Obama

Clemenza said:
Faith to guide him is not scary at all. IMO it is comforting.

A politician saying God speaks directly to him and tells him to drop a bomb should be in a straight jacket.

lol like I said I've never heard Bush say anything like that. That article is hearsay and not conclusive, I think you'd agree.
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Im glad we agree on this. I think you bought up a good point about Bush's quote being from 3rd party. Id like to hear him say it himself or find that in his book.

I do remember Newt Gingrich on TV saying he would talk to god to go to war very short while back, but I cannot find the source to show.
 
AE14 said:
Surprised ax hasn't jumped in on this comment.
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Ok, will do...lol

But.... AE, is that the best you got!!!! BBC, the ones who reported Building 7 went down 15 minutes before it actually fell down (and yes I was watching BBC that day.)
 
Switching the topic away from religion for the good of the thread...

And while I'm on a roll defending Bush, here's something the BBC or MSNBC has never and will never show you...

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Sept 10. 2003
"The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac , the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.

The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios. "
 
ax1 said:
Im glad we agree on this. I think you bought up a good point about Bush's quote being from 3rd party. Id like to hear him say it himself or find that in his book.

I do remember Newt Gingrich on TV saying he would talk to god to go to war very short while back, but I cannot find the source to show.
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Newt needs to pay a visit to that witchcraft pastor. That man may be satan himself.
 
southpaw23 said:
Except, it's always being dragged into the discussion. See above. My point is religion all too often permeates itself into political discourse. Whatever beliefs this country was founded on, remember this, times evolve and so has the populous of this country.
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So you're saying whatever "evolving" the populous does, that's the direction we should just go with?
 
ax1 said:
Thats true. Her husband is there next to her though, as well as head of the AIP. I do think with confident certainty its does look like Palin.

I did first see this years ago on that Keith Olberman show...he also reported how the minister went to africa to find out why someone died. He accused some lady of a village of being a witch and the entire village rebelled and drove her out. Do I think its true? Certainly cannot conclude on that.

Anyways you bring up a point I agree with, skepticism is good.
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You know that you discredit yourself by admitting that you've ever watched Keith Olbermann. ;)
 
AX, what do you think of the NY Times article I posted. Bush seeing a problem with Fannie and Freddie 7 years earlier, trying to set regulations and stop the out of control lending, and then getting the blame for the bubble burst?
 
Clemenza said:
AX, what do you think of the NY Times article I posted. Bush seeing a problem with Fannie and Freddie 7 years earlier, trying to set regulations and stop the out of control lending, and then getting the blame for the bubble burst?
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Ill reed it later my friend, its WWE Raw time, lol
 
Clemenza said:
Faith to guide him is not scary at all. IMO it is comforting.

A politician saying God speaks directly to him and tells him to drop a bomb should be in a straight jacket.

lol like I said I've never heard Bush say anything like that. That article is hearsay and not conclusive, I think you'd agree.
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But earlier it was why be religious if it can't guide your decisions? Now it's pick and choose when to listen to God? A politician saying God told me to bomb Egypt is the scariest thing ever imo. And since you brought up Jesus I think the first thing a politician would do who used Jesus as his guide would be to get rid of capitalism. Just my opinion that to the victor go the spoils isn't high on his list. He may resemble a food stamp President even :)

That's gotta be it for me tonight on this. I gotta go do something else :)
 
Clemenza said:
Bro what is this a gang fight? You have a problem with it jump on it yourself.
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Don't be so melodramatic. My comment was in relation to earlier comments in this thread.

Now...you can choose to believe a first hand account or not. Either way neither of us were there, so we will ever know.
 
Geoforce said:
But earlier it was why be religious if it can't guide your decisions? Now it's pick and choose when to listen to God? A politician saying God told me to bomb Egypt is the scariest thing ever imo. And since you brought up Jesus I think the first thing a politician would do who used Jesus as his guide would be to get rid of capitalism. Just my opinion that to the victor go the spoils isn't high on his list. He may resemble a food stamp President even :)

That's gotta be it for me tonight on this. I gotta go do something else :)
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You're way off on this. The idea and occurrance of free market capitalism can be found in the first few books of Moses.

And the day Jesus is or appoints a dictator to fairly distribute currency and value, I will then become a socialist.

Jesus a socialist? You've obviously never read and understood scripture. Unless of course it came from the Michael Moore handbook.
 
Clemenza said:
AX, what do you think of the NY Times article I posted. Bush seeing a problem with Fannie and Freddie 7 years earlier, trying to set regulations and stop the out of control lending, and then getting the blame for the bubble burst?
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Thats interesting and I dont think everything Bush did was was bad. In my own opinion the wars, the doctrine of preemptive wars, establishing Homeland Security, martial law police state policy such as the Patriot Act are so substantially against my personal ethical code that there is nothing than can convince me to give him a pat in the back for anything good he did or tried to do.

Clemenza said:
I'm actually a good friend of Zack Ryder
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Saw him last night at the pay per view (I was there) he showed up at the main event,

I love the guy!
 
Geoforce said:
Bush is an idiot because of his policies and the millions of speaking gaffes (not gafts FWIW). Palin is an idiot because her words paint her as an idiot. Her lack of foreign policy knowledge was scary when she could have been one step away from commander in chief. I don't see how anyone could think otherwise. A simple google search will bring up countless "does she have a clue when it comes to anything foreign policy?" Side-stepping that with anything from "but the left, the left, the left!" won't change my opinion.

As for religion we have a separation of church and state established in the Constitution and yet every politician wants to talk about how "faith" will guide their policies. We have no official religion and faith ideally would play no role in politics. Obviously many might disagree with that, but in my opinion that would be ideal.
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I'd be willing to bet George bush had higher sat scores than you....
 
southpaw23 said:
Except, it's always being dragged into the discussion. See above. My point is religion all too often permeates itself into political discourse. Whatever beliefs this country was founded on, remember this, times evolve and so has the populous of this country.
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Before the dawn of man, how many millions of species evolved themselves into extinction? Times evolving without rational thought and planning behind why and the direction of evolution does not guarantee the evolution being better
 
southpaw23 said:
Palin is a moron who appeals to, never mind, not even going to state it because it will come off as elitist. But you can see where I'm going with that.
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You don't need to say something about Palin to sound elitist. You already have. You say that most news sources people cite here are illegitimate due to corporate influence or political bias. Yet you then finally claim that Chris Matthews is a credible and UNBIASED person. And when someone calls you on your inconsistency, you just mock the person. So you already come off as elitist. No need to change now. You mock them just like Matthews mocks EVERYONE. I guess I see why you like home.
 
youngandfree said:
I guess a Bachelors from Yale and an MBA from Harvard would make you pretty stupid like Bush wouldn't it.
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Granted that is where he went to school, but look at how he got in
 
Its better than anyone receiving an "honorary" degree from anywhere. Getting in and graduating are two different things. Plenty of people get into fancy schools and flunk out.

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youngandfree said:
I guess a Bachelors from Yale and an MBA from Harvard would make you pretty stupid like Bush wouldn't it.
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People are intelligent in different ways. Ive met plenty of college grads including high tech schools that lack certain other area's of intelligence or way thinking. Graduating college for many is just memorizing books and taking exams, but yes it does require a decent mind and discipline.

Also, intelligent people may also be corrupt or evil, Mao Tse Tung was very intelligent.

People focusing on Bush's mumbles and jumbles is a bit of a distraction, but it sure make my late night television so much better.
 
youngandfree said:
Its better than anyone receiving an "honorary" degree from anywhere. Getting in and graduating are two different things. Plenty of people get into fancy schools and flunk out.

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first...I am not an Obama supporter...thought I should make that clear. Second, you are comparing a President to a first lady? Really?

It is a fairly well established fact that HW Bush pulled some strings for W to get in an complete his degrees. I am not saying he is an idiot by any stretch, but in the world of public speaking he belongs on the short bus with a padded helmet. ;)

To ax's point, there are many kinds of intelligences... so focusing soley on degrees is meaningless
 
So why are folks disparaging A's and others' examples of Obama's numerous and documented gaffes? It goes back to consistency in your argument, whatever that may be. I didn't imply you were an Obama supporter AE. I am just merely pointing out examples. My comparison of an honorary degree to two degrees from a couple of the most highly coveted Ivy League schools was more for Southpaw. Since he didn't feel like they were worthy degrees for Bush and implied he didn't actually earn them. Folks are saying Palin is an idiot for making gaffes, along with Bush. Yet when folks point out the hipocrasy, they are mocked. I just don't get it.
 
youngandfree said:
So why are folks disparaging A's and others' examples of Obama's numerous and documented gaffes? It goes back to consistency in your argument, whatever that may be. I didn't imply you were an Obama supporter AE. I am just merely pointing out examples. My comparison of an honorary degree to two degrees from a couple of the most highly coveted Ivy League schools was more for Southpaw. Since he didn't feel like they were worthy degrees for Bush and implied he didn't actually earn them. Folks are saying Palin is an idiot for making gaffes, along with Bush. Yet when folks point out the hipocrasy, they are mocked. I just don't get it.
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Don't get me wrong Obama has made gaffes as has Biden. However, your comparison was of Michelle Obama getting an honorary degree not Barack.
 
Again, you can say bush was an idiot but reality differs. Conspiracy theories about his father fixing his grades aren't any better than the conspiracy theories about Obama's past. Bush had a 1206 SAT score, which althogh not super spectacular is close to qualifying for mensa membership (1250). I'm sure at least southpaw to suit his ideology stance will create a conspiracy theory about how bush's dad fixed that too.

Its amazing you think bush sr had any more power to manipulate harvard's grades than Kerry's dad, or Gore's dad, considering bush went there a couple decades before his father even became VP.
 
EasyEJL said:
Before the dawn of man, how many millions of species evolved themselves into extinction? Times evolving without rational thought and planning behind why and the direction of evolution does not guarantee the evolution being better
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And religion constitutes rational thought? Which is exactly what my comments spoke to.
 
southpaw23 said:
And religion constitutes rational thought? Which is exactly what my comments spoke to.
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neither does "do what feels good" or "someone else should save me from my own bad choices". the concept that views are evolving does not mean they are evolving into something better. The fact that they are changing is not necessarily a good thing.
 
southpaw23 said:
And religion constitutes rational thought? Which is exactly what my comments spoke to.
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So why is it that I know religious people far smarter and intelligent than athiests?

Religious affiliation isnt an exact indicator of someones overall rational thinking.
 
youngandfree said:
You don't need to say something about Palin to sound elitist. You already have. You say that most news sources people cite here are illegitimate due to corporate influence or political bias. Yet you then finally claim that Chris Matthews is a credible and UNBIASED person. And when someone calls you on your inconsistency, you just mock the person. So you already come off as elitist. No need to change now. You mock them just like Matthews mocks EVERYONE. I guess I see why you like home.
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Obviously context is not your strong suit. My comments were based on drawing distinctions between Palin and Matthews, which are night and day.
 
youngandfree said:
So why are folks disparaging A's and others' examples of Obama's numerous and documented gaffes? It goes back to consistency in your argument, whatever that may be. I didn't imply you were an Obama supporter AE. I am just merely pointing out examples. My comparison of an honorary degree to two degrees from a couple of the most highly coveted Ivy League schools was more for Southpaw. Since he didn't feel like they were worthy degrees for Bush and implied he didn't actually earn them. Folks are saying Palin is an idiot for making gaffes, along with Bush. Yet when folks point out the hipocrasy, they are mocked. I just don't get it.
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I'm not implying anything, it's all on the record. We're all well aware of how long it took for Palin to earn her degree (BA) and how she was unable to finish out her term, when the kitchen got a little hot.
 
southpaw23 said:
I'm not implying anything, it's all on the record. We're all well aware of how long it took for Palin to earn her degree (BA) and how she is unable to finish out her term, when the kitchen got a little hot.
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There are many intelligent people who took longer to complete their degree or dropped out of college, and even skipped out on college.

Its her choice not to finish out her term...she had other opportunities awaiting for her and Im sure you understand that if you were in her shoes you would consider them.
 
ax1 said:
So why is it that I know religious people far smarter and intelligent than athiests?

Religious affiliation isnt an exact indicator of someones overall rational thinking.
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So because you know a few religious people that happen to be smarter than atheists, that amounts to a valid case study?
 
southpaw23 said:
So because you know a few religious people that happen to be smarter than atheists, that amounts to a valid case study?
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To say that religious people lack rational thinking is kinda like racism.

You seem to cling to categorizing everyone in groups both religious and political and judging by stereo types based on your understanding of them rather than trying to judge people as individuals. It can really lead to a blind eye as you unintentionally close yourself off to large part of society.
 
ax1 said:
There are many intelligent people who took longer to complete their degree or dropped out of college, and even skipped out on college.

Its her choice not to finish out her term...she had other opportunities awaiting for her and Im sure you understand that if you were in her shoes you would consider them.
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She couldn't finish out her term as governor, which politically is one of the highest honors that one can have in serving their state, but she considers herself qualified to potentially govern/manage an entire country? Let's be clear, she isn't a very bright woman. She "emotes", there is a clear difference between being able to intellectually examine and grasp a given issue, and emoting over an issue through a religious filter.
 
ax1 said:
To say that religious people lack rational thinking is kinda like racism.

You seem to cling to categorizing everyone in groups both religious and political and judging by stereo types based on your understanding of them rather than trying to judge people as individuals. It can really lead to a blind eye as you unintentionally close yourself off to large part of society.
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Dear god man, I didn't say that. Seriously? I said that religion should be respected, but should also remain personal and kept COMPLETELY out of politics.
 
EasyEJL said:
Again, you can say bush was an idiot but reality differs. Conspiracy theories about his father fixing his grades aren't any better than the conspiracy theories about Obama's past. Bush had a 1206 SAT score, which althogh not super spectacular is close to qualifying for mensa membership (1250). I'm sure at least southpaw to suit his ideology stance will create a conspiracy theory about how bush's dad fixed that too.

Its amazing you think bush sr had any more power to manipulate harvard's grades than Kerry's dad, or Gore's dad, considering bush went there a couple decades before his father even became VP.
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are you unfamiliar with the history of HW? just curious

Also, I never said grade fix, I mentioned entrance to institutions
 
My point is you say Palin is an idiot, and I say Matthews is one. It is well documented by the years of footage on Matthews that he is no better than anyone else and doesn't miss too many opportunities to make an ass of himself. And my point is that you consider Matthews a credible journalist, and I am pointing out reasons why I think he isn't based on your arguments about Palin. It all ties together.

Since you think msnbc is a credible source, how do you explain Andrea Mitchell's falsely edited tape of Romney's speech at a Wa Wa? She or the producers intentionally left out a couple minutes of Romney's speech where he talked about the difference about the private and.public sector. They edited the tape to sound like he was amazed at the touchscreen technology they use to order a sandwich, and she acted like he was so out of touch with America. But if you see the entire video, they left out the meat of what he was saying and completely changed the context of it so they could say he was out of touch. Go ahead and listen to both videos, just a couple minutes long.

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youngandfree said:
My point is you say Palin is an idiot, and I say Matthews is one. It is well documented by the years of footage on Matthews that he is no better than anyone else and doesn't miss too many opportunities to make an ass of himself. And my point is that you consider Matthews a credible journalist, and I am pointing out reasons why I think he isn't based on your arguments about Palin. It all ties together.

Since you think msnbc is a credible source, how do you explain Andrea Mitchell's falsely edited tape of Romney's speech at a Wa Wa? She or the producers intentionally left out a couple minutes of Romney's speech where he talked about the difference about the private and.public sector. They edited the tape to sound like he was amazed at the touchscreen technology they use to order a sandwich, and she acted like he was so out of touch with America. But if you see the entire video, they left out the meat of what he was saying and completely changed the context of it so they could say he was out of touch. Go ahead and listen to both videos, just a couple minutes long.

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[email protected] :/ Anyway, guess what the difference is between the two? One considers herself qualified to run a country, the other is on TV. But have fun sourcing "news" articles from Breitbart.com.
 
southpaw23 said:
Dear god man, I didn't say that. Seriously? I said that religion should be respected, but should also remain personal and kept COMPLETELY out of politics.
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It sounded like that, but I understand what you are saying now.
 
ax1 said:
You have to use sources from MSNBC to prove your point, or its totally biased and invalidated.
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You keep bringing up MSNBC almost reflexively which is predictable. At what point did I say MSNBC was the most credible source of news reporting? If you paid attention to my prior remarks, you'd clearly see that I stated MSNBC is the flip side of Fox.
 
You forgot to mention msnbc editing the zimmerman 911 call to make him sound racist.

You really don't even have to go much further than to understand msnbc was owned by GE until recently. GE, a huge donor to obama, received a very nice bonus in the stimulus package. GE did not pay a dollar in federal income taxes last year.

This is no conspiracy theory. It is corruption plain and simple and explains why msnbc is owned lock stop and barrel by the obama administration
 
ax1 said:
Thats not msnbc, and to make matters worse there are youtube video's on that. Your digging a hole for yourself dude.
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Or rather, instead of being reflexive in your responses, try asking these questions instead. Who is John Haven? What's his background in journalism/accreditation?
 
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