NTNM - Diet , my un-scientific approach to leanness

[Studhorse]

Catching up.
Smith Squat great Idea. after about 10 years of not doing squats because of back issues I started with low weight and easy to keep strict form. don't be like me. after a few months my mobility, technique and stability improved and I got too cocky and had worked my way up to too much weight and still going what most would consider to deep & hurt my lower back again.

Wish I would of just stuck with the burn of 15-20 reps.

tried them again about 3 months ago and about 2 weeks in I woke up one morning with nasty back spasms. Ever since I slipped a disk 20 +yrs.ago my lower back has been prone to spasms. squats really flairs this up.I probably miss squats more than any other lift.

Never had really bad knees though. My ankles are so bad that they always took the damage in sports.

What i'm suggesting is form / form / form. keep them slow and keep the reps up and raise the weight slowly.Best of luck brother! I'm jealous.

 

[Rocket3015]

I have a love - hate relationship with the squat, with my back and knee issues now when I squat I use 95lbs and shoot for 100 reps. Can't walk the next day but I feel like "I Won"

 

[Studhorse]

I have a love - hate relationship with the squat, with my back and knee issues now when I squat I use 95lbs and shoot for 100 reps. Can't walk the next day but I feel like "I Won"

Holy crap 100 reps. maybe I should try that? I don't have to walk a lot of stairs but I do need to be able to get up from the crapper.

 

[Rocket3015]

Holy crap 100 reps. maybe I should try that? I don't have to walk a lot of stairs but I do need to be able to get up from the crapper.

It might take awhile !!

 

[MrKleen73]

One thing too many people write off squats completely when they can not go to parallel or below any longer. However a good 2/3 squat to say 110-120 degrees is a lot more knee and lower back friendly and still works all the same muscles. Also doing box squats is an excellent way to incorporate squatting for someone who has problems with their knees as you must sit back to do them and the knee is never over the toes, plus you can have complete control of squat depth via the box.

 

[Rocket3015]

I think I might give Smith Machine Squats a try tomorrow morning

 

[hairygrandpa]

Catching up.
Smith Squat great Idea. after about 10 years of not doing squats because of back issues I started with low weight and easy to keep strict form. don't be like me. after a few months my mobility, technique and stability improved and I got too cocky and had worked my way up to too much weight and still going what most would consider to deep & hurt my lower back again.

Wish I would of just stuck with the burn of 15-20 reps.

tried them again about 3 months ago and about 2 weeks in I woke up one morning with nasty back spasms. Ever since I slipped a disk 20 +yrs.ago my lower back has been prone to spasms. squats really flairs this up.I probably miss squats more than any other lift.

Never had really bad knees though. My ankles are so bad that they always took the damage in sports.

What i'm suggesting is form / form / form. keep them slow and keep the reps up and raise the weight slowly.Best of luck brother! I'm jealous.

I hear you, bro. Will keep it moderate and watching form. Why upping weights -I'm cutting anyway. Same for DB bench press and BB bench press. Will keep moderate weights and play with timing.

 

[Whisky]

I hear you, bro. Will keep it moderate and watching form. Why upping weights -I'm cutting anyway. Same for DB bench press and BB bench press. Will keep moderate weights and play with timing.

Great shout on timing, simply adding a few seconds to the negative would be great progression. Smart training right there HG

 

[HIT4ME]

I have a love - hate relationship with the squat, with my back and knee issues now when I squat I use 95lbs and shoot for 100 reps. Can't walk the next day but I feel like "I Won"

Yeah, so, I am gonna throw this out there. It is hard because I don't know your personal situation and what you have tried and haven't tried...but here is my viewpoint.

First, highly impressed that you are fighting back against your body saying no to one of the toughest exercises in am intelligent manner. Most people quit, while otherd do something stupid and ignore the issues until there is no more choice. much respect for that.

I like doing light weight squats because these allow you to work on the movement pattern and make changes. The higher reps allow you to make a change and solidify the new way of moving into your nervous system, which I think gets over looked a lot. If you have a problem squatting, take the weight off the bar and start over. Adjust the movement until it feels better.

On the other hand, doing high rep working sets with a y frequency, is a good recipe for long term injury. I experimented with this a lot last year...and even frequent low volume workouts with only moderate intensities led to pains over time that took forever to heal. The funny thing was, I could move with the pains and so I could keep working the exercise, but they were there and they effected my daily living and mental push.

My advice is to drop the volume and frequency. Do what you are doing to start and add 5-10 pounds every workout until you are back down around 15 reps.

I would not train squats more than once a week or even a little less...like every 9 days...especially over 35, unless you are chemically assisted.

People will do 100 rep bench presses and squats, but if you said you did 50 rep deadlift they would tell you that is a surefire way to get injured. Both sides have merit...the truth isn't that clear cut. But sometimes heavier and less frequent is better.

Just my thoughts.

One thing too many people write off squats completely when they can not go to parallel or below any longer. However a good 2/3 squat to say 110-120 degrees is a lot more knee and lower back friendly and still works all the same muscles. Also doing box squats is an excellent way to incorporate squatting for someone who has problems with their knees as you must sit back to do them and the knee is never over the toes, plus you can have complete control of squat depth via the box.

This. The azz-to-the-grass idea is nice and good for movement patterns, but there is actually some data that heavier partial squats are equally or more effective. I think John Meadows or someone even wrote an article once saying they stopped doing full range squats and that's when they actually saw the most leg growth

People have to do what is right for their capabilities.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, so, I am gonna throw this out there. It is hard because I don't know your personal situation and what you have tried and haven't tried...but here is my viewpoint.

First, highly impressed that you are fighting back against your body saying no to one of the toughest exercises in am intelligent manner. Most people quit, while otherd do something stupid and ignore the issues until there is no more choice. much respect for that.

I like doing light weight squats because these allow you to work on the movement pattern and make changes. The higher reps allow you to make a change and solidify the new way of moving into your nervous system, which I think gets over looked a lot. If you have a problem squatting, take the weight off the bar and start over. Adjust the movement until it feels better.

On the other hand, doing high rep working sets with a y frequency, is a good recipe for long term injury. I experimented with this a lot last year...and even frequent low volume workouts with only moderate intensities led to pains over time that took forever to heal. The funny thing was, I could move with the pains and so I could keep working the exercise, but they were there and they effected my daily living and mental push.

My advice is to drop the volume and frequency. Do what you are doing to start and add 5-10 pounds every workout until you are back down around 15 reps.

I would not train squats more than once a week or even a little less...like every 9 days...especially over 35, unless you are chemically assisted.

People will do 100 rep bench presses and squats, but if you said you did 50 rep deadlift they would tell you that is a surefire way to get injured. Both sides have merit...the truth isn't that clear cut. But sometimes heavier and less frequent is better.

Just my thoughts.



This. The azz-to-the-grass idea is nice and good for movement patterns, but there is actually some data that heavier partial squats are equally or more effective. I think John Meadows or someone even wrote an article once saying they stopped doing full range squats and that's when they actually saw the most leg growth

People have to do what is right for their capabilities.

I think there are a lot of conclusions jumped to in here but the general ideas are good.

There is a serious difference between a loaded and unloaded squat, the mechanics change slightly once an appropriate load has been reached. So removing the weight and doing them and adjusting until it feels better is not going to directly help with your loaded squat pattern. However if you are just talking about backing off 20-50lbs but still loaded enough to have the same mechanics then I agree completely.

On the frequency side of things, I would be willing to bet that you were not foam rolling, and doing regular mobility drills for your hips after every time you squatted during this time. Frequency of squatting with appropriate load, mobility work, and SMR can be multiple times a week without issue.

Not sure why you are putting an age cap on squatting more than once every 9 days unless being chemically assisted. What would that have to do with squatting regularly except that more frequent squatting would cause an increase in testosterone which for the natural lifter would be more beneficial. Especially for those over 35.

Also putting a limitation on that implies that this is sexual hormone based, if that is the case and the hormones that decline are sexual hormones mostly testosterone. Then are you also saying that a woman should never squat more often then that because her testosterone levels are lower than a mans shut down levels from birth? See it really doesn't have to do with hormones and although hormones can assist in recovery, women recover just fine without high levels of testosterone, and many squat 3 times a week. When it comes to age, the only hormone that makes a big difference in the connective tissue recovery is GH. It drops for all of us starting in our 30's and that drop limits the production of collagen used to repair the connective tissues.

I am not sure about Meadows, but my ortho was the one who told me I can build just as much muscle doing partials in my strongest and safest ROM as I can doing full ROM. He told me it was also safer to load those ranges of the ROM to an extreme than it was to to lift into an extreme ROM. Add that to the fact I am naturally very flexible and that means I really have to watch my ROMs when loaded even moderately. If I use my full ROM on many things I put myself into very precarious situations comfortably UNTIL something goes wrong from being in the precarious position.

 

[HIT4ME]

I think there are a lot of conclusions jumped to in here but the general ideas are good..

I love how you question everything, haha - but that's why I said it's hard to say without knowing his specific situations. There are a lot of generalized assumptions.

There is a serious difference between a loaded and unloaded squat, the mechanics change slightly once an appropriate load has been reached. So removing the weight and doing them and adjusting until it feels better is not going to directly help with your loaded squat pattern. However if you are just talking about backing off 20-50lbs but still loaded enough to have the same mechanics then I agree completely.

This is somewhat true, but they really shouldn't. You are training for a movement though, you should be able to do THAT movement with very little load or a lot of load exactly the same. I'm not saying no bar at all, but I would imagine his 95 pounds is sufficient. I have spent time with 135 pounds working on the movement. The idea really is that it becomes a second nature default. If your natural movement with a light weight can't push a heavier weight, and your mechanics change, it's because you are trying to compensate and altering the movement to do so. You want to have squatted so many times with perfect movement that when you start to fail, that is just how your brain does the movement and there is no compensation. This is really the benefit of backing off the weight and doing more reps.

Having said that, yeah, squatting with no bar is different (mainly because of balance) than squatting with a bar. But it doesn't take much weight to lock in on your form and create a neurological groove for that motion.

Who knows...maybe I'm wrong?

On the frequency side of things, I would be willing to bet that you were not foam rolling, and doing regular mobility drills for your hips after every time you squatted during this time. Frequency of squatting with appropriate load, mobility work, and SMR can be multiple times a week without issue.

Not sure why you are putting an age cap on squatting more than once every 9 days unless being chemically assisted. What would that have to do with squatting regularly except that more frequent squatting would cause an increase in testosterone which for the natural lifter would be more beneficial. Especially for those over 35.

Also putting a limitation on that implies that this is sexual hormone based, if that is the case and the hormones that decline are sexual hormones mostly testosterone. Then are you also saying that a woman should never squat more often then that because her testosterone levels are lower than a mans shut down levels from birth? See it really doesn't have to do with hormones and although hormones can assist in recovery, women recover just fine without high levels of testosterone, and many squat 3 times a week. When it comes to age, the only hormone that makes a big difference in the connective tissue recovery is GH. It drops for all of us starting in our 30's and that drop limits the production of collagen used to repair the connective tissues.

The age limit was somewhat arbitrary. Obviously not really a specific, scientific cut off. It will vary for everyone.

No, maybe I could have spent more time with active recovery, but that underlies the actual argument - there are challenges to overcome as frequency goes up. Chronic stress will eventually break you down. I'm not capping how often you squat. Keep in mind, I was squatting 3X per week there for a while. Yes, only minimal foam rolling involved. But, the frequency took a larger toll on my joints than weight ever did. I can go out and squat once every 7 days and see pretty comparable (maybe even better) results without the nagging injuries or any need for foam rolling, etc.

Gear will improve MPS and recovery in general. Using your man vs. woman analogy - if a man squats 300 pounds for 3 sets of 15 reps and a woman does the very same, who is going to be able to come back tomorrow and do it again? Far more men will be able to do it than females. It's not a matter of Test = more muslce/strength. It's everything that comes with test - it will dramatically improve recovery from work.

This gets confused because most women will be squatting 150 and for them, it's the same intensity as most men squatting 250 or so - but the workload is what you have to recover from and recovering from 150 isn't the same as recovering from 250. People seem to think it is, but this ignores basic physical principles.

But mostly your last paragraph is my point. As you get older, things break down, you have been through more, you don't recover as fast, joints start to fail, etc. It isn't just load that damages a joint, reps do a number on them too. The 35 was arbitrary because....I notice at 38 that it has become much more noticeable how I don't recover like I did at 20. And I also have in my head something Michael Jordan said about getting older and how things got harder in his late 30's, he wasn't young anymore. And of course, all sorts of generalizations about the late 30's being a physical turning point.

I am not sure about Meadows, but my ortho was the one who told me I can build just as much muscle doing partials in my strongest and safest ROM as I can doing full ROM. He told me it was also safer to load those ranges of the ROM to an extreme than it was to to lift into an extreme ROM. Add that to the fact I am naturally very flexible and that means I really have to watch my ROMs when loaded even moderately. If I use my full ROM on many things I put myself into very precarious situations comfortably UNTIL something goes wrong from being in the precarious position.

Yeah, I think too many people get hard and fast rules in their head because one person does something. The fact is, extreme joint motion is never a good thing and different people move differently. I can squat pretty deep and I've never had knee pain (knock on wood). My hips will start to hurt and my IT Band in particular when I squat improperly. My adjustments will be different than someone with bad knees.

Great, now teach me more MrKleen73.

 

[MrKleen73]

I love how you question everything, haha - but that's why I said it's hard to say without knowing his specific situations. There are a lot of generalized assumptions.




This is somewhat true, but they really shouldn't. You are training for a movement though, you should be able to do THAT movement with very little load or a lot of load exactly the same. I'm not saying no bar at all, but I would imagine his 95 pounds is sufficient. I have spent time with 135 pounds working on the movement. The idea really is that it becomes a second nature default. If your natural movement with a light weight can't push a heavier weight, and your mechanics change, it's because you are trying to compensate and altering the movement to do so. You want to have squatted so many times with perfect movement that when you start to fail, that is just how your brain does the movement and there is no compensation. This is really the benefit of backing off the weight and doing more reps.

Having said that, yeah, squatting with no bar is different (mainly because of balance) than squatting with a bar. But it doesn't take much weight to lock in on your form and create a neurological groove for that motion.

Who knows...maybe I'm wrong?




The age limit was somewhat arbitrary. Obviously not really a specific, scientific cut off. It will vary for everyone.

No, maybe I could have spent more time with active recovery, but that underlies the actual argument - there are challenges to overcome as frequency goes up. Chronic stress will eventually break you down. I'm not capping how often you squat. Keep in mind, I was squatting 3X per week there for a while. Yes, only minimal foam rolling involved. But, the frequency took a larger toll on my joints than weight ever did. I can go out and squat once every 7 days and see pretty comparable (maybe even better) results without the nagging injuries or any need for foam rolling, etc.

Gear will improve MPS and recovery in general. Using your man vs. woman analogy - if a man squats 300 pounds for 3 sets of 15 reps and a woman does the very same, who is going to be able to come back tomorrow and do it again? Far more men will be able to do it than females. It's not a matter of Test = more muslce/strength. It's everything that comes with test - it will dramatically improve recovery from work.

This gets confused because most women will be squatting 150 and for them, it's the same intensity as most men squatting 250 or so - but the workload is what you have to recover from and recovering from 150 isn't the same as recovering from 250. People seem to think it is, but this ignores basic physical principles.

But mostly your last paragraph is my point. As you get older, things break down, you have been through more, you don't recover as fast, joints start to fail, etc. It isn't just load that damages a joint, reps do a number on them too. The 35 was arbitrary because....I notice at 38 that it has become much more noticeable how I don't recover like I did at 20. And I also have in my head something Michael Jordan said about getting older and how things got harder in his late 30's, he wasn't young anymore. And of course, all sorts of generalizations about the late 30's being a physical turning point.



Yeah, I think too many people get hard and fast rules in their head because one person does something. The fact is, extreme joint motion is never a good thing and different people move differently. I can squat pretty deep and I've never had knee pain (knock on wood). My hips will start to hurt and my IT Band in particular when I squat improperly. My adjustments will be different than someone with bad knees.

Great, now teach me more MrKleen73.

Yeah on the weight thing we agree, you basically need whatever weight loading it is that is going to effect your center of gravity the same. I was really only questioning if you meant weightless, or just lowering the weight to a more manageable weight and perfecting the form. My point was that perfecting body weight squats will help you with weighted squats but will not be direct carryover. Where the weight is placed, and or simply adding the weight changes the center of gravity of the movement and there are slightly different requirements to be efficient once weight is added or removed.

Gear improves recovery in general yes, and I do agree that either frequency, intensity or volume will need lowered as age takes its toll on your your body especially what happens with collagen production. However my attestation was that the gear does not really aid much in joint recovery. Even in the case of nandrolone, it is not much and is often a result of increased Free E2 levels

I can't get into the weight ranges or what not you mentioned regarding males and females. I mean I could and itwould be a fun debate to take into the rabbit hole, but it doesn't really translate to what is important here. That declining GH levels bring on declining collagen production which brings on the age related issues with connective tissue recovery, and not whether or not you are on gear. Being on gear in reality is going to make you more likely to push too hard, use too much volume, and end up overdoing things to the point of exacerbating problems.

WOW, I am patting myself on the back for resisting the male female weights lifted rabbit hole. I had probably 3 paragraphs queued up in my head already on where to go with that comparison.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Interesting discussion! That's why I'm here on AM !

 

[Rocket3015]

HIT4ME Thank you for you input, and it is timed perfectly, this morning I did 5 set of 10 on the smith machine started at 95lbs and added 10lbs every set. I think in 2 weeks I will do the same just start at 105lbs. Something different ????

 

[HIT4ME]

Yeah on the weight thing we agree, you basically need whatever weight loading it is that is going to effect your center of gravity the same. I was really only questioning if you meant weightless, or just lowering the weight to a more manageable weight and perfecting the form. My point was that perfecting body weight squats will help you with weighted squats but will not be direct carryover. Where the weight is placed, and or simply adding the weight changes the center of gravity of the movement and there are slightly different requirements to be efficient once weight is added or removed.

Gear improves recovery in general yes, and I do agree that either frequency, intensity or volume will need lowered as age takes its toll on your your body especially what happens with collagen production. However my attestation was that the gear does not really aid much in joint recovery. Even in the case of nandrolone, it is not much and is often a result of increased Free E2 levels

I can't get into the weight ranges or what not you mentioned regarding males and females. I mean I could and itwould be a fun debate to take into the rabbit hole, but it doesn't really translate to what is important here. That declining GH levels bring on declining collagen production which brings on the age related issues with connective tissue recovery, and not whether or not you are on gear. Being on gear in reality is going to make you more likely to push too hard, use too much volume, and end up overdoing things to the point of exacerbating problems.

WOW, I am patting myself on the back for resisting the male female weights lifted rabbit hole. I had probably 3 paragraphs queued up in my head already on where to go with that comparison.

Yeah, I see what you're saying about the gear/joint issues and agree. I guess I was just generalizing about the cluster of things being age/gear/etc. On the same hand, I guess, you brought up a comparable angle with the foam rolling thing. I could have easily substituted "gear" with unless you are "foam rolling" or any other number of factors to enhance recovery. My point just being that you have to recover and high frequency and volume takes a toll on recovery and as we get older it is harder without other aids being all in line. I was also generalizing that gear can kind of make you "younger"....TRT benefits and all. But, it also places more work on the body as you pointed out.

As far as the female debate - again, I'm not saying things hard and fast, it is just an example.

And as far as 3 paragraphs...you and I are going to get arthritis in our hands from all this typing we do. 38 and between this board, research and my actual day job...my fingers are tired and I'm starting to worry about it haha.

HIT4ME Thank you for you input, and it is timed perfectly, this morning I did 5 set of 10 on the smith machine started at 95lbs and added 10lbs every set. I think in 2 weeks I will do the same just start at 105lbs. Something different ????

If it works, I like it. Just focus on form and kind of getting into a motion that doesn't hurt. I would just focus on getting a motion you are happy with first, then start adding weight. It's easy to rush it but there is no need. You won't impress anyone if you rush it and can't squat again and hobble around in the gym. And if it starts hurting again, back off a couple steps and work on the form some more. Of course I'm not talking about working pain from effort, I'm talking about actual pain from something not being right. I know you know this, but MrKleen73 will drive a truck through any holes I leave if I am not precise

The bottom line is that life is about movement. You are doing these squats first so that you can have functional movement and improve that movement. It isn't about how much you lift at all, weight is just a measure of the stimulus required for improvement. Once I started doing squats like this and taking it slow, it went from being an exercise where I had lots of low back pain when I did them and I hated doing the exercise, to something that actually kind of felt good and fluid, even if I was using vein popping effort and huffing for breath. I think that's more important than saying I can half squat with 500 pounds on my back.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, I see what you're saying about the gear/joint issues and agree. I guess I was just generalizing about the cluster of things being age/gear/etc. On the same hand, I guess, you brought up a comparable angle with the foam rolling thing. I could have easily substituted "gear" with unless you are "foam rolling" or any other number of factors to enhance recovery. My point just being that you have to recover and high frequency and volume takes a toll on recovery and as we get older it is harder without other aids being all in line. I was also generalizing that gear can kind of make you "younger"....TRT benefits and all. But, it also places more work on the body as you pointed out.

As far as the female debate - again, I'm not saying things hard and fast, it is just an example.

And as far as 3 paragraphs...you and I are going to get arthritis in our hands from all this typing we do. 38 and between this board, research and my actual day job...my fingers are tired and I'm starting to worry about it haha.



If it works, I like it. Just focus on form and kind of getting into a motion that doesn't hurt. I would just focus on getting a motion you are happy with first, then start adding weight. It's easy to rush it but there is no need. You won't impress anyone if you rush it and can't squat again and hobble around in the gym. And if it starts hurting again, back off a couple steps and work on the form some more. Of course I'm not talking about working pain from effort, I'm talking about actual pain from something not being right. I know you know this, but MrKleen73 will drive a truck through any holes I leave if I am not precise

The bottom line is that life is about movement. You are doing these squats first so that you can have functional movement and improve that movement. It isn't about how much you lift at all, weight is just a measure of the stimulus required for improvement. Once I started doing squats like this and taking it slow, it went from being an exercise where I had lots of low back pain when I did them and I hated doing the exercise, to something that actually kind of felt good and fluid, even if I was using vein popping effort and huffing for breath. I think that's more important than saying I can half squat with 500 pounds on my back.

The bolded is so hilariously awesome! Should be in your signature! LMAO!

I am a natural born trouble shooter, and my line of thought is more or less a series of circles that head in the direction the usual straight line of thought would go but circle around the line like coils of a spring to see all the angles along the way. I don't know that I have the ability to be cut and dry about some stuff. Holes and other possibilities jump out at me like crazy. If I see other options to something that seems to be said as an absolute and don't mention it, it is like getting a purple nurple to me. OUCH!!!

 

[SFreed]

As a current old guy (54) with knee issues due to osteoarthritis, I can attest to the heavy weight azz to the grass squat. The fact is that I make my money on my feet, not lifting weights. Could I squat heavier than I currently am? Probably. If I blow my knees out and can't work, what happens??

I think the biggest hurdle as you get older is accepting the fact that you're not 35. Or even 45. Do what you can. Push yourself to a certain extent. But I still gotta earn a living. And it ain't in the gym or on Utube.
YMMV

 

[DemntedCowboy]

As a current old guy (54) with knee issues due to osteoarthritis, I can attest to the heavy weight azz to the grass squat. The fact is that I make my money on my feet, not lifting weights. Could I squat heavier than I currently am? Probably. If I blow my knees out and can't work, what happens??

I think the biggest hurdle as you get older is accepting the fact that you're not 35. Or even 45. Do what you can. Push yourself to a certain extent. But I still gotta earn a living. And it ain't in the gym or on Utube.
YMMV

I'm only 37, 38 this year. But with the injuries I have incurred. The only thing I have learned is A$$ to Grass is not possible. No cartilage in my knees, I go as far as my butt can sit on a bench or 90 degrees.

 

[HIT4ME]

The bolded is so hilariously awesome! Should be in your signature! LMAO!

I am a natural born trouble shooter, and my line of thought is more or less a series of circles that head in the direction the usual straight line of thought would go but circle around the line like coils of a spring to see all the angles along the way. I don't know that I have the ability to be cut and dry about some stuff. Holes and other possibilities jump out at me like crazy. If I see other options to something that seems to be said as an absolute and don't mention it, it is like getting a purple nurple to me. OUCH!!!

Haha, I am actually the same way. I argue things in my head against myself. I may believe something today and you ask me tomorrow and I will say the opposite...because I argue ideas in my head back and forth, back and forth. We can never really be sure of anything, we just have to know probabilities. On here a lot I am just talking conversationally and I may come across as being absolute but I am not exactly. I do also try to bring things to their logical conclusions in my analogies, because if logic doesn't hold up at the extreme, it isn't really complete.

As a current old guy (54) with knee issues due to osteoarthritis, I can attest to the heavy weight azz to the grass squat. The fact is that I make my money on my feet, not lifting weights. Could I squat heavier than I currently am? Probably. If I blow my knees out and can't work, what happens??

I think the biggest hurdle as you get older is accepting the fact that you're not 35. Or even 45. Do what you can. Push yourself to a certain extent. But I still gotta earn a living. And it ain't in the gym or on Utube.
YMMV

Pffft, you are old. What do you know? Oh yeah, memes.

 

[SFreed]

Pffft, you are old. What do you know? Oh yeah, memes.

Hey!! It's been established that I am a funny mother fcker. Stop horning in on my action!

 

[HIT4ME]

Hey!! It's been established that I am a funny mother fcker. Stop horning in on my action!

Looks aren't everything.

 

[SFreed]

Looks aren't everything.

(At my age, looks aren't anything)

 

[HIT4ME]

(At my age, looks aren't anything)

We have established that your mom thinks you are special.

 

[Rocket3015]

Too Funny

 

[MrKleen73]

We have established that your mom thinks you are special.

LMAO! Someone was on a roll!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Short RL story:

I need blood labs. You get here almost all prescription drugs without prescription -but no lab test. I asked my wife to make a doc appointment for me.
Today was the day. Turns out my wife made mistakenly an appointment with an cardiologist. I was happy it wasn't a proctologist -but it would be difficult to explain to the cardiologist that I need a prescription for a full hormone panel.
I told him straight away that I'm on roids and needed a full lab test to get my AI dialed in. To my amazement he had no problems in prescribing it -but told me: "I prescribe you the full test -but also an EKG and Echocardiogram, to see if your heart got enlarged from roids. By the way, what advise could you give me for my son? He is a hard gainer in the gym." My advise was: "Sh1tload of roids." (Nah, I'm kidding!)
Well, that went better than expected.

Will post test results here and in the "bloods-thread" when ready.

 

[HIT4ME]

Short RL story:

I need blood labs. You get here almost all prescription drugs without prescription -but no lab test. I asked my wife to make a doc appointment for me.
Today was the day. Turns out my wife made mistakenly an appointment with an cardiologist. I was happy it wasn't a proctologist -but it would be difficult to explain to the cardiologist that I need a prescription for a full hormone panel.
I told him straight away that I'm on roids and needed a full lab test to get my AI dialed in. To my amazement he had no problems in prescribing it -but told me: "I prescribe you the full test -but also an EKG and Echocardiogram, to see if your heart got enlarged from roids. By the way, what advise could you give me for my son? He is a hard gainer in the gym." My advise was: "Sh1tload of roids." (Nah, I'm kidding!)
Well, that went better than expected.

Will post test results here and in the "bloods-thread" when ready.

Good luck man. Maybe you have a smart wife and her mistake was....um....not a mistake.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Gym

DB flat bench, 3 sec lowering
2x65lbs x12/12/14

Deadlift AMRAP
225lbs x10
315lbs x5/5

BB bent over row
225lbs x10/8

One armed chest press machine
130lbs x11/10

Smith Squats, double dipping on bottom (no better way explaining it)
135lbs x 10/8/8
Like this but with weights:
[video=youtube;r9YPppeosVw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YPppeosVw[/video]

Leg extensions
125lbs partials 21's x3

Calf rises
3 sets

ABS crunches x 3 sets

Kept it short -but effective. Tomorrow focus on shoulders and more volume.

 

[Rocket3015]

Cool Doctor !!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Echocardiogram results:

Well, it gets interesting. 3 years ago I had an echocardiogram, diagnosis: left ventricular hypertrophy due to hypertension.
Today: left ventricular hypertrophy - GONE

Thanks to lifting and Telmisartan.

Overall, heart is a bit enlarged, the doc asked about weightlifting and said it's normal for lifters, BUT, he stressed that I need to do more cardio.
Asked him : "Do I have time to finish reading a book- or must I buy short stories from now on?" He said: "Go for Harry Potter, the whole series." LOL

 

[HIT4ME]

Echocardiogram results:

Well, it gets interesting. 3 years ago I had an echocardiogram, diagnosis: left ventricular hypertrophy due to hypertension.
Today: left ventricular hypertrophy - GONE

Thanks to lifting and Telmisartan.

Overall, heart is a bit enlarged, the doc asked about weightlifting and said it's normal for lifters, BUT, he stressed that I need to do more cardio.
Asked him : "Do I have time to finish reading a book- or must I buy short stories from now on?" He said: "Go for Harry Potter, the whole series." LOL

Good to hear it is still OK for you to buy unripe bananas!

 

[Studhorse]

Echocardiogram results:

Well, it gets interesting. 3 years ago I had an echocardiogram, diagnosis: left ventricular hypertrophy due to hypertension.
Today: left ventricular hypertrophy - GONE

Thanks to lifting and Telmisartan.

Overall, heart is a bit enlarged, the doc asked about weightlifting and said it's normal for lifters, BUT, he stressed that I need to do more cardio.
Asked him : "Do I have time to finish reading a book- or must I buy short stories from now on?" He said: "Go for Harry Potter, the whole series." LOL

Echocardiogram results = GREAT!
Do more cardio = not so great!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Echocardiogram results = GREAT!
Do more cardio = not so great!

Hehehe! But I will do. Water Gym and sparring. Starts next week.

 

[Rocket3015]

Glad you got good news!!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Today was a BBQ with friends, no gym. Party, because my supposed heart condition returned to normal. It was a blast!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Glad you got good news!!

Yes! How many people do you know with a heart condition who "miraculously" got healed?
Hehehehe!
And I did not follow doctors advise, like taking a sh1tload of beta blockers and whatnot.
Reason to throw a party!

Rethinking all I did, I may give credit to Epithalon and TB 500 too.

 

[kenpoengineer]

That is simply amazing. Glad to hear your heart is healed. My father used to say “Doctor, heal thyself!”

 

[u_e_s_i]

Echocardiogram results:

Well, it gets interesting. 3 years ago I had an echocardiogram, diagnosis: left ventricular hypertrophy due to hypertension.
Today: left ventricular hypertrophy - GONE

Thanks to lifting and Telmisartan.

Overall, heart is a bit enlarged, the doc asked about weightlifting and said it's normal for lifters, BUT, he stressed that I need to do more cardio.
Asked him : "Do I have time to finish reading a book- or must I buy short stories from now on?" He said: "Go for Harry Potter, the whole series." LOL

Congratulations!
Did you hop off AAS or PHs at some point in the last three years? Have you been less stressed? How has your supplementation changed? Have you started consuming more antioxidants?

 

[HIT4ME]

Just a word of caution - I would still tread with caution on a heart condition. There are many many cases of people having heart conditions in one exam and not another. Look up Reggie Lewis of the Boston Celtics. Guy was told never to play basketball again after he collapsed on the court, got a second opinion that cleared him and died playing a pickup game. Truly tragic.

Just keep doing what you are doing, I agree with celebrations! But have some caution

 

[hairygrandpa]

Congratulations!
Did you hop off AAS or PHs at some point in the last three years? Have you been less stressed? How has your supplementation changed? Have you started consuming more antioxidants?

3 years ago I was a fat swine who did not moved a muscle in 10+ years. That's when I got my first heart study. I had panic attacks that were mistaken for heart problems. I was literally dieying. BP 180/120, triglycerides 750, BF 45%+. I got myself to a private sanatorium were I lost 30lbs under medical supervision, after that I started lifting weights and going head first into cycles (I'm an idiot). Figured out that since I took testosterone, my panic attacks were gone.
I did a sh1tload of different cycles. The first 1.5 years I did PCT, the last 1.5 years I'm always on, cruising and blasting. I generally take few supplements. Currently Saw Palmetto, Fishoil and acetyl-l-carnitine. Tudca only after alcohol (up to 2gr.). Before that I injected Peptides for several injuries.
Stress level the same. I'm not riding the "antioxidant train". After thoroughly researching, I don't believe they do any good, same for multivitamins. I eat fruits and veggies to fulfill my needs.

What contributed the most to my heart problem reversal was a change of lifestyle, with lifting and clean diet AND -Telmisartan, a drug that is known to be able to reverse the condition, besides enhancing lipolysis and insulin sensitivity.

Just a word of caution - I would still tread with caution on a heart condition. There are many many cases of people having heart conditions in one exam and not another. Look up Reggie Lewis of the Boston Celtics. Guy was told never to play basketball again after he collapsed on the court, got a second opinion that cleared him and died playing a pickup game. Truly tragic.

Just keep doing what you are doing, I agree with celebrations! But have some caution

Will watch it closely, even though I saw the measurements live on the computer screen, both times.

 

[SFreed]

Isn't it amazing what a little exercise and healthy diet will do? So many people are hell bent on an early grave.

 

[HIT4ME]

3 years ago I was a fat swine who did not moved a muscle in 10+ years. That's when I got my first heart study. I had panic attacks that were mistaken for heart problems. I was literally dieying. BP 180/120, triglycerides 750, BF 45%+. I got myself to a private sanatorium were I lost 30lbs under medical supervision, after that I started lifting weights and going head first into cycles (I'm an idiot). Figured out that since I took testosterone, my panic attacks were gone.
I did a sh1tload of different cycles. The first 1.5 years I did PCT, the last 1.5 years I'm always on, cruising and blasting. I generally take few supplements. Currently Saw Palmetto, Fishoil and acetyl-l-carnitine. Tudca only after alcohol (up to 2gr.). Before that I injected Peptides for several injuries.
Stress level the same. I'm not riding the "antioxidant train". After thoroughly researching, I don't believe they do any good, same for multivitamins. I eat fruits and veggies to fulfill my needs.

What contributed the most to my heart problem reversal was a change of lifestyle, with lifting and clean diet AND -Telmisartan, a drug that is known to be able to reverse the condition, besides enhancing lipolysis and insulin sensitivity.



Will watch it closely, even though I saw the measurements live on the computer screen, both times.

The hairygrandpa we know today is not who he used to be and not even the same guy we first met. I want to point out that it wasn't drugs and all the experimenting HGP did here - search through his logs on here. It's an incredible body of work JUST with what he has logged on here. The work before he even got here already was a tremendous leap.

Hairygrandpa - if I were you, given your history, I would take TUDCA on the regular. Research some of what they're finding about TUDCA and ER Stress. It is an incredible molecule. Too bad it's so expensive for a supplement.

Isn't it amazing what a little exercise and healthy diet will do? So many people are hell bent on an early grave.

Yeah, it's amazing how much dedication we have to being lazy. I see so many people going through so much planning and pain just to avoid a relatively small amount of effort. It is amazing how we can flip-flop things and suddenly picking up 100 pounds becomes more painful than not being able to get ourselves off a couch.

 

[Rocket3015]

Hard Work for the Win !!

 

[christ83189]

Subbed

 

[hairygrandpa]

This week I got only time (its a lie, I was lazy) for 2 gym days. Today was "double effort day" to make up for my laziness.
hehehe, watch this:

Circuit: elevated push ups, chin ups, bent over low pulley cable 20lbs/ no pauses between exercises
push:30
pull:14
pulley:14
push:30
pull:12
pulley:12
push:25
pull:9+2
pulley:10
push:23+4
pull:8+2
pulley:10

Smith squats triple dipping
135lbs x10/8 ---> almost blacked out, pause 5 min / 10

Seated row narrow grip
265lbs x12/9+1

DB Kroc rows
110lbs x11/8

DB shrugs 2x 110lbs /SS/ Smith drag curls (135lbs)
shrug 17
curl: 11
shrug: 14
curl: 7 (?)
shrug: 15
curl: 9

One armed standing landmine press (90lbs in plates)
8/9/6

Incline press machine:
115kg x11 255lbs
165kg x2 365lbs
135kg x5 300lbs

BB close grip bench press
135lbs x20
200lbs x12/11/12

V handle triceps push downs cable, different angles, weights and tempos
10 sets

BB straight bar curls
110lbs 6/7 ----form suffering
90lbs x9/8

cable face pulls
2 sets

reverse pec deck
175lbs x10/10/8

One armed kettle bell lateral raising, never to zero
20lbs x11/9/10
---Toast---

 

[Studhorse]

This week I got only time (its a lie, I was lazy) for 2 gym days. Today was "double effort day" to make up for my laziness.
hehehe, watch this:

Circuit: elevated push ups, chin ups, bent over low pulley cable 20lbs/ no pauses between exercises
push:30
pull:14
pulley:14
push:30
pull:12
pulley:12
push:25
pull:9+2
pulley:10
push:23+4
pull:8+2
pulley:10

Smith squats triple dipping
135lbs x10/8 ---> almost blacked out, pause 5 min / 10

Seated row narrow grip
265lbs x12/9+1

DB Kroc rows
110lbs x11/8

DB shrugs 2x 110lbs /SS/ Smith drag curls (135lbs)
shrug 17
curl: 11
shrug: 14
curl: 7 (?)
shrug: 15
curl: 9

One armed standing landmine press (90lbs in plates)
8/9/6

Incline press machine:
115kg x11 255lbs
165kg x2 365lbs
135kg x5 300lbs

BB close grip bench press
135lbs x20
200lbs x12/11/12

V handle triceps push downs cable, different angles, weights and tempos
10 sets

BB straight bar curls
110lbs 6/7 ----form suffering
90lbs x9/8

cable face pulls
2 sets

reverse pec deck
175lbs x10/10/8

One armed kettle bell lateral raising, never to zero
20lbs x11/9/10
---Toast---

Now that's a workout brother!

 

[christ83189]

This week I got only time (its a lie, I was lazy) for 2 gym days. Today was "double effort day" to make up for my laziness.
hehehe, watch this:

Circuit: elevated push ups, chin ups, bent over low pulley cable 20lbs/ no pauses between exercises
push:30
pull:14
pulley:14
push:30
pull:12
pulley:12
push:25
pull:9+2
pulley:10
push:23+4
pull:8+2
pulley:10

Smith squats triple dipping
135lbs x10/8 ---> almost blacked out, pause 5 min / 10

Seated row narrow grip
265lbs x12/9+1

DB Kroc rows
110lbs x11/8

DB shrugs 2x 110lbs /SS/ Smith drag curls (135lbs)
shrug 17
curl: 11
shrug: 14
curl: 7 (?)
shrug: 15
curl: 9

One armed standing landmine press (90lbs in plates)
8/9/6

Incline press machine:
115kg x11 255lbs
165kg x2 365lbs
135kg x5 300lbs

BB close grip bench press
135lbs x20
200lbs x12/11/12

V handle triceps push downs cable, different angles, weights and tempos
10 sets

BB straight bar curls
110lbs 6/7 ----form suffering
90lbs x9/8

cable face pulls
2 sets

reverse pec deck
175lbs x10/10/8

One armed kettle bell lateral raising, never to zero
20lbs x11/9/10
---Toast---

Holy crap. Nice one lol

 

[HIT4ME]

This week I got only time (its a lie, I was lazy) for 2 gym days. Today was "double effort day" to make up for my laziness.
hehehe, watch this:

Circuit: elevated push ups, chin ups, bent over low pulley cable 20lbs/ no pauses between exercises
push:30
pull:14
pulley:14
push:30
pull:12
pulley:12
push:25
pull:9+2
pulley:10
push:23+4
pull:8+2
pulley:10

Smith squats triple dipping
135lbs x10/8 ---> almost blacked out, pause 5 min / 10

Seated row narrow grip
265lbs x12/9+1

DB Kroc rows
110lbs x11/8

DB shrugs 2x 110lbs /SS/ Smith drag curls (135lbs)
shrug 17
curl: 11
shrug: 14
curl: 7 (?)
shrug: 15
curl: 9

One armed standing landmine press (90lbs in plates)
8/9/6

Incline press machine:
115kg x11 255lbs
165kg x2 365lbs
135kg x5 300lbs

BB close grip bench press
135lbs x20
200lbs x12/11/12

V handle triceps push downs cable, different angles, weights and tempos
10 sets

BB straight bar curls
110lbs 6/7 ----form suffering
90lbs x9/8

cable face pulls
2 sets

reverse pec deck
175lbs x10/10/8

One armed kettle bell lateral raising, never to zero
20lbs x11/9/10
---Toast---

Not sure what I think about that double dip motion. In my head it seems like it is a decent way to increase intensity...but it also seems like that movement at the bottom of a squat is a little risky..

Awesome workout though my man!

 

[Rocket3015]

Working out like a Mad Man !!

 

[MrKleen73]

Not sure what I think about that double dip motion. In my head it seems like it is a decent way to increase intensity...but it also seems like that movement at the bottom of a squat is a little risky..

Awesome workout though my man!

Depends on where he is doing it and if he keeps his tightness. I would definitely stay away from intentionally creating and working through fatigue in any area that is injury prone. However if he is in a position that his knees feel healthy doing that then it shouldn't be a problem assuming he does not push it too far... Almost blacking out... maybe a bit far if he wants to avoid hurting the knees but HGP loves to push things too!