said:
it's not that they have to. i just feel they are fearful of being exposed. lots of people on this forum would tear em a new one.
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Eh.. I dunno.. Some may, but.... I have sat here for years and watched companies get shitted on. The company then comes here, hands out a few rep spots, passes out some free ****, and then the same people talk about how great their products are..
 
imprezivr6 said:
Eh.. I dunno.. Some many, but.... I have sat here for years and watched companies get shitted on. The company then comes here, hands out a few rep spots, passes out some free ****, and then the same people talk about how great their products are..
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I think MT and BSN are slightly different.Lets just say the prices that pay for their overhyped/lying ads for a supp thats no better than the next.
 
imprezivr6 said:
Maybey so... But you may be underestimating the power "free stuff" has on people..lol
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Yeah thats true if you give some people some free stuff to log for ya they'll already be happy for getting free supps.I have tried MT and BSN supps.Absolutley nothing special with MT.Nitro tech is nasty and it's just protien,same way with cell tech which has way too much sugar.Then gakic,leukic, and creakic.Again nothing special whatsoever.Then from BSN their true mass and syntha 6 is good and I would use it if I was rich and money didn't matter.NO Xplode was allright,but again not good enough to justify the price and the affects seemed to wear off quickly............Lets just keep this conversation between us.............I was young and dumb in search of the magic pill/powder.


Oh yeah,nice pit!
 
imprezivr6 said:
Maybey so... But you may be underestimating the power "free stuff" has on people..lol
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free stuff or not, i would hate to be in the position of having to defend the price and effect of their products over products that work as well or better at a third of the price. i really feel that position would be untenable on an intelligent forum like this one.
 
New Ergo 1-AD is the same thing AMS has had out for years, though I hardly think hormones are the staple of the supplement industry or advancements in any way. I always get a good laugh when people mention how Superdrol & Pheraplex, etc were 'great ideas' & 'innovative'. But when you buy bulk powders from China, cap the powder, then repackage & sell it - it's profitable for business. But it's hardly innovative.

If a company is looking for long term success that lies within their 'standard' product line. Plus with the new FDA regulations set to take effect by the 2nd quarter of 2009, you can be assured all the PH/PS's will nothing but a memory by that time anyhow.
 
i have seen plenty of idiots. i worked at vitamin shoppe up until last week. kids come in all the time asking for this stuff.
 
TexasLifter89 said:
i have seen plenty of idiots. i worked at vitamin shoppe up until last week. kids come in all the time asking for this stuff.
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haha, i have been banned from several gnc's for telling those kids how much cheaper nutra planet is. a bottle of tribex was over $50, i told them about get diesel.:woohoo:
 
yeah dude i got in trouble from work because i would tell people to buy it online cuz it was cheaper and my boss got mad and said i was ruining their bonus
 
TexasLifter89 said:
yeah dude i got in trouble from work because i would tell people to buy it online cuz it was cheaper and my boss got mad and said i was ruining their bonus
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mad, hell. i would fire you on the spot. haha good for you kid, good for you:toofunny:
 
TexasLifter89 said:
yeah dude i got in trouble from work because i would tell people to buy it online cuz it was cheaper and my boss got mad and said i was ruining their bonus
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you have integrity and was working in the whole business my friend, full credit for not being a sucka$s!
 
b unit said:
you have integrity and was working in the whole business my friend, full credit for not being a sucka$s!
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that's some high praise coming from b-unit. he's one serious mofo.
 
thebigt said:
haha, i have been banned from several gnc's for telling those kids how much cheaper nutra planet is. a bottle of tribex was over $50, i told them about get diesel.:woohoo:
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i never got banned but i had been ask to leave kuz i was argung with the sales clerk. I went there to buy protien and sumhow we got into a argument about how i said MT suck and it just escalated from there. lol but it was funny when i mention like control labs or IBE and he had no idea what i was talking about.
 
mindgame said:
i never got banned but i had been ask to leave kuz i was argung with the sales clerk. I went there to buy protien and sumhow we got into a argument about how i said MT suck and it just escalated from there. lol but it was funny when i mention like control labs or IBE and he had no idea what i was talking about.
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or the difference between di-creatine, tri-creatine, creatine mono, creatine gluconate, and cee and hearing-'theres more than one kind of creatine'. try explaining that activate is an extract of stinging nettle standardized for divaniil and activate extreme is divaniil with a natural aromatse inhibitor called Ic3 which is an extract found in vegetables like brocoli. seriously it's like trying to teach algebra to 1st graders. you can see why i got banned...i never got into an arguement, they didn't know enough to argue with me. it was easier to tell me to leave, very politely i might add.
 
TexasLifter89 said:
yeah dude i got in trouble from work because i would tell people to buy it online cuz it was cheaper and my boss got mad and said i was ruining their bonus
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I work at V.S. also.
I tell people of products we dont carry but should.
Like Napalm, Posiedon, Epistane....ect...

Then I make requests to higher ups saying "a lot of people have been asking for there products" ;)
 
i request to higher ups and nothing ever happens. i dont get how we cant carry the designers because of DSHEA but nutrition depot and those businesses can
 
TexasLifter89 said:
i request to higher ups and nothing ever happens. i dont get how we cant carry the designers because of DSHEA but nutrition depot and those businesses can
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I dont request for epistane, and ph's. They dont carry them for insurance reasons. Might carry 3-ad though. MIGHT.

I know Nutra's sales of Epi, and cycle support, and PCT have been upped by me walking guys through how to do a PH cycle :dance:
 
sp447 said:
Just last week I opened the cabinet for a guy (looked to be in his late 20's) and looked like he spent too long in the tanning bed asked me for the Methyl-1D out of the cabinet. I asked him if it was any good.

He said "Yeah I've been taking it for about a 6 months now"

I said "Non Stop"

He's like "......Yeah" "It's great Stuff"

now when he finally decides to stop taking it or realizes he made a mistake, he'll probably come back to us or call LG Customer Service and complain when he can't get off or have kids.
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i work for a supplement shop as well...and thats when you step in and tell them they are retarded. not calling you out but part of the problem is the people selling the stuff. us who work at these places are 'street pharmacists' and if you really cared about what you do you'd warn them and tell them to research the stuff...i send people to AM all the time now!
 
raginfcktard said:
i work for a supplement shop as well...and thats when you step in and tell them they are retarded. not calling you out but part of the problem is the people selling the stuff. us who work at these places are 'street pharmacists' and if you really cared about what you do you'd warn them and tell them to research the stuff...i send people to AM all the time now!
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Not sure if your barking up the right tree here, chief.

I tell people exactly what they are getting themselves into, and how to do it correctly if they want to do it.
Hell, guys ask me about this stuff fairly often.

I've saved many a person from effing themselves up.
There was 1 guy, who had taken what he thought was a "test booster," that really was methylated ph's. After I gave him the full disclosure on what he had, he looked visibly shaken.

Now, i know of local shops selling ph's that dont tell people about cycle support, or PCT. A 19 year old guy i was working with, bought exactly that. I was pretty livid at the shop owner over it. Lets just say, he doenst want to see me in his store anytime soon again.:aargh:
 
Gtarzan81 said:
I dont request for epistane, and ph's. They dont carry them for insurance reasons. Might carry 3-ad though. MIGHT.

I know Nutra's sales of Epi, and cycle support, and PCT have been upped by me walking guys through how to do a PH cycle :dance:
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Why might they carry 3-AD but not Epi, when 3-AD's main active is a steroid as powerful as Epi? Just curious.
 
Gtarzan81 said:
Not sure if your barking up the right tree here, chief.

I tell people exactly what they are getting themselves into, and how to do it correctly if they want to do it.
Hell, guys ask me about this stuff fairly often.

I've saved many a person from effing themselves up.
There was 1 guy, who had taken what he thought was a "test booster," that really was methylated ph's. After I gave him the full disclosure on what he had, he looked visibly shaken.

Now, i know of local shops selling ph's that dont tell people about cycle support, or PCT. A 19 year old guy i was working with, bought exactly that. I was pretty livid at the shop owner over it. Lets just say, he doenst want to see me in his store anytime soon again.:aargh:
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haha, the am goon squad. sign me up.:hammer:
 
Ziquor said:
Why might they carry 3-AD but not Epi, when 3-AD's main active is a steroid as powerful as Epi? Just curious.
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It's being considered, is the information I have. In the end, will they? Likely not. But one can hope :)


(More Insider Information Follows):
Anabolic Innovation's stuff is also being considered. Please go into your local V.S. and ask for them to carry it, please ;)
 
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