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OL Ostar1ne Log/Notes (includes PCT)

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michael1851 said:
Ok 6 weeks at 20mg? 5 weeks 20mg 1 week 15mg? Followed by 4 weeks of SUP3R. Looking for a little extra lean muscle.
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6 at 20 will do more but just be prepared to experience some low t sides during pct.
 
michael1851 said:
Ok 6 weeks at 20mg? 5 weeks 20mg 1 week 15mg? Followed by 4 weeks of SUP3R. Looking for a little extra lean muscle.
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booneman77 said:
6 at 20 will do more but just be prepared to experience some low t sides during pct.
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Agreed.

Since you're deployed, I'd run some natural supps and keep ostarine for when you're stateside.

Follidrone/Ep1c + ArA + Phosphatidic Acid + Anabeta Elite should be a nice stack that you can run at 8 weeks with no PCT req'd. Throw in a good GDA like recompadrol and you're in gainzville.

It won't be like you're on a PH or a SARM, but it's pretty damn good.
 
Thanks for the info. I've hear some experience more suppression than others. Also heard some can recover naturally from ostarine though it may take a while. I'm going to keep the dose as low as I can and run the SUP3R after. I've read a lot of mixed opinions on how suppressive it may be and recovery time. I think my cycle nd recovery should be decent based of previous cycles of harsher cycles.
 
The Engineer said:
Agreed.

Since you're deployed, I'd run some natural supps and keep ostarine for when you're stateside.

Follidrone/Ep1c + ArA + Phosphatidic Acid + Anabeta Elite should be a nice stack that you can run at 8 weeks with no PCT req'd. Throw in a good GDA like recompadrol and you're in gainzville.

It won't be like you're on a PH or a SARM, but it's pretty damn good.
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not to pimp my own product but if you want size gains, Magnitropin and anything added would be great. I'm running Mag + ArA and i'm up to 7.5 lbs since starting sept 30th. adding Anabeta Elite now... size gains for daysssss
 
I'll look into it for down the road. Thanks again. I have to get this cycle nailed down in the next week for now. Trying to make sure I have everything I need before I start the ostarine.
 
michael, I have been on Osta now for 4 weeks @ 20mg and am just now really feeling it kick in strength wise. I'd definitely run it for at least 6wks, if not 8.

I'd also throw in some DAA in addition to the SUP3R PCT.
 
Supplementation Update
I've ceased supplementation of Forskolin 3 days ago.
I've also changed my PCT to include aromasin and removing OG Anabeta Elite. I had originally bought a few bottles during some christmas sales last year.
To those unaware, the original ABE had 5-AD. 5-AD is a PH and although most users reported positive benefits from the original formulation, this isn't something I want in my PCT.

New PCT:
Torem: 90/60/30/0
Aromasin 25/12.5/12.5/6
DAA: 6/6/3/3
ArA + Soy Lecithin (for the PA content + as an emulsifier for PA)
 
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AD, may appear under the nomenclature 5-androsten-3b, 17b-diol. 5 AD occurs naturally in the body as a metabolite of DHEA.
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With an anabolic to androgenic ratio of 10/20, 5 AD is not very anabolically active. It actually has an androgen receptor binding affinity that is even lower than estradiol. 5 AD also has a moderate rate of conversion to estrogen and it may even directly stimulate the estrogen receptor. Users of 5 AD experienced little in the way of actual gains but estrogen related side effects such as gynecomastia were common. Due to its lack of effectiveness and estrogenic side effects, 5 AD lost popularity rapidly. At this point all manufacturers of 5 AD products have discontinued sales of this prohormone.
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5-Androstenediol (androst-5-ene-3β,17β-diol or 5-AED) is one of two androstenediols, the other being 4-androstenediol.
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Erm... I gotta let them know in the PES section...

I bought these from some canadian site last year. It was a buy 2 for 50-60$ deal so I bought 4. I think I've run a bottle already in the past...
 
ABE isn't a PH lol... There's a few products that use 5-androst ... It's a metabolite of dhea

Helps control cortisol
 
Yeah I was just doing a bit of reading on it as I thought something was off. That's what I found as well.. Good to know.
 
Day 27

25mg Ostarine
Depletion workout this morning.
Managed to get about 60% through before saying eff it. I was just tired and even 500mg of caffeine couldn't get me going. Also dosed 1.2 grams of Niacin with 4 caps KNO3 + 2 caps Dopadex. Supposedly dopa increases GH output during a workout.
9mg Albuterol post workout to take advantage of the FFA rush from Niacin. In theory, dosing albuterol post workout with this protocol will aid in the utilization of these FFA for energy.
After my shower I applied half a pump of transFORM for increasing in removal of any bloat/water weight.
Going to half-maintenance today -PSMF-style. >30 grams fat, 0 carbs, 180-200 grams protein.

These next few days are going to suck big time. I already feel myself crashing from no carbs. I think next time I'm going to taper the carbs going into depletion rather than go cold turkey.

Weight: 171.4
 
Late but in will be back to catch up!
 
Hey buddy, I have been following you, not only in this log, but also on other posts, and you provide very nice info…so I want to ask you, if dropping from 15% to 10% keeping most of muscle tissue is possible during an 8 week ostarine cycle at 25mg…obviously if everything is in check and only at 250-350 cals under maintenance …thanks!
 
1kerry said:
Hey buddy, I have been following you, not only in this log, but also on other posts, and you provide very nice info…so I want to ask you, if dropping from 15% to 10% keeping most of muscle tissue is possible during an 8 week ostarine cycle at 25mg…obviously if everything is in check and only at 250-350 cals under maintenance …thanks!
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Thanks, man!

A few things to consider:

Have you ever dialed down to 10%?

What are your stats/training history?

I went from 13.8 to 7.8 over an 8 week period of the summer utilizing lyle mcdonald's ud2, so it is possible. But at 250-350 below maintenance I don't think you're going to get there in 8 weeks. UD2 requires half-maintenance calories or 1200 calories for 3.5 days. This is essentially what I'm doing now as part of my lean gain phase only it's 10.5 days of anabolism + 3.5 days of catabolism. But at 350 below maintenance with a strength-based program and some LISS+yhcl to get rid of stubborn body fat I can see you getting to 12, maybe 11. If you do UD2, then hell yeah! You can even get down to 8-9 with ostarine. The ostarine will allow you to go down to really low calories while retaining muscle, I'm talking 1000-1200 (this is essentially what I hit 2 weekends ago, and this is what I'm going for this weekend).
 
The Engineer said:
A few things to consider:

Have you ever dialed down to 10%?

What are your stats/training history?

I went from 13.8 to 7.8 over an 8 week period of the summer utilizing lyle mcdonald's ud2, so it is possible. But at 250-350 below maintenance I don't think you're going to get there in 8 weeks. UD2 requires half-maintenance calories or 1200 calories for 3.5 days. This is essentially what I'm doing now as part of my lean gain phase only it's 10.5 days of anabolism + 3.5 days of catabolism. But at 350 below maintenance with a strength-based program and some LISS+yhcl to get rid of stubborn body fat I can see you getting to 12, maybe 11. If you do UD2, then hell yeah! You can even get down to 8-9 with ostarine. The ostarine will allow you to go down to really low calories while retaining muscle, I'm talking 1000-1200 (this is essentially what I hit 2 weekends ago, and this is what I'm going for this weekend).
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thanks for the fast response and advice!

5.5 Years training, and I think the lower has been 11-12% which I achieved with the lean gains approach….

I have read before about UD2…but it happens that I'm a skinnyfat, and I should be extremely cautious while cutting, because I loose muscle very easy =(
 
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this has been the best shape i have achieved, but was after 6 months and droppingaround 42-44 pounds
 
That's no reason to not use UD2 or glycogen depletion protocols. And skinny-fat is what you were before. Not now. Dieting down to single-digit body fat levels takes a certain type of mental toughness.

Also, you won't lose muscle during UD2 or glycogen depletion. That's the point of UD2. When you deplete glycogen, your body must rely on fat.

Lastly, if you lose muscle on a cut, you're simply not giving your body adequate amounts of protein. If you have trouble gauging this, use myfitnesspal and scan your food. When cutting, I make sure I have whole protein sources: turkey, chicken, lean beef and I keep my protein powder consumption to a minimum. If you must use a protein supplement, use casein or milk protein isolate. These do not spike insulin levels (which we do not want while cutting) and the body sees this as actual milk.

So per your question, if you have trouble getting down to sub-digits, deplete glycogen and then carbload or use just UD2 for 8 weeks.

I used to be a fat kid and this is my third time trying to gain muscle. My previous efforts have just left me fat and despondent. UD2 and glycogen-depletion gave me valuable information about my body. Because of it, if I wanted to, I can get down to 7-8 no problem and then beyond that just use other methods of recirculating fat deposits.

I'm sorry if it comes across as harsh, but saying that you're skinny fat or used to be and that you need to watch out is an excuse. There are really no excuses (barring any medical problems) when it comes to your physique goals.
 
Day 28

25mg Ostarine - 8am
Went back to sleep and woke up 11am to complete the depletion workout.
500mg caf + 1.5grams niacin + 4 caps KNO3 + 1 cap EP1C + 2.25grams tyrosine + 2grams ALCAR

Plowed through depletion like the sultry bitch that it is. Felt great to finally finish it.
12mg Albuterol post workout.
I did 12mg as my second dose last night and was super wired. Same effect today. I like 12mg. 9mg makes me feel odd and off. 12mg gives me intense motivation.

Slept 10 hours last night. I was having a blasting headache these past few days and it was probably because I wasn't sleeping enough. That + ostarine and I just had intense brain fog. But now that's cleared. NOTE: you must sleep 8+ hours during an ostarine cycle. There's no way around it and just because it has all the benefits of increased recovery, etc it does not mean that you can skimp on sleep.

Did some reading on Ostarine and prolactin. (this was mainly encouraged by a recent post on the Ostarine questions thread). And from what I've read, at around the 8 week mark is when trouble begins to occur. With that said, I'm only keeping it to 6 weeks. I was contemplating 8 because of how great it feels, but since this my first real hormonal cycle, I don't feel like playing the odds. Maybe next cycle I'll go to 8 and have prami on hand just in case.

No weigh in today. I'm saving that for Monday morning.

Only hit 1040 cals yesterday with 190 grams of protein. Might up the protein today.

I reordered toremifene and exemestane because I just didn't have a good feeling from my original source. After a 45% discount, 60mg/ml at 60ml was 28$ for toremifene and it just seemed off to me, so I got it from one of the board sponsors here.
 
The Engineer said:
That's no reason to not use UD2 or glycogen depletion protocols. And skinny-fat is what you were before. Not now. Dieting down to single-digit body fat levels takes a certain type of mental toughness.

Also, you won't lose muscle during UD2 or glycogen depletion. That's the point of UD2. When you deplete glycogen, your body must rely on fat.

Lastly, if you lose muscle on a cut, you're simply not giving your body adequate amounts of protein. If you have trouble gauging this, use myfitnesspal and scan your food. When cutting, I make sure I have whole protein sources: turkey, chicken, lean beef and I keep my protein powder consumption to a minimum. If you must use a protein supplement, use casein or milk protein isolate. These do not spike insulin levels (which we do not want while cutting) and the body sees this as actual milk.

So per your question, if you have trouble getting down to sub-digits, deplete glycogen and then carbload or use just UD2 for 8 weeks.

I used to be a fat kid and this is my third time trying to gain muscle. My previous efforts have just left me fat and despondent. UD2 and glycogen-depletion gave me valuable information about my body. Because of it, if I wanted to, I can get down to 7-8 no problem and then beyond that just use other methods of recirculating fat deposits.

I'm sorry if it comes across as harsh, but saying that you're skinny fat or used to be and that you need to watch out is an excuse. There are really no excuses (barring any medical problems) when it comes to your physique goals.
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thanks a lot buddy! will study your log and keep an eye on that UD2…any source I can get it btw…

THANKS AGAIN!
 
Day 29

25mg Ostarine
12mg albuterol + 18mg yhcl - 30min LISS cardio
Probably going to go up to 30-36mg of albuterol today.

The one night where we get to sleep more I actually woke up 4 hours after falling asleep and couldn't fall back.
Went to the gym at 7:30. Did some low impact cardio while reading over school notes.
Rant:
Gym was relatively empty this morning.
Upper level is all cardio equipment/isolation machines.
Row of treadmills are lined up to face the window.
Only a few people at each side, so I choose a treadmill with that's 3 spaces away from the last person on the right side of this row. So, visually, there's three spaces open to my right, and about 6 to my left. Now, I'm person that likes their space. I don't have space issues, but I believe that unless they're a family member or someone that you're fondling, there should be a respectable distance between you and them. This is basically the urinal test theory.
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Long story short, this guy comes to the row, sweating balls, and chooses the machine right to my left. RIGHT NEXT TO ME. ARE YOU SERIOUS? THERE ARE 6 OTHER MACHINES. MOVE OVER.
This isn't SARM rage, this is just frustration over the indecency of some people.
Nonetheless, I moved over and looked over my work.
But, seriously?
End rant

Other than that, I still have some headaches, but it's only when I'm not supplying my body with enough water.

Thoughts:
Approaching week 5.
Apart of me wants to extend this to 8 weeks, but I've read reports of some prolactin/estrogen sides occurring at 8 weeks, so we're keeping this short.
PCT ancillaries should be here tomorrow.

PCT Update
Only update here is adding in X-Gels. Only I'm going to begin supplementation this week to begin loading the ArA. That way by the first week of PCT, I should be somewhat saturated. Going to be stacking this with phosphatidic acid as an emulsifier. My only problem is finding a way of taking ArA pre workout with my pre-workout dextrose. For those unaware, ArA does not get deposited into the muscle cells properly in the presence of insulin.
Also, I've been doing some reading on exemistane and instead of stacking toremifene and exemistane, I will begin using exemistane at week 3 of pct for 2 weeks at 25mg ED.

Eyeing my next stack: LGD-4033 + MK677 for 8 weeks. This should be epic. No supplement companies make this so I might have to go research route.

Morning weight: 160
As I said, my weight gain over the previous weeks were probably water, so we'll see how much the PSMF + albuterol rips off.
The YHCL might increase water somewhat, so I'll probably do half a pump to full pump of transFORM today and tomorrow.
 
Swolbraham said:
i've been taking ara 30 mins pre, with a poptart one hour pre and i've seen results similar to last ArA runs
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Hmm, so do you think if I did my dex + protein shake 30-35 min before and then ArA about 10 min before I lift would be alright?
 
yeah i can't see it being an issue. and i also drink 60g HBCD intra. takingit 10-20 mins pre then getting loose will get the blood flowing to the skeletal muscle anyway
 
Swolbraham said:
yeah i can't see it being an issue. and i also drink 60g HBCD intra. takingit 10-20 mins pre then getting loose will get the blood flowing to the skeletal muscle anyway
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Awesome. Will do then.

I might even load at 2 grams for the next two weeks and then pull it back to 1.5. Or just do 1.5 throughout. I'll see how my joints feel haha
 
if dosed right near each other. i space it out

my ara dose is around 1:30, gym at 2, and then blah

before bed, around 10:00-11:00, I have a serving of cissus, 3g fish oil, and call it a night. zero difference between my runs when i cut fish oil out
 
1kerry said:
Yes, but if you take them in the range of 6+hours before or after, then, theres no issues..
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Swolbraham said:
if dosed right near each other. i space it out

my ara dose is around 1:30, gym at 2, and then blah

before bed, around 10:00-11:00, I have a serving of cissus, 3g fish oil, and call it a night. zero difference between my runs when i cut fish oil out
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Awesome. Will do this then!
 
Yeha haha. I didn't wanna discontinue fish oil or joint support really. (Two broken femurs, dislocated knee cap, and tommy john surgery)
 
Haha when j was 12 I got hit by a ca . Broke my femur in three spots, fractured my skull, sure some ribs too I would think (never diagnosed). Then I rebroke it a year later, just slipped and fell and landed awkwardly on my leg which bent the metal rods in there, so another surgery to fix that. Then a year later, rods removed

Kneecap was in baseball, planted and tried to turn, and foot stayed straight, knee went sideways, dr said its a miracle I didn't tear my acl

Tommy john from pitching in college
 
Swolbraham said:
Haha when j was 12 I got hit by a ca . Broke my femur in three spots, fractured my skull, sure some ribs too I would think (never diagnosed). Then I rebroke it a year later, just slipped and fell and landed awkwardly on my leg which bent the metal rods in there, so another surgery to fix that. Then a year later, rods removed

Kneecap was in baseball, planted and tried to turn, and foot stayed straight, knee went sideways, dr said its a miracle I didn't tear my acl

Tommy john from pitching in college
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Does it affect your lifts in any way?
 
Tommy john yea . Can't lockout my right side or else my hand gets numb sometimes, also always stuff. My knee has been better, in fact my right leg is stronger/bigger than the left one

Squatted 285 a couple of weeks ago at 141 lbs so I'm happy lol
 
The Engineer said:
Hmm, so do you think if I did my dex + protein shake 30-35 min before and then ArA about 10 min before I lift would be alright?
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Not going to matter in all practical terms brother. I dose 38 grams of carbs 20 minutes after ArA dose when I was taking it, then had another 38 grams intra. Did not make a lick of difference in terms of ArA effectiveness. Don't get so tied up with the minutiae.

PA isn't an emulsifier by the way, but if you are doing the cheap soy lecithin thing, yeah, the SL as a whole is a good emulsifier for fats, but then again, ArA isn't hard to digest so...

I also agree with the fish oil comment above.
 
If you really want to avoid the insulin spike effecting the ara why not dose the ara 30-45 min pre then just take your dex after warming up. That would allow the ara time to get to the muscles and then you'd still get the dex in your system for the start of your workout.
 
Day 30

30mg Ostarine - 8:00am

Moment of truth:
Morning weight: 158
BF %9.44
Lbs body fat - 14.91
Lbs lbm: 143.09

In comparison to:
Weight on 10/20: 152
BF %8.2
Lbs body fat - 12.46
Lbs lbm - 139.54

***About 4.5 pounds of muscle and 1.5 pounds of fat increase in 2 weeks with ~4400 kcals***

I don't have access to the full text of the study (probably will just have to buy with my next paycheck), but this seems to be in line with their findings. Granted I'm using an anabolic agent (albeit a mild one) and so my results are skewed or would be viewed as in the top range of results. Now, this is only after 2 weeks. My diet was controlled, but my food sources weren't. Meaning I ate a lot of dry cereal and high glycemic carbs. This time I will be using a lot of oatmeal, brown rice and cream of wheat (thank you booneman77 for the suggestion) and other low glycemic carbs.

I will also make sure to get at least 2 gallons of water in.

I might try and employ MCTs in the morning and fast for a few hours to keep the fat burning going from the evening.

Supplementation Update
I will be loading ArA starting today for PCT. I will be stacking MyoSynergy with it because I won a free bottle and read that it amplifies ArA.

Notes:
As I mentioned, I woke up two nights ago and couldn't go back to sleep. This really did a number on my physique throughout the day. I became more bloated and it seems that some of the estro-related sides of Ostarine shined through. I felt emotional and just plain weird, so I dosed a full pump of transFORM at night before bed and woke up pretty lean. I also woke up to pee and swear I peed for a good 5 minutes, so again, regardless of diet Ostarine makes you hold water. Keep this mind for your cycles and have an AI on hand if you don't want to look or feel like the stay puft marshmallow man.

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This is going to be week 5 and I'm kind of sad that I'm in the final stages of this cycle. I feel heavier, more confident and stronger, but at the same time I didn't know what to expect of ostarine. Maybe these next two weeks will surprise me, but I feel ostarine simply amplifies what you're genetically capable of. It's not a PH, so users should not expect PH-like results, but it is a great compound.

Lastly, my shoulder mobility is increasing, but I still get this weird pain in my tricep when I hyperextend it to stretch out my chest. Due to this, I have been looking into peptides, but that's for another time and another log.
 
Awesome update. I'm having a similar tendinitis type issue with my elbow as well. Only thing that seems to bug it is iso holds on presses and a little during bb bench. I notice it most when doing single arm db rows and the other arm that is supporting my upper body gets achy when I stand up. Hockey bugged it as well (twisting when I was shooting). I think it's a tendinitis issue as I can't pinpoint any particular muscle or spot of pain. Just an area ache.
 
booneman77 said:
Awesome update. I'm having a similar tendinitis type issue with my elbow as well. Only thing that seems to bug it is iso holds on presses and a little during bb bench. I notice it most when doing single arm db rows and the other arm that is supporting my upper body gets achy when I stand up. Hockey bugged it as well (twisting when I was shooting). I think it's a tendinitis issue as I can't pinpoint any particular muscle or spot of pain. Just an area ache.
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Thanks, man!

I used to have that problem on my left side and it made any kind of shoulder press a bitch and half.

This is more like weird pain in my tricep when I hyper extend. Kind of like how you describe it as an area ache. Squating with a narrow only exacerbates the issue and I've used my sister's electric stim machine which seems to be helping, but I think I need to go a different route to get this fixed.
 
The Engineer said:
Thanks, man!

I used to have that problem on my left side and it made any kind of shoulder press a bitch and half.

This is more like weird pain in my tricep when I hyper extend. Kind of like how you describe it as an area ache. Squating with a narrow only exacerbates the issue and I've used my sister's electric stim machine which seems to be helping, but I think I need to go a different route to get this fixed.
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Use a resistance band to get some of the mobility back. For example:

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That one frees up a lot of jankiness from the biceps and forearms which are usually the causes of elbow locking/discomfort/pain. Lower insertion of the triceps by the elbows as well.
 
Mine doesn't hurt at all doing shoulder press. Only bb bench and only on the lowering portion. I think it's the odd twist a bb forces you to do.
 
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